France V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 7th September 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

[zero]

SK will be happy enough, only 2-0 in the end.

one of those awkward situations where the head says i hope we don't get a result v the dutch in case it means he stays on. He couldn't have done much more tonight (bar the obvious mistake of starting stevens), but it's the other results and performances that should see him shown the door.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Another game/result like that in a few days and SK will be getting another few months. Somehow.

[osarusan]

France won without really needing to break a sweat. It was always going to be like that I guess.

I find it hard to criticise anybody as the opponent was just better. We were game enough I suppose, but we're just a very limited team and were simply outclassed.

[brine3]

The entire program is stuck in neutral at best

We're parked on a hill with a dodgy handbrake

[zero]

there were some positives - kept the goal difference down so still in the box seat to finish 4th in the group.

[pineapple stu]

We just didn’t lay a finger on them second half.
Yup. We put ten men behind the ball and just defended. Practically zero ambition in the second half. To an extent I don't recall us ever playing before.

Yet it worked I suppose - even if France missed two or three glorious chances. It really could have been 4/5 but wasn't.

I think Kenny comes out of that one about as he went into it. But we can't do the same on Sunday surely?

One random stat - four games in and we mathematically can't win the group

[Insidetherock]

Reality is.. you now see the group take shape..

France will win it easily

Holland will easily take second

If Ireland beat Greece at home.. they'll likely finish third.. depending on goal difference between the two sides and Gibralter

Finishing third.. is where we're supposed to finishing.. playing to our seeding

We've brought through, a whole new squad.. not even a new team.. Ebosele tonight is the 19th new debutant..

We've played most of the last 8 games, with an u21 team.. hopefully, hopefully.. the next manager, because I expect Kenny to be gone next week.. can take on those players.. do well in the world cup qualifiers, probably not qualify there either.. but have a mature team ready for the Euros in 2028..

We're playing better football than when Kenny started.. but we need results..

Stevens, Browne, Duffy, Mc Clean, Keane, and a few more.. we may as well drop them now, but they'll maybe get the end of the campaign.. but we do have lots of.. potential

Hopefully it's going to come through

[pineapple stu]

Crikey - France had 25 shots but only 5 on target. Wasteful stuff

[Crosby87]

The opponent are just better, of course but the bar is so low that we didn't lose 4-0, the players showed up in the correct tops, no one appeared to lack sobriety or show up at the wrong stadium so we are happy.

In the glory days of foot.ie it would not be good enough. Age has mellowed many of ye!

[elatedscum]

France are legit the best team in the world - and probably better than the best club side which is rare for international football, like even that great great Spanish team probably weren’t as good as the Barcelona side that existed at the same time. No shame to lose to them.

Saying that, performance in the second half was underwhelming…

[pineapple stu]

Whoscored saying Will Keane didn't touch the ball in his ten minutes on the pitch - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1691193/LiveStatistics/International-European-Championship-2023-France-Ireland

And still got a higher rating than Adam Idah :p

[Crosby87]

Maybe he was told not to Stu.

[SkStu]

Have to love Ogbene. Just a sound lad. Actually, it’s a fairly likeable squad all round.

I know we expected the result but the performance was left wanting. First half was fine but the second half was below expectations. I don’t want to pick on him but McClean shouldn’t have come on for Stevens. It was the wrong decision on an obvious problem. Overall the changes and substitutions around half time made us worse. And I’ll say it again, someone should have stuck a boot in and taken a card when France were coming for their second goal. All you want to do in that game context is stay in it, keep it at one nil as long as you can and then adjust and give it socks for the last 15 minutes. Even if we concede, at that point I’ll take the argument that the performance was effective…

I’m not surprised at the result and I had no hopes so I’m not really disappointed either but there’s very little to take away from that other than individual positives like the effectiveness of Ogbene, Duffy did well on his return, Browne at RWB was a good shout and Idah, I thought, did admirably in a thankless role.

[Supreme feet]

In the glory days of foot.ie it would not be good enough. Age has mellowed many of ye!

If the glory days of foot.ie were anything to go by, we’d have avoided nights like tonight. If we’d been right, a midfield of Owen Garvan, James McCarthy and Darron Gibson would have ensured top seed status for the last ten years.

[Eminence Grise]

We've brought through, a whole new squad.. not even a new team.. Ebosele tonight is the 19th new debutant.

Yes, but against that Kenny has unfathomable loyalty to James McClean. I never thought I'd see an Ireland team with a fourth-tier player in it. It's ludicrous and embarrassing. People have mocked LoI call ups, Joey Lapira... but this is as low a moment as any of those. The grand ideas he had at the start have been replaced by a paralysis of fear. Time to hand over the reigns so somebody else can benefit from those 19 debutants.

[third policeman]

Reality is.. you now see the group take shape..

We're playing better football than when Kenny started.. but we need results..



Seriously? That was as negative, incoherent and unstructured as any Ireland performance under O’Neil or Mick. There was no fluency, very little movement and a complete inability to keep possession for more than 2 passes.

[Crosby87]

We need a fiery meet up like we used to have at Crackbird to sort things out.

It was like a 1930s German beer hall.

We will start with 50 manager names and whittle it down to 5 before sun up.

[SkStu]

Crackbird :D :D

[Supreme feet]

We need a fiery meet up like we used to have at Crackbird to sort things out.

It was like a 1930s German beer hall.

We will start with 50 manager names and whittle it down to 5 before sun up.

Crosby, it’ll be Neil Lennon. Accept it.

[pineapple stu]

I don’t want to pick on him but McClean shouldn’t have come on for Stevens. It was the wrong decision on an obvious problem.
Thought McClean was one of our better players in fairness. That's not saying much, mind. But I thought he did ok

[Jd2793]

Yes, but against that Kenny has unfathomable loyalty to James McClean. I never thought I'd see an Ireland team with a fourth-tier player in it. It's ludicrous and embarrassing. People have mocked LoI call ups, Joey Lapira... but this is as low a moment as any of those. The grand ideas he had at the start have been replaced by a paralysis of fear. Time to hand over the reigns so somebody else can benefit from those 19 debutants.

mcclean is still our best left back, let that sink in for a minute.... with nothing much coming up behind him

[Eminence Grise]

Maybe so, but it's on Kenny for not breaking out of this miserable dependency 10 or 15 games ago.

[SkStu]

Thought McClean was one of our better players in fairness. That's not saying much, mind. But I thought he did ok

He was better than Stevens, granted, but he was still caught out of position a few times and Dembele still had him for pace every time. And then Coman rinse and repeat.

I suppose I’d have looked for O’Shea instead as a better choice. Possibly Manning if the game context was different. Ebosele would have been risky.

[seanfhear]

What kind of food is served in French stadiums? Do they have fancy hotdogs
Royals or something like that from Pulp Fiction ! !

[Crosby87]

Its not James fault. I love the guy, but I love Diana Ross too, and she would also be too slow at this point.

[backstothewall]

Its not James fault. I love the guy, but I love Diana Ross too, and she would also be too slow at this point.

I'd sooner have Jimbo hitting penos tbf.

[pineapple stu]

He was better than Stevens, granted, but he was still caught out of position a few times and Dembele still had him for pace every time. And then Coman rinse and repeat.

I suppose I’d have looked for O’Shea instead as a better choice. Possibly Manning if the game context was different. Ebosele would have been risky.
Yeah, it's not a ringing endorsement for sure.

You have to love McClean but he can't keep up to level in the fourth tier. We need other options. And it's hard to work out who they are based on tonight. Festy got sold a couple of times for example. But it was against France; what can you do.

I just don't see where we're going here, and a lot of the promising young kids seem to be stopping that bit short of potential (like the comments about Cullen earlier)

[Calcio Jack]

Its not James fault. I love the guy, but I love Diana Ross too, and she would also be too slow at this point.

Well I can’t stand him …. Like Kenny a spoofer of limited talent over the years , who never was up to much even at his peak, and more often than not was a liability as gave away the ball continuously, couldn’t cross the ball and collected yellow cards - his only talent seems to be his almost obsessive pride in playing for us which may somewhat admirable but adds nothing to the team - it’s an insult to the shirt that he’s managed to accumulate so many caps…. Hopefully soon he and Kenny will be gone

[CraftyToePoke]

Well I can’t stand him …. Like Kenny a spoofer of limited talent over the years , who never was up to much even at his peak, and more often than not was a liability as gave away the ball continuously, couldn’t cross the ball and collected yellow cards - his only talent seems to be his almost obsessive pride in playing for us which may somewhat admirable but adds nothing to the team - it’s an insult to the shirt that he’s managed to accumulate so many caps…. Hopefully soon he and Kenny will be gone

Vent it all out buddy, make yourself clear, don't let it eat you up inside.

I don't get this angry hard on for Jimmy Mc post match from some of the usually more reasoned posters on here, Stevens was being humiliated, watch it back, his head was gone he'd been torn a new one so many times consecutively. If its McClean or have a Paris look see as to whether Manning has learnt defensive positioning and attention to duty since Saturday, well, its the Derryman isn't it ? & it did improve matters down that side, it didn't make things perfect, it didn't even make things right, but it stopped the bleeding & gave Stevens a chance to get some much needed counselling as the 45 he produced will have left a scar.

Who has been passed over in the overhaul who should by now be our left sided defensive go to Eminence ?

[Fixer82]

Thought McClean was excellent tonight. One of our best performers in a match where we were seriously out of our depth.
Him and Ogbene did really well

[Jd2793]

Well I can’t stand him …. Like Kenny a spoofer of limited talent over the years , who never was up to much even at his peak, and more often than not was a liability as gave away the ball continuously, couldn’t cross the ball and collected yellow cards - his only talent seems to be his almost obsessive pride in playing for us which may somewhat admirable but adds nothing to the team - it’s an insult to the shirt that he’s managed to accumulate so many caps…. Hopefully soon he and Kenny will be gone


utter nonsense.

[tetsujin1979]

We need a fiery meet up like we used to have at Crackbird to sort things out.

It was like a 1930s German beer hall.

We will start with 50 manager names and whittle it down to 5 before sun up.
Crosby, you might want to sit down
I have some bad news about Crackbird.

[John83]

Tonight went about as well as it could: our goal difference isn't hurt too much, and Greece got spanked. I wish we could scrap with France, but we can't.

[DCWA]

Thought McClean was excellent tonight. One of our best performers in a match where we were seriously out of our depth.
Him and Ogbene did really well

Yeah I don’t get the McClean hate at all on this one was a significant improvement on our left flank and put in at least 3 good balls (at least two of which lead to headers on target, Ogbene and Duffy).

For all that having a 4th tier in England player called up is embarrassing and hard to take (although I feel James might be the first but won’t be the last)there isn’t too much to fault him on from last night.

[texidub]

Ogbene's continued development in an Irish jersey, with 2 MoM performances against France, is the only major plus from these games. He could have passed earlier a couple of times, but he was still the danger man.

Bazunu looked jittery. Hopefully a blip, but I get the sense that his confidence has been dented by his experience at Southampton.
Stevens was out of it. Debutant didn't shine. Knight industrious. Collins good. Duffy's return a good thing. The rest a bit meh, neither good nor awful.

Defnitely, absolutely, categorically, Kenny's last chance saloon on Sunday. (And even if we win, I think he's done his best and had long enough.)

[osarusan]

Why would Kenny be fired if we lose against the Dutch?

I'd expect the same again - another defensive performance where superior opposition eventually get a goal and we don't have the quality to get back into it.

A loss to the Dutch (unless it's 7-0 or something) wouldn't be even close to our worst result under him.

[osarusan]

The mildly viral social media images of an Irish fan taunting French fans with an Argentina Messi shirt is some sad stuff.

[NeverFeltBetter]

That's generally my sentiment too. I think the goalposts for this campaign were decisively moved in the minds of too many people in charge after the draw was made. Third is the real aim now, even if the usual types in the media are already talking about the team potentially beating the Dutch. As long as Kenny is in a position to get third he'll be safe. Which I don't agree with at all of course, but this is how the FAI seems to want to play it.

[texidub]

Why would Kenny be fired if we lose against the Dutch?


The way we still talk about that home victory over the Dutch when McAteer scored shows how rare these moments are for Irish teams.. and much better, more experienced teams than out current one at that. So I tend to agree.

But nothing about Kenny's tenure is rational any more.

So, I'm thinking a loss to the Dutch, despite that being predictable at any stage in Irish soccer history will be the final nail for Kenny. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part coz it's really time for someone else to come in and I'd like the new manager to get a few games to experiment with in a group that we're already out of.

[osarusan]

I'd like the new manager to get a few games to experiment with in a group that we're already out of.

That part I'd agree with. Let a new manager have a few games to experiment with, but after the two games against France.

I don't see Kenny leaving before the end of the campaign though.

[Diggs246]

Btw on a side note
If you are looking for a big screen venue we watched the game in " the Camden"
It's not a classy joint, but does exactly what it says on the tin

[Diggs246]

That part I'd agree with. Let a new manager have a few games to experiment with, but after the two games against France.

I don't see Kenny leaving before the end of the campaign though.

If Israel beat Romania tomorrow, as I understand it we have a real chance of a playoff and we obviously need a new guy to have some time before those playoffs

[pineapple stu]

That part I'd agree with. Let a new manager have a few games to experiment with, but after the two games against France.

I don't see Kenny leaving before the end of the campaign though.
Nations League doesn't start until next September though. We won't be in the Euros playoff in March (or it's increasingly likely anyway as other results aren't working out) and we won't be at the Euros in the summer of course.

So looks like March window - two friendlies. June window - probably two friendlies against sides warming up for the Euros. That all ties in with Kenny quietly moving on after the New Zealand game in November.

[Fixer82]

I still maintain McCarthy should have been allowed see out his campaign. It's been all over the place since Kenny took over

[osarusan]

Nations League doesn't start until next September though. We won't be in the Euros playoff in March (or it's increasingly likely anyway as other results aren't working out) and we won't be at the Euros in the summer of course.

So looks like March window - two friendlies. June window - probably two friendlies against sides warming up for the Euros. That all ties in with Kenny quietly moving on after the New Zealand game in November.

Yeah, even though more time for a new manager is better, there's enough time for a new manager to experiment without cutting Kenny's time short.

[tetsujin1979]

It's not looking good for the play offs
1699914867770003889

[Diggs246]

Yep
If Israel lose tomorrow its curtains

[weldoninhio]

Why would Kenny be fired if we lose against the Dutch?

I'd expect the same again - another defensive performance where superior opposition eventually get a goal and we don't have the quality to get back into it.

A loss to the Dutch (unless it's 7-0 or something) wouldn't be even close to our worst result under him.

All the talk after the Greece game was that he had a break clause in his contract that meant we could get rid once qualification was gone. I really hope this is the case.

[Stav]

I wonder sometimes what we expect. The squad despite their best efforts are weak. Compare them to the team that beat Holland years ago. The idea that a change of manager will somehow bring about a transformation is delusional. We are not great and will not be for the next while.
The real change has to come at home and (again a subject battered to death) a realistic academy program put in place by the FAI (LOI clubs cannot afford it) in order to maximise the talent in the country. This has been done by English clubs in the past.
This is a project that has to be addressd if we are to progress.

[mark12345]

I wonder sometimes what we expect. The squad despite their best efforts are weak. Compare them to the team that beat Holland years ago. The idea that a change of manager will somehow bring about a transformation is delusional. We are not great and will not be for the next while.
The real change has to come at home and (again a subject battered to death) a realistic academy program put in place by the FAI (LOI clubs cannot afford it) in order to maximise the talent in the country. This has been done by English clubs in the past.
This is a project that has to be addressd if we are to progress.

Agree about the change of manager not being a magic fix. That said it is long past time Kenny should have departed. And then what? Do we keep fighting with our fingernails as a nation or do we study how other successful small nations do it and emulate?