WUFC to fold

[Partizan]

Its on the btid message board. Waterford United has only 1 week left.

www.btid.net

[Troy.McClure]

That would be a shame












PS You'll have to change your signature so :cool:

[EnDai]

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[gael353]

quote Patizan from waterford messege board, there is no other nention of it.
"The Club will fold in the next week.
No money is coming in and the people of Waterford have turned their backs on the Club. I said it in '98 that the PLC was a bridge too far and looks as if the chickens have come home to roost. I think Martin and Jim have left it too late.
What is even more disturbing is the this Club is going under with a wimper. Nobody gives a ****.

God I hope I'm wrong."

course we care about waterford united but it has to be said that ye made ye're own bed so.....

[Danny]

Just been on today fm that the manager has quit

[Bald Student]

I still don't understand the finances involved here. It was reported that when yee sold Murphy the income went into paying off your debts.

If the club has little or no debt and simply can't meet day to day expences from income then surley yee just need to cut back your expences accordingly.

That said, if Partizan is the only source of this information, I'll wait untill I hear it confirmed before getting too worried.

[hoops1]

i think your slightly over reacting there
sure there is playing problems and money problems
but out of business is a bit over the top
back to the first division maybe but they can always rebuild

[Lionel Ritchie]

i think your slightly over reacting there
sure there is playing problems and money problems
but out of business is a bit over the top
back to the first division maybe but they can always rebuild

exactly hoops. Limerick survived on less than no money for a long time. Not exactly swimming in it now either but went through a phase or three of players car pooling to games (managed to win a league cup doing it!!!)

Best of luck to Waterford United however it works out. We'll never forget who's shirts we've on. :cool: (like ye'd let us ;) )

[Passive]

It would be an absolute tragedy for WUFC to fold and I really do hope the situation can be avoided. But it goes to show the cronic mismanagement of EL clubs. Rovers would be in liquidation right now if it wasn't for the efforts of the 400 Club. Sadly for WUFC, there doesn't seem to be a 400 Club there.

Clubs are living in financial la-la land. We are now well on the way to sorting our finances out and living on a realistic footing. Unfortunately, I think a few clubs are going to be very badly stung over the next few months. It took us years to wake up to the fact that the sums didn't add up, and I worry that other supporters are being led very blindly by their respective boards. There is one club that we all know and love where the sums definitely do not add up, yet very few of their supporters seem alarmed. That's dangerous, especially with Revenue suddenly declaring interest in several million euro in missing tax.

[pete]

It does seem that no real local uproar when ye started to get into trouble.

Did O'Brien take money from the Murphy sale? IMo as a former Director who loaned the club money he shouldn't got a cent similar to the Rovers Directors.

Surely waterford can offload more players & rbing in amateur players in a bid to break even weekly?

:confused:

[tiktok]

I genuinely hope this isn't true Partizan.
From where I stand it doesn't seem that your problems are as great as Rovers were, are their debts? How big? Are fans prepared to knuckle down.

As has been said, why go out of business, christ sell everybody and play the kids to keep costs down, get relegated and rebuild in Div.1, you've come to far to go so quietly.

If there's anything fans from other clubs can do to help, post it up here, god knows Rovers got enough support, it should be offered in kind to yourselves.

[wws]

ITS SO OBVIOUS - well summed up passive - to think that there are deluded muppets out there who actually hold up clubs overspending and getting into serious debts as success stories - they are not


and the party always ends in the inevitable hangover


one of the main things I hate about all the el message boards is the inability of the posters to grasp one fundamental fact - el football does not generate the revenue streams to match its current cost structure - in fact nowhere does it even come close


cloud cuckoo land and voodoo economics

[hamish]

Hope it isn't true.

[showry]

i think your slightly over reacting there
sure there is playing problems and money problems
but out of business is a bit over the top
back to the first division maybe but they can always rebuild
that's what i've been asking on the message board,
the worst case scenario is we get some local lads in and get relegated, it's happened before, unless there's something fundamental we're not being told

[drinkfeckarse]

Would be terrible for the league to lose all that history. Surely this is worst case scenario??

[hamish]

Hope it isn't true.

[jorge]

I know the FAI does'nt 100% run the League but they have to see what the story is when a club starts to cut costs or when they anounce they are having financial difficoulties.
In Waterfords case they should have looked at their books when all this started.

[wws]

when all this started jorge....ie when it was all too late - the fai have turned a blind eye to clubs over spending with money they dont have - they have no enforcement regs in this area

[WeAreRovers]

There is one club that we all know and love where the sums definitely do not add up, yet very few of their supporters seem alarmed. That's dangerous, especially with Revenue suddenly declaring interest in several million euro in missing tax.

According to the Revenue there are at lest 16/17 clubs in serious trouble and it could be up to 20. The only clubs that are definitely safe are Rovers and Derry.

Harps, Galway, Kilkenny and Sligo are probably alright but rest assured the Revenue are really píssed off and are out for blood. The ignorant bliss that Shels fans are living in is about to be shattered. Reality is just around the corner.

KOH

[Xlex]

there seams to be no end to these scares, realistically, partizan believed WUFC stood to earn a windfall of 1 million euro out of winning the cup, wow I don't believe Partizan made that up but was that indicitive of the sort of yarns the board were coming out with?

Hopefully there's an end to this madness...

[jorge]

when all this started jorge....
After Darryl Murphy was sold. :eek: Thats when it became a plublic :eek:

[exile]

does anyone know what exactly happens in regards to when a club folds i.e points yellow/red cards etc , do the teams that played them get points theirdeducted?

its begining to look like the el is going to end this in some wierd court saga :confused:

[EnDai]

The ignorant bliss that Shels fans are living in is about to be shattered. Reality is just around the corner.

Always always dragging Shels into it. In a thread about Waterford no less. Not content with simply saying that there are clubs in trouble, you start to have a go at Shels, a club in which people, myself included, were prepared to hand over money from our own pockets if it was needed to ensure the survival of Rovers. Cheers, if everyone there is as bitter as yourself I'll not bother trying to get funding together the next time.

[WeAreRovers]

Always always dragging Shels into it. In a thread about Waterford no less. Not content with simply saying that there are clubs in trouble, you start to have a go at Shels, a club in which people, myself included, were prepared to hand over money from our own pockets if it was needed to ensure the survival of Rovers. Cheers, if everyone there is as bitter as yourself I'll not bother trying to get funding together the next time.

Cheers for the cash to help save Rovers. I was aware of help from Harps and individual Sligo and Waterford fans but the Shels money must have got lost :confused:

I was merely backing up Passive and WWS in a thread about a club in financial trouble. Shels are the big club with the big money problems and myself, Passive etc were just pointing it out.

Have a read of your own forum, the head-in-the-sand attitude doesn't bode well for your immediate or long-term future. And BTW I'm not bitter towards Shels, I save all my bitterness for your Northside neighbours. You lot are just an irritant so don't flatter yourself.

Apologies for bringing this off topic with this response and best of luck too WUFC.

KOH

[exile]

Harps, Galway, Kilkenny and Sligo are probably alright but rest assured the Revenue are really píssed off and are out for blood. The ignorant bliss that Shels fans are living in is about to be shattered. Reality is just around the corner.


on what vast infinite knowledge do you hold that you know the above clubs are safe :rolleyes:

and having a go at shels fans in a waterford thread only goes to show how your a bitter little ignorant halfwit especialy when everyone here wanted rovers to survive even when there is people like you talking through your stupid hole

[Bald Student]

According to the Revenue there are at lest 16/17 clubs in serious trouble and it could be up to 20. The only clubs that are definitely safe are Rovers and Derry.

Harps, Galway, Kilkenny and Sligo are probably alright but rest assured the Revenue are really píssed off and are out for blood.I've heard this a lot recently. Who were you talking to in the revenue that said this? Did they name these clubs? Could you provide a link to any facts or evidence to support that statement. Could you tell me what tax issues my own club (UCD) has?

[WeAreRovers]

on what vast infinite knowledge do you hold that you know the above clubs are safe :rolleyes:

and having a go at shels fans in a waterford thread only goes to show how your a bitter little ignorant halfwit especialy when everyone here wanted rovers to survive even when there is people like you talking through your stupid hole

Can I save this and throw it back in your face when this whole Pandora's box blows up? In case you haven't noticed we (Rovers) have been deeply involved with the Revenue recently and even their public utterences should put the fear of God into most clubs.

I said at least 16/17 clubs are in trouble, coincidentally here's what Joeraki said on the other Revenure related thread - "The revenue have issues with 16 clubs. 5 of those clubs more serious than the rest. Rovers where top of that list up to last Friday, but not by a long shot from 2nd worst club.Thats all I heard from today"

That's some coincidence. This is happening whether you like it or not and abusing me personally might make you feel better but it doesn't make you right.

KOH

[Wiseguy]

I think 1 or 2 Rovers fans have become a bit high and mighty since they started to turn the corner.They are in no position to preach to anyone or question how other clubs run their finances.
Back to the main point i think it would be terrible for Waterford to go to the wall.They have come so far in the last few years and appeared to be a very progressive club.Waterford is a big place with lots of business surely someone can pump some funds into it.If that fails Paul Doolin may try and sign them :D
If the club are in that much bother they should clear out everyone and build from scratch again with an all local policy.
I for one wish them all the best anyway.

[exile]

im not even arguing with your deepthroat account of the tax problems that el clubs facing :rolleyes:

all im saying is your a bitter halfwit for having a go off shels fans in this thread ;)

[Slash/ED]

The obsession with Shels is flattering.

How did Waterford get into this position though? They didn't seem to be spending that much money, or at least didn't have many high profile players that would command decent money, and they would never have expected to finish anywhere other than mid table, how the hell did they let themselves get into this mess?

[Éanna]

How waterford got themselves in this mess is truely beyond me :confused: Not good for the league to have this happening though. Hope they survive.

[Poor Student]

How waterford got themselves in this mess is truely beyond me :confused: Not good for the league to have this happening though. Hope they survive.

Why did they go signing two of our top players last year and never using them? It doesn't make any sense as to what they were thinking or up to. Either they're extremely stupid and ignorant and were not aware of how deep trouble they were in or they incurred such huge expenses this season they destroyed themselves. The latter is not likely as they apparently had one of the lowest wage bills in the division already.

[ColinR]

when we had our major troubles a couple of years back, we were told that there were something like 6/7 clubs who were in almost identical situations, yet jr and the league didn't follow through on their threat at the time for all clubs to have to furnish details etc. since then rovers, waterford and dundalk have had very serious troubles, others i would imagine less so. we are only still in existance through sugar daddies, and are still spending beyond the 'club's' means i.e. we still need our suger daddies.

i would imagine very few clubs live within their means possibly cork, derry, maybe (with success) shels, and maybe a prudent div 1 team like kilkenny - i would be surprised if there are any more.

i honestly think it will take one or maybe two clubs to go to the wall before clubs start to wake up, and get a bit of financial sense. don't offer mega wages that you will not be able to pay without doubling your crowds etc., its just not going to add up in the end.

[Poor Student]

i would imagine very few clubs live within their means possibly cork, derry, maybe (with success) shels, and maybe a prudent div 1 team like kilkenny - i would be surprised if there are any more.



And how do UCD not live within their means in your opinion?

[ColinR]

And how do UCD not live within their means in your opinion?

sorry - just never even thought of ucd ;)

i would reckon ucd would actually do quite well this year - decent crowds from derbies etc, and low wages plus scholorchip etc., but ucd would never follow the same route as other clubs. they do not have to rely on a community to support them etc., and the advantage of the scholship system has unearthed them some excellent players over the years, you just dont want a manger to come in and splash the cash for wages, oh wait you used to have one ;)

[De Town]

i would like to think we are a stable club aswell. never really spent very much money, and we know our limits, e.g. when mark obrien want 1k a week we told him where to go.

[WeAreRovers]

all im saying is your a bitter halfwit for having a go off shels fans in this thread ;)

Unfortunately I'm neither bitter nor a halfwit but you're personal abuse is quite touching. And I'll repeat - I didn't bring up Shels on this thread. Feel free to respond with some more of your witticisms.

KOH

[Sonic]

What sort of a crowd of b@stards have we got running this league.ffs a SUPPOSEDLY IMPORTANT PART of the uefa licening thing was finance so how may I ask did waterford and indeed Rovers get theirs so handy.The fcuker actually had barefaced cheek to hold up our licence and all the while keeping LTFC and its fans worried, when behind the scenes at WUFC and SRFC this was going on.What is their problem with us. Did they not think we were gud for this league or what. :rolleyes: Now Im not going to get all high and mighty over this cause i dont know anything about LTFCs finance but from club officials they seem to be happy enuf so what the fcuk was the fais problems.

At the end of the day the buck stops with the fai.

[Poor Student]

While we on the licence topic what happened to the Bob Breen interview?

[OneRedArmy]

There are a multitude of issues being discussed in this thread under the general title of "clubs being in a bit of bother".

There are clubs with cashflow problems (eg Waterford) and clubs who the Revenue have an interest in talking to, most probably because of alleged cash receipts and payments not being put through the books (everyone bar Rovers who they have reached agreement with and Derry, who are outside the jurisdiction).

These are two separate issues and should be treated as such.

The latter issue of cash not being put through the books and therefore resulting in underpayment of PAYE and other tax is, and has been, rife ever since tax provisions were put in place (and not just in football).

The only thing that has changed recently is that the Revenue seems more willing to pursue these type of cases and football is a relatively high profile target and one where business practices GENERALLY fall far short of those in equivalent sized businesses in say manufacturing or services.

And TP, despite what you say unfortunately in England, Scotland and N.I. many clubs have either gone into liquidation or have at the least had winding up orders sought against them by the Inland Revenue. I can think of at least 6 in Norn Ireland alone over the last decade. Anyone in the know will tell you the UK revenue, historically at least has been much more "proactive" in pursuing defaulters than the Commissioners in Ireland and that statistic backs this up. The only thing stopping this clubs going to the wall is that fans trusts or other investors have provided an investment to meet a settlement with the creditors. Unfortunately in Waterford's case it seems that there just isn't the support to save it, but you never know what might happen in the next few weeks.

Waterford going out of the League would be a terrible blow.

[pineapple stu]

I would reckon UCD would actually do quite well this year - decent crowds from derbies etc, and low wages plus scholarship etc.
Our Dublin game crowds are a good bit down actually - Pat's last week was the worst this season. Our non-Dublin gates are up though! Strange but true.


You just don't want a manager to come in and splash the cash for wages, oh wait you used to have one ;)
:p

Ah Greg O'Dowd - Doolin's first signing and a taste of things to come! :eek:


According to the Revenue there are at lest 16/17 clubs in serious trouble and it could be up to 20. The only clubs that are definitely safe are Rovers and Derry.

Harps, Galway, Kilkenny and Sligo are probably alright but rest assured the Revenue are really píssed off and are out for blood. The ignorant bliss that Shels fans are living in is about to be shattered. Reality is just around the corner.
With respect, WAR, unless you actually provide some evidence of this, that statement is just tabloid rumour-mongering. You've provided no hard evidence to back up your claim, despite being asked for some. What you say may well be spot on, but equally it could be idle gossip. I think that until some sort of actual evidence or reference is given, not much weight should be attached to this claim.

That's not to say eL clubs aren't in trouble - clearly some are - but if we're going to discuss the issue, facts not gossip should be used.

[OneRedArmy]

What sort of a crowd of b@stards have we got running this league.ffs a SUPPOSEDLY IMPORTANT PART of the uefa licening thing was finance so how may I ask did waterford and indeed Rovers get theirs so handy.The fcuker actually had barefaced cheek to hold up our licence and all the while keeping LTFC and its fans worried, when behind the scenes at WUFC and SRFC this was going on.What is their problem with us. Did they not think we were gud for this league or what. :rolleyes: Now Im not going to get all high and mighty over this cause i dont know anything about LTFCs finance but from club officials they seem to be happy enuf so what the fcuk was the fais problems.

At the end of the day the buck stops with the fai.

Actually, you held up your own license by not having the correct documentation and as you say, you know nothing about Longford's finances.

And as for the buck stopping with the FAI, you appear to have passed it back to them, so its a bit rich to stop it now. The clubs are responsible for compliance and the FAI are responsible for monitoring compliance through through the licensing process.

Anyway I fail to see how Longford's delay in getting a license is related to Waterford going down the pan, or did you just feel the need to vent?

:confused:

[pineapple stu]

The clubs are responsible for compliance and the FAI are responsible for monitoring compliance through through the licensing process.
Isn't it the eL, not the FAI, who are responsible for the league (and the related items like licencing)?

[Passive]

Can I just clarify that neither myself nor WAR, nor I'm sure WWS, were getting "high and mighty" and having a go at Shels. The point we were trying to make is that, although we may have been dealt with in a highly public manner, Rovers is by no means the only club that was run in a highly irresponsible manner. The fact of the matter is that the Revenue Commissioners are now investigating the majority of EL clubs for unpaid tax. The sooner EL fans wake up and smell the coffee about how are league is run the better because if someone doesn't put rules on clubs soon the entire league is going to implode.

I don't think this is getting off topic at all because this is a thread about a club getting into serious financial difficulty and having no way to get out of it. I have no idea about the circumstances surrounding WUFC - for all I know the club was run brilliantly and is only bankrupt due to bad luck, maybe the chairman didn't salute after seeing a magpie or something - but I for one am sick of not a season going by without at least one club facing liquidation.

Too many people confuse the actions of Branvard with SRFC. The supporters never supported the actions of Branvard and constantly argued against the reckless trading of the Branvard directors. In fact, we withdrew funding from the club until the Branvard directors stopped the madness. Thankfully, and quite remarkably, the supporters have managed to rescue SRFC from the criminal ways of Branvard. But other supporters should be looking at what happened at Rovers and, instead of bitching and sprouting untruths about the 400 Club evading tax, maybe start thinking closer to home. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[chippie0001]

I think it would be a loss if the league lost Waterford but its just another story of overspending. Most clubs are spending what they have not got and the clubs that are not in the premier say Harps, Pats, Rovers and Waterford are down the bottom and will probably stay there. The FAI have ignored this for years, Delaney does not have the bottle for it. I don't know why the public outrage over Rovers and their debts, Drogheda did the exact same a few years back, think they gave the revenue €50k for 10 years liability.

However while I blame the FAI in part its mainly the clubs fault. Chairmen etc know how much is coming in and out but yet continue. This league cannot afford pro football in its current guise. Maybe with FAI help, government help, a merged league with the North etc it may be possible, right now its not.

Lastly the weird thing is that most fans know it, apart from Shels :D , that we cannot afford what we have and would rather cut back. Shame the people running the league cannot see this. Rovers may be the worst horror story but there are more to come I have no doubt :(

[Pablo]

The FAI are fine and quick to give loan to Pats to pay their wages.......they should help out Waterford.


If i was a fan i'd be questioning where the 100 k sterling from Murphys transfer went........and i'd break his doors down

[WeAreRovers]

With respect, WAR, unless you actually provide some evidence of this, that statement is just tabloid rumour-mongering. You've provided no hard evidence to back up your claim, despite being asked for some. What you say may well be spot on, but equally it could be idle gossip. I think that until some sort of actual evidence or reference is given, not much weight should be attached to this claim.


Since when did the internet and hard evidence have any relationship whatsover? ;)

Seriously I take your point but I'm only relaying what I know and as for hard evidence, there's no way any of it goes near the internet. I may be a loud mouth but I'm smart enough to know what to keep to myself.

There is serious trouble coming down the line, that's a fact. You would only have had to hear what the Revenue had to say in public last Friday to know that. What I'm hearing in private is much stronger but that's where it's staying - in private.

KOH

[OneRedArmy]

Only a fool, or someone with something to hide will come out and deny that tax evasion is going on in some clubs. Most people, myself included, aren't close enough to state it as fact. But the dogs on the street are rarely wrong.

It all depends whether the Revenue have the bottle to pursue it and that will be dependent on a number of factors such as their current workload, how rife they think it is and crucially if they think they can prove it etc.

There's lot of things the Revenue "know" are going on but they choose not to pursue. I'm dubious whether they have the bottle to go the full hog and appoint investigators etc for what may be a limited financial benefit. Chasing Ansbacher account holders and single premium life policyholders is much more lucrative. Not to mention that this is very difficult to prove, you almost need a tout or an insider to admit its going on.

The Revenue may well be rattling the trees in the hope that magically the tax returns from EL clubs will increase over the next few months.

[Partizan]

Lads any help for us would be greatly appreciated. We need all the help we can get to save the Club. We are in such a grave situation, its as simple as that. Any advice especially from Rovers fans bring it on. My email address is partizan_1977@hotmail.com

All things WUFC is discussed on our forum at www.btid.net

Join now and get the ideas flowing. We plan to hold a public meeting shortly with the view to setting up a supporters trust.

To Xlex, put it to you this way, if we had won the Cup, well we wouldnt be in this situation.

Get on the btid board and give us a hand. We badly need asistance, time is running out. :eek:

[pineapple stu]

To Xlex, put it to you this way, if we had won the Cup, well we wouldn't be in this situation.
How? How much is it worth to qualify for Europe and play a Welsh team? Is it E60 or E70k teams competing in Europe get? Bugger all gate receipts and TV money, most of which will go on getting to Wales anyway. An Eastern European draw and you won't make much money out of that either. FAI Cup prize money was feck all last year. Overall, you're surely talking less than you got for Daryl Murphy. If that didn't keep you afloat, how would winning the Cup have? :confused:


Seriously I take your point but I'm only relaying what I know and as for hard evidence, there's no way any of it goes near the internet. I may be a loud mouth but I'm smart enough to know what to keep to myself.
Meh...fair enough. So what you're saying is that you're naughty relaying confidential information to us? ;)