Foreign born but were only ever going to play for Ireland

[Fixer82]

Had this discussion a few years ago with a pal and I think we arrived at 6 players.

David Connolly
Gary Breen
Terry Phelan
Kevin Kilbane

I’m struggling now
…maybe Alan McLoughlin

Edit:
I'm not counting McGrath or the O'Learys or others who were reared in Ireland

[Olé Olé]

Paul McGrath!

[pineapple stu]

Dave O'Leary (and Pierce)

Aiden McGeady and James McCarthy too I guess

[Trequartista20]

Dave O'Leary (and Pierce)

Aiden McGeady and James McCarthy too I guess

Sarcasm, I'm guessing.

Seán Maguire. Was born in Luton to Irish parents but only spent the first two months of his life there.

[osarusan]

Wikipedia has a list of foreign-born players. Not sure how exhaustive it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republic_of_Ireland_international_football ers_born_outside_the_Republic_of_Ireland

[pineapple stu]

Shay Brennan is one who jumps out - could be wrong, but seeing as he moved back to Ireland to finish his playing career and stayed here, I get the feeling he was culturally Irish and unlikely to play for England.

Didn't even know Stephen McPhail was born in England. Curtis Fleming moved back home at a young age so he'd be similar to McGrath/O'Leary in that regard.

I suppose you could add Ogbene to that list too.

[ColourfulPeanut]

I suppose you could add Ogbene to that list too.
Ogbene was vocal about preferring to play for Nigeria when he first moved to the UK. He only declared for us after Kenny had a word with him in 2020.

[greendeiseboy]

Declan Rice....................................I'll get my coat:cool:

[Diggs246]

Alan Kelly jr

[Diggs246]

Wikipedia has a list of foreign-born players. Not sure how exhaustive it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republic_of_Ireland_international_football ers_born_outside_the_Republic_of_Ireland

Very interesting to see more guys born in Scotland then in N.Ireland played for us

[third policeman]

I noticed at least one omission. It includes Micky Walsh (Blackpool / Everton / Porto etc) bot not near namesake Mike Walsh (Bolton / Everton / Norwich...). He also got caps for us.

[CSAD]

Justin Ferizaj 😊

[Olé Olé]

Sarcasm, I'm guessing.

Seán Maguire. Was born in Luton to Irish parents but only spent the first two months of his life there.

Why is that sarcastic? I know there were issues in terms of international schoolboy v club for both lads but they showed serious mettle to stay the course with us and, those issues aside, both have spoken about how playing for Ireland was motivated by their background and families and something both lads wanted to deliver on.

[Olé Olé]

Declan Rice....................................I'll get my coat:cool:

But did he play GAA like Jackie?

[sadloserkid]

Was there not some anecdote about Phil Babb wearing an Irish jersey to school around Euro 88?

[sadloserkid]

Re: Babb - he was 17 when Euro 88 happened - never mind my musings above. 🙂

[SkStu]

Declan Rice....................................I'll get my coat:cool:

Still. Too. Soon.

I always got the impression that for Richard Keogh there was no other choice but Ireland. I think Alan McLoughlin (Fixer had question marks) is definitely another.

(great thread!)

[pineapple stu]

Was there not some anecdote about Phil Babb wearing an Irish jersey to school around Euro 88?

That was Gary Been I think

[jbyrne]

Seamus (Jim) McDonagh.
Think his story got a good mention in Eoin Hands book a few years ago.

[JR89]

Why is that sarcastic? I know there were issues in terms of international schoolboy v club for both lads but they showed serious mettle to stay the course with us and, those issues aside, both have spoken about how playing for Ireland was motivated by their background and families and something both lads wanted to deliver on.

Didn't McGeady in particular talk about the atmosphere and environment amongst the underage groups with Ireland. Always felt welcomed and liked showing up because it was a positive environment.

Compared to the reactions he would have gotten from some within Scotland because of the issues with int schoolboys vs club issue and then joining up with our underage teams at first it probably made his decision to stick with us even easier.

You also look at Rocco Vata to see how some lads in Scotland might have more affiliation to us than Scotland depending on the family. His only link to us is his mother's mother came from Ireland but Scotland would probably be his third choice.

[OwlsFan]

Mick McCarthy not mentioned ? :O

[Olé Olé]

Didn't McGeady in particular talk about the atmosphere and environment amongst the underage groups with Ireland. Always felt welcomed and liked showing up because it was a positive environment.

Compared to the reactions he would have gotten from some within Scotland because of the issues with int schoolboys vs club issue and then joining up with our underage teams at first it probably made his decision to stick with us even easier.

You also look at Rocco Vata to see how some lads in Scotland might have more affiliation to us than Scotland depending on the family. His only link to us is his mother's mother came from Ireland but Scotland would probably be his third choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSS61Deu8t8

Footage of McGeady here in an Ireland jersey as a kid and says he wanted to play for Ireland as a kid too. His father speaks very well from about 3 mins on too about it.

[Fixer82]

Alan Kelly jr

Yes, he was one of the '6'

[Fixer82]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSS61Deu8t8

Footage of McGeady here in an Ireland jersey as a kid and says he wanted to play for Ireland as a kid too. His father speaks very well from about 3 mins on too about it.

McGeady has also said in other interviews he would've played for Scotland but they never asked him.

[Fixer82]

Mick McCarthy not mentioned ? :O

Not sure McCarthy would've only chosen Ireland had he been given the option of either. He's proud of his Englishness and his Irishness. Nothing wrong with that

[TonyD]

Ogbene was vocal about preferring to play for Nigeria when he first moved to the UK. He only declared for us after Kenny had a word with him in 2020.

You sure about that ? He always seemed delighted to play for us. I thought the only hitch was waiting for his citizenship, as he wasn’t born here.

[JR89]

You sure about that ? He always seemed delighted to play for us. I thought the only hitch was waiting for his citizenship, as he wasn’t born here.

https://www.the42.ie/chiedozie-ogbene-may-2018-4034042-May2018/

By stating his intentions from the outset, Ogbene hopes that declaring his preferred allegiance will be met with understanding. With a genuine attachment to two nations, he insists it would be an honour to represent either of them. However, when he left in late 2005, Ogbene carried his dreams of playing football for Nigeria with him.

He explains: “My family comes from Nigeria, it’s in our blood and it’s where I spent the early part of my life. A lot of people tell me that I grew up in Ireland and that’s important, which it really is. I know that too and I’m not burning any bridges.

“I have to be honest too, because I may never be good enough to play with Nigeria or Ireland anyway — I still have to prove myself. We’ll see what happens if any opportunity comes, but I’m just being up front now in saying that playing for Nigeria is what I’d prefer. I love Ireland and my nationality is Irish, but playing for Nigeria is my dream.”

[tetsujin1979]

McGeady has also said in other interviews he would've played for Scotland but they never asked him.
He was brought to meet Berti Vogts at one point, but he'd already made his mind up to play for Ireland

[Fixer82]

https://www.the42.ie/chiedozie-ogbene-may-2018-4034042-May2018/

By stating his intentions from the outset, Ogbene hopes that declaring his preferred allegiance will be met with understanding. With a genuine attachment to two nations, he insists it would be an honour to represent either of them. However, when he left in late 2005, Ogbene carried his dreams of playing football for Nigeria with him.

He explains: “My family comes from Nigeria, it’s in our blood and it’s where I spent the early part of my life. A lot of people tell me that I grew up in Ireland and that’s important, which it really is. I know that too and I’m not burning any bridges.

“I have to be honest too, because I may never be good enough to play with Nigeria or Ireland anyway — I still have to prove myself. We’ll see what happens if any opportunity comes, but I’m just being up front now in saying that playing for Nigeria is what I’d prefer. I love Ireland and my nationality is Irish, but playing for Nigeria is my dream.”

Would have no issue with him if he'd chosen Nigeria. Happy to have him with us

[JR89]

Would have no issue with him if he'd chosen Nigeria. Happy to have him with us

Definitely, it's the country of his birth and he has genuine love for Ireland too. Would consider himself Irish Nigerian and you respect his honesty.

[TonyD]

https://www.the42.ie/chiedozie-ogbene-may-2018-4034042-May2018/

By stating his intentions from the outset, Ogbene hopes that declaring his preferred allegiance will be met with understanding. With a genuine attachment to two nations, he insists it would be an honour to represent either of them. However, when he left in late 2005, Ogbene carried his dreams of playing football for Nigeria with him.

He explains: “My family comes from Nigeria, it’s in our blood and it’s where I spent the early part of my life. A lot of people tell me that I grew up in Ireland and that’s important, which it really is. I know that too and I’m not burning any bridges.

“I have to be honest too, because I may never be good enough to play with Nigeria or Ireland anyway — I still have to prove myself. We’ll see what happens if any opportunity comes, but I’m just being up front now in saying that playing for Nigeria is what I’d prefer. I love Ireland and my nationality is Irish, but playing for Nigeria is my dream.”

Fair enough. Hadn’t seen that quote before. However, I think he is genuinely proud to play for us, and I love his attitude.

[elatedscum]

It’s one of those where I think if you asked him now, he’d say he’d prefer to play for Ireland. The connection that he’s created with the fans is so special and the journey has been so special that it’s gone better than he could have imagined. I think that’s often the way.

Same with Michael Obafemi. Would have been the same with Declan Rice if we’d kept him. The love you receive if you become a regular in a squad means there’s rarely regrets. Like I doubt James McCarthy or McGeady would have any regrets at this stage…

The only dudes who I think get regrets are the people who change and then don’t make the grade, like maybe a Aaron McEneff or Michael Duffy

[Olé Olé]

McGeady has also said in other interviews he would've played for Scotland but they never asked him.

I have provided evidence. Can you also? I don't believe it was that he wasn't asked. I believe it was that he wasn't permitted due to schoolboy rules. Then when he looked like he was going to make it they asked him and he said no.

[Olé Olé]

It’s one of those where I think if you asked him now, he’d say he’d prefer to play for Ireland. The connection that he’s created with the fans is so special and the journey has been so special that it’s gone better than he could have imagined. I think that’s often the way.

Same with Michael Obafemi. Would have been the same with Declan Rice if we’d kept him. The love you receive if you become a regular in a squad means there’s rarely regrets. Like I doubt James McCarthy or McGeady would have any regrets at this stage…

The only dudes who I think get regrets are the people who change and then don’t make the grade, like maybe a Aaron McEneff or Michael Duffy

And on McEneff or Duffy, maybe an NI cap wouldn't mean anything to them so maybe (probably I reckon) they have no regrets. I was in Derry recently for the first time and people I was really struck by the Irishness of it all. I found it very different to Belfast in that the city there can feel and look like a British one and has various pockets of different identities. I thought the city side of Derry was very clearly Irish and something like Derry City playing in the LOI made sense to me when I was there from a cultural and identity perspective. I could see how the like of Kone Doherty and Harkin immediately lean into our underage teams because it is natural in so many ways, including geographically in that Donegal is so nearby (which is different for Belfast too).

[Fixer82]

I have provided evidence. Can you also? I don't believe it was that he wasn't asked. I believe it was that he wasn't permitted due to schoolboy rules. Then when he looked like he was going to make it they asked him and he said no.

I haven't time to trawl the internet but first google search unearthed this. He's not exactly saying there was no question of him playing for anyone other than Ireland. Packie Bonner asked his Da and he played U14 and liked the setup so stayed with us.
The McGeadys have a stronger Irish connection than most foreign-born Irish players but I imagine he could've easily played for Scotland if their rules were different.

https://fb.watch/fGGeTh2gL-/

[Olé Olé]

I haven't time to trawl the internet but first google search unearthed this. He's not exactly saying there was no question of him playing for anyone other than Ireland. Packie Bonner asked his Da and he played U14 and liked the setup so stayed with us.
The McGeady have a stronger Irish connection than most foreign born Irish players but I imagine he could've easily played for Scotland if their rules were different.

https://fb.watch/fGGeTh2gL-/

I made a point, supported it with a video as evidence, and you made a counterpoint with no evidence to support. Sorry for not acknowledging your time restraints. I thought it was a fair ask.

[Fixer82]

I made a point, supported it with a video as evidence, and you made a counterpoint with no evidence to support. Sorry for not acknowledging your time restraints. I thought it was a fair ask.

It is a fair ask. Maybe just chill out a bit. This is not a big issue.

[Fixer82]

I think this line is pretty self-explanatory.

"Scotland had those rules that you couldn't play for your school team, but Ireland didn't.”

Scotland’s rules wouldn’t allow them pick him but Ireland didn’t have those rules. Mind made up. That doesn’t scream ‘I was never ever going to play for anyone but Ireland’ to me. Not saying he wasn’t incredibly proud to play for us but I think he’d have been just as proud to play for the Scots.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Tommy Coyne should have been brought earlier as for Bernie Slaven
Kevin Sheedy
Good old Tony Galvin the marauding winger

[Fixer82]

Tommy Coyne should have been brought earlier as for Bernie Slaven
Kevin Sheedy
Good old Tony Galvin the marauding winger

Not sure any of them were never going to play for anyone other than Ireland. Bernie Slaven has called himself Scottish in the past. Sheedy phoned up Wales FA when picked for FAI U21s to inform them. They brushed him off so that made his mind up once and for all.

Galvin I'm not sure. maybe Tony Grealish would've only chosen Ireland, not sure

[seanfhear]

How can we know for certain unless we know that they categorically turned down offers from other Countries.

[Trequartista20]

How can we know for certain unless we know that they categorically turned down offers from other Countries.

I don't think we can ever really know with absolute certainty, though I believe it's fairly safe to assume that the likes of McGrath and O'Leary identify most strongly, or even exclusively, as Irish and would only have ever have played for Ireland.

And Breen and McLoughlin, for example, actually did turn down England call-ups in order to play for Ireland. There can't be a great deal of doubt in their cases.

https://www.irishpost.com/sport/former-republic-ireland-footballer-gary-breen-second-generation-irish-euros-missed-chances-world-cup-title-8780

https://www.balls.ie/football/alan-mcloughlin-ireland-england-letters-n-international-468793

McGeady and McCarthy are granny-rulers who, in rare and fleeting instances of FAI competence, were identified and brought into the Irish set-up in early on whilst still in their early teens.

McGeady clearly states in the video posted, and other interviews, that Ireland chose him rather than the other way way round, offering him a chance to play international football when Scotland couldn't, and by the time the SFA did eventually contact him he was already comfortable within the Irish set-up. And, let's face it; unlike the Grealish/Rice situations, it wasn't as if the Scots could offer him vastly greater riches or a far better opportunity of playing in/winning tournaments than Ireland. Perhaps revealingly he also seems to identify as Scottish when talking about 'other Scottish players' like Scott Arter and Brian McLean playing for nations other than Scotland.

The fact that McGeady's half-Irish, Celtic-supporting dad bought him an Ireland jersey as a kid doesn't necessarily count for an awful lot - I believe there's a picture of a young Jude Bellingham wearing an Ireland shirt that's been doing the rounds on social media recently. Ex-Celtic Scottish internationals Tony Watt and Mikey Johnston have also been seen in Irish jerseys before.

James McCarthy is a quarter Irish through his Irish grandfather, but has explicitly stated that he would definitely have played for Scotland had they asked him first:

"If they had come in for me first I would definitely have played for Scotland,” McCarthy says. “But the way they [the SFA] put it to me [in 2006] was, well, we're not going to take you on just now, because you are not good enough.' Then Ireland came over and watched me in a game and immediately said to me, would you like to play in a game against Italy?' I said, yeh' cos I was just happy to get an international call-up. That was for their under-17s."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/james-mccarthy-ignores-fans-abuse-tlllf26p0vl

In any event, whether we were always first choice for a dual-eligibility player or not is it something I've ever been able to get really hung up over.

Tony Cascarino and Chiedozie Ogbene have no familial ties to Ireland whatever and have only been able to play for us due to the laxness and exploitability of FIFA's eligibility rules. But they've proved great additions, and can never have been said to have been anything less than 100 per cent commited any time they pulled on the green shirt.

[irishultra]

I dunno it would be strange if Ogbene couldn't play for Ireland.
Also was McCarthy not a prodigy? Scotland turning him down doesn't seem to square with his wonderkid reputation.

[elatedscum]

McCarthy was a wonderkind. Liverpool tried everything to sign him at 16. Was believed to be a really special player. Best young midfielder across England Scotland etc.

What I heard was, at age 12 or something, he promised his grandfather who he was really close to that he’d play for Ireland if he was good enough. Think his grandfather died before he could make his debut (but could be wrong about that)

[geysir]

James had plenty of opportunity and appeals to switch to Scotland before he became fully tied to Ireland (covered in 50 pages in his thread?). Regardless of how it transpired around his original choice of Ireland, he was more than content enough with that choice to refuse the many compelling requests to switch to the land of his birth, Scotland.
His story is probably true of many others, there's some undefined connection in the beginning which evolves over time into full blown commitment and appropriate identity.

[Olé Olé]

I don't think we can ever really know with absolute certainty, though I believe it's fairly safe to assume that the likes of McGrath and O'Leary identify most strongly, or even exclusively, as Irish and would only have ever have played for Ireland.

And Breen and McLoughlin, for example, actually did turn down England call-ups in order to play for Ireland. There can't be a great deal of doubt in their cases.

https://www.irishpost.com/sport/former-republic-ireland-footballer-gary-breen-second-generation-irish-euros-missed-chances-world-cup-title-8780

https://www.balls.ie/football/alan-mcloughlin-ireland-england-letters-n-international-468793

McGeady and McCarthy are granny-rulers who, in rare and fleeting instances of FAI competence, were identified and brought into the Irish set-up in early on whilst still in their early teens.

McGeady clearly states in the video posted, and other interviews, that Ireland chose him rather than the other way way round, offering him a chance to play international football when Scotland couldn't, and by the time the SFA did eventually contact him he was already comfortable within the Irish set-up. And, let's face it; unlike the Grealish/Rice situations, it wasn't as if the Scots could offer him vastly greater riches or a far better opportunity of playing in/winning tournaments than Ireland. Perhaps revealingly he also seems to identify as Scottish when talking about 'other Scottish players' like Scott Arter and Brian McLean playing for nations other than Scotland.

The fact that McGeady's half-Irish, Celtic-supporting dad bought him an Ireland jersey as a kid doesn't necessarily count for an awful lot - I believe there's a picture of a young Jude Bellingham wearing an Ireland shirt that's been doing the rounds on social media recently. Ex-Celtic Scottish internationals Tony Watt and Mikey Johnston have also been seen in Irish jerseys before.

James McCarthy is a quarter Irish through his Irish grandfather, but has explicitly stated that he would definitely have played for Scotland had they asked him first:

"If they had come in for me first I would definitely have played for Scotland,” McCarthy says. “But the way they [the SFA] put it to me [in 2006] was, well, we're not going to take you on just now, because you are not good enough.' Then Ireland came over and watched me in a game and immediately said to me, would you like to play in a game against Italy?' I said, yeh' cos I was just happy to get an international call-up. That was for their under-17s."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/james-mccarthy-ignores-fans-abuse-tlllf26p0vl

In any event, whether we were always first choice for a dual-eligibility player or not is it something I've ever been able to get really hung up over.

Tony Cascarino and Chiedozie Ogbene have no familial ties to Ireland whatever and have only been able to play for us due to the laxness and exploitability of FIFA's eligibility rules. But they've proved great additions, and can never have been said to have been anything less than 100 per cent commited any time they pulled on the green shirt.

Ogbene moved to Ireland when he was 8. I think living here and growing up here and being schooled here and playing football and gaelic football all adds up to a little more than exploitation of FIFA's eligibility rules. That's a fairly ridiculous assertion.

[Olé Olé]

McCarthy was a wonderkind. Liverpool tried everything to sign him at 16. Was believed to be a really special player. Best young midfielder across England Scotland etc.

What I heard was, at age 12 or something, he promised his grandfather who he was really close to that he’d play for Ireland if he was good enough. Think his grandfather died before he could make his debut (but could be wrong about that)

That's how the story goes. And are we sure he is only "a quarter Irish"? The grandfather referred to in the above is his maternal grandfather after all!

[Fixer82]

Cascarino’s grandfather was an O’Malley from Ireland (Mayo I think).
He didn’t realise his mother was actually adopted and so when he found out figured he didn’t qualify any more.
But I think that actually does qualify him. I think McGoldrick had a similar story before realising he still qualified anyway when he discovered his birth mother…don’t quote me on that

[Olé Olé]

Cascarino’s grandfather was an O’Malley from Ireland (Mayo I think).
He didn’t realise his mother was actually adopted and so when he found out figured he didn’t qualify any more.
But I think that actually does qualify him. I think McGoldrick had a similar story before realising he still qualified anyway when he discovered his birth mother…don’t quote me on that

You are correct. McGoldrick was adopted by the McGoldricks who had an Irish background and he states that he grew up supporting Ireland as a result but thought he didn't qualify because he knew he was adopted. Then he met his biological mother who told him that she had an Irish parent/grandparent and it all came together.

Not sure if it qualifies (I think adoption does as you say) but Cascarino used that line to sell books didn't he?

[Fixer82]

You are correct. McGoldrick was adopted by the McGoldricks who had an Irish background and he states that he grew up supporting Ireland as a result but thought he didn't qualify because he knew he was adopted. Then he met his biological mother who told him that she had an Irish parent/grandparent and it all came together.

But does adoption not qualify you also?