Portugal V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 1st Sep 2021 - 2022 World Cup Qualifier

[pineapple stu]

So...what are we looking at this evening?

Pros
Portugal flattered to deceive a bit at the Euros, albeit with a very tough draw
Shane Duffy can play a bit again
Ronaldo is certain to start, and Portugal are slightly worse with him in the team these days
It's not entirely clear if the manager knows where Ireland is, and they may have scouted the wrong team

Cons
There'll presumably be a big home crowd and no away fans
Ronaldo wants the record
Portugal get to put out ten other players who are almost all world class
We are ****e

I think I'd be happy with damage limitation and a repeat of the 3-0 scoreline from Wembley last year (which really could have been more if England were bothered), and let Ronaldo get his record so we can share his place in the record books :). I think this game is pretty much entirely separate from the other two (home to Azerbaijan/Serbia) unless we end up losing 7-0 and have a big crisis of confidence going into them, but touch wood that won't happen. (Though I can't quite go so far as to definitely say it won't!)

[paul_oshea]

At this stage no poor performance is acceptable, so you can't just discount this game and hope for better for the next two. The problem for us at the moment which is not in our control or any smaller younger squads is 3 days over 7 days or so. It's a huge ask especially with all the flying involved( although Serbia had it worse I think) even if this set of fixtures is lucky for us. You can't afford to focus on 2/3 games but yet if the third one is your most winnable ( which it isn't again in this round of fixtures) it adds even more pressure. If we're hockeyed by Portugal, come out with a draw against Azerbaijan it leaves us in a terrible state of mind heading into Serbia. I think dealing with this kind of mental and physical dilemna is going to be a big issue for us.

[EAFC_rdfl]

I thought it was reported that the crowd will be something like 8 or 9 thousand tonight

[paul_oshea]

Just undr 8 I believe, a 7 and I think a 9 and 5 somewhere in there!

[passinginterest]

Fairly sure it's 25% capacity and just under 8k but can't remember where I saw that. Maybe it's just the usual match day optimism, but I expect us to keep it tight and make it very awkward for Portugal. I don't think we'll concede more than 2 and if we nick one at the other end there's a chance we get away with a draw. Obvious concern is in midfield, really only Cullen playing regularly so far this season and whoever is selected will need to put in a massive shift. Hopefully if there's evidence that lads have run themselves into the ground after 55 minutes there's no hesitation in brining in fresh legs early. With three games in seven days, he's probably going to have to use all the midfielders in the squad at some stage anyway. Expecting some variation of 3-5-2 or more realistically it'll be closer to a 5-4-1 or 5-3-1-1. Wouldn't mind seeing Long given the job of leading the line from the start for his experience with Parrot dropping into the deeper role and helping the midfield.

[jbyrne]

if we mix it up a bit like we did against hungary then i think 2-0 at worst. we have to get in around them and basically annoy them at every turn.
if we fanny around with the ball with no purpose it will be a very long night. we have to get the ball into their half as quick as possible with purpose by playing up the wings rather than through the middle of the pitch.

[paul_oshea]

I think that's the first time we've ever had fanny about used on this forum but it couldn't be more pertinent to our performances of late! Agreed.

[Stuttgart88]

if we mix it up a bit like we did against hungary then i think 2-0 at worst. we have to get in around them and basically annoy them at every turn.
if we fanny around with the ball with no purpose it will be a very long night. we have to get the ball into their half as quick as possible with purpose by playing up the wings rather than through the middle of the pitch.Yep I agree we have to be annoying them at every turn too.

Define purpose though. I'm no fan of short passes from the goalkeeper but if the objective of a passing game is to create space by committing the opposition press and beating it, then that's surely a purpose?

We all know that the notion of Ireland being allowed to go all tikka takka in Portugal is fantasy stuff, so the best we can hope for is to be able to mix it up. We’ll have to use our wits out there tonight but I’d still hope that always our instinct is to trust ourselves on the ball and not panic because you’re at risk of being tackled. Being careless, playing speculative passes and losing the ball quickly and cheaply will only play into Portugal’s hands. I reckon we’ll have more opportunity from wide areas too, but often getting the ball into a dangerous wide area by creating an overload comes from making progress through the middle. Germany found weakness in Portugal’s flanks but not by playing the ball up the touchline from fullback.

I’d be keen to see Horgan start. We’ll struggle to pass our way through Portugal’s lines so we could do with someone who can carry the ball.

[NeverFeltBetter]

A 2-0 loss wouldn't have me too dissapointed. Even 3-0 if we looked somewhat respectable. That's the limit of my ambitions. If we scored I'd be stunned.

[Diggs246]

Wow. Come on guys. We might and probably will get beaten. But dont ever ever be satisfied with a defeat.

[pineapple stu]

In fairness, we have to have some bit of realism about this evening.

Azerbaijan is a bigger game in that if we don't win that - or at least play well and be unlucky - there's serious alarm bells starting to ring. Tonight I'm almost not worried about in a way (so long as we don't really get shown up)

[jbyrne]

In fairness, we have to have some bit of realism about this evening.

Azerbaijan is a bigger game in that if we don't win that - or at least play well and be unlucky - there's serious alarm bells starting to ring. Tonight I'm almost not worried about in a way (so long as we don't really get shown up)

Azerbaijan is must win. no excuses.
if we don't win there is a real possibility (almost certainty) that we could finish last in the group. that would be unthinkable really

[John83]

Azerbaijan is must win. no excuses.
if we don't win there is a real possibility (almost certainty) that we could finish last in the group. that would be unthinkable really
I agree; it's as close to a must-win as any game this early in a campaign. Azerbaijan is on Luxembourg's level. One defeat at that level is crap. Two would be cause for a resignation, not that I expect it of Kenny.

[jbyrne]

20 years to the day since the 1-0 win over a star studded holland...... and we only had 10 men for much of that game!

[Diggs246]

It's sad really, 20 years later and we are out after 2 games

[Kingdom]

I've constantly said that we've not reached the nadir, and I stand by that statement. We could reach it tonight.
As someone (can't remember who) said to me recently, despite all the criticism, all the whinging, all the fantasism, we've actually not had a hammering yet by anyone under Kenny. And that's correct, statistically - irrespective of the opposition we've faced.

I've a real fear that tonight could be that night - the night we reach our nadir, and the night we take a hammering. But, alternatively, I also think that tonight's game is totally disconnected to the other two. Nobody is expecting anything (I'd suspect even the players might have such thoughts) from tonight, bar a defeat and the possibility of some encouraging signs in the performance. not that should be acceptable, but there's got to be realism as to our current state of affairs, which now clearly and undeniably run beyond the manager's stewardship.

Lets assume Portugal are going to have chances - due to the way we're trying to play, their ability, and the recent signs that we are both conceding possession and gifting weaker teams chances. Assuming, and history points this way, that we are somewhat expansive (in so far as we won't defend deep and compact) and look to get our foot on the ball, then we could have a long uncomfortable night ahead of us.
I think Ronaldo going for the record is problematic for us in two ways. They'll keep the foot on the throat to get him his goal, and if he gets one early in the game, they'll go like the clappers to try and ensure he gets more, given they have the qatar game next before going to Baku.
as I said, I'm fearful tonight, I think we could be on the end of something really ugly, 5, 6 or 7 isn't beyond the realms....if a portugal team warming up for a world cup can put 5 against a better Irish side than the one we're likely to see tonight, then....

I'm very interested in how Duffy does tonight - I assume he'll be selected. I'm vocal in that he wouldn't be in my team, but I'm humble enough to acknowledge that he's started the season in seemingly fine form and there can be no quibble over his selection if it happens. But a commanding performance against Homoerectus Wood is not the same as facing Portugal, so I'll be interested to see what

Part of my is fascinated by where we are in terms of selection (both team and squad). As above, personally I'd totally disconnect tonight and Saturday. If anything I'd look at tonight as the bookend of a pretty shít two years. And Saturday is the beginning - either the beginning of the end, or the beginning of the start :-)
What do we know of Kenny?
He's loyal - but not to a fault.
He's happy to rotate between games, and between ambitions.
He's able to switch between formations.

I would not be surprised to see Hendrick and Hourihane chaperone Cullen in midfield, both for experience to provide cover for the wing backs or full backs between the lines, before being expended for Azerbaijan on Saturday. I do think that's a realistic possibility. Likewise we know that he's going to have his teams pressing high up the pitch, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see more energetic athletic players starting in the front 3 or 4. That would mean McClean, Long, Connolly (who did a great job of this in tandem with Idah the last time they started together).
I've not been home to Ireland in nearly 3 years, but I'm going back for the Azerbaijan game, as I really do think it's the start of something new.

[Kingdom]

Assuming we lose tonight - I know, I know, pessimism and all that - but assuming it... if we won every other game in the group, and avoided defeat to Portugal in Dublin, would that be enough for posters here to see Kenny stay on for the Nations League?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I suppose. In that event you'd have signs of progression for sure, and beating Serbia would be an achievement.

[Diggs246]

Agreed that would be progression and he would deserve the NL, but realism is out the window, if we get beaten 6 or 7 tonight and then think we can show Serbia a thing or two about a little game called football!

[pineapple stu]

I've constantly said that we've not reached the nadir, and I stand by that statement. We could reach it tonight.
Much and all as a hammering is a nagging worry (there I go again! :) ) in the back of my mind, would a 1-0 defeat on Tuesday be more or less of a nadir than a 5-0 tonight?

Certainly I can't quite remember the last time I was so downbeat about our chances a game, if ever.

[lofty9]

I've no idea how bad we are or if the group is at rock bottom. Never have I seen such a lack of support for a developing team though, social media currently is a cesspit read for anyone who has any optimism in the nation's team going forward. Heavy defeat predicted by the masses, I personally can't see it.

I was heavily invested in Portugal in the euros as I got them in one of those £20 quid per month draws. Watching them, they conceded lots of chances and were turd, yep, got sweet FA back. On tonight, their players focusing on Ronaldo breaking the record could actually hinder them rather than help them and could take away from any game plan they have been instructed to carry out. That's my tuppence worth. As optimistic as I possibly can be.

[John83]

Assuming we lose tonight - I know, I know, pessimism and all that - but assuming it... if we won every other game in the group, and avoided defeat to Portugal in Dublin, would that be enough for posters here to see Kenny stay on for the Nations League?
Yes. Going from one win in 13 (and that vs Andorra in a friendly) to multiple competitive wins in a row and a draw with Portugal would be an astonishing turnaround.

[RiffRaff]

Not expecting a result tonight but I am expecting a bit of courage. The nature of the performances under Kenny are very disappointing and the slow, passing tempo makes them team look lazy when things are not going right. Being written off and ridiculed should inspire the players and Kenny to prove people wrong. If we lose as timidly as we did in the friendly against England, I think it should be the end for Kenny regardless of the other 2 results.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes. Going from one win in 13 (and that vs Andorra in a friendly) to multiple competitive wins in a row and a draw with Portugal would be an astonishing turnaround.It has to start somewhere!

I've no expectations either. I don't have a checklist of what I want to see other than RiffRaff's courage being the minimum, or what scoreline I'll tolerate. I'll know a creditable showing if and when I see it. Hungary really gave them a scare in the Euros and lost 3-0 in the end. If our game panned out the same way I can't say I'd be unhappy.

[passinginterest]

Courage, hunger, fight, with a bit of added ambition, creativity and composure. No too much to ask for I hope. It's going to be the beginning of something one way or the other, the end or a new era.

[geysir]

Courage on its own is not enough, it has to be moral courage.

[elatedscum]

Certainly I can't quite remember the last time I was so downbeat about our chances a game, if ever.

I don’t think I’ve been this pessimistic about our chances of a result since we beat the Germans

[Kingdom]

Much and all as a hammering is a nagging worry (there I go again! :) ) in the back of my mind, would a 1-0 defeat on Tuesday be more or less of a nadir than a 5-0 tonight?

Certainly I can't quite remember the last time I was so downbeat about our chances a game, if ever.

Technically you couldn't go from a nadir to a nadir, so I would say that a 1-0 defeat at home to Azerbaijan would indeed usurp a nadir of a tanking in Faro.

I'm not actually downbeat about tonight, but more upbeat about saturday.

[Kingdom]

It has to start somewhere!

I've no expectations either. I don't have a checklist of what I want to see other than RiffRaff's courage being the minimum, or what scoreline I'll tolerate. I'll know a creditable showing if and when I see it. Hungary really gave them a scare in the Euros and lost 3-0 in the end. If our game panned out the same way I can't say I'd be unhappy.

That's an interesting point, but I think you'll agree, such an outcome (a 3-0 defeat) is only going to be digested one way, regardless of the manner of the defeat, or the style in executing the 3-0 defeat: a slaughtering of the manager and players associated with him - among the masses.
Would you agree?

[zero]

This is a bit of a free hit for Kenny so any suggestions that tonight's result would put him in jeopardy seem wide of the mark. Perhaps if we really got a tanking that could be reviewed...

If we come out of the 3 games with fewer than 4 points I think that would show a distinct lack of progress.

[Stuttgart88]

That's an interesting point, but I think you'll agree, such an outcome (a 3-0 defeat) is only going to be digested one way, regardless of the manner of the defeat, or the style in executing the 3-0 defeat: a slaughtering of the manager and players associated with him - among the masses.
Would you agree?

I'm not sure I would. It's an extreme example but I'd like to think if we lost 3-0 as "well" as Hungary did it'd be seen as a gutsy creditable showing. But if he lose 3-0 by lying down and having our tummies tickled it'll be different. But I'd also expect some people not to watch the game and only see the result and think what you're expecting.

[Diggs246]

I think the key game for kenny and his survival is Azerbaijan.
If we pick up a point tonight or v Serbia. A draw v Azerbaijan that would just about save him. However if we were lose tonight 1-0 and lose to Azerbaijan I think he is a goner, even if we take something off Serbia

[Kingdom]

I'm not sure I would. It's an extreme example but I'd like to think if we lost 3-0 as "well" as Hungary did it'd be seen as a gutsy creditable showing. But if he lose 3-0 by lying down and having our tummies tickled it'll be different. But I'd also expect some people not to watch the game and only see the result and think what you're expecting.

The King 3-0 in Germany: "Courageous defeat with weakened team" or "meek belly-tickle"? I can't remember, but I do remember King getting slaughtered after the game.

[SkStu]

Far better Irish teams than this have been dissected and destroyed by Portugal before. Worth remembering when the final whistle goes and the result and performance analysed.

I'm looking for a continuation of the cohesion in the formation and approach that was evident against Hungary; the continuation of a more hybrid style (possession first but direct when warranted); and a few chances or moments of excitement to get me off my couch. Courageousness, guts and a bit of fight should be a given.

[brine3]

20/1. Can't remember seeing worse odds for an Irish win. Maybe a euro just in case? 😀

[elatedscum]

it's a weird one - this feels in some respects like the least disrupted squad Kenny has had so far and yet, it's still missing 5 or 6 players who could legitimately start (Robinson, Stevens, Knight, McCarthy, Browne, Brady) and a few squad players (Ogbene, O'Dowda, Travers).

probably an expression of the luck Kenny has had so far...

[brine3]

Brady still doesn't have a new club, as far as I know. The English leagues are grinding up our players and spitting them out.

[elatedscum]

Brady still doesn't have a new club, as far as I know. The English leagues are grinding up our players and spitting them out.

rumours linking him to a team in the turkish super league i believe

[elatedscum]

Bazunu

Coleman Egan Duffy O'Shea Doherty

McGrath Cullen Hendrick

Connolly Idah

[elatedscum]

i think that's pretty much the team i would have expected, probably with the exception of Molumby ahead of McGrath. No complaints really. Cullen and McGrath were the only two midfielders who have played this season. Hendrick, Molumby, Hourihane and Arter were all lacking

[DeLorean]

The King 3-0 in Germany: "Courageous defeat with weakened team" or "meek belly-tickle"? I can't remember, but I do remember King getting slaughtered after the game.

He certainly wasn't slaughtered because we lost 3-0 in itself anyway. He didn't even make a substitution such was his desire not to jeaporadise his badge of honour 2-0 defeat, then lamented the cruel insurance goal in the aftermath as if it was the make or break moment of the night. It was so small time it was untrue.

[SkStu]

i think that's pretty much the team i would have expected, probably with the exception of Molumby ahead of McGrath. No complaints really. Cullen and McGrath were the only two midfielders who have played this season. Hendrick, Molumby, Hourihane and Arter were all lacking

Really brave to go with McGrath though, all things considered. Fair play to SK... i think :)

Hendrick has got to rediscover his b0llocks.

[EalingGreen]

I think Ronaldo going for the record is problematic for us in two ways. They'll keep the foot on the throat to get him his goal, and if he gets one early in the game, they'll go like the clappers to try and ensure he gets more, given they have the qatar game next before going to Baku.
as I said, I'm fearful tonight, I think we could be on the end of something really ugly, 5, 6 or 7
I was at Ronaldo's 100th cap, at home to NI in a qualifier in Porto in 2012.

Big presentation to him beforehand etc- basically the whole evening was "The Ronnie Show".

Anyhow, for the first 30 mins of the game, it was all about him, demanding the ball at every opportunity, dribbling or shooting from every distance and angle, mostly down their right flank where he got no joy against our LB, Ryan McGivern. Seriously. That Ryan McGivern! :D

So for the next 30 mins he switched to their left, where RB Aaron Hughes dealt with him equally comnfortably.

And for the last 30 mins, he just wandered all over the pitch, pointing and gesticulating to his teammates, whose fault this all clearly was.

Meanwhile, Niall McGinn had given us the lead on the half hour, which we deservedly held until 10 mins to go, when (Spurs flop) Helder Postiga scrambled in the equaliser.

It was clear that the Portugese Coach, Paulo Bento had absolutely no control over matters from the touchline, and it was no surprise when he was sacked a few games later.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/19977579.amp

Maybe you'll get a repeat tonight?

Otoh, when Portugal came to Belfast for the return game a few months later, a half-fit but brilliant Ronaldo scored a hat-trick, as they humped us 4-2! :D

[tetsujin1979]

Portugal's team is just indecent
1433123563968634880

[seanfhear]

Under achievers at the Euros though.

[paul_oshea]

Who's out cos of covid?

[paul_oshea]

Shane Long has been ruled out of the match as a result of a positive Covid-19 test.

[paul_oshea]

Kenny must have read everything on here from stu and disregarded his opinion, and selected bazunu anyway

[mark12345]

Kenny must have read everything on here from stu and disregarded his opinion, and selected bazunu anyway

Anyone know of a link to watch the game?

[paul_oshea]

Brady thinks Kenny doesn't sound confident at all, that's he learnt molumby and Cullen aren't capable of playing the midfield possession game and so he's had to learn to become more pragmatic.

Didi says more ways to win games than one, teams have to find ways to win.