Foreign born but were only ever going to play for Ireland

[seanfhear]

But does adoption not qualify you also?
Despite Not being legally qualified myself ~ ~ I would have thought that an adopted child would have the same rights as a biological child ~ ~ Surely that’s what the legal stuff about adoption would be about.

Was Cascarino just using this ~ ~ ” supposedly amusing angle “ as a Hook to sell his book and to launch his media career ?

If he did = = It worked.

[jbyrne]

Despite Not being legally qualified myself ~ ~ I would have thought that an adopted child would have the same rights as a biological child ~ ~ Surely that’s what the legal stuff about adoption would be about.

Was Cascarino just using this ~ ~ ” supposedly amusing angle “ as a Hook to sell his book and to launch his media career ?

If he did = = It worked.

thats what i thought at the time. I didn't read the relevant chapter in his book in protest!
rest of the book was good though

[Trequartista20]

Cascarino’s grandfather was an O’Malley from Ireland (Mayo I think).
He didn’t realise his mother was actually adopted and so when he found out figured he didn’t qualify any more.
But I think that actually does qualify him. I think McGoldrick had a similar story before realising he still qualified anyway when he discovered his birth mother…don’t quote me on that

Interesting.

I read Cascarino's autobiography when it first came out and at least once since. It's incredibly honest, often brutally so. He's very open about his flaws and shortcomings both as a player and as a husband and father.

It's definitely one of the best sports biographies I've read, and I've read a lot.

In it he says 'I didn't qualify to play for Ireland...I was a fraud. A fake Irishman'. Though it later transpired adoption would have been enough to qualify him, I'd always believed there wasn't a genuine blood-tie to Ireland.

[Trequartista20]

Ogbene moved to Ireland when he was 8. I think living here and growing up here and being schooled here and playing football and gaelic football all adds up to a little more than exploitation of FIFA's eligibility rules. That's a fairly ridiculous assertion.

You seem to have missed my main point, which is that I don't think it matters all that much whether a player grew dreaming of playing for Ireland and whether we were his first choice, as long as he is committed and does his best on the pitch. I was simply using Ogbene as an offhand example.

I don't doubt Ogbene feels a genuine affinity for Ireland, but the point is that he was neither born in Ireland nor does he have any historical ties to the country. It is FIFA who ultimately decides on the eligibility of a player and whether he qualifies to play for Ireland, and these rules are often subject to revision and change. What school a player goes to and whether he's ever played gaelic football doesn't have a great deal of bearing on the matter. I don't think this is a 'ridiculous assertion'.

[seanfhear]

Interesting.

I read Cascarino's autobiography when it first came out and at least once since. It's incredibly honest, often brutally so. He's very open about his flaws and shortcomings both as a player and as a husband and father.

It's definitely one of the best sports biographies I've read, and I've read a lot.

In it he says 'I didn't qualify to play for Ireland...I was a fraud. A fake Irishman'. Though it later transpired adoption would have been enough to qualify him, I'd always believed there wasn't a genuine blood-tie to Ireland.
Surely ~ Legal adoption would make a blood tie, moot / not necessary / irrelevant.

[Trequartista20]

Surely ~ Legal adoption would make a blood tie, moot / not necessary / irrelevant.

I'm not sure. Legally speaking an adoptive parent or guardian is to all intents and purposes the same as a biological parent, certainly as far as eligibility is concerned, I'd imagine.

[JR89]

Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, if a child who is not an Irish citizen is adopted by an Irish citizen or a couple where either spouse is an Irish citizen, then the adopted child shall be an Irish citizen.

If an Irish citizen who is living abroad adopts a child abroad, they should apply for the adoption to be entered in the Register of Intercountry Adoptions. Once it is registered, the adoption has the same legal status as if the adoption was made in the State.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html#le 962d

[Fixer82]

Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, if a child who is not an Irish citizen is adopted by an Irish citizen or a couple where either spouse is an Irish citizen, then the adopted child shall be an Irish citizen.

If an Irish citizen who is living abroad adopts a child abroad, they should apply for the adoption to be entered in the Register of Intercountry Adoptions. Once it is registered, the adoption has the same legal status as if the adoption was made in the State.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html#le 962d

So then Cascarino wasn't a fraud at all.
Also, growing up with his Grandad I would say gave him a sense of Irishness that many others who've lined out for us in the past didn't have.

[Eirambler]

The only part of the Cascarino story that was a fraud was that he used his claim that he wasn't Irish qualified to sell his book. Which is a shame as the book was good enough to sell itself without the lie (I'd recommend any Irish supporter that hasn't read it picks it up).

But it was always obvious that Cascarino qualified to play for Ireland. The issue of adoption has no bearing on national eligibility.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Tony Galvin would only play for Ireland as Chris Hughton, too

[seanfhear]

How do you know ? ~ Did they turn down offers to play for England ?

[brine3]

Ogbene moved to Ireland when he was 8. I think living here and growing up here and being schooled here and playing football and gaelic football all adds up to a little more than exploitation of FIFA's eligibility rules. That's a fairly ridiculous assertion.

Yeah grew up in Ireland and became, I am quite sure, full Irish citizen.

If he can't play for Ireland then nobody can!

[brine3]

You seem to have missed my main point, which is that I don't think it matters all that much whether a player grew dreaming of playing for Ireland and whether we were his first choice, as long as he is committed and does his best on the pitch. I was simply using Ogbene as an offhand example.

I don't doubt Ogbene feels a genuine affinity for Ireland, but the point is that he was neither born in Ireland nor does he have any historical ties to the country. It is FIFA who ultimately decides on the eligibility of a player and whether he qualifies to play for Ireland, and these rules are often subject to revision and change. What school a player goes to and whether he's ever played gaelic football doesn't have a great deal of bearing on the matter. I don't think this is a 'ridiculous assertion'.

He's an Irish citizen, FIFA have nothing to do with it.

[Fixer82]

He's an Irish citizen, FIFA have nothing to do with it.

Correct!

[Paddy Garcia]

How do you know ? ~ Did they turn down offers to play for England ?

Hoddle made a big play to presuade Hughton to play for England.

[Paddy Garcia]

How do you know ? ~ Did they turn down offers to play for England ?

Hoddle made a big play to presuade Hughton to play for England.

[Bielsa´s irish]

yes as for good old Tony Galvin it is in archives that he was mocked several times for being irish with teammates from ENGLAND

[texidub]

Galvin.. there's a blast from the past. Great player on his day. He was also the intellectual in the squad at that time with a degree in Russian, I think.. at least that's what the match programme used to say :)

[pineapple stu]

Yep - that great story that he was listening in on the tactical info from the USSR bench at Euro 88 and translating everything back for us

[Bielsa´s irish]

good old Tony Galvin was so good that Jack waited until late in 1990

[Fixer82]

good old Tony Galvin was so good that Jack waited until late in 1990

This sentence confuses me

[seanfhear]

This sentence confuses me
And the rest of Bielsa doesn’t ? ? ?

[Fixer82]

And the rest of Bielsa doesn?t ? ? ?

Good point, well argued!

[seanfhear]

Tony Galvin did use his education after football ~ ~ He is now a, Quality Manager for the Learning and Skills Council, ( In London I presume )

[Bielsa´s irish]

This sentence confuses me

WAITED for him for the WC 1990 , but he couldnt make it was recovering from a big injury , I think he was invited as a guest for the IRELAND national team in Italy, but i believe he rejected that invitation

[SkStu]

WAITED for him for the WC 1990 , but he couldnt make it was recovering from a big injury , I think he was invited as a guest for the IRELAND national team in Italy, but i believe he rejected that invitation

pretty sure that was Gary Waddock.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Galvin. Waddock was replaced by The late McLaughlin

[SkStu]

Galvin didn't attend 1990 because of injuries. He was touch and go if i recall correctly. He may have been invited as a guest i suppose, just dont remember or hadnt read it since.

Waddock was definitely asked to stay with the squad as a guest when JC brought in Alan McLoughlin but turned it down.

[Fixer82]

Galvin didn't attend 1990 because of injuries. He was touch and go if i recall correctly. He may have been invited as a guest i suppose, just dont remember or hadnt read it since.

Waddock was definitely asked to stay with the squad as a guest when JC brought in Alan McLoughlin but turned it down.

Correct.

And apparently a lot of the squad weren?t happy at Waddock being replaced at the 11th hour.
McLoughlin felt the vibes.

I guess coming on against England and being involved in the goal probably helped his cause

[Fixer82]

Actually just watched it back and he had nothing to do with the goal. He did come on against the Brits though and I think did ok

[Paddy Garcia]

Correct.

And apparently a lot of the squad weren?t happy at Waddock being replaced at the 11th hour.
McLoughlin felt the vibes.

I guess coming on against England and being involved in the goal probably helped his cause

Jack regretted taking Stapleton - in hindsight would have taken Waddock & McLoughlin.

[Fixer82]

Jack brought 7 strikers I think. Absolute madness!

[Trequartista20]

Looking back it seems strange that arch pragmatist Jack didn't leave one of those forwards out in favour of an extra midfielder - especially when Houghton and Whelan were injury doubts.

I've previously read that Birmingham-born Gerry Peyton turned down an approach from Don Revie to play for England U-21 in favour of playing for Ireland, so he's another one who can be added to the list.

[Fixer82]

Looking back it seems strange that arch pragmatist Jack didn't leave one of those forwards out in favour of an extra midfielder - especially when Houghton and Whelan were injury doubts.

I've previously read that Birmingham-born Gerry Peyton turned down an approach from Don Revie to play for England U-21 in favour of playing for Ireland, so he's another one who can be added to the list.

Was that a pragmatic decision or a decision from the heart though? I'm happy to add him to the list though. What are we at now? 7?

[third policeman]

Looking back it seems strange that arch pragmatist Jack didn't leave one of those forwards out in favour of an extra midfielder - especially when Houghton and Whelan were injury doubts.

I've previously read that Birmingham-born Gerry Peyton turned down an approach from Don Revie to play for England U-21 in favour of playing for Ireland, so he's another one who can be added to the list.


I don't think that's true. I think he was first approached by us when at Burnley and initially turned us down hoping for an England call-up. It was several years later, when it was clear that he was not going to be selected by England ( and I think playing at a lower level) that he accepted the Irish call-up. This is al from memory, so far from infallible.

[sadloserkid]

Made his Irish debut at 20, no? So the several years later part seems a bit unlikely anway.

[third policeman]

Made his Irish debut at 20, no? So the several years later part seems a bit unlikely anway.

If that?s the case I?m wrong. Where did you find that about him making debut when he was 20?

[SkStu]

This would appear to support it. Made his debut in February 1977 - a friendly against Spain; competitive debut in October 77. Spanish game would have him at 20 years old.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/gerry-peyton/nationalmannschaft/spieler/104115/verein_id/3509

[Trequartista20]

I couldn't find the article I originally referred to, but I was going through the Times archive last night and it confirms that Peyton was called up to the England U-21 squad in December 1976 and turned down the opportunity in order to persue his ambition to play for Ireland.

He was called up by Giles two months later.

[third policeman]

It's a long time ago, but so strange that my recollection of the sequence was completely the other way round. I guess that's what aging does to you.