France V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 7th September 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

[JR89]

The Dutch have come out early with Koeman naming their provisional squad over the weekend and we'll have to wait another week for Frances squad with Deschamps set to name it next Thursday. Probably when ours will be named too after the midweek EFL cup fixtures.

Netherlands provisional squad:

Bijlow (Feyenoord), Noppert (Heerenveen), Flekken (Brentford), Verbruggen (Brighton)

Blind (Girona), Van Dijk (Liverpool), Dumfries, de Vrij (Inter Milan), de Ligt (Bayern Munich), Ake (Manchester City), Geertruida, Hartman (Feyenoord), Botman (Newcastle United), van de Ven (Tottenham), Maatsen (Chelsea)

de Jong (Barcelona), de Roon, Koopmeiners (Atalanta), Simons (RB Leipzig), Wieffer (Feyenoord), Veerman (PSV), Reijnders (AC Milan)

Depay (Atletico Madrid), Bergwijn (Ajax), Malen (Borussia Dortmund), Gakpo (Liverpool), Lang (PSV), Weghorst (Hoffenheim), Brobbey (Ajax)

[tetsujin1979]

Ireland squad to be announced on Thursday at 12

[Razors left peg]

Aaron Connolly to replace Obafemi is prob the only big change I'd expect

[pineapple stu]

Ireland squad to be announced on Thursday at 12
Very late squad announcement isn't it? Given the France game is next Thursday. Don't recall the announcement being as late as a week before the games before, but maybe I've not been paying too close attention.

A few injuries for this one of course - Coleman, McClean, Obafemi, Smallbone, Johnston. Parrott I think had been injured and maybe the couple of minutes for Excelsior at the weekend isn't enough to bring him up to match fitness for two games like these.

Realistically we should be getting nothing from these two games, but we've generally managed to play up when required (sometimes even to the extent of getting a result) and it's the games against sides equal to or lower than us where we really struggle badly. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance of course, and you'd be brave to be going to the Parc des Princes confident of getting a result. We could conceivably lose both games next week and that'd leave us all but out of things with three games to go again.

Holland v Greece at the same time as the France game may give us a better indication of Holland's current standing - was the 4-0 against France a freak result or are they in turmoil again?

[tetsujin1979]

Is Kenny at any of the midweek games in England? I think I read he was at games over the weekend.
Might explain why the squad isn't being announced until Thursday

[JR89]

Hasn't the squad always been announced on the Thursday before players meet up. Like next window in October there won't be EFL cup games but you'll have midweek championship games. France squad isn't been announced until Thursday at 2pm I believe.

[JR89]

Doherty to miss the France game.

1696804210468438292

[pineapple stu]

Smallbone and McClean may make the squad though, per that article

Also New Zealand visiting for a friendly in November, four years since we last played them. Mad to look at the team that night - O'Hara; O'Connor, Long, Clark, Williams; Browne, Cullen, Brady, Byrne, Maguire, Parrott. Subs were Stevens, Egan, Whelan, Hogan, McClean, Robinson, Hendrick, Hourihane, Travers, O'Dowda, Judge and James Collins. A lot has happened since!

[elatedscum]

If I were guessing the squad:

1. Bazunu
2. Kelleher
3. Travers
4. Browne
5. Sykes
6. Duffy
7. Collins
8. O’Shea
9. Egan
10. Omobamidele
11. Manning
12. O’Dowda
13. Cullen
14. Molumby
15. Hendrick
16. Smallbone* (fitness question)
17. Knight
18. McGrath
19. Szmodzics
20. Robinson
21. Ogbene
22. Connolly
23. Ferguson
24. Idah
25. Keane

Could easily see the likes of Hendrick, McGrath, Szmodzics, Connolly, Robinson miss out.

Equally any of McClean, Hogan, Lenihan, Scales could easily make it.

I’d be pleasantly surprised if any of Jon Gallagher, Danny McNamara, Conor Coventry or Festy Ebosele were called up - but not ideal games for debutants. Just we have literally no natural RB/RWB available and a very sparse deep midfield

[JR89]

Doherty is only missing the France game so he's not gonna let him out and McClean returned midweek so he's gonna pick him now that he's fit to play. Think we'll see Enda Stevens return as well.

[tetsujin1979]

Squad announced, no Parrott, but Hendrick and McClean are included

1697222250036900181

[pineapple stu]

Duffy and Lenihan preferred as centre-back options to Omobamidele - not surprising really given he's glued to the bench and no sign of a move. Really disappointing last six months for him.

O'Dowda left out despite having started in Greece. OK, he didn't play particularly well in Greece, but to be left out of the squad entirely is a big step. Stevens back - I like seeing former UCD players in the squad, but still, that's a bit meh.

Have we ever called up a fourth tier player before? I remember a couple of years ago we were looking at Travers/Bazunu as the lowest-placed players ever to play for us when they were in a relegation dogfight in the third tier.

No place for Sykes either - is he fated to have about the shortest ever Ireland career? Five minutes against Malta (when he looked quite lively) and nothing since.

We seem to through a regular cycle here -

1) An Irish player under 24 has scored/played a nice pass/is linked with a non-English team - they must be world class potential!
2) The squad is named - Christ but it's crap
3) We end up either doing reasonably well (but not winning) against a top seed, or doing badly (and not winning) against a middle seed. The less said about the lower seeds the better...

[elatedscum]

Doherty is only missing the France game so he's not gonna let him out and McClean returned midweek so he's gonna pick him now that he's fit to play. Think we'll see Enda Stevens return as well.

Saw an article yesterday saying that Doherty had his ban extended to 2 games by UEFA. Obviously his inclusion seems to conflict with that

[tetsujin1979]

Kenny confirmed in the press conference that O'Dowda is injured. He had a scan which found a tear, and he's out for a few weeks.

[JR89]

Saw an article yesterday saying that Doherty had his ban extended to 2 games by UEFA. Obviously his inclusion seems to conflict with that

Technically was extended to two games. Gibraltar and France, probably just a **** way to explain it rather than say Doherty's ban has been extended by another game to include France.

[SkStu]

Call ups for Manning and Festy will please some.

[weldoninhio]

Thankfully after these two games we can get back on track with a proper manager.

[tetsujin1979]

French squad confirmed
1697222963622232227
Dear lord

[backstothewall]

Regardless of all he has done, calling a guy up from League 2 to face 2 the best sides in the world is just embarrassing. McClean simply should not be there.

[Crosby87]

Aaron Connolly???!!!
You have to laugh at this point.

[Eminence Grise]

Regardless of all he has done, calling a guy up from League 2 to face 2 the best sides in the world is just embarrassing. McClean simply should not be there.

This is the straw that breaks the camel’s back for me. I wanted Kenny to succeed because what fan doesn’t want a successful manager? But the slack cut for Covid and some bad luck hasn’t led to anything like the pretty modest standards we expect – competence, competitiveness, being able to play a bit. And calling up a fourth tier player in a continuation of blind loyalty is beyond the pale. It’s unnecessary and indefensible.

Crosby, Connolly, at least, is playing, and playing OK, two divisions higher and 11 or 12 years younger.

[Fixer82]

French squad confirmed
1697222963622232227
Dear lord

We’ll stuff ‘em!!

[CraftyToePoke]

And calling up a fourth tier player in a continuation of blind loyalty is beyond the pale. It’s unnecessary and indefensible

He called Manning back in, despite the guy having better plans the last time we gathered & O'Dowda is out injured. Doherty out. Coleman out.Someone has to fill the gaps unless we stick a scarecrow at LB / LWB v France and Holland. Am I missing anyone ?

[pineapple stu]

McNamara and Lyons I suppose, but I think they're both right-sided players, not left?

[CraftyToePoke]

McNamara and Lyons I suppose, but I think they're both right-sided players, not left?

Right sided mostly far as I know.
It's a disaster having to pick a D4 player on his way down, I'm not happy about it in case I'm misunderstood. But if it's a choice between a D4 player who you know exactly what you'll get from who's been in these type games before & seeing how a newbie gets on - in these two games & these circumstances, well I can see why he called it the way he did.

[JR89]

Lyons has actually been playing on the left this season for Blackpool and think he played a bit there last season. Played quite a bit on the left for Shamrock Rovers and might have featured there for the U21s.

[CraftyToePoke]

Lyons has actually been playing on the left this season for Blackpool and think he played a bit there last season. Played quite a bit on the left for Shamrock Rovers and might have featured there for the U21s.

Would you put him in this squad ?

[Eminence Grise]

Manning, meh, and Stevens, also meh – but crucially both play in McClean’s position and are playing two divisions higher. There’s a handful of other former internationals playing in League 2: no matter what crisis of cover in a position they’ve never been considered for a call-up, and with good reason – they’re not playing at the right level. I’m not saying they were ever as good as McClean at his best – but McClean isn’t as good as his best these days either.


Doherty and Coleman are both right-sided, so not an entirely like for like comparison. You can argue that both can play in McClean’s position, but that ignores the fact the McClean himself is a former winger who can play LWB, but never was one to begin with, much less a particularly good one, and his conversion to the role allowed Kenny keep him too long in the squad.


Good managers make brave decisions. A tactical tweak. A fresh call-up. Calling up McClean is poor management. The devil you know isn't always the best option That’s my tuppence worth.

[Trequartista20]

He called Manning back in, despite the guy having better plans the last time we gathered & O'Dowda is out injured. Doherty out. Coleman out.Someone has to fill the gaps unless we stick a scarecrow at LB / LWB v France and Holland. Am I missing anyone ?

Why, when you've already got two specialist left wingbacks available and named in the squad, in Manning and Stevens, do we also need an ageing, limited, League Two, converted winger in there as well? Only two right wingbacks have been named, after all, and one of those is suspended for one of the games.

There's asolutely no need to resort to League Two players. Or scarecrows.

In any case, Ebosele can cover both sides.

It only serves to act as a ready-made excuse when we're out of the running for qualification with several games to go, yet again.

'Sure what do you expect? It's not Kenny's fault - we had a League Two player out there on the pitch last night'.

[pineapple stu]

Right sided mostly far as I know.
It's a disaster having to pick a D4 player on his way down, I'm not happy about it in case I'm misunderstood. But if it's a choice between a D4 player who you know exactly what you'll get from who's been in these type games before & seeing how a newbie gets on - in these two games & these circumstances, well I can see why he called it the way he did.
I suppose Scales is the another option - has played left wing-back and been in the squad on that basis before, but I think is more at home at centre-back and afaik was playing at centre-back for Aberdeen last year and for Celtic last week.

I'm inclined to agree with you on McClean though. He hasn't suddenly become a worse player because he's dropped two divisions (to a pretty well-funded team), but against that the more he plays there (and he's only played once so far), the less sharp he's surely likely to be for these games. I can't see how his involvement lasts beyond this campaign. Probably same goes for Coleman if we're honest. And then we're back to the same question of who's left...

[JR89]

Would you put him in this squad ?

Nope. I like the lad and hope he pushes on in the next couple of years but wouldn't have him in the squad atm. Don't think we'll get a play off, so starting from New Zealand in November we should have at a minimum five friendlies and I'd be looking to try out new blood such as Lyons and co in the WB positions or FB positions if we've a new manager by then and he reverts back to four in defence.

[Crosby87]

Isn’t Hendrick being named under the same auspices as Parrott not being named?

[Eirambler]

There's nobody better out there who is fit and wasn't called up. Probably the thing that strikes me though is that there are three left sided defenders in there. Kenny hinted in the press conference that McClean isn't fully fit, which is why there are three for that position. Which suggests that one of Manning or Stevens is only in because McClean is not fully fit and wouldn't have been picked otherwise.

[Trequartista20]

Looking at the squad as a whole, it's good that Manning Duffy, Manning, Stevens and Festy have been called up. Their recalls are merited and their presence strengthens the squad.

It's also good, in a way, to see that Omobamidele and Parrott haven't been called up again just because they have been in the past. If they want to get back in, they'll have to earn the opportunity.

Kenny has made the right calls in these instances, I think, and deserves credit.

Including McClean is baffling. He didn't become a bad player over night - short of catastrophic injury, no player does - but his career has been in decline for several years, and has now reached the point where he's playing at too low a level to be worthy of inclusion. And, in any event, I just don't see how he can be fit.

Calling up Hendrick seems strange, unless Kenny's been informed that he's on the verge of a move. Surely he can't be ready to start any of the games, having been frozen out at Newcastle. So why select him?

Connolly being in surprises me, given that Rosenior has said he still isn't fit enough to play more than 30 minutes. I guess Kenny has concluded that he'd be a useful option of the bench if we're in a situation where we're desperate for a goal. But I think he'd have been better served staying at his club and working on his fitness.

[JR89]

Looking at the squad as a whole, it's good that Manning Duffy, Manning, Stevens and Festy have been called up. Their recalls are merited and their presence strengthens the squad.

It's also good, in a way, to see that Omobamidele and Parrott haven't been called up again just because they have been in the past. If they want to get back in, they'll have to earn the opportunity.

Kenny has made the right calls in these instances, I think, and deserves credit.

Including McClean is baffling. He didn't become a bad player over night - short of catastrophic injury, no player does - but his career has been in decline for several years, and has now reached the point where he's playing at too low a level to be worthy of inclusion. And, in any event, I just don't see how he can be fit.

Calling up Hendrick seems strange, unless Kenny's been informed that he's on the verge of a move. [B[Surely he can't be ready to start any of the games, having been frozen out at Newcastle. So why select him?

Connolly being in surprises me, given that Rosenior has said he still isn't fit enough to play more than 30 minutes. I guess Kenny has concluded that he'd be a useful option of the bench if we're in a situation where we're desperate for a goal. But I think he'd have been better served staying at his club and working on his fitness.

Well he won't be starting any games and likely will get a few minutes off the bench if even that. So far this campaign he's only played 5mins against Gibraltar. In the three friendlies between the NLs and qualifiers he played 8mins against Norway, 24mins against Malta, and 8mins against Latvia.

[mark12345]

Regardless of all he has done, calling a guy up from League 2 to face 2 the best sides in the world is just embarrassing. McClean simply should not be there.

And....Hendrick and McGrath deemed to be better than Smozdics? Doesn't make the slightest bit of sense

[Eirambler]

I suppose the question with Hendrick is - if you're not picking him, what central midfielder who has played regularly in the position this season are you replacing him with? Because I'm not seeing anyone that fits that description who plays at a decent level. Szmodics is an attacking midfielder/forward, Sykes is a wide player. Taylor hasn't been playing. Looking further down the divisions the next candidate would be Hourihane but I think there might be a widespread meltdown among Irish supporters if he was brought back. But we might be one injury away from it right now...and Smallbone's fitness for next week is questionable as things stand.

[SkStu]

Looking at the squad as a whole, it's good that Manning Duffy, Manning, Stevens and Festy have been called up. Their recalls are merited and their presence strengthens the squad.

It's also good, in a way, to see that Omobamidele and Parrott haven't been called up again just because they have been in the past. If they want to get back in, they'll have to earn the opportunity.

Kenny has made the right calls in these instances, I think, and deserves credit.

Including McClean is baffling. He didn't become a bad player over night - short of catastrophic injury, no player does - but his career has been in decline for several years, and has now reached the point where he's playing at too low a level to be worthy of inclusion. And, in any event, I just don't see how he can be fit.

Calling up Hendrick seems strange, unless Kenny's been informed that he's on the verge of a move. Surely he can't be ready to start any of the games, having been frozen out at Newcastle. So why select him?

Connolly being in surprises me, given that Rosenior has said he still isn't fit enough to play more than 30 minutes. I guess Kenny has concluded that he'd be a useful option of the bench if we're in a situation where we're desperate for a goal. But I think he'd have been better served staying at his club and working on his fitness.

On the whole, I kind of agree with you about McClean. I just dont know who takes that position instead of him. On one hand, if you have comfort, with COD and Doc out, in having a set of Manning, Festy and Stevens in there to cover the left - what else do you need? On the other hand, does McClean perform more of a team bonding, senior player, quasi-captain role in the absence of Coleman and there is some benefit to that in Kenny's mind? (McClean is well liked among the players to be fair).

There is no-one that stands out as missing at his expense.

If McClean starts, or even sees game time, all bets are off...

[elatedscum]

I suppose the question with Hendrick is - if you're not picking him, what central midfielder who has played regularly in the position this season are you replacing him with? Because I'm not seeing anyone that fits that description who plays at a decent level. Szmodics is an attacking midfielder/forward, Sykes is a wide player. Taylor hasn't been playing. Looking further down the divisions the next candidate would be Hourihane but I think there might be a widespread meltdown among Irish supporters if he was brought back. But we might be one injury away from it right now...and Smallbone's fitness for next week is questionable as things stand.

The genuine options as a deep midfielder to replace him were: Hodge (injured), Connell (injured), Coventry (not playing), Kilkenny (not playing). Otherwise, you're talking about LOI (Git Forrester perhaps?)

Makes total sense to me that Hendrick is still being picked in that context.

[CraftyToePoke]

It only serves to act as a ready-made excuse when we're out of the running for qualification with several games to go, yet again.

'Sure what do you expect? It's not Kenny's fault - we had a League Two player out there on the pitch last night'.

You were quoting me when your post took this bit of a meander when I have not said anything that could be remotely construed or indeed misconstrued in this way.

Neither has anybody else on the thread.

These hoardes of in chorus Kennyite voices are entirely in your head & maybe you shouldn't let them get in there so easily.

If & when we do get two good beatings it'll be more to do with our midfield, in as much as we don't have one in terms of the level we are inconvenienced by having to play at. Maybe Kenny will take those ones with him & the new guy will bring some better ones, ones we'd all prefer. Because until we have some of those, we're kinda stuck where we are, broadly speaking.

Unless we go back to bypassing midfield again. Because that was a great watch.

[ontheotherhand]

McNamara and Lyons I suppose, but I think they're both right-sided players, not left?

Depends what sort of approach you're taking but Lyons was at his best playing as an inverted left sided wing back for Rovers and it's where he played 95% of the time. Cutting inside and linking with the forward player to get into the box and shoot on his right was his bread and butter. Might be better suited to the right side if we played full backs or the wing backs went outside more than in.

[osarusan]

Squad announced, no Parrott, but Hendrick and McClean are included

1697222250036900181

Interesting to look at this and see that although there are 12 players aged 26 or older, there are only 3 with more than 50 caps. We don't have anybody under 25 with more than 20 caps.

It really does indicate lads being drafted into squads at 23, 24, 25, when somebody else retires, rather than beind clear starters from the age of 18 or 19.


We have very very few 'stalwarts' that have been there for years and are going to be there for years more.

[zero]

going into these 2 games with zero confidence. even if we somehow managed to win one of them - which i don't rule out - it feels fairly meaningless. fair enough the squad isn't great but my lack of confidence is down to the management team rather than the playing squad.

[tommy_c12000]

A 20m central defender left out as “not playing”, Andy still started a game and came on as a sub. Only not starting as he was clearly moving. Hendrick (0 minutes) and McClean (league two). Poor Kenny just continues to baffle

[pineapple stu]

He hasn't been starting for most of the past six months in fairness. That's a long time to put down to an imminent transfer

[Jolly Red Giant]

Kenny is an idiot

[tetsujin1979]

It's not really the same as Omobamidele. Kenny has options at centre half that have played more this season than Omobamidele, he doesn't really have the same level of choice in central midfield. Hendrick knows the setup, so it's not like parachuting in a debutant and hoping he can pick things up in time to face two of the top ten ranked sides in the world.

[liamoo11]

It's not really the same as Omobamidele. Kenny has options at centre half that have played more this season than Omobamidele, he doesn't really have the same level of choice in central midfield. Hendrick knows the setup, so it's not like parachuting in a debutant and hoping he can pick things up in time to face two of the top ten ranked sides in the world.

It is strange to leave him out though. He clearly is someone along with collins and o shea we are going to be building our 3 at the back around . I can't see how Duffy fits that system better than Omobamidele

[tommy_c12000]

Don’t exactly have the quality squad to leave out a 21 year old who a premier league club paid at least 20 million for. Forest from the trees. ? The circus continues

[Jolly Red Giant]

It's not really the same as Omobamidele. Kenny has options at centre half that have played more this season than Omobamidele, he doesn't really have the same level of choice in central midfield. Hendrick knows the setup, so it's not like parachuting in a debutant and hoping he can pick things up in time to face two of the top ten ranked sides in the world.
Here is the issue - both Omobamidele and Collins could potentially play in midfield - the old Paul McGrath role - I think Omobamidele would be better because he has better vision and can read the game better.

Kenny wants to play passing football but can't see past Cullen, Hendrick and Molumby (and god-forbid McClean).