Cian Hughton(B 1989) [Archive]

EalingGreen

03/02/2007, 3:46 PM

I would reckon they cannot play for Ireland unless they have a grandparent or parent who is Irish.

This is not my attempt at a wind-up (well not really ;) ), but I really don't see how Cian Hughton qualifies for the ROI under the existing rules (assuming Chris qualified thanks to a grandparent).

Whatever his heritage and his father's accomplishments, Cian was born in the England i.e. the footballing jurisdiction of the FA. Therefore, if he wishes to represent the ROI, this must surely be considered to be a "transfer" of nationality. And post-2004, the Rules state that not having been born within the ROI's jurisdiction himself, Cian will need either to have a parent or grandparent who was born in Ireland or himself to have resided continuously in the ROI for the last two years.

The fact that his background/ancestry etc might be sufficient cause for the Irish Government to grant Cian citizenship/passport etc is hardly relevant, since the Rules were tightened since the willingness of certain Governments to naturalise non-natives was making a mockery of the normal principles of eligibility.

P.S. I have absolutely nothing against Cian's right to represent the ROI should he want, since it doesn't in any way affect NI. It seems strange that someone can't represent the country his father did. Indeed, as a Spurs fan from Chris's playing days, I'd be more than happy to see Cian follow in his father's footsteps for both club and country.

NeilMcD

03/02/2007, 3:50 PM

Maybe it was Chris Hughtons parents that allowed him to Qualify for Ireland

BobbySands

03/02/2007, 3:53 PM

My parents were born in Ireland. I was born outside the country while my father was serving with the UN in his capacity as an Irish army officer. My family returned to Ireland when I was six weeks old.

Step forward a good few years. I'm living in the states and I have a son who I decide I'll register as an Irish citizen. Turns out he's not eligible through me as I wasn't born in the country. I'd be interested to hear from Cian how he pulled this off.

NeilMcD

03/02/2007, 3:56 PM

Cause you can play for Ireland if your grand parents are born in Ireland, Maybe thats how he qualifies

cavan_fan

03/02/2007, 3:56 PM

Like most of us, I know sod all about Cian's background but I guess he has a mother too? Any idea where she is from?

FarBeag

03/02/2007, 4:22 PM

Maybe this article will put all our minds at rest.

FindArticles > Publications > Free > News & Society > Sunday Mirror > Feb 2, 2003 > Article

Football: CHRIS SO GLAD TO BE CALLED UP
Sunday Mirror, Feb 2, 2003 by CATHAL DERVAN

Almost 24 years after he became the first black player to represent the Republic of Ireland, Hughton will take up his role as Brian Kerr's assistant manager.

And Hughton, who won 53 caps for his mother's land, is counting down the days to next weekend's first squad get-together in Glasgow ahead of the Hampden friendly with Scotland.

"If I get half as much pleasure and find half as much happiness as coach as I did in all my time as a player with Ireland, then I will be the happiest man in the world," said Hughton after his appointment was rubber-stamped by his club Tottenham and the FAI on Friday.

"I played for 12 years for Ireland and I have nothing but great memories of all those 53 games I was involved in under Johnny Giles, Eoin Hand and Jack Charlton.

"The highlights on the field were playing in the European Championship in 1988 and going as part of the squad to our first World Cup finals in 1990. But for me, the special highlight was coming through the arrivals door at Dublin Airport in 1979 and knowing I was about to play for my country and make my mum, who was born in Limerick, the proudest mother in the world.

cclinton

03/02/2007, 5:32 PM

I'm living in the states and I have a son who I decide I'll register as an Irish citizen.

Bobby.. a kid born abroad of someone who was born in Ireland is automatically a citizen. There's no need for a foreign birth registration, in that specific situation.

In contrast, a kid born abroad, of an Irish parent who was also born abroad to a parent who was born in Ireland, does have to register as a foreign birth in order to invoke Irish citizenship .:eek:

Dodge

03/02/2007, 6:59 PM

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=267

A person born abroad to a parent who, although not born in Ireland, was otherwise an Irish citizen at the time of the person’s birth, can become an Irish citizen by applying for Foreign Births Registration
---

You can read the rest there. Basically Chris Hughton could've registered Cian's "Irishness" when he was born, therefore making him eligible for an irish passport

osarusan

04/02/2007, 2:46 AM

Bobby.. a kid born abroad of someone who was born in Ireland is automatically a citizen. There's no need for a foreign birth registration, in that specific situation.

In contrast, a kid born abroad, of an Irish parent who was also born abroad to a parent who was born in Ireland, does have to register as a foreign birth in order to invoke Irish citizenship .:eek:

Exactly correct. I am dealing with this situation as we prepare for the birth of a child here in Japan. Our child will automatically be an Irish citizen, but our grandchildren would have to register. I am guessing that is they register, and become a citizen, then their children, grandchildren etc, would be able to continue the process by continuing to register.

From a football point of view, what we should do is confer Irish citizenship posthumously on the entire porulation of Brazil..................

Lionel Ritchie

04/02/2007, 9:15 AM

Glad someone found the article ...Chris mam, (Cians Gran) is from Southill, Limerick city.

osarusan

04/02/2007, 9:55 AM

but I really don't see how Cian Hughton qualifies for the ROI under the existing rules (assuming Chris qualified thanks to a grandparent).

The word assuming is important here. As it turns out, his mum is Irish, but we weren't sure.

So no more tosh from Ealing Green then!

None of the words are important here.

P.S. I have absolutely nothing against Cian's right to represent the ROI should he want, since it doesn't in any way affect NI. It seems strange that someone can't represent the country his father did. Indeed, as a Spurs fan from Chris's playing days, I'd be more than happy to see Cian follow in his father's footsteps for both club and country.

Is this the "tosh" you are talking about Tuff Paddy?

On a side note, does a person have to become a citizen of a country in order to play for them?

Lionel Ritchie

04/02/2007, 11:15 AM

I thought you'd packing to do TP.:rolleyes:

Inflatable novelty tricolour hammer -Check
All in one leprechaun beard/wig/hat combo device -Check

After all -The San Marinese lie o'er the hill.

livehead1

04/02/2007, 11:50 AM

Ealing, I have never seen anyone who writes as much on here, with so little of it making sense, are you being paid to liven up debate?

Qwerty

04/02/2007, 3:39 PM

There are a lot more EalingGreens up North, that's why the debate about an all Ireland team is a phoney debate. Personally I'm hoping that the increasing numbers of young Irish players who live in NI and have opted to play for Ireland will continue and become the first and natural choice for Irish players of a nationalist persuasion.

Qwerty

04/02/2007, 9:34 PM

Spring must be here; the cavemen are awakening from their winter slumber and posting to foot.ie.

lopez

05/02/2007, 8:40 AM

Its good to see he's opted for us. i think Chris qualified under the grandparents rule but i think he was always quite proud of his roots...Limerick born mother. Ghanaian father. Met them both a few years ago. I know Chris well myself, and there's no doubting his Irishness.
My parents were born in Ireland. I was born outside the country while my father was serving with the UN in his capacity as an Irish army officer. My family returned to Ireland when I was six weeks old.

Step forward a good few years. I'm living in the states and I have a son who I decide I'll register as an Irish citizen. Turns out he's not eligible through me as I wasn't born in the country. I'd be interested to hear from Cian how he pulled this off.You've been ill advised. Neither myself nor Conchita were born in Ireland but our kids (three Irish born grandparents) are Irish citizens. Actually, your birth status means that you could not have picked up citizenship in any country because of your father's diplomatic work. I had to fork out about £35 each for a FBC, which takes around six months to process :rolleyes: as it goes back to Dublin. Well worth it though, and unless there is a break in the generation, Irish citizenship is passed on indefinitely providing a FBC is purchased. This info is sadly not something in the public domain. It came as a shock for my first born, and only a contact at the Irish Embassy in London sorted this out within a day (so much for the six months etc.)

Paddy Garcia

05/02/2007, 9:56 AM

Whatever his heritage and his father's accomplishments, Cian was born in the England i.e. the footballing jurisdiction of the FA. Therefore, if he wishes to represent the ROI, this must surely be considered to be a "transfer" of nationality.

Possibly posted in jest but this type of comment is unhelpful. Even though it is erroneous it undermines the credibility of the team & its image and is subverting in nature. Especially with the ongoing efforts to prevent Gibson from representing his country.

You may well have made assumptions about Cian's family, but you will know the old saying about assume: When we "assume" we make an "ass" out of "u" and "me". ;)

EalingGreen

05/02/2007, 10:26 AM

[Originally Posted by EalingGreen
"Whatever his heritage and his father's accomplishments, Cian was born in the England i.e. the footballing jurisdiction of the FA. Therefore, if he wishes to represent the ROI, this must surely be considered to be a "transfer" of nationality"]

Possibly posted in jest but this type of comment is unhelpful. Even though it is erroneous it undermines the credibility of the team & its image and is subverting in nature. Especially with the ongoing efforts to prevent Gibson from representing his country.

You may well have made assumptions about Cian's family, but you will know the old saying about assume: When we "assume" we make an "ass" out of "u" and "me". ;)

Taking your last paragraph first, it was RiffRaff who opened this thread and he was under the impression that Chris H may have qualified for ROI on the basis of a grandparent. A couple of other early posters were similarly unsure.
I did not make the error of taking RiffRaff's supposition at face value, rather, for the sake of argument, I merely posted that if it were so, then Cian almost certainly would not be eligible for ROI (so no "ass" about it, though your reading of my post could clearly be termed "asinine")

As for your first paragraph, that is pure horlicks. I am confident that my post was not erroneous (I can post the relevant FIFA statutes if you like), there was no attempt to "undermine" or "subvert" anything, and neither did I bring the (irrelevant) Gibson affair into the debate - quite the contrary in fact.

Were you really so incensed that someone like me might dare to ponder Cian's situation, that you failed to read my final paragraph of my post? To refresh, it was:

"P.S. I have absolutely nothing against Cian's right to represent the ROI should he want, since it doesn't in any way affect NI. It seems strange that someone can't represent the country his father did. Indeed, as a Spurs fan from Chris's playing days, I'd be more than happy to see Cian follow in his father's footsteps for both club and country."

Sadly, you appear to be another in the minority of posters on this Board who can't see the wood (football) for the trees (politics). Would it help your understanding of the issue had Cian H e.g. been born and brought up in France, and I were e.g. Swedish?

P.S. Did anyone else have a fleeting vision of David Brent dispensing one of his pearls of wisdom when they read PG's repetition of the tired old "When we assume etc"? ;)

Paddy Garcia

05/02/2007, 11:16 AM

Taking your last paragraph first, it was RiffRaff who opened this thread and he was under the impression that Chris H may have qualified for ROI on the basis of a grandparent.

No, it was Joe Barry.

I really don't see how Cian Hughton qualifies for the ROI under the existing rules.

I am confident that my post was not erroneous

You are wrong because your assumption is wrong.

Sadly, you appear to be another in the minority of posters on this Board who can't see the wood (football) for the trees (politics). ;)

I have no interest in the politics. I come here to read about football, however recently I have increasingly been coming across your posts which do bring a general hostility to the Irish team to the table.

As I have said before you do have a habit of throwing in a subversive comment and then excusing yourself with some mitigating comment. In this instance that you "have absolutely nothing against Cian's right to represent the ROI should he want". No doubt he is grateful, but nonethess puzzled at your ill informed challenge to his legitimate right.

BTW as far as I am concerned you are very welcome here - you often make me smile. Not incensed at all.

P.S. Did anyone else have a fleeting vision of David Brent dispensing one of his pearls of wisdom when they read PG's repetition of the tired old "When we assume etc"? ;)

That would be the same David Brent who has too much time on his hands and who endlessly philosophises on topics irrelevant to his colleagues. Funny that cos I think my first post concerning you was wondering how you had the time to contribute ad nauseam to the forum of a team you don't support.

As for dispensing pearls of wisdom... I have heard Ealing is the best place for pompous, long-winded preaching.

Over the post

05/02/2007, 11:50 AM

Limerick born mother. Ghanaian father. Met them both a few years ago. I know Chris well myself, and there's no doubting his Irishness.You've been ill advised. Neither myself nor Conchita were born in Ireland but our kids (three Irish born grandparents) are Irish citizens. Actually, your birth status means that you could not have picked up citizenship in any country because of your father's diplomatic work. I had to fork out about £35 each for a FBC, which takes around six months to process :rolleyes: as it goes back to Dublin. Well worth it though, and unless there is a break in the generation, Irish citizenship is passed on indefinitely providing a FBC is purchased. This info is sadly not something in the public domain. It came as a shock for my first born, and only a contact at the Irish Embassy in London sorted this out within a day (so much for the six months etc.)

I'm in a similar situation; I was born in the UK to an Irish father and moved to Ireland when I was 4. I've just had a kid in Spain and was told by the Embassy that although he is not automatically elegible due to me being born in the perfidious Albion, applying for citizenship shouldn't be a problem. The paperwork is a pain but I was thinking of trying to convince Stan that my young fella has the potential to be one of the hot prospects he seems so fond of and maybe get the application fast-tracked :D He's only a month old but he has the look of a midfield dynamo about him...

lopez

05/02/2007, 1:06 PM

...As for your first paragraph, that is pure horlicks. I am confident that my post was not erroneous (I can post the relevant FIFA statutes if you like...Post them!

lopez

07/02/2007, 2:43 AM

Post them!
Post them!

No response yet. :rolleyes: Obviously the usual cojones.

EalingGreen

07/02/2007, 2:10 PM

No response yet. :rolleyes: Obviously the usual cojones.

http://www.fifa.com/documents/static/regulations/Status_Transfer_EN.pdf

A player who, under the terms of Art. 15 of the Regulations Governing
the Application of the FIFA Statutes, is eligible to represent more
than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an
international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to
having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following
conditions:

a) he was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
b ) his biological mother or biological father was born on the territory
of the relevant Association;
c) his grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the
relevant Association;
d) he has lived on the territory of the relevant Association for at least
two years without interruption.

Who's talking balls, now?

as_i_say

07/02/2007, 4:09 PM

as usual, you are.

Dodge

08/02/2007, 7:10 AM

Cian played the first half at right back for Ireland against Holland last night. He was replaced by Derek Foran of St pats. Chris Hughton was in attendance and asked about his son, he said he was very proud to see him represent his country. Case closed...

Jerry The Saint

08/02/2007, 9:21 AM

Dodge

08/02/2007, 9:26 AM

Very highly thought of in british circles. read an interview with Aaron Lennon who said Hihton was the biggest influence on his career.

Paddy Garcia

08/02/2007, 9:28 AM

Good coach that Chris Hughton.

Probably our best qualified by some distance.

Jerry The Saint

08/02/2007, 9:37 AM

Probably our best qualified by some distance.

Kevin McDonald, Alan Kelly and Pat Devlin are good too though...

gustavo

08/02/2007, 10:12 AM

:D :D

Kevin McDonald, Alan Kelly and Pat Devlin are good too though...

tetsujin1979

08/02/2007, 10:56 AM

What was the game like? 0-0 against the Dutch isn't a bad result, given the lack of experience at this level by the majority of players.

wws

08/02/2007, 11:05 AM

dreadful game
the dutch looked to a man physically stronger and bigger than their irish counterparts

its only a friendly though

Foran looks the real deal, plenty of foreign scouts sniffing around him
Haverty as well looks like the next John Giles

cant be long before these lads are starring on sky sports

cheifo

08/02/2007, 11:50 AM

I object to the continuous stereotyping of David Brent.The man was a prophet and a great dancer.

lopez

09/02/2007, 12:46 PM

Who's talking balls, now?Once again, you are. :rolleyes:

I presume you are quoting from Annex 2, article 1. This is a section on 'players representing more than one association that they are eligible for.' Here you are making a presumption about the status of a player's nationality. If someone has never had the nationality of another country then this law is irrelevent to a player who hasn't purposely picked up citizenship of the country he was born. Article 15/1 of FIFA regs that you previously posted on ourweeminds states: 'Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of his country. The executive committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibility for any Player who assumes a new nationality...'

Since 1981 Britain no longer slam dunks British nationality on you if you happen to be dropped at the transfer lounge of Heathrow. But the principle of automatic nationality was undermined as far ago as 1946 in the High Treason case of Crown Vs. William Joyce. Joyce, the infamous Lord Haw Haw, obtained himself a British passport despite being born in New York, and it was this choice that condemmned him to the gallows.

EalingGreen

09/02/2007, 5:53 PM

Once again, you are. :rolleyes:

I presume you are quoting from Annex 2, article 1. This is a section on 'players representing more than one association that they are eligible for.' Here you are making a presumption about the status of a player's nationality. If someone has never had the nationality of another country then this law is irrelevent to a player who hasn't purposely picked up citizenship of the country he was born. Article 15/1 of FIFA regs that you previously posted on ourweeminds states: 'Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of his country. The executive committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibility for any Player who assumes a new nationality...'

Since 1981 Britain no longer slam dunks British nationality on you if you happen to be dropped at the transfer lounge of Heathrow. But the principle of automatic nationality was undermined as far ago as 1946 in the High Treason case of Crown Vs. William Joyce. Joyce, the infamous Lord Haw Haw, obtained himself a British passport despite being born in New York, and it was this choice that condemmned him to the gallows.

In your first para, you appear to be assuming that the extra criteria don't apply to Cian H since he "hasn't purposely picked up citizenship of the country [in] which he was born". Which is fair enough, except that those Brazilian-born players who wanted to play for Qatar had never themselves picked up citizenship from their own birthplace. So why were they excluded by FIFA from representing Qatar? Their citizenship and passport, obtained by naturalisation, were every bit as valid in international law as Cian H obtaining an Irish passport/citizenship.
Unless, of course, they were considered by FIFA to have Brazilian nationality by birth and were "assuming a new nationality" when opting to represent Qatar, in which case the extra criteria clearly apply.
Whichever it is, Cian H's situation is not the same as e.g. Gibson/Kane/O'Connor, since they are relying on their having been born in "Ireland" as the basis for their eligibility for the FAI.

As for your second para, I don't know who you're trying to impress with your knowledge, but for the purposes of this thread/FIFA, it's irrelevant horlicks.

Paddy Garcia

09/02/2007, 8:57 PM

You need a new signature:

EALING GREEN SAYS NO - to anything associated with the Republic of Ireland.

lopez

09/02/2007, 10:00 PM

In your first para, you appear to be assuming that the extra criteria don't apply to Cian H since he "hasn't purposely picked up citizenship of the country [in] which he was born"...
Is this more of your Jimmy Cricket 'Thick Paddy' Act? What is it you call it if it weren't for PC gone mad? Being 'Irish'? Cian Hughton qualifies through his grandmother.

As for the Brazilians, sorry but did these people never accept Brazilian citizenship? Were they registered at birth with the Qatari embassy as Qatari citizens by Qatari Brazilians whose own connection with Qatar extended one or two generations beyond the grandparents?

As for your second para, I don't know who you're trying to impress with your knowledge, but for the purposes of this thread/FIFA, it's irrelevant horlicks.Of course. If you don't understand the statement it's 'horlicks' to you. Perhaps you should ask whether you're intelectually up to posting on any forum except the appropriately named ourweeminds.