Republic of Ireland V Ukraine - Wednesday, 8 June 2022 - 2022/23 UEFA Nations League

[joey B]

At the time watching it on tv I thought it was a penalty but watching it again it looks like Robinson kinda catches his foot in the turf and is going down before getting caught in the back of his leg…..

[paul_oshea]

Watching the penalty incident from the first half last night again. This was straight down from where I was sitting, and at the time I thought it was a clear penalty.
However, does the defender get a slight touch on the ball at 3:09, and then catch Robinson? There's a better look at 3:14
1534621512107433989

That's how I saw it first, but then on other replays it looked like he got his foot and the ball, but even so, robinson was falling when he then hit the back of his calf. And we got away with a clear one second half so I wouldnt be too worried about it.

[SkStu]

But it started the same as it is now. For me nothing has changed in style or how we play bar holding the ball for longer - and thats been there from day one but that's all that's been there - since Mccarthy or even O'Neill, we have worse shape, are more likely to concede against weaker opposition and our scoring threat is still minimal. But at least under the other two bar the Denmark home game under Oneill we had structure and shape and the players clearly knew their roles. We never looked out of our depth really with the others, holding our own, we just looked very limited. I never fell for this passing it around the back sideways in our own half thinking this was anything other than a fools version of possession football with neat passing ability. However desperate we were to see good football, that wasn't it and shouldn't have muddied anyone's thinking, hoodwinked or fooled anyone whos watched football over the years.

Paul, i dont know how to explain it to you any better than i already have. You had a cut at me for changing my opinion on Kenny vs two years ago. I explained why my opinion had changed. I didn't claim that performances had changed which is where you seem to be confusing yourself. I have, and you know this, always said that his reign should be evaluated after at a minimum of two years. That the transition to a younger squad would take that long, at least, and that we should look for signs.

If you split the Kenny era to date into 3 chapters... chapter 1 was a downward trajectory (the task ahead of him and his job as a new international manager during covid was difficult - i felt it was something that made a difficult job even more difficult), chapter 2 was an upward trajectory (not perfect but improving - it bought him some goodwill). Chapter 3 (Armenia onwards) seems to be a massive step back downwards while my expectations are that the upward trajectory would continue and actually improve. It hasnt and there are zero signs that it will. The tide has turned completely for me.

Why is that not reasonable? I think the above is about as fair an approach as anyone could take to assessing a new manager and his performance based on the task that was in front of him.

Again, i will ask, would you prefer it if i had dug my heels in at this stage due to pride or disappeared completely like some?

[ontheotherhand]

Paul, i dont know how to explain it to you any better than i already have. You had a cut at me for changing my opinion on Kenny vs two years ago. I explained why my opinion had changed. I didn't claim that performances had changed which is where you seem to be confusing yourself. I have, and you know this, always said that his reign should be evaluated after at a minimum of two years. That the transition to a younger squad would take that long, at least, and that we should look for signs.

If you split the Kenny era to date into 3 chapters... chapter 1 was a downward trajectory (the task ahead of him and his job as a new international manager during covid was difficult - i felt it was something that made a difficult job even more difficult), chapter 2 was an upward trajectory (not perfect but improving - it bought him some goodwill). Chapter 3 (Armenia onwards) seems to be a massive step back downwards while my expectations are that the upward trajectory would continue and actually improve. It hasnt and there are zero signs that it will. The tide has turned completely for me.

Why is that not reasonable? I think the above is about as fair an approach as anyone could take to assessing a new manager and his performance based on the task that was in front of him.

Again, i will ask, would you prefer it if i had dug my heels in at this stage due to pride or disappeared completely like some?

That'd be my take as well. Been away for a few weeks so I actually missed most of the two games but....you can't lose to Armenia and not follow it up with a good result against a weakened Ukraine. Anyone with the knives out for Kenny earlier had an agenda imop. None of this "can't come from the LoI" stuff is in any way reasonable. Of course good players and managers with international potential will come from the LoI. Plenty in the team have. That said, many were right to lambast the earlier results but at the same time I was always of the opinion he deserved more time to get his points across. It did look like things were starting to click but I don't think it's going to at this point so anyone who continues to support him now has a bit of an agenda I think as well. He's had time, he has enough decent players to get past the likes of Armenia and he has failed multiple times now. The only thing you might say is that the Nations League is absolutely uninteresting for our players but I don't think that's the case. Plenty of them should be out there trying to prove a point for the benefit of their own club careers. I suppose it might help if we had a midfield but there's enough decent pros in there to get results against the dross.

My initial take was that we likely couldn't afford much better and it was worth taking a punt even if I wasn't a huge Kenny fan. I knew it was going to be painful regardless of who was manager and I preferred sucking it up and grinding through until the younger lads developed. At this point we can probably afford better though.

The funny thing is, I thought that if he failed he'd fail because he lost the dressing room as he did with Rovers. He seems to have the dressing room but to have forgotten what made his Dundalk side successful. He got great performances out of very average players. The likes of Shields etc were nobodies he turned into top players in the league. And they were direct and quick with the ball. We aren't direct enough by half and we make silly defensive errors. It's like he decided to stick with the passing game to prove a point.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Have backed the Kenny experiment all the way. Felt it was worthwhile to change approach and bed in some new guys when we had little other choice. Enjoyed seeing us pass the ball, keep it a bit, and create a few chances per game. It was nice when we got a couple of wins last year to lift the gloom. But for whatever reason after tonight I feel I'm done with this regime now. I hate football supporters who have the knives out early and are all I told you so when things inevitably go south. We can criticise but we support first and foremost. But the time is up on Kenny now in my opinion. Not sure what the next step should be but there needs to be a change.


Watching the penalty incident from the first half last night again. This was straight down from where I was sitting, and at the time I thought it was a clear penalty.
However, does the defender get a slight touch on the ball at 3:09, and then catch Robinson? There's a better look at 3:14
1534621512107433989


wasnt a Penalty, the Ukranian kicks the ball first too, Robinson wasnt in possession yet, on the team for SATURDAY well I just cant select new players but I would take the ones from the under 21 , and will make this team if everyone is available

----------------------------------------- Kelleher-------------------------------------

Collins Duffy Egan if injured Manning

Ogbene/Molumby Cullen/Browne Hendrick/Hourihane McClean /Manning


Knight/Parrott


Hogan/Keane Obafemi

from the players availables, if it were up to me I would go with these guys without the injured players



-----------------------------------------Kelleher--------------------------------------------------


Lee OConnor Egan Scales/OShea Manning


Collins James McCarthy


Gallagher Ogbene


Parrott Shane Long

[Razors left peg]

The u21s have a game on Tuesday where they could win automatic promotion to the Euros... but you would take players from that squad?

[pineapple stu]

Scales, Long and McCarthy I presume is Spanish for "I'm not even trying to hide the fact I'm taking the ****"

[Bielsa´s irish]

Have backed the Kenny experiment all the way. Felt it was worthwhile to change approach and bed in some new guys when we had little other choice. Enjoyed seeing us pass the ball, keep it a bit, and create a few chances per game. It was nice when we got a couple of wins last year to lift the gloom. But for whatever reason after tonight I feel I'm done with this regime now. I hate football supporters who have the knives out early and are all I told you so when things inevitably go south. We can criticise but we support first and foremost. But the time is up on Kenny now in my opinion. Not sure what the next step should be but there needs to be a change.


Scales, Long and McCarthy I presume is Spanish for "I'm not even trying to hide the fact I'm taking the ****"


No, I like those players, Scales and McCarthy are playing for a winning side, playing little but for philosophy attitude they will start for me, Celtic plays good expansive style, and Long what we have from Niall Quinn to be around, if Idah is injured Long is the only fellow who could be an asset upfront to lead the line


I cant pick the injured players like Ronan, Doherty etc dont know McGrath, which players are injured for these games that would have been called up? Of course I like Smallbone he is similar to Knight and his assets,

[tetsujin1979]

Last warning Bielsa, use the edit button

[pineapple stu]

Scales and McCarthy are barely making the bench for a winning side

[pineapple stu]

Gibraltar 1-1 Bulgaria this evening in League C.

Bulgaria have two points from games against North Macedonia, Georgia and Gibraltar.

An unnerving vision of where we might be headed, given how close the games between us and Bulgaria last time were

[TrapAPony]

Gibraltar 1-1 Bulgaria this evening in League C.

Bulgaria have two points from games against North Macedonia, Georgia and Gibraltar.

An unnerving vision of where we might be headed, given how close the games between us and Bulgaria last time were

That is they way we are heading under Stephen Kenny for sure - freefall. No other manager would be given the amount of chances he has been given. I still think we will finish 3rd in our nations league group over Armenia in the finish but that is only if Kenny gets shown the door.

[Bielsa´s irish]

That is they way we are heading under Stephen Kenny for sure - freefall. No other manager would be given the amount of chances he has been given. I still think we will finish 3rd in our nations league group over Armenia in the finish but that is only if Kenny gets shown the door.


of course something is missing in the 3-4-3 is not producing attacks nor scoring

if you play that you need a true 9 to lead the line -

I say if you play 3 at the back then play 6 in midfield an a 9

an idea could be with the players availables today the following:

1- Kelleher
2- Molumby
3-Oshea
4.Duffy
5. Egan
6 Collins
7 Knight
8 Cullen
9-Hogan/ Will Keane
10 Obafemi
11Manning

..........Kelleher.......

Egan duffy Oshea

Molumby Collins Manning

Cullen Knight

Obafemi

Keane/Hogan

[paul_oshea]

Paul, i dont know how to explain it to you any better than i already have. You had a cut at me for changing my opinion on Kenny vs two years ago. I explained why my opinion had changed. I didn't claim that performances had changed which is where you seem to be confusing yourself. I have, and you know this, always said that his reign should be evaluated after at a minimum of two years. That the transition to a younger squad would take that long, at least, and that we should look for signs.

If you split the Kenny era to date into 3 chapters... chapter 1 was a downward trajectory (the task ahead of him and his job as a new international manager during covid was difficult - i felt it was something that made a difficult job even more difficult), chapter 2 was an upward trajectory (not perfect but improving - it bought him some goodwill). Chapter 3 (Armenia onwards) seems to be a massive step back downwards while my expectations are that the upward trajectory would continue and actually improve. It hasnt and there are zero signs that it will. The tide has turned completely for me.

Why is that not reasonable? I think the above is about as fair an approach as anyone could take to assessing a new manager and his performance based on the task that was in front of him.

Again, i will ask, would you prefer it if i had dug my heels in at this stage due to pride or disappeared completely like some?

I didn't have a cut, I was trying to understand how you could change your opinion given its the same fare being dished up. I assumed it was because the results had gotten worse, not stayed the same or even got better so that's fair enough. If you pointed out failings at the start and I missed them then fair enough, but what I seem to remember was the things you pointed out as positive are the same things we are doing now and I dont remember anything particularly negative.

I would say there arent really any chapters to split into we did have a couple of decent results Portugal home and Serbia but on another day Serbia could have been 3 up and out of sight and we are having those other days losing to Armenia, luxembourg etc.

Definitely not that wasn't my suggestion and its absolutely not my place to say who should be quiet or disappear or whatever nor anyone else personally I enjoy your contribution. Happy to move on now : )

[Stuttgart88]

If you split the Kenny era to date into 3 chapters... chapter 1 was a downward trajectory (the task ahead of him and his job as a new international manager during covid was difficult - i felt it was something that made a difficult job even more difficult), chapter 2 was an upward trajectory (not perfect but improving - it bought him some goodwill). Chapter 3 (Armenia onwards) seems to be a massive step back downwards while my expectations are that the upward trajectory would continue and actually improve. It hasnt and there are zero signs that it will. The tide has turned completely for me.Exactly this.

[zero]

That is they way we are heading under Stephen Kenny for sure - freefall. No other manager would be given the amount of chances he has been given. I still think we will finish 3rd in our nations league group over Armenia in the finish but that is only if Kenny gets shown the door.

I'd say we're already there... I wouldn't fancy us to beat Gibraltar away. We're one of the worst sides in Europe at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if we lost all six nations league games.

We'll likely finish on max 4 points. 2 might be more realistic.

[elatedscum]

That Ukraine game was the least like a home game atmosphere I’ve ever felt. Fair play to the FAI for giving Ukrainian refugees tickets but there had to be a third of fans there supporting Ukraine (i know in my section, it was 50-50) and cause they were densely populated behind the goal, they felt even louder than they were.

Also felt like the ref was allowing the goodwill towards Ukraine impact his decisions. All the front three were regularly fouled without free kicks being given. Clear yellow cards weren’t given. It really didn’t make it easy.

I’m not saying this as excuses, merely observations.

[tetsujin1979]

Damien Delaney breaks down the Ukraine goal
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[joey B]

Damien Delaney breaks down the Ukraine goal


I’m not sure about him absolving Kelleher of any of the blame,from giving away the stupid free in the first place to the keeper there’s plenty of blame to go around….

[pineapple stu]

I think it's fairly reasonable - it's a great cross in and I don't see that Kelleher can come for it. Then there's three people jumping at the ball in front of him (two of whom - Duffy and Egan - fall over for some reason) which makes it very hard to predict where it's going to end up. I hadn't realised at the game that he'd gotten a hand to it; I thought it had gone straight in.

I know some are saying he should be dropped for it; I think that's incredibly harsh. That sort of goal has been scored before and you'd struggle to find a keeper who was dropped for it.

[joey B]

I think it's fairly reasonable - it's a great cross in and I don't see that Kelleher can come for it. Then there's three people jumping at the ball in front of him (two of whom - Duffy and Egan - fall over for some reason) which makes it very hard to predict where it's going to end up. I hadn't realised at the game that he'd gotten a hand to it; I thought it had gone straight in.

I know some are saying he should be dropped for it; I think that's incredibly harsh. That sort of goal has been scored before and you'd struggle to find a keeper who was dropped for it.

I suppose with the very best keepers they seem to be able to dig out defenders where mistakes are made,a few keeper heads reckon he’s to far over as his starting position,but I’m no expert in it,guess it’ll be analysed more because it was the only goal in the game….

[SkStu]

I think it's fairly reasonable - it's a great cross in and I don't see that Kelleher can come for it. Then there's three people jumping at the ball in front of him (two of whom - Duffy and Egan - fall over for some reason) which makes it very hard to predict where it's going to end up. I hadn't realised at the game that he'd gotten a hand to it; I thought it had gone straight in.

I know some are saying he should be dropped for it; I think that's incredibly harsh. That sort of goal has been scored before and you'd struggle to find a keeper who was dropped for it.

I dont think he should be dropped for it (or that it is a drop-worthy error in its own right) but he definitely could have taken a step further to his right and trusted his two covering CBs to do their job against one. A little more situational awareness and peripheral vision maybe. The scrutiny that many have placed on Bazunu means that Kelleher should be subjected to the same. I think you are going a little easier on him than you have on Bazunu :)

[pineapple stu]

Funny, I think people are going a lot harder on him than they did on Bazunu! :p

Was it NeverFeltBetter who said Kelleher "had to be stopping" the Armenia goal? But don't remember the same being said at home to Azerbaijan for example. You can probably always pick up on some level of error in every goal, but was he really "awful", as Stutts says? I don't think so.

Anyways, I think our problems are very much at the other end of the pitch, and if Travers comes in to reward him for a decent season or even just for showing up for the four games, I've no issues with that. But I think some of the criticism of the goal has been excessive, and glad to see a seasoned pro agree.

[SkStu]

I was being a bit mischievous there alright :)

I don't think Kelleher has been awful by any stretch to be honest and there wasnt much he could have done about the Armenian goal. A complete thunderbast@rd of a shot. I do agree with Stutts that he looks awful small in the goals though. Personally, I think Bazunu has had the more impressive performances overall but, conversely, has played in games where he simply had more to do.

And i wholeheartedly agree that goalkeeping quality is not the problem with the team and performances.

Anyway, I had my fun and thats all that matters.

[Insidetherock]

I dont think he should be dropped for missi ng the cross.. I think he shouldn't have started above Travers in the first place. Travers has played a lot more time than Kelleher this year, and will likely play a lot more at a higher level tgan him next season too

[tetsujin1979]

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