Republic of Ireland V Armenia - Tuesday, 27th September 2022 - UEFA Nations League

[ontheotherhand]

If you were going to sum up our issues from yesterday and other games like it:

1. We are prone to collapses, and particularly weak at conceding long shot opportunities
2. We struggle to break down weaker teams who set up to defend
3. Yesterday specifically we struggled against even 9 men and seemed to be in a panic

I think all 3 can be explained by a combination of simple things we all know:

1. We don't have a playmaker to unlock "the low block" or whatever we are calling "the bus" now, or anyone who can get on the ball when things are uncomfortable and dictate things - i.e. we don't have good midfielders.

2. We only have Cullen and Molumby to protect the back 3 when needed. To have to play Hendrick and Hourihane at this stage tells a story, i.e. we don't have good midfielders

3. Our players are all somewhat still auditioning for their positions - they are all either inexperienced players on an upwards trajectory or experienced ones on a downward one. Nobody plays with any degree of confidence bar maybe Bazunu, Collins and Cullen. Our best player is probably Cullen who is of an age now where he has experience and is settled enough. The other two are error prone still. Josh is at least wanted at club level. The rest lack confidence and it shows when things go sideways and panic sets in.

Now #3 could be a managerial issue in a way but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who can squeeze any juice out of what we've got right now. I thought Kenny might be able to get the most out of our options, as he did with so many at Dundalk, and particularly the younger ones. He has with Cullen I think. That said, he was also able to sign players for Dundalk and did so very successfully - Towell, Horgan, Hoban, McMillan etc. He may have relied more on the latter than the former.

Realistically we have one middling international level non-defender in Cullen and 0 top creative talent in midfield. Our most attacking midfielder plays right back in L1. Our strikers have been mixed but very few are settled even at their low levels. I don't see any realistic options either so this isn't an easy fix. We could go more direct but to who?

With those issues so hard to fix I just think we are in for a long run on finishing where we are seeded to finish, as we just did. We will beat the weak teams most of the time and we will occasionally give the elite teams a game. But we aren't going to be punching above our weight for the foreseeable future. Maybe someone like Even Ferguson will have a breakout year and give us a real threat up top but it's hard to see anyone reaching a really high level. The 21s couldn't even beat Israel.

[mark12345]

So this is the end of a other chapter in Irish football. Where do we go from here? Who in this squad should be cut loose (Hourihane, Hendrick, McClean?) and who should be brought in (Smallbone, Ronan, Ferguson??).

[SkStu]

After spending a long time criticizing him, I think McClean has to stay in the squad given the lack of depth we have a LB/LWB. We are also short at RWB though have some options from our deep CB pool to cover that off.

We are also strongly lacking in quality in depth in midfield, especially the 6. I don't think Coventry or Smallbone are ready to step up yet based on what i have seen of the U21s.

There is no one screaming out as significantly better than our current squad. At best, if you swap out Hourihane, you are talking a like for like - but hopefully someone young with potential and developmental upside.

There are not many players out there that make our squad demonstrably stronger.

[passinginterest]

I terms of squad changes. I think it's the end for Hourihane, Smallbone will almost certainly step up now and Coventry is probably the next most natural sitting midfielder we have available. It might be interesting to see more of the other players who have been around the fringes, like Sykes, Ronan, McGrath etc. We need to look at McNamara in terms of wing back cover, there's no depth there and not much coming through the 21s either.

Other than Hourihane, I wouldn't necessarily rule any of the other experienced players out. Probably no need to drag the likes of Coleman, Duffy, Hendrick, McClean in for the November games, we know what they offer, they're good personalities around the squad but they're the ones we need to look at replacing in the medium term.

[ontheotherhand]

So this is the end of a other chapter in Irish football. Where do we go from here? Who in this squad should be cut loose (Hourihane, Hendrick, McClean?) and who should be brought in (Smallbone, Ronan, Ferguson??).

It depends if you're willing to do even worse for a period of time or not. Kenny seems to be attempting to balance a rebuild for 2024 with getting at least decent results and performances. So he is still including the likes of Hourihane because sadly he's still a better option that anyone coming behind.

I'd love to be in a world where Ronan and Ferguson were ready but they aren't. I'd love if Jack Byrne hadn't gotten messed up by covid and his back injury but he did. Smallbone has potential. Azaz came on against Israel and looked like the best player on the park but it's the first time I've seen him.

There aren't really any good options. There won't be for a few years from what I can see. The 21s are fairly weak if we are being honest. They are the 21s equivalent of the seniors....

But on a positive note, we do have some potentially world class players now for the first time in a while. Collins and Bazunu could win us games on their own in 3-5 years time. They might even have the potential to be our best ever players in their position. That's nice to see. Ferguson is also a contender there but it's way too early to put that pressure on him.

[Jd2793]

I terms of squad changes. I think it's the end for Hourihane, Smallbone will almost certainly step up now and Coventry is probably the next most natural sitting midfielder we have available. It might be interesting to see more of the other players who have been around the fringes, like Sykes, Ronan, McGrath etc. We need to look at McNamara in terms of wing back cover, there's no depth there and not much coming through the 21s either.

Other than Hourihane, I wouldn't necessarily rule any of the other experienced players out. Probably no need to drag the likes of Coleman, Duffy, Hendrick, McClean in for the November games, we know what they offer, they're good personalities around the squad but they're the ones we need to look at replacing in the medium term.


id be surprised to see mcgrath in again if im being honest. really need smallbone + kilkenny to get a solid run of games with stoke so they are in contention for the next campaign.
sykes seems to be playing rwb at bristol, so im not sure where that leaves him.
ronan another who needs to make a permanent move somewhere half decent.

[Exgrad]

Anyone think Bazunu could have done better on the first goal, ie pushed initial shot properly out for a corner? prob being harsh.

5 of starting 11 could have been playing u21, with two others, O'Shea / Molumby, just overage. Has anything similar ever happened before with Ireland? With that profile of team you will get the lapses in concentration and inconsistency which we keep seeing. Euro qualifiers start in March i think, so all these players will have had another 6 months (hopefully) of championship and premier league football by then. Kenny will need to qualify us for Euro 2024 or he's done. A poor start and he wont see the end of the qualifiers, especially as a decent chance we'll have a play off spot regardless.

[tetsujin1979]

Anyone think Bazunu could have done better on the first goal, ie pushed initial shot properly out for a corner? prob being harsh.A little harsh IMO, he got behind the shot, and pushed it wide. It was just unfortunate that it came back off the post, if he'd put a stronger hand on it then it goes out for a corner. On the other hand, a weaker save and it spins inside the post.

Looking back at the goal on YouTube, at 0:50 below, and I think Collins needs to be held to account for his part in it.
At the start of the move from Armenia, he's standing on the half way line, leaving a huge gap on the right side of defence. By the time the first, parried, shot comes in, he's only just gotten back to the penalty area, and hasn't reset. We get lucky that the Armenian number 11 doesn't react to the ball coming back off the post, otherwise he has a tap in, but neither does Collins react fast enough to take the opportunity to put the ball out for a corner. It's hard to tell, but at 1:09 he misses the ball completely. Either it bounces under his foot, or he swings and misses. He's blocking Bazunu's view of the shot, who actually does well to get across to attempt to save it.
Why was Collins so far forward? Why had Doherty not tucked in to cover the empty space, or told Collins to get back? In a case of "missing player is better when he's not playing", Cullen would be in that space instead of Collins, so there's no need for him to push up.
And again, as has been pointed out elsewhere, it's another long range shot conceded from the right side of the penalty area, like Luxembourg, Andorra, Azerbaijan, and now Armenia - twice. Why is this such a blind spot for our defence, and management?
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5 of starting 11 could have been playing u21, with two others, O'Shea / Molumby, just overage. Has anything similar ever happened before with Ireland?
Good question, and the team against Scotland was similarly young. Let me get back to you.

[EAFC_rdfl]

Anyone think Bazunu could have done better on the first goal, ie pushed initial shot properly out for a corner? prob being harsh.

5 of starting 11 could have been playing u21, with two others, O'Shea / Molumby, just overage. Has anything similar ever happened before with Ireland? With that profile of team you will get the lapses in concentration and inconsistency which we keep seeing. Euro qualifiers start in March i think, so all these players will have had another 6 months (hopefully) of championship and premier league football by then. Kenny will need to qualify us for Euro 2024 or he's done. A poor start and he wont see the end of the qualifiers, especially as a decent chance we'll have a play off spot regardless.

That's where you need the older more experienced lads to step up, and keep reminding the younger ones about concentration & about keeping their positions. Unfortunately Hourihane, but also Doherty and Hendrick, were the complete opposite, making mistakes you'd see on a Thursday night at 5-aside with a bunch of 40 somethings!

[lofty9]

Probably no need to drag the likes of Coleman, Duffy, Hendrick, McClean in for the November games, we know what they offer, they're good personalities around the squad but they're the ones we need to look at replacing in the medium term.

Not a chance McClean will miss out, he's going for 100caps.

[passinginterest]

Not a chance McClean will miss out, he's going for 100caps.

I've no doubt he'll 100% want to be there and he more than likely will be. What I'd argue is that in terms of squad development and taking a look at alternatives, he probably doesn't need to be there and the management might benefit more from taking the chance to look at some fresh faces.

[ifk101]

Looking back at the goal on YouTube, at 0:50 below, and I think Collins needs to be held to account for his part in it.
At the start of the move from Armenia, he's standing on the half way line, leaving a huge gap on the right side of defence. By the time the first, parried, shot comes in, he's only just gotten back to the penalty area, and hasn't reset. We get lucky that the Armenian number 11 doesn't react to the ball coming back off the post, otherwise he has a tap in, but neither does Collins react fast enough to take the opportunity to put the ball out for a corner. It's hard to tell, but at 1:09 he misses the ball completely. Either it bounces under his foot, or he swings and misses. He's blocking Bazunu's view of the shot, who actually does well to get across to attempt to save it.
Why was Collins so far forward? Why had Doherty not tucked in to cover the empty space, or told Collins to get back? In a case of "missing player is better when he's not playing", Cullen would be in that space instead of Collins, so there's no need for him to push up.
And again, as has been pointed out elsewhere, it's another long range shot conceded from the right side of the penalty area, like Luxembourg, Andorra, Azerbaijan, and now Armenia - twice. Why is this such a blind spot for our defence, and management?

Who does Egan have a pop at after the goal? And why?

[tetsujin1979]

Who does Egan have a pop at after the goal? And why?
It looks like he's gesturing at Hendrick or Hourihane in front of him, quite possibly both of them. Hendrick for not getting back fast enough, he actually stops moving when the ball comes back off the post, and Hourihane for not getting across to block.

[ifk101]

It looks like he's gesturing at Hendrick or Hourihane in front of him, quite possibly both of them. Hendrick for not getting back fast enough, he actually stops moving when the ball comes back off the post, and Hourihane for not getting across to block.

Yes. They were caught out of position. Armenia came straight up the middle at us.

[tetsujin1979]

Similar to the Cullen observation - does that goal happen with Molumby on the pitch?

[pineapple stu]

Interesting analysis of Armenia's opener on the42 here (https://www.the42.ie/ireland-armenia-analysis-2-5879053-Sep2022/).

It notes that we initially lose possession with a Hourihane cross into the box where only Parrott is there, and he's offside. So a silly choice - easy to miss at the match that's what leads to the breakaway they score from, and indeed the RT? Twitter clip below doesn't start from there. There's others at fault too of course - Collins and Doherty mentioned, and I think Bazunu surely has time for a sidestep that would have made it much easier to touch the original shot around the post rather than on to it.

1574856059365298188

[ifk101]

Similar to the Cullen observation - does that goal happen with Molumby on the pitch?

Maybe as it's Hendrick's area of the pitch?, and if it's not a goal, is this not the point where Molumby gets sent off and we go down to 10 men. :-) Thinking here that when the attacker side steps Collins into the middle, he crosses Molumby's rushing back path, who duly delivers in giving him a right clatter.

[lofty9]

I've no doubt he'll 100% want to be there and he more than likely will be. What I'd argue is that in terms of squad development and taking a look at alternatives, he probably doesn't need to be there and the management might benefit more from taking the chance to look at some fresh faces.

Definitely. I'm being selfish in that I hope he will be playing with Derry when he's over the 100 and retired from International Football.

[tetsujin1979]

Combined player stats from the two games
1575223136819154944

[Bielsa´s irish]

I WATCHED the re run in Argentina because I was teaching Politics when kick off. Ireland wasnt that dominant, was more than they were so abysmal. Ireland got the 1 st goal, then was trying to get a second, the Molumby was playing well until he kicked Lucas Zelarayan, the cordob?s who plays for Armenia, yellow was a "plancha in spanish or high boot for you". Second half was similar, they were abysmal conceded the ball and pitch, Egan great pass and Obafemi who missed a sitter in first half, did the wonders, 2-0, I HAVE TO ADD that Knight and Hendrick were NOT so prominent in second half, then MOlumby was saved by the ref, he was isolated in the holding position.
I am not gonna argue Hourihane because he made a mistake because he risked a pass, before that was the horror from the first goal, Ireland in attack was 2-0 and got a goal back from a counter attack. For me Knight and Hendrick were responsible for the 1-2. Kenny should have brought another player to regain position thats why I want Ronan on the team. As Brady Liam said, the team was ok, not exceptional. For me Kenny was ok, until now, but he is not the man to carry this so passionate mad football country of Ireland Republic

[Bielsa´s irish]

by the way, the best player was Collins and he must be your new Mark Lawrenson in my opinion, Doherty showed a bit of class too. THe team somehow misses Duffy, who is a limited player and not as clever for a pass as Egan. 2nd goal of a #10 pass from Egan. Obafemi and Parrott , Parrott played better but was so low of confidence because he didnt dribble past a keeper who was already on the floor. Obafemi is like this is hot and cold, but he has that moment of brillance. Ogbene should have been brought though Robinson as a cameo player played well , he needed the BENCH !

[John83]

Combined player stats from the two games
Collins plays centre half like it's a single player game in FIFA on easy.

[Diggs246]

Combined player stats from the two games
1575223136819154944

So would it not be fair to say Brady did fine and wasn't as awful as some think?

[John83]

Brady was definitely at the races, yeah. There are fans on here who treat the national team like it's Logan's Run.

[samhaydenjr]

One quick observation - the Armenian anthem was definitely written by a cymbal player

[paul_oshea]

Combined player stats from the two games
1575223136819154944

those stats around duels, passes and passes completed just make the case further for Collins slipping into the midfield.

This article suggests the same:
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/nathan-collins-may-hold-the-key-to-irelands-midfield-malaise-42032602.html

[Jd2793]

those stats around duels, passes and passes completed just make the case further for Collins slipping into the midfield.

This article suggests the same:
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/nathan-collins-may-hold-the-key-to-irelands-midfield-malaise-42032602.html


defenders will naturally have the ball more especially if you are playing out from the back. the stats dont really make a case for him being a midfielder at all. to me he's clearly seen by kenny as our best passer of the 5 defenders so he's given the ball more often.

[tetsujin1979]

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