Steaua v Shels 2nd Leg Official Thread [Archive] - Page 3

pineapple stu

03/08/2005, 8:14 PM

Fenlon is a fool. If he'd started Ndo and Fleming (plus maybe Hoolahan) Shels would have won this. Baker and Crawley are brutal and have cost them dearly.

I actually think that Shels suffered from their lack of ambition in Tolka park. Steau were there for the beating in the first leg but Nutsy decided to play for 0-0.

I know it was a tough match for Shels but Pat Fenlon must shoulder some blame for that performance.

Some of Fenlon's team selections seem poor.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Fenlon isn't a great manager. Obviously, can't argue with what he's won (on the biggest budget in the league), but he has seems to have a habit of making poor tactical decisions. Whatever about Hoolihan (who was supposed to be carrying an injury and not fit enough for 90 minutes), Ndo looked class as well when he came on, yet he only got ten minutes over the two legs. Crawley looked the weakest link last year as well as this, yet Fenlon keeps him in because of his European experience. This over a ten-times capped Irish international who also has European experience! Fleming hardly put a foot wrong, I thought. Crawley hardly put a foot right. When Shels had a go, they weren't far off matching Steaua (who deserved to go through on what I saw tonight; didn't see the home leg).

Still, 4-1 was harsh, which at least is an improvement on the last time an Irish (club) side played out in Bucharest. We've gotten more coefficient points than last year already, and Cork are still in. So it's not all bad!

TheOwl

03/08/2005, 8:19 PM

Was like the Battle of Bucharest especially in the first half. All Shels seemed to know was to either dive or fight.

Shels were hopeless again until decided to go for it in the 2nd half. Fullbacks again hoofed the ball aimlessly into the corners with no forward nearby.

Crawley was again worse than uselss. Fleming made a hude difference when he came on. Harris was also very poor. Moore did feck all except kick.

I think eL sides need to learn that have to try to win home legs. When we sit back with 5 in midfield we are less effective. Cork City were just as guilty as Shels this season but at least had 2 nil lead. Teams need to use advantage of tight home grounds & summer fitness if want to consistently progress in Europe.

Would agree with most of this (especially about pushing on at home), although I thought Harris had a decent game. He had to shoulder a lot of responsibility back there for a guy who hasn't played much this season, and I thought he did ok.

Poor Student

03/08/2005, 8:21 PM

pineapple stu

03/08/2005, 8:25 PM

I'm investigating it on a site that's good on European competitions to see what they've heard.
Ah the joys of the internet! You have one reply suggesting that it's never been more popular and that the replyer is "pretty sure" there'll be a competition next year.

In Fenlon's defence he is a very young manager. I hope he cops on and learns though instead of repeating the same mistakes his whole career.
Meh. He's around three years now - enough to know that if you've got the best player in the league by a distance, you don't keep him on the bench. As for repeating mistakes, the Hibernians result was probably the worst result in recent eL history (even Longford managed to beat Carmarthen in one game, but Shels couldn't beat them in either leg) due in part to Fenlon knowing a draw would suffice (in part also due to bad luck and bad refereeing), yet against KR the next year, he went for the same risky tactics. They worked that time, but it doesn't bode well for learning from mistakes.

Poor Student

03/08/2005, 8:27 PM

Ah the joys of the internet! You have one reply suggesting that it's never been more popular and that the replyer is "pretty sure" there'll be a competition next year.

I'd somehow have assumed Bert Kassies forum would have a group of hardcore researchers updating me on the answer to my question quoting a UEFA committee meeting in seconds. :(

TheOwl

03/08/2005, 8:29 PM

In Fenlon's defence he is a very young manager. I hope he cops on and learns though instead of repeating the same mistakes his whole career. He has more European experience than practically any manager in eL history.

I think he misses Alan Matthews/John McDonnell. It may be extremely harsh to suggest but Shels "slump" (if you can call it that) has come since Eamon Collins arrived at the club.

Must say I was disappointed with the 5-man trick being repeated this year. I thought it suited our personnel last year, but I also thought the signing of Crowe would have changed that.

A face

03/08/2005, 8:33 PM

Pat Fenlon has to shoulder all of the blame.

He didn't pick the team to do the job and they lost as a result.

The sendings off were mad and alot of errors but doesn't take it away .... Shels didn't have their best possible team on the pitch for the job and Fenlon is answerable for that.

Hoolahan and Ndo .... glaring holes in Shels game and when they came on ... they proved it.

Crawley and Cahill were soo sooo bad tonight. Cahill was unreal, what a nightmare he was having .... in a game where everyone on the pitch has to put in 110% .... lord above .... never had a chance on that side.

Where is Williams ..... Fair play for playing Delaney and all credit for trying him out .... its done now ... and we all know it hasn't worked .... has he burnt the drawing board ..... Williams needed to be there tonight end of.

And there was really beatable tonight ..... has beens ... there for the taking if Shels wanted to. The scoreline was not a reflection of how that game went.

I said it last week ..... If Fenlon picked the right attacking team and played positive forward football it was possible ... he didn't pick that team ..... Shels didn't deserve anything out of it so they cant complain.

Poor Student

03/08/2005, 8:34 PM

The problem is, I felt his tactics were poor in Europe last season and they somehow luckily got by to face Deportivo. I feel perhaps this has set Fenlon back a bit in how he should approach European games tactically. Irish teams must adopt a positive attitude more like they did against Glens. In the first game a five man midfield containing Jason Byrne was stupid. If you're going to play a 5 man midfield, play 5 midfielders! You don't need to show Steaua that much respect anyway as to play one striker. Shels have a decent pair of strikers, they should have started them.

TheOwl

03/08/2005, 8:36 PM

Irish teams must adopt a positive attitude more like they did against Glens. In the first game a five man midfield containing Jason Byrne was stupid. If you're going to play a 5 man midfield, play 5 midfielders! You don't need to show Steaua that much respect anyway as to play on striker. Shels have a decent pair of strikers, they should have started them.

Spot on!

A face

03/08/2005, 8:38 PM

In Fenlon's defence he is a very young manager

Pat Fenlon played with Bohs against Bordeaux and were really unlucky to not get anything out of that game, with an unreal lineup to play against .... he was unreal himself that night and more than held his own .... all end to end ... attaching football. IF they sat back that night .... they would have been hammered.

Shels have an easier job tonight and sat back/played negative football/didn't give themselves the best chance.

Fenlon is around long enough to know what kind of a game had to be played tonight .... he failed to pick the team for it ...... it is his fault. No excuses !!

Poor Student

03/08/2005, 8:43 PM

Rosenborg were hammered 5-1 tonight by Fredrikstad. It seems they really are there for the taking. :(

hoopy

03/08/2005, 8:47 PM

pineapple stu

03/08/2005, 8:47 PM

harry crumb

03/08/2005, 8:49 PM

Vitruvian Man

03/08/2005, 9:00 PM

Are there any Longford fans who want to call for Shels to be banned from representing the country in European football again. ;)

A face

03/08/2005, 9:01 PM

Shels opponents are an average team so this 'unlucky' tag they will no doubt get is rubbish. Lack of ambition, lack of courage, call it what you like. The basic truth is that while we all(rightly) have a go at the FAI for their lack of involvement in our league, let's look closer to home at our managers (maybe not Rico this year, we'll see) who continue to put out teams to try not to lose instead of trying to win against non match fit sides. Remember that used to be our excuse when our sides were in pre season

Yeah .... have to agree with you there.

To be honest ..... if it was good football played by Shels tonight, i wouldn't mind that 4:1 scoreline .... if it was entertaining, quality football .... this 'play it safe' and 'stop the play' and 'pack the midfield' worked ... i'll give you that but the game is up now.

Shels didn't play ball and were punished. What is p!ssing me off is that (a) they didn't give themselves the best chance and (b) if they had, they could have strolled away with it, knocked two goals in and enjoy the rest of it ...... it would have been Shels fans cheering each pass at the end.

Ahh ...F�ck it anyway !!

Another thing is if we had a constructive media that could evaluate the game properly, in a balanced informed way .... the message might filter across but .... the papers tomorrow ..... have a look and just see how they report this game ..... and whats even better is looking for a motive as to why they report this way !!

pete

03/08/2005, 9:05 PM

I thought it was very strange to play Jason Byrne in midfield where he doesn't offer much. If going to play 1 forward then drop either Crowe or Byrne!

Steaua Manager again...

Even though they have yet to beat the Irish champions, Becali was in bullish mood after the draw. "Our executive president Mihai Stoica told me that Rosenborg were the most beatable seeded team in the draw," he said. "We are 80 per cent qualified for the group stage."

thejollyrodger

03/08/2005, 9:05 PM

Shels are an ok side with some good players. Steaua are better technically and better team overall. Still in saying that, we shouldnt have let in 4 goals like that.

The tatics for europe have to be looked at. Were not really a defensive team and i dont know where felon got the impression we could soak up attacking football for 80 odd minutes.

The amount of bad individual errors was unbelivable. Its like looking at rabbits caught in a headlight trying to clear the ball. There was very little composure in the side until the subs came on. Curtis Fleming may be old but he looks the business IMO. Very composed, reliable, makes few howlers.

Fenlon has to rebuild the team. The team needs serious cash to put a team together that can make it to the 3rd round. Rosenborg were there ready to be knocked out.

razor

03/08/2005, 9:11 PM

Crawley had a right "Longford" tonight, Delaney looked shaky and nervous with errors to match, Cahill ? Was he playing?
Losing Rodgers so early seemed to unsettle them though after Shels hit the post at 0-0 Steaua looked a bit nervy.
Too many non performers tonight for Shels.
Didn't hear Nutsy afterwards but I presume it went like "You can't be making those sort of mistakes at this level cos these type of teams will punish you" yada yada yada.
If Shels had been tight and hadn't made mistakes at the back it could have been 1-1.

pete

03/08/2005, 9:14 PM

Fenlon has to rebuild the team. The team needs serious cash to put a team together that can make it to the 3rd round. Rosenborg were there ready to be knocked out.

Hahahahahahaha. Funniest thing i've heard all season.

Oliy has spent a fortune this season putting together highest paid & most experienced eL squad ever! I'm sure most of that team have several years left in their contracts so don't know how you'll be able to replace.

Besides you won't be in the CL next season.

:D

Poor Student

03/08/2005, 9:16 PM

What's happened there, incidentally? If they don't get into the Group Stages this year, they could be looking at serious financial problems surely?

Valerenga won 4-1 against Haka today with Steffen Iversen and Tore Andre Flo scoring!

Basically I hear the club has been run very poorly with no attempt at changing a detiorating squad. I have no idea how Rosenborg budget or spend but I do know Shels severely screwed Hajduk financially who had banked on beating them in their budget.

pete

03/08/2005, 9:22 PM

Slash/ED

04/08/2005, 1:24 AM

Every goal was a gift but in fairness they deserved to win. If the manager is too stupid to pick people like Joey Ndo then what can you expect? Until he and Hoolahan came on we had nobody in mid field who could get on the ball and pass the thing, who wanted the ball. They changed the match but it was too little too late.

As for Crawley, he's always been sh*t, so no change there.

they were by no means anything special. With the right team and some ambition we could have taken them, no doubt whatsoever.

hamish

04/08/2005, 5:25 AM

Really sorry for you Shels guys. When Byrne's goal went in thought a drawbwas on the cards.
Those goals though - for fcuks sake - bad enough missing three centre halves but to commit hari-kiri like that??? What was Crawley playing at???
Still, some of Shels play, particularly in the second half, was enjoyable to watch and Crowe, Baker and Byrne (again) might have scored.
Commisserations lads. :ball:

Hecko

04/08/2005, 9:20 AM

To be honest, I thought $hels played well, but defensively were a shambles. Up to Delaney's mistake there was a real chance of a result.

Fleming, Ndo and Hoolahan all made a majr impact when they came on - Fair nuff about Hoolahan's fitness, but how was Fleming not on earlier, with that defence?

Cosmo

04/08/2005, 9:27 AM

fosterdollar

04/08/2005, 9:50 AM

I think the Inter Toto is gone. No European football for Shels unless Derry or Cork win the cup or they can peg back Derry.
Even if cork or derry win the cup and both come in a euro spot, the third spot will go to the cup runners-up so still no euro footie for shels. (that is, if the IC is gone)

fosterdollar

04/08/2005, 9:56 AM

Are there any Longford fans who want to call for Shels to be banned from representing the country in European football again. ;)
In fairness, they clearly put in a better performance then we did, even if it was seriously flawed in certain areas. As always, imo Heary, Hoolahan, stuey are all players who i would be proud to show off in europe. Pity Heary gave up the peno like that.
Still though, if i were to act like a lot of our detractors post last thursday, then i would take the 4-1 result and claim steaua wiped the floor with Shels :p

Slash/ED

04/08/2005, 10:35 AM

Shels deserved what they got - 4 stupid errors cost them lastnight and being negative in the first leg also cost them imo as if they had've had a go in tolka they probably would've won.

As for crawley, what a player :rolleyes: - you would expect fleming to take his place asap (but please not til after mondays game against us)

Agree on both counts.

Okay the four goals were absolute p�ss takes and, except in the case of Crawley, you can't account for that sort of thing but we never had a chance when we weren't willing to go out and do ourselves justice espically in Tolka. Should have attacked them then espically after the first half rather than sit back and let them come on to us. Ndo should have started, how he doesn't start is beyond my understanding and always will be.

Steaua are a fairly decent team but they were never creative in either leg against us, there was no cutting edge there. All goals were handed to them, any sunday league team would have put all four away bar maybe the first which was a great finish. There was no reason for us to sit back so much against them, when Hoolahan and Ndo came on it was like a different team and if anything we were in control, but we lacked the ambition espically in Tolka to do anything about it.

crc

04/08/2005, 10:40 AM

Even if cork or derry win the cup and both come in a euro spot, the third spot will go to the cup runners-up so still no euro footie for shels. (that is, if the IC is gone)
Unless its a Cork v Derry final!

wws

04/08/2005, 10:44 AM

just one comment on Ndo - he did ONE piece of skill when he came on - admittedly a juicy turn (and subsequently fluffed his cross cum shot) - his second and last contribution was to up end a marker that he let free....

its easy to exaggerate his potential like several people here do - he hints at a lot to offer - but rarely delivers in 90 minutes i find

Slash/ED

04/08/2005, 10:48 AM

He delivers ALOT more than some of the other clowns in that mid field, espically Ollie Cahill who was hopeless again.

hoops1

04/08/2005, 10:49 AM

Hate to say I told you so, but Delaney was badly exposed last night and just isnt good enough for Shels.
Between him and crawley they pretty much handed the tie away.
Dont understand why Williams was dropped becasue I cant ever remeber him causing Shels a goal and even if he did he wins Shels more games and points than he loses.
The word scapegoat comes to mind

elroy

04/08/2005, 10:49 AM

The most annoying thing about last night is that Shels could and prob should have won. I wouldnt be too harsh on Fenlon and his tactics. If he went and attacked Steaua in either leg which resulted in an early goal for Steaua we would be on his back then too.

There are however a number of glaring mistakes from the two years euro experiences.
One, Jason Byrne is wasted in midfield, the man should be played up front no matter what.
Two, Crawley, Im sure hes a nice lad but he is rubbish, I cant believe after his performances last year that he still held his place this year. If any player at any level attempted the clearance he did last night, he would be dropped. I cant remember his name but the lad who scored the first steaua goal rang rings around him in Tolka and again last night particularly the first goal. Why Fleming wasnt started last night I dont know.
Third, we're getting there, if we can continue this upward trend it is not inconceivable that an EL team will be in the group stages. Ironically despite exiting a round earlier, shels prob had a better chance of making it this year.

All in all its just a shame that two/three terrible defensive errors that would be punished in any division were made by shels last night. Tactically perhaps wasnt the best either but hindsight is a great thing. Heres to Cork City this year and prob next year in the CL :)

Sheridan

04/08/2005, 10:53 AM

We're all experts after the event, but what sticks in the craw about last night's result is that the manner of Shels' collapse was both highly preventable and highly predictable.

In the lead-up to the game, Fenlon repeated his "keep it tight for the first twenty minutes" mantra ad nauseum. Fair enough, Nutsy, but there's more to it than simply telling your players to "keep it tight." You have to realise the doctrine on the field of play. This means obstructing and disrupting your oppponents' lanes of passing (didn't happen), observing basic defensive principles, retaining possession of the ball where possible to offer your defence some relief. And if, for arcane reasons of your own, you've decided to omit the only players at your disposal who are capable of achieving this, at least instruct your forwards to run the channels rather than accepting the ball flat on the half-way line with nowhere to run and no realistic pass to play. This at least ensures that your opponents' back four will think twice before embarking upon cavalier sorties upfield with the ball at their feet.

For all that Fenlon may bemoan the misguided focus of youth development in this country and its failure to produce technically capable players (but would such players flourish in a league where every manager's vision of the ideal footballer is Jim Crawford?), we not only must, but CAN, make better use of the raw material currently available.

Poor Student

04/08/2005, 10:57 AM

The most annoying thing about last night is that Shels could and prob should have won. I wouldnt be too harsh on Fenlon and his tactics. If he went and attacked Steaua in either leg which resulted in an early goal for Steaua we would be on his back then too.

We're not asking Fenlon to attack hell for leather. Just set out with a 4-4-2, play their normal game. 5 across the midfield with 1 up front tells you and your opponents you expect them to dominate you and you're just going to soak it up. You deny yourself hugely the possibility of getting something from the game. In the first leg Crowe would often receive the ball 25-30 yards from goal isolated with no options. Possession is lost, Steaua drive forward, Shels win the ball and then it repeats. There's no point in codding himself that he's not sitting back by playing Jason Byrne in midfield. Byrne is not a good all round footballer even, he's a good striker. The attitude adopted is too negative. I don't want some ultra positive attitude. I just want them to play their game as they usually would with two very capable strikers up front.

Slash/ED

04/08/2005, 11:17 AM

You're all spot on except the criticism of Delaney is harsh, he was rubbish but he's been outstanding for us so far.

Fenlon got praise last year and deserves a hell of alot of stick this year. There is no reason why we couldn't have beaten Steaua, even with our own limiting tactics we got within a goal of winning! His team selection was wrong, his tactics were wrong and his mentality is wrong.

The annoying thing is that Steaua weren't that great, they were good but they never cut through us. We were denied the chance to do ourselves justice by his own selections and tactics. Certain players just aren't upto it but he seems to be completley blind to this while it's the skillfull players who get dropped like Ndo. His whole mentality is wrong and we can't progress in Europe while that remains the case.

wws

04/08/2005, 11:28 AM

You're all spot on except the criticism of Delaney is harsh, he was rubbish but he's been outstanding for us so far..

......if Roy Carroll made that air ball mis kick - Europe would be laughing their heads off - the criticism is deserved.....stupidity should not be rewarded or brushed aside with - "ahh thats a bit harsh" "ahh poor crawley" - they committed 4 stupid amateur level mistakes and gave Steau the tie.

No excuses. Just 4 errors.

Slash/ED

04/08/2005, 11:42 AM

......if Roy Carroll made that air ball mis kick - Europe would be laughing their heads off - the criticism is deserved.....stupidity should not be rewarded or brushed aside with - "ahh thats a bit harsh" "ahh poor crawley" - they committed 4 stupid amateur level mistakes and gave Steau the tie.

No excuses. Just 4 errors.

No I agree he deserves the criticism for his performance but people calling for him to be dropped is a bit harsh, that's his first bad game for us. If he plays like that again then he will be dropped.

As for Crawley, he's just sh*t and deserves all the criticism he gets.

bigmac

04/08/2005, 12:53 PM

I think Rosenborg got a new Manager this season...

Countries with 1 consistent League winner usually do better in Europe as the same team gets chance in CL every season. If the Norwegian league gets more competitive like the Swedish league they'll probably do worse in the CL.

No sure about that. The money that Norwegian clubs can afford to pay players is pretty high due to the high cost and standard of living here. The government just announced a 36 billion dollar surplus for the year and Valerenga are playing to pretty decent crowds week in week out. They also have a Setanta style Scandinavian competition running between the top teams in Sweden and Denmark so I think the standard will probably increase a little. Valerenga have a good shot at making group stages this year (brugge I think) and should have the strength and experience from last year to win the league. Held Newcastle to a 1-1 draw here in the UEFA cup and should have won it.
I think a likely scenario is that Valerenga will now become the dominant team in Norway. Their location in Oslo has a bigger fan base and also is more attractive for sponsorship.

Gerrit

04/08/2005, 7:15 PM

No, not Valerenga :eek: If RBK has to let go of the crown, the only team I really would like to see win it is Tromso, but as they've got no chance i'd be happy with Stavanger or Brann or Lyn or anyone but Valerenga... Too much rivalry with Rosenborg so rather see a small team win it. Then Valerenga can't enrichen itself and won't be a serious threat for RBK...

Ack, we'll take the crown back next year to where it belongs: Lerkendal ! :cool:

As for the Steaua-Shels game: gutted about the result, the only possible upside I can see is that I won't have to make any heartbreaking choice between Shels and Rosenborg.

TonyD

04/08/2005, 9:16 PM

I think he misses Alan Matthews/John McDonnell. It may be extremely harsh to suggest but Shels "slump" (if you can call it that) has come since Eamon Collins arrived at the club.

Curses, you've spotted the Pats masterplan to bring Shels down from the inside by getting Eamon Collins to Tolka :D

Seriously though, I wonder if you have a point. Collins seriously mucked up Pats, after a half decent first season in charge.

�anna

04/08/2005, 10:12 PM

Curses, you've spotted the Pats masterplan to bring Shels down from the inside by getting Eamon Collins to Tolka :D

Seriously though, I wonder if you have a point. Collins seriously mucked up Pats, after a half decent first season in charge.
I've often wondered what purpose the little twerp serves. Any time I see him he just jumps up and down going bright red on the touchline. Never seen him do anything or say anything that looked of benefit to anyone

Slash/ED

04/08/2005, 10:15 PM

I would happily get rid of Collins, I also can't see much of what he adds to the side. If at all possible get an assistant in from the continent who is experienced in the European game and could use that to help us.

thejollyrodger

04/08/2005, 10:22 PM

now there is a good idea. getting someone in from the continent who has a good knowledge of the various teams in the Champions League qualifier, they way they play etc and the best way to go about playing them. An assistant manager so to speak.

student

04/08/2005, 10:24 PM

I also can't see much of what he adds to the side. .

Well one thing is for sure; he is not there to try and calm things down. Absolute nutcase. :D :D

CollegeTillIDie

04/08/2005, 10:25 PM

Are there any Longford fans who want to call for Shels to be banned from representing the country in European football again. ;)

To put things in perspective Longford disgraced Ireland two years running, Shels on the other hand shot themselves in the foot. However losing to the Champions of Romania a club which in previous times won the European Cup(1986) and reached a final(1989) is one thing. Losing a 2-0 lead by 4 goals to a team that came 6th in the Welsh league and were only in Europe cause they lost the Welsh Cup Final is another matter entirely!

sonofstan

04/08/2005, 11:55 PM

n Valerenga can't enrichen itself and won't be a serious threat for RBK...

.

as in ' a cigarette smuggling heart enrichens the smallest club'?

elroy

05/08/2005, 10:10 AM

The most annoying thing is that if shels beat steaua they had a fantastic chance against Rosenborg. Although having said that if Rosenborg study the two games against shels it should be easy enough to pick out flaws in steaua. For one they are not very good under set pieces or high balls at the back and their main danger comes from the wings and diagonal ball.

Its a pity because it would finally make lazy arsed sky sports premiership loving 'fans' to sit up and take notice that an Irish team is good enough to make the CL group stages. Until then they dismiss their own league and throw on their EPL team jerseys in the pub. :mad: