Ground Ownership in the eircom League

[Peadar]

Ok boys and tomboys, I want to know what clubs in the eircom League actually own their ground.
I want fact, not opinion.

I'll start off by listing clubs who certainly do not;

Cork City FC
Derry City FC
Waterford United
Shamrock Rovers
Shelbourne FC
Drogheda United
UCD
Bray Wanderers
Kildare County
Galway United
Dundalk

[pineapple stu]

We don't, though the college do.

[chippie0001]

We own Dalymount lock stock and barrel. That one is a fact. Oh yeah apart from the bits we are selling off to pay the players wages. :rolleyes:

[Vitruvian Man]

As mentioned on a previous thread.

Bohemian FC = 100% owners of Dalymount Park

[Roo69]

We do not own the Carlisle Grounds - 45 year lease agreement, about 5 years into it

[Peadar]

Oh yeah apart from the bits we are selling off to pay the players wages. :rolleyes:

Some people might be interested in knowing a bit more about that if you'd care to elaborate?
A famous old ground with some of my oldest and dearest football memories. Would hate to see it disappear.

[dapman1]

Newbridge Town FC own Station Road. So we dont own ours either. :(

[chippie0001]

We sold part of the tramway end a few years back to raise funds to build the Jodi. I voted against that but at least the funds plas grants got us a brand new stand.

Now we have sold a bit more of it for a large sum which will be used to pay debts incurred in having the team we have had for the past few years. Actually we have got a good bit of it already and was used to pay weekly wages. The sum involved would probably have got us a new stand with grants if used right. Whats worse is no one in the club really knows what we are losing at that end and what the small stand at the end will definately hold.

[Slash/ED]

So what's the plan there now, are the shopping centre still building a 1,500 or so seater stand where the tramway terrace now is? And if so, when?

[wws]

We sold part of the tramway end a few years back to raise funds to build the Jodi. I voted against that but at least the funds plas grants got us a brand new stand.

Now we have sold a bit more of it for a large sum which will be used to pay debts incurred in having the team we have had for the past few years. Actually we have got a good bit of it already and was used to pay weekly wages. The sum involved would probably have got us a new stand with grants if used right. Whats worse is no one in the club really knows what we are losing at that end and what the small stand at the end will definately hold.



and these are the guys who dealt with the foley contract :eek:

no wonder

[sligoman]

I want to know what clubs in the eircom League actually own their ground.Sligo Rovers F.C. ;)

[Bald Student]

I understand that UCD soccer club is not a legal entity. All contracts including land ownership are with the college propper.

[The Stars]

Sligo Rovers F.C. ;)
Ya we defenitly own The Showgrounds.

[bigmac]

I understand that UCD soccer club is not a legal entity. All contracts including land ownership are with the college propper.

UCD is a club in the same way as other clubs and societies in UCD exist. They are bound by college regulations in how they go about their business. to be honest, it wouldn't be a bad thing if every club had this sort of oversight, whereby proper budgets and accounts have to be presented before any money is forthcoming.
As far as I know (basing this on my experience in the athletics club) all contracts and scholarships would be with the college itself. The land is obviously then owned by the college, without any formal agreement as to usage.
Open to corrections from college people if i'm wrong here.

[Krstic]

Who are the owners of Turners Cross and what ever became of Flower Lodge?

[sullanefc]

Who are the owners of Turners Cross and what ever became of Flower Lodge?

Turners Cross is owned by the Munster Football Association and Flower Lodge was sold to the GAA ages ago and is now known as Pairc Ui Rinn - named after legendary hurler Christy Ring. It's used for low key league games for Cork instead of using Pairc Ui Cuiomh.

[Peadar]

Flower Lodge was sold to the GAA ages ago and is now known as Pairc Ui Rinn


They bought it with the money they made from the Michael Jackson concert in Pairc Ui Caoimh in 1985.

Incidently, owning the ground in Bishopstown was nearly the death of Cork City FC. :(


*EDIT* The year, of course, was 1985.

[sullanefc]

They bought it with the money they made from the Michael Jackson concert in Pairc Ui Caoimh in 1995.

Really? I did not know that. And my mum went to that concert and hence contributed to that :(




Incidently, owning the ground in Bishopstown was nearly the death of Cork City FC. :(

I was renting a house from the guy who was in charge of City at the time. O'Donovan, can't remember his first name. Bit of a slimeball, with greased back hair and drives a big merc. He owns a lot of property around the city.

[Peadar]

Ya we defenitly own The Showgrounds.

I'm not sure that Sligo Rovers FC could turn around tomorrow and sell the Showgrounds if they wanted to. There's got to be some Council involvement?

[anto eile]

As mentioned on a previous thread.

Bohemian FC = 100% owners of Dalymount Park

which is collateral for your huge debts i believe?

[anto eile]

I'm not sure that Sligo Rovers FC could turn around tomorrow and sell the Showgrounds if they wanted to. There's got to be some Council involvement?
isnt it owned by a trust?

finn harps is owned in a trust for harps, and the trust have agreed to sell finn park, to build a new ground
so basically harps own their own ground too

[Mr A]

Finn Park is owned by the Finn Harps Trustees- a separate body, and they will own the new ground as well when it's built. This set-up is complicated and has slowed down the move, but it means we can't ever lose the ground, while hopefully still being able to benefit from its value to build the new stadium when we move across the river.

So that's a sort of no then. Ish.

[The Stars]

I'm not sure that Sligo Rovers FC could turn around tomorrow and sell the Showgrounds if they wanted to. There's got to be some Council involvement?
Thats the thing.The Showgrounds can never be sold and will be home to Sligo Rovers forever.

[garykelly]

Thats the thing.The Showgrounds can never be sold and will be home to Sligo Rovers forever.

Spot on, The Showgrounds can never be sold. The development of the showgrounds is overseen by a committee,who hold the ground in trust, that was established many many years ago. They are supposed to liaise with the development committee at the club to approve developments being undertaken. Although this hasnt happended in something like 20 years or so.

In effect Sligo Rovers own their ground. It cant be sold by anybody and will remain forever. This was a wonderful piece of foresight by the people at the club all those years ago. It's similar to the way finn harps have finn park.

[WeAreRovers]

It goes without saying that we don't own our ground and never will but the deal we have with SDCC is every bit as good if not better - at least now no Kilcoyne type can sell the ground from under us.

Fair play to Harps and Sligo for doing the smart thing re their grounds. It's something other clubs should be looking at especially Bohs who may come to regret that they haven't.

KOH

[Peadar]

In effect Sligo Rovers own their ground.

I'm certain that Sligo Rovers FC don't own the ground.
In the sense that it's listed in the clubs assets.
I know this sounds like nit picking but we've got to establish the facts here.

We've had no one on from SPA.
I don't remember them owning Richmond?

What about Athlone? Kilkenny? Limerick? Monaghan? Longford? Cobh? etc.

[Schumi]

Limerick don't I'm pretty sure. They only moved there this year and I doubt they bought it. I have a feeling that Pats own some percentage of Richmond but I'm not sure.

[Wiseguy]

We own Flancare Park

[Conor H]

....Is owned by the Galway F.A.Although it is practically GUFC's with all the crests etc around the ground.

[BohsFans]

So what's the plan there now, are the shopping centre still building a 1,500 or so seater stand where the tramway terrace now is? And if so, when?

Expecting a discision from An Bord Planala early next month on the appeal of the planner and local residents to the scale of the project.
If it goes ahead, I understand our stand will be built first.

[eamoss]

Casey family own Oriel Park Dundalk have it on 100 year lease agreement.

[chippie0001]

which is collateral for your huge debts i believe?

No it is not held as collateral anywhere, only banks do that and we owe the banks nothing. However some of our board use it as collateral in their heards for the incompatance they have delivered on us.

[chippie0001]

It goes without saying that we don't own our ground and never will but the deal we have with SDCC is every bit as good if not better - at least now no Kilcoyne type can sell the ground from under us.

Fair play to Harps and Sligo for doing the smart thing re their grounds. It's something other clubs should be looking at especially Bohs who may come to regret that they haven't.

KOH

It was muted years back and again. I doubt the board favour it too much you cannot be done for negligent trading when you have an asset worth over €10m in your back pocket. Take that away and oh boy can you.

[1 9 2 8]

Another thing about The Showgrounds it was leased until 1968 when it was then purchased for Sligo Rovers by a trust foundation representing the share holders of Rovers. Under the terms of the purchase The Showgrounds can never be mortgaged, sold or used for any commercial purposes other than sport and leisure.

[Lim till i die]

Apparetly, we own our ground, but you'd have to take it up with the chairman :o

[Macy]

The whole point of a trust owning a ground is so the club doesn't. I actually think it's a positive thing that the ground can't be sold from under the club by whoever owns the club (or be forced to sell due to liquidation or similar). However, the point of the thread was clubs that own their ground - Sligo and Harps clearly don't.

[Peadar]

I actually think it's a positive thing that the ground can't be sold from under the club by whoever owns the club (or be forced to sell due to liquidation or similar).


Don't get me wrong, Macy, I think it's a good idea too but thought it would be interesting and educational if we could show exactly who owned what.

[Macy]

Don't get me wrong, Macy, I think it's a good idea too but thought it would be interesting and educational if we could show exactly who owned what.
I agree - just pointing out that if a trust owns a ground, then the club don't, whatever Sligo fans might say :cool:

[Peadar]

just pointing out that if a trust owns a ground, then the club don't, whatever Sligo fans might say :cool:

Sure I've been trying to tell them that for ages. :cool:

[Partizan]

Just to clarify our precarious position:

The only thing we own out in the RSC are the floodlights (from the Sky money), the gear and the footballs.

Waterford City Council own the Regional Sports Centre. In recent years WUFC have tried to take out a lease on the ground but it has faced opposition from the athletics crowd and the Council itself who regard it as an amenity for the people of Waterford.

We have also tried to gain the assistance of the FAI and the government in securing for us a green field site but the FAI insist that we stay in the RSC, so we are stuck with the javelin and hammer divits on the pitch.

Recently the FAI gave the RSC a grant worth 600k but that was only on the plans that Waterford City Council submitted to them so in all likely not once cent of that will be spent on the soccer ground but in another part of the complex itself or perhaps on replacing the athletics track.

So there you go folks, we cant go back to Kilcohan because the doggy crowd wont leave us near the place and we are stuck in the RSC because a) we've no money, b) if we ever moved out or God forbid go broke, the RSC would be one big white elephant & c) John Delaney ex member of the WUFC Board of Directors killed off the plans we had with WIT to co-own & develop a green field site. :(

[Schumi]

Recently the FAI gave the RSC a grant worth 600k but that was only on the plans that Waterford City Council submitted to them so in all likely not once cent of that will be spent on the soccer ground but in another part of the complex itself or perhaps on replacing the athletics track.
That sounds a bit dodgy. How would the FAI be paying for non-football bits to be built?

[trevy]

I think Partizan is showing his suspicion of the city council there which isn't surprising as nothing has been done to improve the ground by them for years.Even basic things like the toilets need improving.However I couldn't see the FAI letting money to improve the ground being spent on something else.

[bigmac]

That sounds a bit dodgy. How would the FAI be paying for non-football bits to be built?

I think he means toilets and facilities like that as distinct from any work on the pitch.

[Partizan]

It wouldnt surprise me Trevy if the Council squandered the money on the jacks and the turnstiles and claim it cost €500,000 and used whatever left over to erect some stupid bloody statue on the Quay that no one really wants.

[garykelly]

[QUOTE=Peadar]I'm certain that Sligo Rovers FC don't own the ground.
In the sense that it's listed in the clubs assets.
I know this sounds like nit picking but we've got to establish the facts here.

/QUOTE]

Sligo rovers own the ground under conditions layed out by the trust who secured the ground for the club. Think of it as being much the same as being left land or a house, with a stipulation that it couldnt be sold. Now you'd still own the land or house. The way in which rovers have done it ensure that the ground will always remain. being defined in club assets is not the sole barometer of ownership in this case. I know it's a bit different but we do own the ground. and that is factual.

[sligoman]

You tell him Gary ;) , cos poor aul Peader doesn't seem to be listening:mad: :D.

[ColinR]

Sligo rovers own the ground under conditions layed out by the trust who secured the ground for the club. Think of it as being much the same as being left land or a house, with a stipulation that it couldnt be sold. Now you'd still own the land or house. The way in which rovers have done it ensure that the ground will always remain. being defined in club assets is not the sole barometer of ownership in this case. I know it's a bit different but we do own the ground. and that is factual.


so can the board of sligo rovers decide that they are going to sell the ground, and then keep hold of the proceeds.?

if yes, then it appears they do own it, if they have to get approval from a trustee etc., then no they dont own it no matter what sligo rovers fans think ;)

obviously, sligo rovers have 'complete control' of the ground, but drogs have 'complete control' of united park, but we don't own it.

[bigmac]

so can the board of sligo rovers decide that they are going to sell the ground, and then keep hold of the proceeds.?

if yes, then it appears they do own it, if they have to get approval from a trustee etc., then no they dont own it no matter what sligo rovers fans think ;)


Not true. You can own a house but if you're married then you can't sell the house without a declaration from your wife that it's not the family home. Does that mean you don't own your house? Of course not.

On another point, I think it's a good thing that a club can't sell its ground off that easily. Prevents a takeover just so someone can get their hands on the land.

[anto eile]

No it is not held as collateral anywhere, only banks do that and we owe the banks nothing. However some of our board use it as collateral in their heards for the incompatance they have delivered on us.

so what did the bank look for as a guarantee for your E1.8M of debts ?

[dublinred]

so can the board of sligo rovers decide that they are going to sell the ground, and then keep hold of the proceeds.?

if yes, then it appears they do own it, if they have to get approval from a trustee etc., then no they dont own it no matter what sligo rovers fans think ;)

obviously, sligo rovers have 'complete control' of the ground, but drogs have 'complete control' of united park, but we don't own it.

Who cares we have one of the biggests ground in Europe circa 12 acres and don't pay a penny rent for it , it can never be sold or mortgaged , if the sh1t hits the fan again the banks can't touch it , great foresight by the club in the sixties.