Andrew Moran M LA (loan from Brighton) b.2003

[Demesne Lad]

Coughed up possession for each of Swansea's goals today. Taken off at halftime. Rated 4/10 by the Lancashire Telegraph.

[samhaydenjr]

A positive update from Moran - came on as a second-half sub and scored Blackburn's fifth on 81 minutes: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68652953

[JR89]

Having a medical at Stoke today ahead of his loan move

[Demesne Lad]

Having a medical at Stoke today ahead of his loan move

Brighton star Andrew Moran agrees Stoke City move - sources (footballinsider247.com) (https://www.footballinsider247.com/brighton-star-andrew-moran-agrees-stoke-city-move-sources/)

[tetsujin1979]

New contract at Brighton as well

[CSAD]

New contract at Brighton as well

That's very encouraging considering he still has 3 years left on his current deal, ran until 2027, they obviously still think very highly of him but the depth of the Brighton squad is the strongest its ever been so it was always going to be difficult to develop there.

[Razors left peg]

Will Moran and Lawal play in the same midfield? If so Stoke may have jumped to the top of important clubs to watch from our point of view this season

[CSAD]

Will Moran and Lawal play in the same midfield? If so Stoke may have jumped to the top of important clubs to watch from our point of view this season

They've interest in Tom Cannon as well.

[Razors left peg]

They've interest in Tom Cannon as well.

Jon Walters doing the lords work if true

[Eirambler]

Is this the worst possible loan move Moran could have had or have Stoke moved on in a big way from the stereotypical football you'd automatically associate with them? Because if they haven't it would be difficult to find a less suitable club for Moran, you'd fear he'd get pushed out onto the wing which isn't a natural fit for the kind of player he is, and that's if he gets regular starts at all.

[elatedscum]

Will Moran and Lawal play in the same midfield? If so Stoke may have jumped to the top of important clubs to watch from our point of view this season

Will probably end up with Lawal at centre half and Moran on the wing

[Razors left peg]

Is this the worst possible loan move Moran could have had or have Stoke moved on in a big way from the stereotypical football you'd automatically associate with them? Because if they haven't it would be difficult to find a less suitable club for Moran, you'd fear he'd get pushed out onto the wing which isn't a natural fit for the kind of player he is, and that's if he gets regular starts at all.

To be fair I think they have moved on from that, and its probably why they find themselves where they are. Will Smallbone had a very successful loan there a couple years ago so hopefully Moran will too.

[elatedscum]

3 assists so far for Andy tonight

[Razors left peg]

3 assists so far for Andy tonight

Played in the number 10 position and was excellent

[JR89]

Any chance the thread title can be updated.

[John83]

Any chance the thread title can be updated.
Done now. Thanks for catching it.

[samhaydenjr]

Surprised how far back I had to go to find this thread. Got his second goal in four appearances against Bristol City so looking promising https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/live/c2dp6103pngt

[SkStu]

Scored the opening goal today for Stoke in their 2-2 draw with Cardiff. Played the whole game. On a decent run of form too and 3 goals so far this season.

[Eirambler]

Not wanting to put a dampener on it but reports were that he was anonymous again outside of the goal (which was a rebound from close range) and Stoke's midfield continues to be their Achilles heal. Most of their supporters seem to be of the view that they would be happy enough to see him shipped back to Brighton on January 1st. While that probably won't happen, it does seem like he's not quite ready for the Championship and a loan elsewhere for the second half of the season might be no harm.

It's a shame he's just overage for the next Under 21 campaign because I think that would be a more suitable international environment for him for at least another year or two until we see if he kicks on. For now he's probably only senior squad material in times where we have a bad midfield injury situation like we did in November.

[liamoo11]

Not wanting to put a dampener on it but reports were that he was anonymous again outside of the goal (which was a rebound from close range) and Stoke's midfield continues to be their Achilles heal. Most of their supporters seem to be of the view that they would be happy enough to see him shipped back to Brighton on January 1st. While that probably won't happen, it does seem like he's not quite ready for the Championship and a loan elsewhere for the second half of the season might be no harm.

It's a shame he's just overage for the next Under 21 campaign because I think that would be a more suitable international environment for him for at least another year or two until we see if he kicks on. For now he's probably only senior squad material in times where we have a bad midfield injury situation like we did in November.

The Stoke forums seem to be against everyone at the moment. Koumas from Liverpool getting plenty of abuse as well . It really doesn't matter the key for us is he is getting experience in an unfamiliar centremidfield position where we are so lacking its likely he would improve things for us

[Eirambler]

I really don't think he would improve the centre of our midfield at all. Cullen seems to be the focus of criticism from a section of Ireland fans at the moment, but he's doing much better than Moran in the Championship. So is Jason Knight, one of Bristol's best players this season. Smallbone was standing out not too long ago in the same team that Moran is struggling in now. And in a more advanced role Azaz is absolutely miles ahead of Moran.

Moran seems to be seen as the bright shiny new thing at the moment, because he hasn't played much for Ireland yet. People always want to believe that there's better coming through than what we already have. And maybe in a few years Moran will be that player. But so far in his loans at Blackburn and Stoke he has done absolutely nothing to suggest that he should be anywhere near the Ireland midfield at this point in time. People may not like Cullen, Knight, Smallbone or Molumby. But other than possibly Taylor (and if course Azaz in a more attacking midfield role) they're the best central midfielders we have right now. My view is that if we actually start resourcing the midfield we'll see the best of them. Moran needs to be left for a couple of years to see if he can develop to the standard required, which hopefully he will do in time.

[SkStu]

Not saying he’s the answer (haven’t seen enough of him tbh) but I’m just glad to see him kicking on from last year and beginning to find his feet. Still young and lots of development ahead of him. His cameo for us was decent too.

[elatedscum]

I’d agree, his recent cameo was very encouraging. He was willing to accept the ball in tight spaces and under pressure and we probably haven’t really seen anyone do that game in, game out since Wes.

My issue with Andy has always been his consistency. He’ll have one excellent game where he’s the best player on the pitch and follow it up with a 6/10 performance where the game passes him by and his totally anonymous.

But that is something he could certainly grow out of and you’d hope he will as he matures…

[third policeman]

I’d agree, his recent cameo was very encouraging. He was willing to accept the ball in tight spaces and under pressure and we probably haven’t really seen anyone do that game in, game out since Wes.

My issue with Andy has always been his consistency. He’ll have one excellent game where he’s the best player on the pitch and follow it up with a 6/10 performance where the game passes him by and his totally anonymous.

But that is something he could certainly grow out of and you’d hope he will as he matures…

It’s also something that happens to technical players playing at Championship and below level. Sometimes better players need to be playing at a better level to show their real quality. In the same way that less technically gifted players who thrive at that level, are shown up at international level. We’ve seen a few of those in recent times.

[Exgrad]

Another loan that fizzled out by the end with Moran finishing up on the bench of a poor stoke team. Has got decent enough minutes in fairness across the season. Can't see him making the breakthrough at Brighton, and don't see point of another season long loan. Hopefully gets a decent move where next club are more invested in his progress.

[Eirambler]

He's just not cut out for it physically at all. He can go and play in Belgium or wherever and I'd imagine he'd go better there than in the Championship or League 1, but I can't see him being much use to us unless/until he fills out a bit. Obviously you can get away with that kind of physical shortcoming if you're at Messi or Modric levels of talent, but he's not at that level technically either unfortunately.

[seanfhear]

Anything to be said for a heavy course of Irish beef ?

[Jolly Red Giant]

Moran is under contract until 2028 - so unless Brighton get a decent offer he will be going on loan again next season. Again - the kid is only 21 so he does have time on his side - but he does look a bit lightweight for a midfielder and could do with buking up a bit.

[Eirambler]

Tony Bloom has just invested in Hearts, so not beyond possibility that he might end up there next season. It would be a step down from the Championship which might be what he needs. Although Hearts have traditionally been a bunch of largely physical cloggers so probably not an ideal fit for him there either.

[seanfhear]

Tony Bloom has just invested in Hearts, so not beyond possibility that he might end up there next season. It would be a step down from the Championship which might be what he needs. Although Hearts have traditionally been a bunch of largely physical cloggers so probably not an ideal fit for him there either.Playing in clogs isn't easy, fair dues to them for giving it a go !

[Predator]

The example of Angel Gomes, who is of a similar stature to Moran, might be instructive. Spent time in Portugal on loan before thriving at Lille. As his call-up by Carsley for England attests, all it takes is for the right manager to believe in you.

[Eirambler]

Pete O'Rourke linking him with a potential move to Germany or the MLS. He could disappear into the ether fairly quickly like Connor Ronan if he goes to the MLS.

[Razors left peg]

He'd better off in Bundesliga 2 than MLS

[elatedscum]

MLS is definitely out of sight, out of mind. Derrick Williams was a championship regular (captain?), in the ireland sqaud, capable of playing left back where we had no options and as soon as he moved to LA Galaxy, he was never called up again. Jon Gallagher got a MLS all star call up, alongside a host of internationals, also playing left back in our position of most need and hasn't got near a squad. Similarly, Ronan was the best midfielder for Kenny's 21s in a group that consisted of Ronan, Molumby, Knight, Taylor, Coventry and Mandriou. Yet he's the only one who hasn't been called up to a squad.

Not really sure why. Any time I've seen Ronan in the US, he's looked really good, definitely worth a look to see what he can provide.

[pineapple stu]

Ronan was called up in 2022 FWIW

But overall point remains. Yet I think there's an element too that the MLS just isn't a strong league, with a big difference between a few aging marquee players and the rest. We don't tend to call up League One players that much either

[Eirambler]

Also, in that context, Ronan's stats this season include a total of zero goals, zero assists and zero man of the match awards for Colorado, who are mid table. Futmob and Who Scored both rate him towards the lower end of their rankings of Colorado players. He seems to have regressed, if anything, since leaving Europe.

[Razors left peg]

Ive been living in the US for over 12 years now and I still cant watch MLS. I watch a lot of NBA, NFL and even some baseball but the MLS is just completely unwatchable to me. Ive tried, gone to a few LA Galaxy games, but the standard is just so bad. We know that the standard in the LOI isnt great, but theres a connection to it that makes it enjoyable to watch. The MLS is just soulless

[Colbert Report]

Ive been living in the US for over 12 years now and I still cant watch MLS. I watch a lot of NBA, NFL and even some baseball but the MLS is just completely unwatchable to me. Ive tried, gone to a few LA Galaxy games, but the standard is just so bad. We know that the standard in the LOI isnt great, but theres a connection to it that makes it enjoyable to watch. The MLS is just soulless

I'm in the exact same boat. It is muck. They need to change the rules to allow teams to bring in players without going through the centralized MLS system. I think it would really help teams that aren't spending millions on bringing in superstars to improve as they wouldn't be forced to stay within such a tight salary cap.

[SkStu]

It is the natural by-product of Americans blindly applying their own preferred sports infrastructure to a truly global game. It just doesn't work.

[Fixer82]

I'm in the exact same boat. It is muck. They need to change the rules to allow teams to bring in players without going through the centralized MLS system. I think it would really help teams that aren't spending millions on bringing in superstars to improve as they wouldn't be forced to stay within such a tight salary cap.

I love how the Yanks hate communism but with things like MLS, UFC they are so tightly centrally controlled

[Razors left peg]

I'm in the exact same boat. It is muck. They need to change the rules to allow teams to bring in players without going through the centralized MLS system. I think it would really help teams that aren't spending millions on bringing in superstars to improve as they wouldn't be forced to stay within such a tight salary cap.

They also need to introduce a football pyramid where teams can get promoted and climb the ladder. This season San Diego were brought into the league and all of a sudden there are "die hard fans" for a team that was just invented and put straight in. LAFC was the same a few years ago. Just all feels so meaningless

[SkStu]

the weird thing, and Canadians are the same, is they just do not get the attraction of the pyramid/promotion/demotion approach. I used to say things like "but how cool would it be for the Moose Jaw Warriers to play NHL if they were good enough?"; no matter who the answer is the same [blank stare]"but Moose Jaw is just not big enough to support NHL"[/blank stare]... the concept of sport as merit based v. market based is just so alien.

[samhaydenjr]

MLS is definitely out of sight, out of mind. Derrick Williams was a championship regular (captain?), in the ireland sqaud, capable of playing left back where we had no options and as soon as he moved to LA Galaxy, he was never called up again. Jon Gallagher got a MLS all star call up, alongside a host of internationals, also playing left back in our position of most need and hasn't got near a squad. Similarly, Ronan was the best midfielder for Kenny's 21s in a group that consisted of Ronan, Molumby, Knight, Taylor, Coventry and Mandriou. Yet he's the only one who hasn't been called up to a squad.

Not really sure why. Any time I've seen Ronan in the US, he's looked really good, definitely worth a look to see what he can provide.


Ronan was called up in 2022 FWIW

But overall point remains. Yet I think there's an element too that the MLS just isn't a strong league, with a big difference between a few aging marquee players and the rest. We don't tend to call up League One players that much either

I think you'd have to be a Designated Player, like Robbie Keane and Kevin Doyle were, to really merit a call up. If you're a player within the salary cap, you're only earning the same as an upper League one/lower Championship player and the question would asked why the global football marketplace doesn't value your services more. Jon Gallagher had a shot at Aberdeen, but clearly didn't impress enough for a bigger club to give him a more lucrative offer than Atlanta and Austin did

[Kingdom]

I'm in the exact same boat. It is muck. They need to change the rules to allow teams to bring in players without going through the centralized MLS system. I think it would really help teams that aren't spending millions on bringing in superstars to improve as they wouldn't be forced to stay within such a tight salary cap.

Yeah, but with the greatest of respects, you were born there you poor mite! Auld Razor choose to move there. Left the land of saints and scholars(TM) to try and connive those poor Valley strippers into 2nd & 3rd mortgages and profit from their sexy stupidity to go live it up with Jack and Leo courtside at the Staples Centre (dramatization: may not have happened

[Fixer82]

the weird thing, and Canadians are the same, is they just do not get the attraction of the pyramid/promotion/demotion approach. I used to say things like "but how cool would it be for the Moose Jaw Warriers to play NHL if they were good enough?"; no matter who the answer is the same [blank stare]"but Moose Jaw is just not big enough to support NHL"[/blank stare]... the concept of sport as merit based v. market based is just so alien.

It's like none of them have ever seen The Mighty Ducks

[Kingdom]

the weird thing, and Canadians are the same, is they just do not get the attraction of the pyramid/promotion/demotion approach. I used to say things like "but how cool would it be for the Moose Jaw Warriers to play NHL if they were good enough?"; no matter who the answer is the same [blank stare]"but Moose Jaw is just not big enough to support NHL"[/blank stare]... the concept of sport as merit based v. market based is just so alien.

You told me Moose Jaw was sexual innuendo you rascal! I daren't think what a Moose Jaw Warrior is (ooh matron!)

[Eirambler]

the weird thing, and Canadians are the same, is they just do not get the attraction of the pyramid/promotion/demotion approach. I used to say things like "but how cool would it be for the Moose Jaw Warriers to play NHL if they were good enough?"; no matter who the answer is the same [blank stare]"but Moose Jaw is just not big enough to support NHL"[/blank stare]... the concept of sport as merit based v. market based is just so alien.

I think the concept of promotion and relegation exists mostly based on it being a historical thing though. If you were setting up a new sports league in this part of the world, I'd say potential investors would be similarly put off by the idea that their team could be demoted to a level where it would no longer be possible for them to win the main competition in any given year.

Probably the nearest example involving Irish sports teams would be the Celtic League/Pro 12/URC in rugby which only came into being in the 2000s and has never had relegation. It has increased to a size where each team can no longer play each other home and away each season and they've introduced conferences as an alternative to tiered divisions, just like in North America.

[SkStu]

I wasn’t talking to investors though Eirambler. I was talking to sports enthusiasts (fan-dom is another weird culturally different thing here) who couldn’t see the attraction of a merit based system. Instead pointing to the size of a town or city dictating what level or tier they should play in. It’s strange for fans to not see the attraction, no?

I’d argue that the approach is more than just historical practice, it is rooted in the concept of sport rather than business and profit.

[Eirambler]

I don't know. If I was to put on my other sporting hat as a Connacht supporter...Connacht finished down near the bottom of the table last season. But, in 2016, they came from nowhere to win the whole thing.

Much as that's unlikely to happen again next season, if I was told that the league was being split into two tiers with promotion and relegation I'd likely be dead set against it. But, in football, where my team would be Hibs and that jeopardy already very much exists for them, I accept it. So I do think there's a historical element to it.

[SkStu]

You told me Moose Jaw was sexual innuendo you rascal! I daren't think what a Moose Jaw Warrior is (ooh matron!)

Its a bit like a Cleveland Steamer.