Luxembourg v Republic of Ireland - Sun, 14th November 2021 - 2022 World Cup Qualifier

[Insidetherock]

Gavin Kilkenny might be looked at as the replacement for Cullen in the March friendlies

Definitely bring him into the squad.. and like I said, pick around 30 players for the four NL games in June and start integrating the next five or six likely to make the step up

[pineapple stu]

Is he actually suspended for the next tournament or did he TV just put it up automatically not thinking we have no games left in he tournament?
Actually wiki says he probably isn't suspended (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_A) -


Receiving two yellow cards in two different matches (yellow card suspensions are carried forward to the play-offs, but not the finals or any other future international matches)

Maybe it was just a tournament-standard graphic?

[Insidetherock]

Brilliant article here from The Athletic about when players generally hit their peak in the various positions on the pitch..

Strikers - around 27

And there's lads here writing off Idah, Connolly, Parrott, Obafemi.. 19-21 yr olds

Aldridge was 28 when he made his debut..

https://theathletic.com/2935360/2021/11/15/what-age-do-players-in-different-positions-peak/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

[CraftyToePoke]

Definitely bring him into the squad.. and like I said, pick around 30 players for the four NL games in June and start integrating the next five or six likely to make the step up

As well as Cullen has played, he'll be relieved if he's not suspended, Knight did really well, Hendrick did nothing wrong, Taylor was called up & Kilkenny is entering the conversation too. Hourihane & Browne are less of a worry to him but there's only room for so many. Molumby is around too.

Who would be your five or six in the reckoning for the friendlies ? Taylor, Kilkenny, Doyle-Hayes, Ronan for me if they continue their seasons. Nathan Collins I'm counting as in already despite not playing.

It'd be nice if Obafemi bought an alarm clock and sorted himself out to join them but the odds continue to lengthen on that one.

[pineapple stu]

Brilliant article here from The Athletic about when players generally hit their peak in the various positions on the pitch..

Strikers - around 27

And there's lads here writing off Idah, Connolly, Parrott, Obafemi.. 19-21 yr olds

Aldridge was 28 when he made his debut..

https://theathletic.com/2935360/2021/11/15/what-age-do-players-in-different-positions-peak/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983
John Aldridge had scored 150 club goals by the time he made his international debut. It's not really a like-for-like example.

[passinginterest]

I think Cullen and Doherty were the only players to start all the qualifiers. It means we probably do need to look at an alternative option to Cullen in the friendlies anyway. There's the tried and failed in Hourihane, then there's the all action but erratic Molumby. There's also the likes of Browne and Knight who could potentially do a job in the current squad. Jack Taylor was called up and probably comes close to fitting the bill, then in the 21s we have Coventry and Kilkenny who won't be far away from stepping up. Taylor seems to be ahead of Coventry at club level so unless that reverses Taylor is probably in prime position and Kilkenny is having a great season so he's most likely next in line for a senior cap.

Would like to see Manning get some playing time soon too. I always wonder about a player like that, who gets called up all the time, but even when it looks like there's a gap for him to come in he gets overlooked for someone like McClean. It makes me think he's not a great trainer, or there's just something management don't quite trust about him.

[Stuttgart88]

It'd be nice if Obafemi bought an alarm clock Very good!

[tetsujin1979]

Thought this was interesting
1460286705676832772

[Insidetherock]

John Aldridge had scored 150 club goals by the time he made his international debut. It's not really a like-for-like example.

That is my whole point.. certain people here seem to think we should be comparing the Idah's and Connolly's to the likes of Aldridge.. who knows how many club goals our young players will have scored by the time they are 28?

[Razors left peg]

I think my favorite post Ive read(Im sorry I cant remember who wrote it) about how its unfair to be too harsh on the young strikers is that at 19/ 20 Ogbene was playing for Limerick. He wasnt exactly starring there either. Ive been very guilty myself of criticizing Connolly and Obafemi in particular but they are young guys who still have loads of time to improve. Robinson is 26 now, its taken him until the last 6 months to really establish himself with us.

That being said, being late for training consistently, getting into fights in nightclubs, not putting the effort in overall is not going to help them improve. They all still have time but it wont get handed to them, they need to work if they are going to be successful footballers.

[pineapple stu]

That is my whole point.. certain people here seem to think we should be comparing the Idah's and Connolly's to the likes of Aldridge.. who knows how many club goals our young players will have scored by the time they are 28?
But equally, I'm sure there's plenty of players who spend a couple of years on the fringes of a Premier League side without really breaking through, and then drop down the divisions to settle in the third/fourth tier. Why compare to Aldridge and not to the other side of things?

I don't think anyone's writing Idah off for ever and ever - but on the flip side I think it's reasonable to speculate whether he'll be an international in, say, five years' time. We've a lot of young players and the harsh reality of young players is that not all of them can make it.

To be honest, if his club situation doesn't change by March, I wouldn't have him in the squad then. Ten minutes every other week isn't really what's needed, especially if Scott Hogan has, say, 12-15 Championship goals by then.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Worth noting that Kenny has changed his football philosophy over the last year. We're now playing possession football and trying to get forward quickly rather than the slow backward-sideways passing game he started off with.

Remember he was a 4-3-3 man no matter what also? The formation, style of play, patterns of play, set pieces etc etc etc have all dramatically improved over the past year. Others have noted how well coached the team looks now. It's clear that Anthony Barry has had a major influence on things.

If keeping Barry on board is dependent on Kenny keeping his job, then I think everyone can accept that. If it looks like he's leaving, gets a job offer or something like that, then I think we need to make a move and offer him the top job.

Now, Kenny has to get credit for bringing Barry on board. Having such a highly rated coach is having a hugely positive impact on many players who wouldn't have had access to this high level of coaching. Things obviously haven't been perfect, far from it but from a position where we were really struggling last year, things have improved since Barry started in February.

I know there are many people who will see this as an attack on Kenny. Far from it. We all want what's best for Ireland and I don't think anyone could argue that having the Chelsea coach involved isn't a great thing for us. We need to keep him at all costs.

[TonyD]

Remember he was a 4-3-3 man no matter what also? The formation, style of play, patterns of play, set pieces etc etc etc have all dramatically improved over the past year. Others have noted how well coached the team looks now. It's clear that Anthony Barry has had a major influence on things.

If keeping Barry on board is dependent on Kenny keeping his job, then I think everyone can accept that. If it looks like he's leaving, gets a job offer or something like that, then I think we need to make a move and offer him the top job.

Now, Kenny has to get credit for bringing Barry on board. Having such a highly rated coach is having a hugely positive impact on many players who wouldn't have had access to this high level of coaching. Things obviously haven't been perfect, far from it but from a position where we were really struggling last year, things have improved since Barry started in February.

I know there are many people who will see this as an attack on Kenny. Far from it. We all want what's best for Ireland and I don't think anyone could argue that having the Chelsea coach involved isn't a great thing for us. We need to keep him at all costs.

Yeah, cos the improvement couldn’t possibly be down to the manager, or other factors, such as the emergence and growing experience of the young players, the emergence of Callum Robinson as a decent striker. No, that couldn’t possibly be it.

Really, the lengths that people will go to to avoid giving Kenny any sort of credit are just bizarre.

[third policeman]

Yeah, cos the improvement couldn’t possibly be down to the manager, or other factors, such as the emergence and growing experience of the young players, the emergence of Callum Robinson as a decent striker. No, that couldn’t possibly be it.

Really, the lengths that people will go to to avoid giving Kenny any sort of credit are just bizarre.

Why is recognising the contribution of Barry a criticism of Kenny whilst crediting the improvement to the players a commendation?
Barry had clearly had an influence. If a coach wasn’t helping to improve a team’s performance there would be something wrong.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Yeah, cos the improvement couldn’t possibly be down to the manager, or other factors, such as the emergence and growing experience of the young players, the emergence of Callum Robinson as a decent striker. No, that couldn’t possibly be it.

Really, the lengths that people will go to to avoid giving Kenny any sort of credit are just bizarre.

I just gave Kenny credit in that post you quoted. It's not a criticism of Kenny to say that Barry has been vital to the improvement in performance. It's a pretty obvious fact. You just have to look at the formation and set up.

As I said, there have been improvements but that was from a very low base. We struggled for long periods against Luxembourg and the Portugal game was a turgid 0-0. Some people are getting carried away with beating Azerbaijan and Luxembourg. We have a lot of work to do but with Barry involved and some young players beginning to show promise, we could improve further.

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!!

[Fixer82]

What’s the Luxembourg manager saying about Irish staff being disrespectful?
I read his quote and can’t make sense of it

[geysir]

As Stutts pointed out, it was curious why McClean was selected ahead of Stevens. But aside from McClean making numerous basic technical errors, it should be added that he just never gives up when other players (Doherty and Hendrick) were gasping. He managed to sprint back often for defensive cover, crucially so on 2 occasions and at the end his fitness and concentration on the 90th minute, his control and execution of the cross field pass to land on a sixpence was the technical highlight of the game. Kenny did not substitute him. We won't miss him when he goes but at the same time we will miss him, his attitude is just so positive when lesser mortals would be thinking they're an imposter.

Unusually so for an almost dead rubber game, I enjoyed it immensely even through the ping pong mistakes from both teams. The atmosphere was cracking and the large raucous Irish support had a ball. We were crap in the 2nd half until suddenly we weren't, when our football began to make sense.

[Insidetherock]

would have loved to have been there, certainly sounded like a brilliant atmosphere

[geysir]

would have loved to have been there, certainly sounded like a brilliant atmosphere
Possibly you would've had to side step the footie voices imposed inside your head, your conscience telling you not to over celebrate a victory against Luxembourg, there are reductions - important reductions. It's only Luxembourg, if only the ref had allowed that Lux goal it could have been so different and Kenny only stumbled onto a substitution positive by accident. And if you do celebrate victory, remember that it was the first coach's victory. It has been scientifically proved that we were totally on the wrong path until Mr. Browne turned up and shifted our fortunes from an irreversible slide into the rabbit hole to viewing a happier tomorrow.

I remember our awful performance in scraping past Luxembourg under Charlton in our hero era, but somehow that's not of import right now.
John Giles on the Dunphy podcast conveniently forgets how his team peppered with top division players scraped by teams like this away (sometimes) and now pontificates reservedly on a 3 nil victory. Brady?? just how many times did Brady play in an Irish team which got neutered by banality on away turf, 0-1 to one of the worst teams in Europe then, Norway, and the loss to a rubbish Switzerland was pathetic then for that Irish team. Possibly my mind has been taken over by the spirit of OwlsFan and I am just channeling his thoughts, but this time I don't object.

[Olé Olé]

Possibly you would've had to side step the footie voices imposed inside your head, your conscience telling you not to over celebrate a victory against Luxembourg, there are reductions - important reductions. It's only Luxembourg, if only the ref had allowed that Lux goal it could have been so different and Kenny only stumbled onto a substitution positive by accident. And if you do celebrate victory, remember that it was the first coach's victory. It has been scientifically proved that we were totally on the wrong path until Mr. Browne turned up and shifted our fortunes from an irreversible slide into the rabbit hole to viewing a happier tomorrow.


But we dominated from 62 minutes on when Knight (not Browne) came in. Kenny has learned a lesson now with regards to playing 3 forwards/strikers there. He probably should have learned it against Azerbaijan but hopefully the penny has dropped.

Either way, all this revisionism and hypothesizing is rubbish. We had chances in the first 62 minutes too. We should have had a penalty. Duffy was pushed. A keeper that Kenny has given his head to made a top notch save. Kenny made the substitute- he didn't stumble onto it.

The game finished 3-0. If Luxembourg's goal had been allowed to stand how do you even know how the game would have finished? Why wouldn't it have been as likely to finish 3-1?

I've been dragged down the rabbit hole now but some of this talked is so frustrating.

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!

[Diggs246]

But we dominated from 62 minutes on when Knight (not Browne) came in. Kenny has learned a lesson now with regards to playing 3 forwards/strikers there. He probably should have learned it against Azerbaijan but hopefully the penny has dropped.

Either way, all this revisionism and hypothesizing is rubbish. We had chances in the first 62 minutes too. We should have had a penalty. Duffy was pushed. A keeper that Kenny has given his head to made a top notch save. Kenny made the substitute- he didn't stumble onto it.

The game finished 3-0. If Luxembourg's goal had been allowed to stand how do you even know how the game would have finished? Why wouldn't it have been as likely to finish 3-1?

I've been dragged down the rabbit hole now but some of this talked is so frustrating.

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!

Superb ending!

[Supreme feet]

Just a few thoughts on Kenny's management, might as well put them in this thread:

- We look well-coached, organised, and purposeful. There’s a cohesive gameplan, with individual players allowed to play heads-up football, unlike under Trap or MON. We have a reasonably settled core of Baz, Egan, Duffy, Doherty, Cullen, Hendrick and Robinson, with the other places up for grabs between Coleman/Omo, McClean/Stevens, Idah/Ogbene/McGrath/Knight, and decent options coming through. We’re prepared to go more direct (long passes, not aimless punts) when we’re being closed down too aggressively and can’t play through the press. Front players have the freedom to come deep if needed. There’s some flexibility in the forward line. It’s all very 'modern' and it’s very welcome.

- There aren’t any real contentious selections in the squad or starting XI. I’m happy to sacrifice Clark if it means more gametime for Nathan Collins, DOS and Omobamidele. Clark’s not going to get ahead of Egan as a LCB, so there’s no point in him coming over, training, and sitting on the bench when those mentioned would actually benefit from the experience. As for Scott Hogan, he might be a half-decent finisher in the Championship, a la Alan Lee or Leon Best; but from what I’ve seen, doesn’t have the pace, touch, mobility, power, or hold-up play to be a significant centre-forward for us on a Walters/Doyle/Long scale, and unlike Idah and Parrott, he’s not going to get better. That’s a reasonable value call from Kenny, not a stubborn decision, or one made out of spite or lack of vision.

- We’re generally playing lads in their most effective positions. We don’t have any genuinely mad stuff like the old days – Kilbane/O’Shea playing central midfield, or Simon Cox/Andy Keogh on the wing. Nobody's confused as to their role on the pitch.

- The spirit in the camp seems positive and encouraging. No unnecessary abrasiveness with the players. Nothing like Roy Keane starting fights with the likes of Walters and Arter, or holding a grudge against Damien Delaney; or Trap making an example of Andy Reid for being too creative.

- Despite 4-3-3 working well for the U21s, it was a mistake to start out developing the formation for the senior side in 2020 when we didn't have the talent at #10, or the kind of out-and-out wingers to make it work. It was a mistake to pick Travers against Serbia. It was a mistake to pick James Collins against Luxembourg at home (in fact, it's always a mistake to pick James Collins, against anybody). It was a mistake to drop McGrath and play Connolly-Idah-Parrott, with no attacking midfielder, against Azerbaijan. But Kenny has learned from those mistakes, and evidently taken up suggestions from backroom staff about how to improve things. He hasn't doubled down on his mistakes, like some of our more egotistical or tyrannical managers in the past.

[Eminence Grise]

Been busy with a new role at work so haven't been chipping in much in recent weeks... but one thing that strikes me as real progress is seeing an Irish team taking to the pitch not looking like they're two-down and beaten before the kick-off. I've been banging the drum on improving the psychology of the team since Trap's gaslighting days, and when you see how happy players are now it points to something positive happening.

[third policeman]

Yeah, cos the improvement couldn’t possibly be down to the manager, or other factors, such as the emergence and growing experience of the young players, the emergence of Callum Robinson as a decent striker. No, that couldn’t possibly be it.

Really, the lengths that people will go to to avoid giving Kenny any sort of credit are just bizarre.

[QUOTE=Supreme feet;. As for Scott Hogan, he might be a half-decent finisher in the Championship, a la Alan Lee or Leon Best; but from what I’ve seen, doesn’t have the pace, touch, mobility, power, or hold-up play to be a significant centre-forward for us on a Walters/Doyle/Long scale, and unlike Idah and Parrott, he’s not going to get better. That’s a reasonable value call from Kenny, not a stubborn decision, or one made out of spite or lack of vision.[/QUOTE]

I think it would be a reasonable call if it had an evidential basis. Hogan hasn’t played, and as far as I can recall hasn’t been picked by Kenny. He’s got a better scoring record than Collins and contrary to what you say is much more mobile and has better touch. I think it’s reasonable to question a manager who has experimented with so many players, as to why someone with a decent record in an area where we are struggling has never been picked. Sure Idah and Parrott might get better, so let’s wait for that to happen before expecting them to perform at this level. I’m not sure that Idah’s experiences to date have done a great deal for his confidence or development. The counter example would be Keane - his record is not comparable to Hogan’s averaging a goal every six games (Hogan a goal every 3 games). He’s playing in a lower level and isn’t going to get any better either. So what’s the difference. There have been hits and misses with Kenny’s selection and it’s helped him to mould a decent looking team, but there have also been strange omissions and Hogan is one of those.

[paul_oshea]

THought this article was very fair -> https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/irelands-late-late-show-offers-hope-but-the-reliance-on-shane-duffy-remains-concern-for-stephen-kenny-41051919.html

Duffys goal opened them up, this was a game too many for them, on 70 two of their players were down with cramp. Up to that point they had the better chances, just like home. 0-3 definitely flattered us.

ONe thing I was surprised not to read on the way back was Knights volley back was unreal, its one of the best pieces of individual skill I've seen in a long time, yes he wasnt marked and the defending was brutal, but the pace he was sprinting at and the height and distance to pull it back perfectly across goal like that was class. Hopefully he can get the consistency of that level of performance against better opposition.

the 1-2 around the box is being replaced more often with over the top balls or long balls from bazunu, his place kicking is unreal, its getting better each game. We're a completely different side from 12 months ago or the first handful of games like someone pointed out on another thread last week. Strategy, tactics, formation all changed - whether thats all down to Barry or Kenny or a mixture it's definitely much better than what we were initially playing under Kenny. One thing I noticed was barry warming them up right before kick off, he had them really fired up, when lux were just going through the motions.

Sadly we've got the right balance too late between youngsters and consistent more experienced players, could have been a very different campaign had that been the case from the start - that and a poor Portugal by their standards. They deserved exactly what they got in the end, and if they dont qualify they can put that down to stupid selection and gameplan against us at home.

Theres definitely a bond with the players and fans that I haven't witnessed since maybe france away 12 years ago. Seeing the players the next day all very unassuming and fairly quiet, clobber aside but thats the common malaise of all footballers, no fuss or attention. IT was refreshing, I think we've got a very good group of honest, decent lads now - perhaps the inexperience of youth or the still-finding-myself at this level but hopefully it stays that way.

[paul_oshea]

As Stutts pointed out, it was curious why McClean was selected ahead of Stevens. But aside from McClean making numerous basic technical errors, it should be added that he just never gives up when other players (Doherty and Hendrick) were gasping. He managed to sprint back often for defensive cover, crucially so on 2 occasions and at the end his fitness and concentration on the 90th minute, his control and execution of the cross field pass to land on a sixpence was the technical highlight of the game. Kenny did not substitute him. We won't miss him when he goes but at the same time we will miss him, his attitude is just so positive when lesser mortals would be thinking they're an imposter.

Unusually so for an almost dead rubber game, I enjoyed it immensely even through the ping pong mistakes from both teams. The atmosphere was cracking and the large raucous Irish support had a ball. We were crap in the 2nd half until suddenly we weren't, when our football began to make sense.

I wanted to quote this in two different pieces, but anyway ya I'm glad someone pointed out, that ball was absolutely magnificent and unlike normal mcclean he looked up and saw the space and spotted the run of Knight, again ya poor covering defensively and poor tracking(but as pointed out and to the second CTRL+B bit Lux were shagged).

We looked much better cos we had broken them, they stopped trying, werent tracking, one lad was praying putting his hands up when Ireland were on the counter, we couldnt understand in the stands what he was at at all - he wanted to come off, sometime to be doing it!

On the Brady/Giles revisionism, I've heard a lot of what they said, and things like struggling 35 years ago its very different to now when travelling, layovers, food, hotels etc are all well setup and convenient, pitches are better etc etc. But I do believe there's a little bit of jealousy on their parts.

[paul_oshea]

Been busy with a new role at work so haven't been chipping in much in recent weeks... but one thing that strikes me as real progress is seeing an Irish team taking to the pitch not looking like they're two-down and beaten before the kick-off. I've been banging the drum on improving the psychology of the team since Trap's gaslighting days, and when you see how happy players are now it points to something positive happening.

Ya I cant really describe the look on the players when they came over to the corner after Duffys goal, but it was like nothing I had seen in a very long time. They were just in awe and overwhelmingly excited and happy with a real steely determined look on their faces. They looked like lads who'd grown up together and all ended up playing football for Ireland.

[paul_oshea]

I think it would be a reasonable call if it had an evidential basis. Hogan hasn’t played, and as far as I can recall hasn’t been picked by Kenny. He’s got a better scoring record than Collins and contrary to what you say is much more mobile and has better touch. I think it’s reasonable to question a manager who has experimented with so many players, as to why someone with a decent record in an area where we are struggling has never been picked. Sure Idah and Parrott might get better, so let’s wait for that to happen before expecting them to perform at this level. I’m not sure that Idah’s experiences to date have done a great deal for his confidence or development. The counter example would be Keane - his record is not comparable to Hogan’s averaging a goal every six games (Hogan a goal every 3 games). He’s playing in a lower level and isn’t going to get any better either. So what’s the difference. There have been hits and misses with Kenny’s selection and it’s helped him to mould a decent looking team, but there have also been strange omissions and Hogan is one of those.

I generally agree with this, but I think Kenny(or andrews or barry or all 3) feels that a sacrifice is alright if its for the overall benefit of the style that the team is trying to play, that goals can come from elsewhere or others because of the way the team plays. I mentioned back before the OCtober games about Ogbene looking very good in training in the snippet the FAI had put up and would it be a surprise for him to get the nod, I think he came on as a sub and started the next game , and has proved just that. He is playing in a system that suits him and his pace and he and both Ireland are mutually benefitting. But I dont think he would have the same impact at club level, if hes just told stay on the wing all the time and out wide. Simply put we are using his best asset to its greatest effect - his pace.

[Fixer82]

Will this be the first time in years we can have a proper FAI Senior goal of the year?

[geysir]

On the Brady/Giles revisionism, I've heard a lot of what they said, and things like struggling 35 years ago its very different to now when travelling, layovers, food, hotels etc are all well setup and convenient, pitches are better etc etc. But I do believe there's a little bit of jealousy on their parts.
We have struggled most times against 5th seeded teams, no matter whether the venue was reached by charter flight or indirect flight.
In modern times 4 competitive games away against 5th seeded Georgia, single goal victories in 3 of them plus the drawn game and Mainz wasn't exactly Tiblisi.

In 1983 with Brady and a team chock full of Man U, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal players against a Maltese team of waiters and foyer attendants, it took a last minute back heel from Stapleton to win it. .
In stark contrast to all the Georgia games, Kenny is giving us jelly and ice cream.

[pineapple stu]

I'm not sure how comparable 1980s games are given they were generally played on a pitch of muck/stones/glass and the minnow could knock the ball back to the keeper every time an opposition player got within earshot.

[Stuttgart88]

Well, in the campaign Geysir refers to we beat Malta 8-0 at Dalyer (hardly a bowling green in those days - even today!) and only 1-0 away, with a goal almost as late as Ollie O'Neill's on Tuesday.

I don't think it matters how far back you go but 3 goal away wins are a rarity in any generation. We've two in a row now. Highly telegenic goals are a rarity in any generation. We've scored plenty recently.

It might mean nothing but I'm enjoying it while it lasts and this week in general has been great with the seniors, U21s and U19s. I think Irish football might be entering an exciting period. The public have really connected with the team and the Kenny project, there seems to be a great atmosphere in the squad and results and performances are improving. The young players breaking through are very promising and many have strong and identifiable connections to the domestic game.

It might be a blip or it might be the start of something like the Michael O'Neill spell at NI, the Wales revival that began with Speed or Scotland's recent burst of form.

[pineapple stu]

True on the 8-0 - the minnows rarely travelled well in those days. Heck, Malta lost 3-2 at home to Spain (an 84th minute goal) but then got thumped 12-1 in Spain. And that only mattered because Iceland held Holland at home, having been comfortably beaten away. I still think it's a different game from a different era, and not really comparable to now.

But yeah, two 3-0 away wins is certainly nice. It's partly why I'd like to see a slightly stronger Nations League group than others just to see where we're really at.

[Insidetherock]

Being honest, I'll take the handiest group possible in the NL, because if it gives you a decent chance to win the group, there are plenty upsides.

You get in amongst the big boys in NL 24, getting huge revenue and huge coverage of the game in the country

You get Pot 1 or at worst Pot 2 seedings for Euros

You get almost guaranteed play off spots for Euros if you don't qualify 1 or 2, with a better than average chance those play offs will come against the poorer Path B teams or at least the fifth best Path C teams

And you get a better than average chance of getting into WC play off spots.. Look at Austria and Hungary getting into play offs this time

The team is going to develop year on year.. getting up to a higher level can only be good in the long run.. doing it the hard way or the easy way? I'll take the easy way anytime

[ColourfulPeanut]

Yeah I don't care about testing ourselves against better teams right now. Give us the softest group possible. Win the group, get a better seeding and also basically secure a playoff spot before a ball is kicked in the 2024 qualifiers.

Getting promoted would allow us to test ourselves after that. Would also put us in a good spot to get a play-offs for the 2026 WC with a good showing against them.

[John83]

I'd agree with that. The worst sides in the NL pot are better than Luxembourg. Doing well in a weak NL group would be a big step forward.

[Insidetherock]

Yep, going into a campaign 90% assured of at least a play off would take pressure off all right

[tetsujin1979]

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