Republic of Ireland V Azerbaijan - Saturday, 4th Sep 2021 - 2022 World Cup Qualifier

[paul_oshea]

Kenny obviously doesn't rate Clark - one of those now rare Irish species, a regular EPL performer over a number of seasons. The experienced Clark would have been the obvious replacement for O'Shea. As it was, young Omobamidele did well but IMO (numerous replays, camera angles) he was all over the place for the second goal. Again, I'm unashamedly pushing Clark's case here, his ridiculous omission cost Ireland a draw at least.

Alluded to this on another chat, cant say definitively but the subs were poor, molumby couldnt judge the tempo of the game, with 10 mins to go and not looking remotely interested in attacking(everytime we got the ball we messed about up top like 2 mins were left)brining on another defender to sit in in front of the defence seemed like the sensible option and to just hold on to what we had, im sure with time everyone will see how poor portgual were on the night and how desperate they became that a draw was the least we should have achieved. Certainly I also believe having Clark in there would have made a difference too, Andrew was playing the hoofball which is funny how everyone ignores that because it suits the agenda of young blood coming in and building for a "future" campaign - that said his general defending was good.

[seanfhear]

The Belgium lunge has been a versatile rod for his back ever since. Egan, Duffy, O'Shea, Doherty and even Coleman have had their lapses too. Kenny has effectively told Clark to retire. This is a player with 274 EPL, Cup plus C'ship (34) games. I watched from Holte End in his early Villa days, delighted when he declared for us. Terrific bloke, friendly, approachable and proud of his Irish heritage. So OK, I'm a fan and biased, but no matter which way I look at it he's better than fifth, sixth or seventh choice CB. I'll end it there - with respect for the alternative views aired above.
It’s always possible that Kenny is not around that much longer as Ireland’s manager.

[pineapple stu]

Scales, Browne and Robinson added (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0903/1244523-scales-browne-and-robinson-called-up-to-ireland-squad/).

[Stuttgart88]

I like Clark too but just think it’s wildly speculative that we’d have held out if he’d come on instead of Omobamidele. As said before, every goal can be picked to pieces.

As for the claim Portugal were poor. Yeah they were. So what? A poor Portugal is still miles better than most teams we’ll play. What a miserable way to look at a game.

(Edit: Sorry just saw snapshot’s “I’ll end it there”. I’m typing while travelling so I should have left it too).

[paul_oshea]

Scales, Browne and Robinson added (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0903/1244523-scales-browne-and-robinson-called-up-to-ireland-squad/).

Not to bang on but...: D What happens if duffy or egan get injured? I don't rate scales. We're very light in the centre now, doherty was great the last day i dont want to see him play in a makeshift back 3.

"Defenders Dara O'Shea and Nathan Collins have both been ruled out of the next two games through injury, the former having to be helped off the pitch after a collision half an hour into Ireland's game against Portugal in Faro on Wednesday night."

Was it too late to call up Clark? Surely his inclusion is more merited than Scales?

[John83]

I like Clark too but just think it’s wildly speculative that we’d have held out if he’d come on instead of Omobamidele. As said before, every goal can be picked to pieces.
It certainly is, but I thought he was a bit of a passenger next to Egan and Duffy. No shame in that - they gave big performances - but it's not unreasonable to speculate either. Backs to the wall defending is far from unfamiliar to a Newcastle defender too! I hope to see more of Omobamidele, and Collins too, but Portugal away wasn't the best match to be introducing a young player. O'Shea has been given time to bed in and has been very good, and the others should get that too.

[Olé Olé]

Scales, Browne and Robinson added (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0903/1244523-scales-browne-and-robinson-called-up-to-ireland-squad/).

Robinson could be a good enhancement. Could we sacrifice McGrath for Robinson and have a front 3 i.e. 3-4-3? Or do we remove Connolly for Robinson? Omobamidele for O'Shea should be an obvious one. I hope there aren't wholesale changes as a little momentum would be nice after a decent performance.

I've offered up Connolly and McGrath as sacrificial lambs for Robinson but I don't know which I'd prefer to see play. Connolly needs minutes and games. And a goal. I think he has a lot to offer us going forward and could be worth the investment. McGrath doesn't need minutes and games but he probably does need them at international level and I'd like to see him become a part of the side or a starting option for the side based on how he fared the other night. Looks to have much more guile than Browne in that role.

I really don't know!

[pineapple stu]

Not to bang on but...: D What happens if duffy or egan get injured? I don't rate scales. We're very light in the centre now, doherty was great the last day i dont want to see him play in a makeshift back 3.

"Defenders Dara O'Shea and Nathan Collins have both been ruled out of the next two games through injury, the former having to be helped off the pitch after a collision half an hour into Ireland's game against Portugal in Faro on Wednesday night."

Was it too late to call up Clark? Surely his inclusion is more merited than Scales?
I tend to agree alright. It seems like Kenny is happier working with players he's coached at underage level. Which makes sense to an extent - there was a fear at the start of Kenny's reign that players wouldn't respond to a low-profile manager like Kenny, but Portugal away dispelled that - but when you've Darragh Lenihan starting for Blackburn every match, then I hope we're not cutting off our nose to spite our face. We've lost a centre-half through injury and while Scales can play there, he's got his transfer on the basis of being a left wingback.

Against that, it may be an indication we don't plan on going 3-5-2 for the remaining two games, so we don't mind being down a centre-half.

Obviously as a UCD fan I'm delighted for Scales, particularly given the way he was messed around on his transfer in 2019.

[John83]

Robinson in for O'Shea - the forwards provide width rather than the wing-backs, who play a little further back - is the minimalist approach. I'd like to see what the new and improved Idah can do now to bring the wide forwards into play against a weaker team. McGrath, too, could have a little more liberty against players no better than he plays every week. He's a very productive attacking mid in Scotland, so those two factors might be enough to start to see evidence of an Irish attack worth a damn again.

Someone suggested Parrott in for a midfielder too, which feels maybe too incautious to me. He could be very dangerous as a late sub though, as Azerbaijan should have to work hard against us and will tire.

[MylesNotMiley]

It's funny seeing Clark being elevated to an Irish version of Virgil Van Dijk in here.

When MON & McCarthy kept picking the "old guard" a lot of people were complaining the youngster were being ignored.

When Kenny finally drops Hendrick, I wonder how long it will take before the calls for his inclusion start?

[pineapple stu]

I don't think anyone's saying he's an Irish van Dijk.

But he's an experienced Premier League player and a seasoned international. Liam Scales is neither, by contrast.

[John83]

It's funny seeing Clark being elevated to an Irish version of Virgil Van Dijk in here.

When MON & McCarthy kept picking the "old guard" a lot of people were complaining the youngster were being ignored.

When Kenny finally drops Hendrick, I wonder how long it will take before the calls for his inclusion start?
This post is hysterical. By which I mean, it exhibits hysteria, rather than being very funny. It is kind of funny too. Care to quote any of those posts, or are you just strawmanning to troll?

[Kingdom]

last few posts on Clark...

We've Coleman, Duffy, Egan, Omabamidele, Manning and Doherty who have all in the past 12 months played as part of a 3 man centre defence at club or international level. That's before mention of Clark or Scales. We're fine for cover. If someone extraordinary happens and we lose two of those options during the game, then the option of going to a back 4 exists.

Clark - now - should only be considered as the left of a 2 man central defence, or as the centre or left of a three man defence. He is not the best option at left back, and has never been a LWB. Neither Clark or Scales was going to play in either game unless in incredible exceptional situation. I wouldn't be surprised if Omabamidele doesn't start tomorrow either to be honest. I think we could easily see us employing a very aggressive 343 with Cullen dropping deep allowing the rcb and lcb to take the ball further upfield.

We don't know if Scales is going to be international standard, we know what Clark is capable of, and rightly or wrongly (lets move on), he's not in the manager's thoughts for one of the starting 3 CB positions, or first replacement. In that regard, given his age, surely it's a fair call to give Scales a taste of the international setup, given he's proven at his current level, that he is capable of excelling (in what is a problematic position for us going back more than 10 years at this stage) and seeing what he is about? Surely that is (if not good management) prudent management?

As Stu mentions, maybe it's not going to be a 3 at the back, or certainly not a straight 3 cb back 3.

[paul_oshea]

Its not hysterical as such, polarised and funny that he needed to "join" just to post that. There is validity in the post but its just reactionary.

On the reactionary stuff the forum has been much more focused and straight down the line the last few games, evidence based opinions and fairly similar analysis, some might say boring but its been well measured.

[paul_oshea]

We don't know if Scales is going to be international standard, we know what Clark is capable of, and rightly or wrongly (lets move on), he's not in the manager's thoughts for one of the starting 3 CB positions, or first replacement. In that regard, given his age, surely it's a fair call to give Scales a taste of the international setup, given he's proven at his current level, that he is capable of excelling (in what is a problematic position for us going back more than 10 years at this stage) and seeing what he is about? Surely that is (if not good management) prudent management? .

Hes not proven though, he was very poor in two legs against Flora. Thats nothing near this level

Apologies for this though, I absolutely hate when posters pull out and quote like this from the main point being made, and then act like some one upmanship or that theyve completely nullified your post. Just wanted to say that scales is nowhere near international standard - and I'm not sure he ever will be(but on the evidence ive seen so far hes not.

[Kingdom]

The Belgium lunge has been a versatile rod for his back ever since. Egan, Duffy, O'Shea, Doherty and even Coleman have had their lapses too. Kenny has effectively told Clark to retire. This is a player with 274 EPL, Cup plus C'ship (34) games. I watched from Holte End in his early Villa days, delighted when he declared for us. Terrific bloke, friendly, approachable and proud of his Irish heritage. So OK, I'm a fan and biased, but no matter which way I look at it he's better than fifth, sixth or seventh choice CB. I'll end it there - with respect for the alternative views aired above.

I've heard about him through a friend who had dealings with him, and I've only heard good things about Clark. He's one of my favourite internationals of the past 10 yrs to be honest and have said it a few times on this forum as well. There could be an element of considering his injury record too over the past few years. In terms of availability/dependability on that front, it is an area he's weaker than duffy egan and o'shea for sure.

[pineapple stu]

We've Coleman, Duffy, Egan, Omabamidele, Manning and Doherty who have all in the past 12 months played as part of a 3 man centre defence at club or international level. That's before mention of Clark or Scales. We're fine for cover. If someone extraordinary happens and we lose two of those options during the game, then the option of going to a back 4 exists.
Not sure I fully agree with that. We have to play 4/5 of those players (depending on if we're going 3-5-2 or 4-3-3). Manning hasn't really shown enough to suggest he's at international level yet. Nor has Omabamidele or Scales*. We ended Wednesday with no other centre-half options in the squad I think. We had four, started three, and brought the fourth on through injury. We're not overflowing with options there.

Yes, bring the younger players through. We have no choice, given where we're at. But I don't think we should exclusively gamble on young prospects while ignoring solid options. And a 31-year-old with 200+ Premier League starts and 30 caps is a solid option. Ditto a 27-year-old with 200 Championship appearances.

Has Kenny discarded them? Maybe he has; maybe there's some other reason they're not in the squad. Those are the sort of decisions Kenny will survive or not by, ultimately. But I'm not sure we can really conclude that it's "prudent management". It could equally be a misjudgment by a manager biased towards players he's worked with at underage, for example.


* - Also, Scales is not proven at his current level given he's only after moving up a level. And (with reference to the Jack Byrne thread to avoid rehashing the same arguments all over) I don't think being proven at LoI level justifies inclusion in the national squad over players like Clark/Lenihan.

[Kingdom]

Robinson in for O'Shea - the forwards provide width rather than the wing-backs, who play a little further back - is the minimalist approach. I'd like to see what the new and improved Idah can do now to bring the wide forwards into play against a weaker team. McGrath, too, could have a little more liberty against players no better than he plays every week. He's a very productive attacking mid in Scotland, so those two factors might be enough to start to see evidence of an Irish attack worth a damn again.

Someone suggested Parrott in for a midfielder too, which feels maybe too incautious to me. He could be very dangerous as a late sub though, as Azerbaijan should have to work hard against us and will tire.

It was me.

It's the one thing I'm expectant of to be honest, that Parrott is going to start. He looks like he is in the process of finding himself. his last two internationals were good (awaits the standard retorts) and he is scoring and making goals. Away to Portugal, in the formation we used and the tactics we utilised, keeping him in reserve was prudent. Space between the lines could be at a premium, and the one thing that Moldova and Georgia (similar styles and personnel to the Azeri's) struggled with was McGoldrick and ODowda running directly at an angle. Parrott gives you that, and has given every team he's been successful with from what I can see. Putting Connolly and Robinson slightly withdrawn from Idah allows them to use the fb/cb channel or (in the case below) the wb/cb or rcb/cb & lcb/cb channels.

Azerbaijan mixed it up against Luxembourg. They certainly look to be defending in lines of threes, and in the following clip they are at set up as 532, 3331, 352 more so than the suggested 3-4-3 from the clips i saw earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A33-DwjXmMY
They look susceptible to good movement.

McGrath had more about him in the middle with regard to the more defensive side than I expected the other night. I don't think the suggestion of him and Cullen playing as a 2 (traditionally flat) or in a split holding, and distributing pair.

if we are expecting a tougher time of it vs Serbia, with less of the ball, and more pressing for longer, then it makes sense to let the ball do a lot of our work tomorrow, and leave the athletes (Hendrick, McClean) the night off against Azerbaijan.

Is gung-ho more reckless than incautious btw?

[John83]

It's the one thing I'm expectant of to be honest, that Parrott is going to start. He looks like he is in the process of finding himself. his last two internationals were good (awaits the standard retorts) and he is scoring and making goals.
No retorts. We don't have many players with international goals to their names, and it's not like Azerbaijan are world beaters.


if we are expecting a tougher time of it vs Serbia, with less of the ball, and more pressing for longer, then it makes sense to let the ball do a lot of our work tomorrow, and leave the athletes (Hendrick, McClean) the night off against Azerbaijan.
This is an important point. Squad management over the window is a little tricky.


Is gung-ho more reckless than incautious btw?
Yes, but more deliberate. :)

I would love to see an Irish team with the skills and set-up to go for the jugular, but I fear it'd look awfully like the 5-2 Cyprus game. Even in moderation, it could look like the Luxembourg game. Azerbaijan are a decent team defensively - they really don't get thumped - and I could see us spending an hour getting frustrated against them before compromising our own defence to seek out a winner. Maybe we should: Kenny certainly won't get any plaudits for a 0-0.

[Kingdom]

Hes not proven though, he was very poor in two legs against Flora. Thats nothing near this level

Apologies for this though, I absolutely hate when posters pull out and quote like this from the main point being made, and then act like some one upmanship or that theyve completely nullified your post. Just wanted to say that scales is nowhere near international standard - and I'm not sure he ever will be(but on the evidence ive seen so far hes not.

Sigh. Don't worry Paul, I'm not concerned so no need to apologise. No different to you not caring that I vehemently disagree with you.


Not sure I fully agree with that. We have to play 4/5 of those players (depending on if we're going 3-5-2 or 4-3-3). Manning hasn't really shown enough to suggest he's at international level yet. Nor has Omabamidele or Scales*. We ended Wednesday with no other centre-half options in the squad I think. We had four, started three, and brought the fourth on through injury. We're not overflowing with options there.

Yes, bring the younger players through. We have no choice, given where we're at. But I don't think we should exclusively gamble on young prospects while ignoring solid options. And a 31-year-old with 200+ Premier League starts and 30 caps is a solid option. Ditto a 27-year-old with 200 Championship appearances.

Has Kenny discarded them? Maybe he has; maybe there's some other reason they're not in the squad. Those are the sort of decisions Kenny will survive or not by, ultimately. But I'm not sure we can really conclude that it's "prudent management". It could equally be a misjudgment by a manager biased towards players he's worked with at underage, for example.

I don't doubt that Clark is a solid option - that much is clear. But you're right, they are accumulatively decisions that will define his reign along with the results. Of course we can't judge if it's prudent management, just like we can't judge that it's mismanagement either. I don't know if he's in the discarding game so to speak. I may have said in another post, or possibly on twitter, that if O'Shea was out, and Clark wasn't called in, then there might be something more to it. I don't know.

LWB and LB are problem positions for us. Stevens is good, and was excellent for a number of seasons for the Blades, but Doherty showed how good someone can be in that position, while allegedly crocked from 60 mins on. Who is proven there outside of those? Manning, Cunningham, nobody!
James McClean proved the other night that he's weak as an option at LWB. There was a point in time where I thought it could be the best position possible for him, but it's been shown.

On Darragh Lenihan, and sure for the craic we may as well throw in Derrick Williams while we're at it, they've been around squads for nearly 4 years now, and amounted a grand total of what, 8 caps? 3 managers have concluded that they are currently in fact not international standard, and better options exist. Scales absolutely may not be international standard. I don't disagree with that all. it would be churlish to say otherwise. But for a number of years now, I have expressed concern that when we had the opportunity to examine options for problem positions that we've not done so and persisted with players who have never made the jump.


* - Also, Scales is not proven at his current level given he's only after moving up a level. And (with reference to the Jack Byrne thread to avoid rehashing the same arguments all over) I don't think being proven at LoI level justifies inclusion in the national squad over players like Clark/Lenihan.
I think most people reading my post would have assumed that by current level, I was of course referring to what he's demonstrated for Shamrock Rovers, where he's been the standout left back/left wing back in the league. Of course i should have clearly differentiated that instead of alluding to what he's demonstrated in all those games he's played for Celtic since signing 2 days ago. I should have known better, how silly of me.


Yes, bring the younger players through. We have no choice, given where we're at. But I don't think we should exclusively gamble on young prospects while ignoring solid options. And a 31-year-old with 200+ Premier League starts and 30 caps is a solid option. Ditto a 27-year-old with 200 Championship appearances.

This is pertinent, and I'm not debating it for the craic, but really to try and underline that up to now there aren't gambles, they are necessities. It's a necessity because the last half generation has produced nothing.
Take O'Shea, Idah, Connolly, they aren't gambles.
What is the alternative to Idah and Connolly? James Collins isn't at that level. Shane Long isn't playing football, has never been prolific, and is nearing the end of his career.
Take Bazunu, Travers & Kelleher. That happened out of necessity. The alternatives were McDermott, Colin Doyle, Kieran O'hara, James Talbot. It's not a gamble, it's a necessity.
Take Scales. What are the alternatives available right now? Doherty, McClean, Manning, Williams, Cunningham. One player has shown something positive in that position. Is Clark an option there? No.

The risks or gambles I would agree that Kenny has taken, have been Knight, Molumby, and Parrott. Knight was absolutely worthwhile. the other two, I think both were worth the risk, for differing reasons - Molumby out of desperation to try and get something from an area of the pitch that we've been void of any drive or ambition for at least a campaign and a half (being generous there), and Parrott because we need some imagination.

Similar to an earlier poster, I'll stop now, to not distract further.

[MylesNotMiley]

Again, I'm unashamedly pushing Clark's case here, his ridiculous omission cost Ireland a draw at least.

And the Dutch would have won the Euros if Van Dijk wasn't injured.....:rolleyes:


Certainly I also believe having Clark in there would have made a difference too, Andrew was playing the hoofball which is funny how everyone ignores that because it suits the agenda of young blood coming in and building for a "future" campaign - that said his general defending was good.

Clark is well used to be playing hoofball with Ireland in the past - he was quite good at it, if I remember correctly. He's also fond of 'hoofing' when he occasionally gets in the Newcastle team under Steve Bruce.


Its not hysterical as such, polarised and funny that he needed to "join" just to post that. There is validity in the post but its just reactionary.


Sorry, I didn't realize I needed a certain amount of posts to comment in a thread with all the "real" fans.

[pineapple stu]

I actually agree with most of what you've said there - though you've misinterpreted a couple of things I said. I absolutely accept our gambles aren't really that (beggars can't be choosers), I don't think we should exclusively look to them.

Yes, we don't have alternative keepers, so we're stuck with Kelleher/Travers/Bazunu and hoping they learn on the job. But the alternative to Scales/Omadamibele is established players in Lenihan/Clark. Centre-back is an active problem for us in that we only have three (Duffy, Egan, Omadamibele) in the squad, and if we need another choice (like we did on Wednesday), we're shoe-horning players into positions that maybe they've played before, but it's not their usual or most effective ones. So why not call up both Scales and Clark? Best of both worlds as I see it.

(I figured you were talking about Scales at Rovers rather than Celtic, btw, which is why I tried to hedge my bets by covering both levels in my reply. I don't think excelling with Rovers de facto justifies an international call-up over players established at a higher level)

[paul_oshea]

The other thing people are forgetting is 3 games in 9 days is an awful lot, we cant be expected to have all the same players starting, or perhaps even all the back 5/4 starting either, even if they are our strongest line in our 11. I'd much preter Clark coming on against Serbia than say Manning or Scales and I think most would.

[DeLorean]

3 games in 7 days as it happens.

[seanfhear]

3 games in 7 days as it happens.
It all suits the stronger Nations with Big Panels of a decent quality to choose from. It will be a really big surprise if a bigger football Nations do not qualify with the way it is now.

[pineapple stu]

Is this not just because covid compressed the available time for qualifying? Or is 3 games in a week to be s regular thing?

[elatedscum]

Is this not just because covid compressed the available time for qualifying? Or is 3 games in a week to be s regular thing?


it goes back to 2 after this set of games.

[pineapple stu]

And won't come back next campaign?

(10 games is 3/3/2/2, so it had to change - but hopefully 5 double-headers for next campaign)

[Stuttgart88]

Just on Scales, he’s had a near-flawless domestic season and has been almost ever-present for Rovers I think. He’s a really classy footballer and at U21 level looked better than the much heralded (at the time) Masterson in my opinion. Sure he was poor against Flora Tallinn as were all of Rovers’ defenders really. Hard to see why one wouldn’t rate him. That’s not to say he’s ready for this level of football and of course he may never be, but he has literally been outstanding this season. He’s one to keep an interested eye on I’d say.

[kennedmc]

I tend to agree alright. It seems like Kenny is happier working with players he's coached at underage level. Which makes sense to an extent

That wouldn't make any sense to me and is a major concern. He has to pick the best players available to him, that will help him win matches.

He's an international manager, not a club manager! No hiding behind picking younger players.

He needs to learn faster in the job. Playing out back from the back at ALL times, as opposed to at the RIGHT times was a disaster waiting to happen esp when Bazunu doesn't look comfortable with ball at feet.

Plus I feel we are too open in midfield and to easy to play through

I want minimum 4 points from next 2 games and 2 strong petformances. These games are more important than Portugal as that was a shot to nothing.

[passinginterest]

Bazunu doesn't look comfortable with ball at feet.

Plus I feel we are too open in midfield and to easy to play through



These two statements make me question if you watched the game at all? If anything Bazunu is a bit too comfortable with the ball at his feet so he gets a bit casual.

Did Portugal create more than a single chance playing through the middle? They resorted to lobbing in crosses to eventually get a breakthrough. It was one of the few games I can recall where the middle never really got opened up.

[kennedmc]

These two statements make me question if you watched the game at all? If anything Bazunu is a bit too comfortable with the ball at his feet so he gets a bit casual.

Did Portugal create more than a single chance playing through the middle? They resorted to lobbing in crosses to eventually get a breakthrough. It was one of the few games I can recall where the middle never really got opened up.

I'm talking about under Kenny in general I think we have been too open so far.

I also think Bazunu is a very promising keeper for a 19 year old but he made 2 massive mistakes the other night, as well as doing some great stuff.

The underhit pass that led to the peno and he let a soft shot through his legs which he was lucky to recover from.

I'd personally go for Kelleher at the moment.

[Razors left peg]

IF (and Im aware its a big if) we win all our remaining games can we still qualify?

IF we play like we did during the week in next 2 games we could get 6 points. Pick up another 3 points away to Azerbaijan and we will heading into a home game with an already qualified Portugal.

Its a long shot, but these 2 games are huge to give us a glimmer of hope

[pineapple stu]

Well we're not at the half-way point of the group yet, so yes.

Won't happen of course.

[EAFC_rdfl]

I'm talking about under Kenny in general I think we have been too open so far.

I also think Bazunu is a very promising keeper for a 19 year old but he made 2 massive mistakes the other night, as well as doing some great stuff.

The underhit pass that led to the peno and he let a soft shot through his legs which he was lucky to recover from.

I'd personally go for Kelleher at the moment.

Why lucky? I thought it was extremely sharp reactions, he was straight on to it after he made the initial mistake. How many keepers have made the same flap only to dwell on the mistake and let the ball in? I was actually very impressed with his recovery watching live. He may have got a bit of help from the post too

[Razors left peg]

Well we're not at the half-way point of the group yet, so yes.

Won't happen of course.

I wouldnt rule it out if this weeks performance becomes consistent

[pineapple stu]

Well that's a big if. Like, I hope it happens, but the Azeri game is a different kettle of fish entirely to the Portugal game, and the same performance won't necessarily work. We need to see urgency and clinicalness in front of goal and Andorra aside, we've been awful at that since before Kenny. I think we rode our luck against Portugal to a big extent too. That's part of football of course, and we were probably due, but it doesn't mean we'll keep doing it.

But let's see.

[geysir]

The other thing people are forgetting is 3 games in 9 days is an awful lot, we cant be expected to have all the same players starting, or perhaps even all the back 5/4 starting either, even if they are our strongest line in our 11. I'd much preter Clark coming on against Serbia than say Manning or Scales and I think most would. When did you become favourable towards Clark's potential for us in defense, when he hit 30 years of age? or was it much later? Were you not one of those regularly questioning his ability at Irish intl level?
I have always appreciated Clark and don't understand why he's not in the squad. Possibly Kenny wants to have a balance of experience along with emerging talent in the squad and questions of that policy inevitably pop up when the experienced lads fall down with injuries. But the 2nd goal in Faro was 99% a Ronaldo coup de grace.

[elatedscum]

I don't think anyone would argue that Scales should be in the squad ahead of Clark. Kenny's not an idiot, there has to be more to it. I'm not saying he didn't leave him out of the initial squad willingly but there's got to be a reason, be it a falling out or whatever, a covid issue, a fitness issue, a personal issue, that led Clark not to be in the squad once a centre half got injured (let alone two).

i found it interesting people saying that he was pre-disposed to Scales because he worked with him at 21s. Interestingly, he was the 4th choice centre half. O'Shea and Masterson were the starters the whole campaign with Collins the third choice and Scales fourth. At left back it was Leahy first choice and another (Clarke, then Wilson, then Ledwidge, then Thomas O'Connor). Obviously selecting him initially was somewhat controversial with players like Ryan Nolan generally highly rated when Kenny took over...

Lenihan is less of a no-brainer because he's been poor in his two caps, not really fair to judge a player negatively on two caps, but he really struggled. i wouldn't want him to play an important game unless he proved it in a friendly first.

Derrick Williams must be due to issues with covid and travel to the US and quarantine, he's had 3 good games for ireland and he's getting his game for one of the better sides in the MLS...

[Bielsa´s irish]

I would have Clark and the Gallagher guy from USA league. He seems diferent from what Ireland have and he is ver y creative.

[paul_oshea]

Well we're not at the half-way point of the group yet, so yes.

Won't happen of course.

How does half way mean anything? Work out the stats for groups and at what point it's not half.

I actually don't think a point or 0 against Portugal did or would make any difference. Just disappointed they dropped points against Serbia and not us they love conceding goals do Portugal

[paul_oshea]

I watched Serbia v Azerbaijan a good chunk of it they were no great shakes Serbia against Azerbaijan but by the same token we'd struggle against Azerbaijan in Baku if they play like they did that night. I thought a couple of teams in this group would drop points to them. There's still a chance ! For us but not anyone else!

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Encouraging signs against Portugal the other night. I think the way Portugal were set up suited us, we could defend and find space on the break. It will be interesting to see if we can break down Azerbaijan. We still haven't scored many goals from open play in recent times. All the talk of us having an awful squad, it's no worse than McCarthy had and it looks like we have some serious potential coming through. I still don't think Kenny is the man to have in place to bring these through. But he made one great decision during his reign.

That was getting Anthony Barry on board. This guy is excellent. Moving away from Kenny's 4-3-3 to a 3-5-2 is clearly Barry's influence. Our set pieces have improved drastically, players seem to be gaining confidence in the system. The question is always asked, who can we get as manager anyway if we get rid of Kenny? Well, he's already there but obviously, he may be a top class coach, that doesn't mean he'd be a top class manager. Still, a young innovative and highly respected coach (see his Chelsea reviews) is someone I think would be an ideal candidate to develop the young talent emerging.

We should beat Azerbaijan 3-0.

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!

[paul_oshea]

When did you become favourable towards Clark's potential for us in defense, when he hit 30 years of age? or was it much later? Were you not one of those regularly questioning his ability at Irish intl level?
I have always appreciated Clark and don't understand why he's not in the squad. Possibly Kenny wants to have a balance of experience along with emerging talent in the squad and questions of that policy inevitably pop up when the experienced lads fall down with injuries. But the 2nd goal in Faro was 99% a Ronaldo coup de grace.

Ya I think it's fairly futile of me to try and argue the point too much, but as much or as little I've watched Ronaldo that little false sense of security trick coming back in from offside, wrong footing the defender always finding the area where the ball will naturally arrive and then the leap... is it me or has the majority of those goals come late in the game? Certainly feels like last 30 mins or so. Yes he's a freak of nature with his leap , power and redirection but I still think there's things to do leading up to that especially late in the game when defenders are tired and you've a manager nerdy for stats and details. But I won't labour that point anymore.

On the Clark thing I don't think I ever sang his virtues from the rafters, but this is just a fairly sensible inclusion.

On stutts point about scales, where else but against a slightly superior opposition to he used to facing can you judge his level ? I mean I'm deadly at table tennis against anyone I know : ) doesn't mean I'm any good!

[paul_oshea]

Encouraging signs against Portugal the other night. I think the way Portugal were set up suited us, we could defend and find space on the break. It will be interesting to see if we can break down Azerbaijan. We still haven't scored many goals from open play in recent times. All the talk of us having an awful squad, it's no worse than McCarthy had and it looks like we have some serious potential coming through. I still don't think Kenny is the man to have in place to bring these through. But he made one great decision during his reign.

That was getting Anthony Barry on board. This guy is excellent. Moving away from Kenny's 4-3-3 to a 3-5-2 is clearly Barry's influence. Our set pieces have improved drastically, players seem to be gaining confidence in the system. The question is always asked, who can we get as manager anyway if we get rid of Kenny? Well, he's already there but obviously, he may be a top class coach, that doesn't mean he'd be a top class manager. Still, a young innovative and highly respected coach (see his Chelsea reviews) is someone I think would be an ideal candidate to develop the young talent emerging.

We should beat Azerbaijan 3-0.

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!

Are you suggesting Kenny wasn't forced into the change but actually thought into the change ? That it's Barry that has seen things drastically change since before summer. And the Hungary, Andorra and Portugal performances are his influence and change bearing fruit?

I mean the contrast in play and organisation between the first few games and the last 2/3 has been huge

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Are you suggesting Kenny wasn't forced into the change but actually thought into the change ? That it's Barry that has seen things drastically change since before summer. And the Hungary, Andorra and Portugal performances are his influence and change bearing fruit?

I mean the contrast in play and organisation between the first few games and the last 2/3 has been huge

I think Barry's influence can't be underestimated. Any videos I've been able to see from training sessions are dominated by Barry. Obviously he's the coach but he's also a far superior communicator and is clearly getting the message across. Kenny is a 4-3-3 man and even went back to that after 3-5-2 was tried. Usually a good sign of organisation is at set pieces. There's been a clear improvement in this area since Barry came on board, attack and defensively. I'd give him the job. Kenny is a nice man but clearly out of his depth.

[Olé Olé]

Dan McDonnell has a probable line up in the Indo which is surely based on decent info but there are a few changes I didn't expect.

Bazunu
Coleman Duffy Egan
Doherty Cullen Hourihane Manning
Horgan Idah Robinson

[Bielsa´s irish]

I would go this team tomorrow

..,...,...,.. bazunu ......
Obomamidele Duffy. Egan

Coleman Cullen jeff. Matty

Robinson/idah. Mcgrath

Connolly
.,..,.........,................................... ...

[Bielsa´s irish]

If Robinsón is ok I play him and rest Idah for second half. Energy wise. I would also play Collins to pressure them. Would play an old fahioned 9

[Bielsa´s irish]

I would test a few the thing is Arter and Molumby arent playing and they are in a certain position. I would start Arter for Hendrick though to have and experience there and hendrick may be weary