Tayo Adaramola D Stockport (loan from Crystal Palace) b.2003

[backstothewall]

He's not even the first choice left back for the U21s and you want to give him a senior call-up because he got a loan to a lower Belgian side?

I want to give him a senior call-up because I think he's probably one of our best 2 or 3 left backs. The north regularly have to do things like this. Conor Bradley made his international debut at 18 years old before he ever played a game of league football. That exposure was arguably a springboard that enabled him to achieve the success he is now enjoying.

If you this we have 3 better options, feel free to name them.

And when it comes to judging the potetial of young players I have a lot more faith in the coaches at Premier League clubs than I have in our underage management tbh.

[ColourfulPeanut]

From the U21s alone: Sean Roughan, James Furlong and Anselmo Garcia MacNulty. All played/playing senior football at left back

Palace haven't played him and he was sent packing from Coventry without playing. The lad played about an hour of senior football so far. That shows how much faith the club coaches have in him.

[backstothewall]

McNulty is a central defender.

Is Roughan playing in league one a better level than sitting on the bench in the Premier League? Debatable I suppose. Furlong is playing a division lower than Adaramola and no closer to being picked.

Even if Cirkin declared for us he's lost his place in the Sunderland team.

The reality is we have extremely limited options. McClean has gone, Enda Stevens is the wrong side of 30, and we probably have to throw a couple of young lads in to see if they sink or swim.

I'm not saying you're wrong about Roughan btw. I'd suggest they should both play 20-30 mins for the seniors in March. Its a disaster but that's where we are.

[ontheotherhand]

Andy Lyons is a more plausible option for me. Can play on either side and has done it at Championship level. Back playing now and would be worth a look in March.

[pineapple stu]

McNulty is a central defender.

Is Roughan playing in league one a better level than sitting on the bench in the Premier League? Debatable I suppose. Furlong is playing a division lower than Adaramola and no closer to being picked.

MacNulty has been playing left back all season.

Andy Lyons is probably another choice - plus Ryan Manning of course.

[ColourfulPeanut]

MacNulty has played nearly every game this season for Zwolle at left back. Including their latest game on Saturday and draw away to Ajax last month for an idea of the level he's at.

You can talk down Roughan's level or Furlong not breaking through at senior level. Even with that and our limited options Adaramola has done abolutely nothing to warrant even a discussion about a call-up

[ontheotherhand]

What's the ideal depth chart look like for a new manager?

Manning, Scales, MacNulty, Lyons, Roughan Furlong, Aderemola?

Is it worth even having Stevens in the team? O'Dowda probably in the mix but I don't love him in that position.

[pineapple stu]

I'd even have Brady in there before Adaramola if he doesn't get in the Molenbeek team tbh (which was the original suggestion)

You'd have Stevens in a depth chart for sure - but he's very injury prone these days. Hasn't played since the start of December for example.

[backstothewall]

Adaramola has done abolutely nothing to warrant even a discussion about a call-up

Nobody has. That's the point.

All he has going for him is that there's been chat about how highly Palace rate him, which is sort of backed up by the fact that Palace haven't brought in anyone as cover from Mitchell.

Manning is the default first choice now. I don't rate him myself but he's all there is.

There's no real way to know what level Adaramola can play at. We know exactly what level someone in League One is at. To me someone we've never seen play on the fringes of a Premier League team is worth a punt ahead of someone playing in League One. YMMV

[ontheotherhand]

He's not on the fringes of a PL team though. He's been sent on loan because they don't need him right now. Let the lad play a season at senior level.

Fair on Brady stu but I'd almost just cut himself and Stevens out. There are enough senior players elsewhere, Manning is OK and we need to start planning for the future. One or two of the lads who are playing ball e.g. MacNulty, Lyons, Roughan should probably be in the next few squads to see how they get on.

[Joxerbrowne]

Manning has been having a very good season for Southampton after a shaky start. Has to be our left full/wing back going forward.

1749372834760020295

[pineapple stu]

Fair on Brady stu but I'd almost just cut himself and Stevens out.
I'd agree in general, but beggars can't be choosers, so if we're setting out a list of who we have, they should be in there I think. They can be far enough down the list that they wouldn't feature in a squad. But age-wise they're not way over the hill (32/33) and they're still playing at a good level (Championship).

I'd have MacNulty ahead of both at this stage, probably Scales too (though I think he's shown at Celtic and even at UCD he's not really a left-back) and maybe one of Lyons/Roughan, even though I'm loathe to go to League One. I like O'Dowda as a player but not at left-back - yet maybe he has to be considered there too. But we are where we are.

I'd go with any of those ahead of guys who haven't played a senior game at a decent level yet (I'd include Furlong in that). I think the home-grown rule means there's more young players getting on PL benches these days - it doesn't mean they're really considered ready for the first team. Gavin Kilkenny is another example.

[ontheotherhand]

I'd agree in general, but beggars can't be choosers, so if we're setting out a list of who we have, they should be in there I think. They can be far enough down the list that they wouldn't feature in a squad. But age-wise they're not way over the hill (32/33) and they're still playing at a good level (Championship).

I'd have MacNulty ahead of both at this stage, probably Scales too (though I think he's shown at Celtic and even at UCD he's not really a left-back) and maybe one of Lyons/Roughan, even though I'm loathe to go to League One. I like O'Dowda as a player but not at left-back - yet maybe he has to be considered there too. But we are where we are.

I'd go with any of those ahead of guys who haven't played a senior game at a decent level yet (I'd include Furlong in that). I think the home-grown rule means there's more young players getting on PL benches these days - it doesn't mean they're really considered ready for the first team. Gavin Kilkenny is another example.

fair.

Wouldn't rule Scales out of Lb/Lwb just yet. He was very good there for Rovers. Celtic played him there too early probably. Good passing range and an eye for a goal.

[backstothewall]

He's not on the fringes of a PL team though.

He was on the bench on Saturday. And for 3 of their last 5 games.

He's obviously training with the first team squad. If they have a training game he'll be marking Michael Olise.

You obviously have a different definition of "on the fringes" than I do.

[pineapple stu]

He's played for the 21s more often than he's made the bench for the senior team. He's on the bench because he's in the squad to cover home grown players, and they're presumably missing a couple of players so they have no-one else in their 25-man squad to cover.

I think he's no more due a call-up than Gavin Kilkenny tbh - also making the bench because his team are stuck, and also in a position where we're stuck.

[ColourfulPeanut]

Back to the training with a PL club is better than actually playing senior football argument again.

Caoimhin Kelleher being a superstar after years of grabbing the bag of balls for Allisson's warm-up and helping with Mo Salah's shooting practice. Nevermind MacNulty playing left back in the Eredivise, Adarmola gets to occasionaly mark Olise in training.

[pineapple stu]

Caoimhin Kelleher being a superstar after years of grabbing the bag of balls for Allisson's warm-up and helping with Mo Salah's shooting practice.
I think in fairness to Kelleher, there's a difference between a number two keeper and a being kid who's there to fill up the home-grown rules in the squad. You might actually need your back-up keeper; I think there has to be some element of comfort around them. That's not to say Kelleher is Alisson material obviously and I'm broadly in agreement with you, but I think Adaramola is a step even behind where Kelleher is.

Edit - incidentally, one other option at left-back is Alex Murphy at Newcastle. He has at least played a game (well, 45 minutes) and featured a fair bit in pre-season. Down the preference list I think, but one to keep an eye on nonetheless.

[Jd2793]

Back to the training with a PL club is better than actually playing senior football argument again.

Caoimhin Kelleher being a superstar after years of grabbing the bag of balls for Allisson's warm-up and helping with Mo Salah's shooting practice. Nevermind MacNulty playing left back in the Eredivise, Adarmola gets to occasionaly mark Olise in training.

smartest foot.ie poster

[ontheotherhand]

He was on the bench on Saturday. And for 3 of their last 5 games.

He's obviously training with the first team squad. If they have a training game he'll be marking Michael Olise.

You obviously have a different definition of "on the fringes" than I do.

Being as far away as Belgium is fairly fringey.

[backstothewall]

Back to the training with a PL club is better than actually playing senior football argument again.

Caoimhin Kelleher being a superstar after years of grabbing the bag of balls for Allisson's warm-up and helping with Mo Salah's shooting practice. Nevermind MacNulty playing left back in the Eredivise, Adarmola gets to occasionaly mark Olise in training.

Not remotely comparable situations. If we had someone playing regularly as first choice left back for Southampton they would be making every squad, but we don't. If Kelleher was in competition with somneone playing for a mid-table side in League One he would have a hell of a lot more caps.

Nobody is saying the kid is a "superstar", but congratulations. You kicked the **** out of that straw man.

IMHO we need to try 2 new left backs this spring. McNulty is probably the best option given he has been playing left back in the Eredivisie all season (I didn't know that tbh). But after that the options avaiable to us are.

- An allegedly highly rated kid who's been training with a Premier League team and is now off to their affiliate in Belgium for some game time.
- A kid who probably prefers playing fullback who has been playing regularly as a central defender for Lincoln City in League One.
- Ram a square peg into a round hole.

There's nobody saying this is a good thing. It's a case of choosing from 3 awful options. I don't think anyone can honestly say one of them is clearly right or wrong.

[pineapple stu]

If we had someone playing regularly as first choice left back for Southampton they would be making every squad, but we don't.
We do though? Manning has started 20 of Southampton's 28 league games this season.

I think we need to be careful about guys put in a squad to meet home-grown requirements. There was a similar clamour on here a couple of years back to have Conor Coventry in the squad because he made the bench at West Ham a couple of times. Adaramola makes as much sense tbh - especially when you suggest he should be called up even if he doesn't feature at Molenbeek.

[backstothewall]

We do though? Manning has started 20 of Southampton's 28 league games this season.

That was unfortunate. I was refering to Bazunu there.

I've already said Manning is clearly the first choice at this stage, but we need to try a couple of other options as cover.



I think we need to be careful about guys put in a squad to meet home-grown requirements. There was a similar clamour on here a couple of years back to have Conor Coventry in the squad because he made the bench at West Ham a couple of times. Adaramola makes as much sense tbh - especially when you suggest he should be called up even if he doesn't feature at Molenbeek.

They have dozens of players in their youth system to choose from to fill those places on the bench. It's still a sign that when measured against his peers they think he is one of the better prospects they have.

And we absolutely need cover for Manning. Who apart from García-MacNulty is an obviously better option?

[pineapple stu]

That was unfortunate. I was refering to Bazunu there.
Fair enough - I was wondering what that was about!


They have dozens of players in their youth system to choose from to fill those places on the bench. It's still a sign that when measured against his peers they think he is one of the better prospects they have.
True - but it doesn't mean he's up to international level yet. As we've seen with others who've made the bench in similar circumstances in previous years.


And we absolutely need cover for Manning. Who apart from García-MacNulty is an obviously better option?
I think we've had a few names mentioned already, no? Lyons, Roughan, Scales, O'Dowda, Stevens, Brady (if fit, which is increasingly unlikely). They're not great options, but I think they're still better for all that. Especially if, as you said, Adaramola doesn't feature for Molenbeek.

[backstothewall]

I think we've had a few names mentioned already, no? Lyons, Roughan, Scales, O'Dowda, Stevens, Brady (if fit, which is increasingly unlikely). They're not great options, but I think they're still better for all that. Especially if, as you said, Adaramola doesn't feature for Molenbeek.

Names mentioned but i don't see many that I feel deserve to be ahead of him. Arguably Roughan, but that comes down to how you feel about PL2 or the Juliper League vs League One.

Lyons is a right-footed right back. He's been playing at LM for Blackpool so is obviously adaptable, but doing a job in midfield in League One isn't the same thing as playing international football out of position. That we're having to consider going into League One is bad enough, but if we're having to do so it seems logical that Roughan should be ahead of him in the pecking order at LB.

Scales is a central defender for me (and a good one), and he's left footed so he could do some sort of job at LB, but he's not going to offer much in the way of a crossing threat or make too many runs overlaping the winger. That might be no bad thing in games against teams we aren't expected to beat, but to be honest my thinking is that the next manager will be forced to persist with a back 3/5, and we're really looking for a wingback rather than a pure fullback. Scales will probably play on the left of the 3 though.

O'Dowda hasn't been playing this season and hasn't done much with the chances he's had for us to suggest he he deserves much more at club level. At 28 I'd see both Roughan and Adaramola as being at similar enough level to him, but with both having a much higher potential ceiling given their age.

If Enda Stevens is fit I'd have him ahead of Manning if we were playing a qualifier in March. But the point is that we have the best part of a year to prepare for the next qualification campaign, and unfortunately he's very unlikely to still be around for that. Ditto Brady. Using either one of them will get us through the next 12 months, but at that point we'll likely find ourselves in an even worse position than we are now.

Joel Bagan is getting game time in Belgium, but in the division below where Adaramola is going, so it seems logical Adaramola should now be ahead of him in the pecking order if he gets game time (which you would assume he will given Palace's relationship with Molenbeek).

If i was in charge for the next 2 games, I'd give Manning 60 mins in both games at LWB, and assuming they are playing regularly in the Eredivisie & Juliper League, experiment with 20-30 mins each for Garcia-McNulty & Adaramola. I'm not saying either of them are world beaters, or that we would ever consider this under normal circumstances, but a year from now we'll be in desperate trouble at LB if Manning suffers an injury of any description, and we need to use these upcoming games to preapre for that eventuality. These friendlies are an opportunity to try outside the box options. We learn absolutely nothing from bringing Enda Stevens or Callum O'Dowda off the bench for another cap in a friendly vs Switzerland.

Given that the U21 fixture in March is vs San Marino, there's little to be gained for either of them from picking up another U21 cap either. Seamus Coleman will hopefully be available again and would be the captain welcoming them to the squad. If a young full back can't learn something from a week training with him they'll never make it. And once it's over they go back the their clubs with an experience behind them and with a spring in their step. They'll be elevated within their dressing room with their status as senior internationals.

They might end up a 21st century version of Joe Lapira, but surely that's the whole point of friendly games.

[John83]

O'Dowda hasn't been playing this season and hasn't done much with the chances he's had for us to suggest he he deserves much more at club level. At 28 I'd see both Roughan and Adaramola as being at similar enough level to him, but with both having a much higher potential ceiling given their age.
O'Dowda has 185 league games at Championship level, albeit mostly in midfield. Adaramola has 0 senior games at any level. Maybe you've seen a lot of him and you're a brilliant judge of a footballer, but I'm inclined to dismiss this kind of thing out of hand and I'll be right at least 99% of the time.

I've seen it over and over and over and over: any teenager we haven't seen must be better somehow than the established senior players just because we'd really like it to be true. Half the time the lad never even makes it at League 1 level and finishes his career with 0 senior caps.

[backstothewall]

I've seen it over and over and over and over: any teenager we haven't seen must be better somehow than the established senior players just because we'd really like it to be true. Half the time the lad never even makes it at League 1 level and finishes his career with 0 senior caps.

This sort of thinking is why we almost always have the squad with the oldest average age when we do qualify for a tournament. It's the reason why Wes Hoolahan got 1 cap in his 20, and 42 in his 30s. It's the reason why Jack Grealish wasn't tied to us when he was lighting up League One for Notts County. We never never gamble on the future. Even for a couple of totally meaningless friendly games, some of the Irish public freak out at the idea of throwing a kid in and giving him an opportunity.

Nobody is saying the 3 kids we're talking about are better than O'Dowda. I'm just saying that there's a chance that they could be one day. It might even be even by the time the real football comes round.

Callum O'Dowda is a midfielder, he will be 31 years old by the time the next major tournament comes round, and since September he has played exactly as much senior football as Adaramola, except he's training with Championship players instead of Premier League players. Oh, and we already know that even on his best day he isn't very good.

Throwing in a couple of U21s for half an hour each has all the potential upside I outlined above.

Can anyone explain what is to be gained by Callum O'Dowda coming for Manning to see out a friendly against Belgium after the managers have made half a dozen changes each and the game has had the stuffing knocked out of it?

[ColourfulPeanut]

. It's the reason why Jack Grealish wasn't tied to us when he was lighting up League One for Notts County.

Jack Grealish was never, ever, not in a million years going to take a senior cap for us. It's been reported over and over again. We shouldn't be in the business of tricking children into comitting their international career with us.

We're going to have a new manager for these upcoming friendlies. They need to be used to bed the squad in that will be used in the qualifiers. Not to take punts on random U21s who can't break into senior teams. Their time will come and they'll get in on merit if it does.

[ontheotherhand]

Names mentioned but i don't see many that I feel deserve to be ahead of him. Arguably Roughan, but that comes down to how you feel about PL2 or the Juliper League vs League One.

Lyons is a right-footed right back. He's been playing at LM for Blackpool so is obviously adaptable, but doing a job in midfield in League One isn't the same thing as playing international football out of position. That we're having to consider going into League One is bad enough, but if we're having to do so it seems logical that Roughan should be ahead of him in the pecking order at LB.

Scales is a central defender for me (and a good one), and he's left footed so he could do some sort of job at LB, but he's not going to offer much in the way of a crossing threat or make too many runs overlaping the winger. That might be no bad thing in games against teams we aren't expected to beat, but to be honest my thinking is that the next manager will be forced to persist with a back 3/5, and we're really looking for a wingback rather than a pure fullback. Scales will probably play on the left of the 3 though.

O'Dowda hasn't been playing this season and hasn't done much with the chances he's had for us to suggest he he deserves much more at club level. At 28 I'd see both Roughan and Adaramola as being at similar enough level to him, but with both having a much higher potential ceiling given their age.

If Enda Stevens is fit I'd have him ahead of Manning if we were playing a qualifier in March. But the point is that we have the best part of a year to prepare for the next qualification campaign, and unfortunately he's very unlikely to still be around for that. Ditto Brady. Using either one of them will get us through the next 12 months, but at that point we'll likely find ourselves in an even worse position than we are now.

Joel Bagan is getting game time in Belgium, but in the division below where Adaramola is going, so it seems logical Adaramola should now be ahead of him in the pecking order if he gets game time (which you would assume he will given Palace's relationship with Molenbeek).

If i was in charge for the next 2 games, I'd give Manning 60 mins in both games at LWB, and assuming they are playing regularly in the Eredivisie & Juliper League, experiment with 20-30 mins each for Garcia-McNulty & Adaramola. I'm not saying either of them are world beaters, or that we would ever consider this under normal circumstances, but a year from now we'll be in desperate trouble at LB if Manning suffers an injury of any description, and we need to use these upcoming games to preapre for that eventuality. These friendlies are an opportunity to try outside the box options. We learn absolutely nothing from bringing Enda Stevens or Callum O'Dowda off the bench for another cap in a friendly vs Switzerland.

Given that the U21 fixture in March is vs San Marino, there's little to be gained for either of them from picking up another U21 cap either. Seamus Coleman will hopefully be available again and would be the captain welcoming them to the squad. If a young full back can't learn something from a week training with him they'll never make it. And once it's over they go back the their clubs with an experience behind them and with a spring in their step. They'll be elevated within their dressing room with their status as senior internationals.

They might end up a 21st century version of Joe Lapira, but surely that's the whole point of friendly games.

Lyons has been most successful at LWB and has played well at Championship level.

[Eirambler]

Lyons hasn't always been a regular for Blackpool in League 1 even when fit. I'd say he's miles off a call up to be honest.

[ontheotherhand]

Lyons hasn't always been a regular for Blackpool in League 1 even when fit. I'd say he's miles off a call up to be honest.

He had a family bereavement lad. Was out for quite a while dealing with it. Was first choice beforehand and shone in the Championship. Either he will be first choice again or he'll get a good move. Have a read of the Blackpool forum.

We don't have many players who are miles off a call up.

[John83]

This sort of thinking is why we almost always have the squad with the oldest average age when we do qualify for a tournament.
No, that happened in the 2012 and 2016 tournaments because the FAI failed to build up youth development in Ireland as UK clubs that traditionally patched that hole for us started recruiting globally as their budgets and prestige increased. There was a legitimate lack of talent behind the generation that produced Keane, Duff, Dunne, Given, Harte, Kelly, Finnan, Carr, O'Shea, etc.


It's the reason why Wes Hoolahan got 1 cap in his 20, and 42 in his 30s. It's the reason why Jack Grealish wasn't tied to us when he was lighting up League One for Notts County. We never never gamble on the future. Even for a couple of totally meaningless friendly games, some of the Irish public freak out at the idea of throwing a kid in and giving him an opportunity.
Wes was a late bloomer. He scored a lot of goals in the Championship in 10/11, when he was already 28. Prior to that, he had one season in the Championship two years earlier, when he was fairly unremarkable. In spite of that, he was in training camps and squads of Trapattoni's, and even got some game time in some meaningless friendy games. It sounds to me like he was given a chance at exactly the appropriate time in his career.


Nobody is saying the 3 kids we're talking about are better than O'Dowda. I'm just saying that there's a chance that they could be one day. It might even be even by the time the real football comes round.
And when they're ready, they can play.


Throwing in a couple of U21s for half an hour each has all the potential upside I outlined above.
Nothing is learned from watching a green player out of their depth. Is there a chance that one of the great many players who get mentioned as worth a look is in fact worth a look? Yes. But it's the job of the management team to identify those players and to give them the opportunity when they're ready, not to squander the rare moments they get to prepare and assess the team in match play in order to watch a large number of teenagers confirm their professional judgement that they're not ready yet. 30 minutes of a meaningless friendly doesn't change anyone's career trajectory, and it wouldn't have tied Greelish to us. All it does is satisfy the grass is always greener itch.

[tetsujin1979]

Started in a 3-1 loss this evening. RWDM had a player sent off after only four minutes, but it was 1-1 at 90 minutes, when Adaramola was taken off, then they conceded twice in injury time , at 96 and 98 minutes
1751666251976319409

[John83]

A start in senior football is a huge milestone for him. Great to see it. Hopefully he has a great few months there and kicks on.

[backstothewall]

Nothing is learned from watching a green player out of their depth.

You obviously and undeniably learn that they're still too green out of their depth.

There are no guarantees either way with any young player until they are out there

That's why I'm suggesting trying 2 of them. It's entirely possible one or both of them would look lost. But if one of them is able step up and takes to it the gamble pays off. Because it's a friendly game the risk is very low but the potential reward is huge.

But this is obviously a dynamic situation with the loan move. He's playing now at a better level* than any Irish left back bar Manning or McNulty. If he thrives in Belgium by the time March comes round he may be called up on merit rather than as part of a strategic gamble to give youth an opportunity.

* https://worldsoccertalk.com/news/best-soccer-leagues-in-the-world-according-to-opta-20231002-WST-459681.html

[pineapple stu]

You obviously and undeniably learn that they're still too green out of their depth.opportunity.
You don't need to cap someone to learn that. That's what scouting is for, and why the management team would be at 21s games.


He's playing now at a better level than any Irish left back bar Manning or McNulty. .
Scales and O'Dowda might beg to differ


If he thrives in Belgium by the time March comes round he may be called up on merit .
He might - but again, to be clear, you suggested he be called up even if he wasn't getting his game in Belgium.

[backstothewall]

You don't need to cap someone to learn that. That's what scouting is for, and why the management team would be at 21s games.

Scouting is a tool. It only get you so far. What would extended scouting of Harry Kane on loan at Leicester in 2013 have revealed? I doubt the notes made by many scouts would have suggested his 2 goals form 13 appearances in the Championship were the mark of a guy who would become England's all time top scorer.


Scales and O'Dowda might beg to differ


O'Dowda isn't playing at any level and hasn't since August. That's something he needs to take up with his manager and his agent.

Realistically playing Scales means reverting to a back four, which absent McClean means finding a left winger who can provide some width from the left. That's a whole other can of worms.

In any case both OPTA and UEFA have the Belgian Pro league ranked as being stronger than the SPL.

[pineapple stu]

O'Dowda is injured and due back in the next few weeks.

Scales has also been playing Champions League (and thriving in it), which is a heck of a lot stronger than fighting relegation from the Belgian division. Both divisions have tails but you wouldn't argue someone at Ross County is playing at the same level as someone at Celtic. (Or you certainly shouldn't)

[backstothewall]

O'Dowda is injured and due back in the next few weeks.

Scales has also been playing Champions League (and thriving in it), which is a heck of a lot stronger than fighting relegation from the Belgian division. Both divisions have tails but you wouldn't argue someone at Ross County is playing at the same level as someone at Celtic. (Or you certainly shouldn't)

Of course not. Scales was playing Champions League in the champions league within the last few months. He's another excellent example of how people can defy all expectations when given an opportunity. There was nothing any scout could have observed about his loan spell at Aberdeen last season suggesting he would be winning MOTM awards in the Champions League within 12 months.

But he's not realistically going to take the ball up the field or make attacking runs up the left wing. Playing him at LB means finding a left winger, probably a left footed one, which we simply don't have right now.

We have 3 active left-footed players under 30 with senior caps. Scales, Manning, Hamilton, plus O'Dowda who has been out since August.

With injuries and suspensions we're at risk of going into a game looking dreadfully unbalanced (for a team who rely on set pieces as heavily we do that's a major problem). Given only Scales is and Manning are playing at the sort of level we would normally consider, we're going to have to do something unconventional

[pineapple stu]

There was nothing any scout could have observed about his loan spell at Aberdeen last season suggesting he would be winning MOTM awards in the Champions League within 12 months.
Actually once Rodgers brought in a new system and started looking at players in pre-season, he fairly quickly twigged that Scales would fit. I think he commented on it during pre-season. Ange was playing Scales slightly out of position (I'm not sold on him at left-back, going back to UCD days) but also in a very high-tempo pressing system which maybe didn't suit Scales, particularly in terms of coming from the lower-fitness levels of the LoI.

So scouting works.

Yes, we have a crisis, but that doesn't mean we can solve it by throwing guys in who are on the Premier League bench purely because it covers home-grown requirements, and who were recalled from their only loan spell because they didn't make a lower division team (and then further suggesting they should be called up even if they move to Belgium and still don't get a game)

Manning, MacNulty, Scales and O'Dowda seem adequate if uninspired cover for the position at present. I'd be far more inclined to blood MacNulty than Adaramola at present. That may change come March of course.

[Eirambler]

The issue with Scales is that he's a decent centre back, but a very poor left back. I'm not sure he should really be in the left back conversation at all.

[pineapple stu]

Yep, I've put that reservation out a number of times, but I think he'd still be ahead of a guy on the PL bench to satisfy home-grown requirements, who was recalled from his only loan spell for not getting any game time, who isn't our 21s starting left-back (I'll have to take the poster who said that on trust cos i don't know who's there myself) and who (in the OP) mightn't even be getting his game at Molenbeek

I don't agree with the idea of capping random thing players cos "You never know" - as the discussion on Conor Coventry has shown

[JR89]

Yep, I've put that reservation out a number of times, but I think he'd still be ahead of a guy on the PL bench to satisfy home-grown requirements, who was recalled from his only loan spell for not getting any game time, who isn't our 21s starting left-back (I'll have to take the poster who said that on trust cos i don't know who's there myself) and who (in the OP) mightn't even be getting his game at Molenbeek

I don't agree with the idea of capping random thing players cos "You never know" - as the discussion on Conor Coventry has shown

Yeah Roughan is first choice LB for our 21s and could argue that McNulty might be second choice with Furlong and Adaramola battling it out for third choice.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah Roughan is first choice LB for our 21s and could argue that McNulty might be second choice with Furlong and Adaramola battling it out for third choice.
I mean, that rests it for me - the coaches are deciding that order. Things may change by March of course, but I'm happy to go with their professional judgement from working with the players.

[ontheotherhand]

The issue with Scales is that he's a decent centre back, but a very poor left back. I'm not sure he should really be in the left back conversation at all.

Based on 15 appearances for Celtic in his first season at that level under a very demanding system? You likely wouldn't have rated him as decent at centre back until recently either.

Far too early to write him off at LB or LWB. He was excellent there for Rovers. Good crosser and a great finisher. Was a winger growing up.

Might be featuring on the left for Celtic soon too so we will have more info then.

[elatedscum]

I mean, that rests it for me - the coaches are deciding that order. Things may change by March of course, but I'm happy to go with their professional judgement from working with the players.

I will say that Anselmo (as far as I remember) hasn't played left back for the 21s, it's been all centre-half in a 4, or LCB in a 5. Roughan is definitely first choice and at the start of the campaign, Furlong was second choice but in the most recent camp, Tayo was picked ahead of Furlong. So I'd say it's:

RB:

1. Curtis
2. Abankwah

LB:

1. Roughan
2. Adaramola
3. Furlong

CB

1. Lawal
2. Garcia-McNulty
3. O'Riordan
4. Grehan

Then you've got Alex Murphy who is probably a centre-back but also maybe a left back.

In the macro discussion about left backs with Manning, Brady, O'Dowda, Lyons, Scales, Stevens, Roughan, Adaramola, Bagan, Tom O'Connor, Murphy - I'd also include Danny MacNamara who can definitely play there (don't think he's really played much this season) and Jon Gallagher, long shot but worth a shot.

Can Kioso play on the left?

[pineapple stu]

Not a good day for him today at home against Anderlecht - they're 3-0 down, he was at fault for one of the goals, and went off before the half-hour, which I presume has to be due to injury. Presume that would rule out any chance of a senior call-up later in the month

[Razors left peg]

Not a good day for him today at home against Anderlecht - they're 3-0 down, he was at fault for one of the goals, and went off before the half-hour, which I presume has to be due to injury. Presume that would rule out any chance of a senior call-up later in the month

He's probably a bit off a senior call up yet. It's an area of need but he needs more development. Not even a guaranteed u21 starter

[pineapple stu]

He's probably a bit off a senior call up yet.
I do tend to agree with this (as noted earlier in the thread...!) - but it is a position we're increasingly desperate in. Though if he's injured then that certainly ends the matter.

[pineapple stu]

Got 14 games all told - 12 starts - but was injured in the penultimate game, which Molenbeek lost, and they went down the following week.

Presume he's back to Palace's 21s for now (he's still only 20) but still think he's not really in contention for a senior cap yet

[SkStu]

Got 14 games all told - 12 starts - but was injured in the penultimate game, which Molenbeek lost, and they went down the following week.

Presume he's back to Palace's 21s for now (he's still only 20) but still think he's not really in contention for a senior cap yet

Former Palace alumnus, Jake O’Brien had a middling to good loan spell at Molenbeek as a 20/21 year old before getting a move to Lyon and a year later it’s beyond time we’ve seen him in green. Hope the trajectory is similar for Tayo. We (obviously) need decent FB options. These experiences can be the making of the player. Different cultures, different values etc. Not sure his contractual situation but I’d hope Tayo makes a similar career choice if the opportunity arises to move somewhere similar on loan or moved - and doesn’t elect to languish in the reserve level of an EPL team. I’m sure Glasner will want to take a look first though.