Portugal V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 1st Sep 2021 - 2022 World Cup Qualifier

[brine3]

So you agree we don't have a Premier League starter in nets to use as an equivalent for Hourihane?


Matt Doherty has done nothing for us lately. Gary Kelly was a seriously good player with a cracking (if unsustainable) Leeds team who reached the CL semifinals.

You could maybe make a case for Coleman over Kenna alright, though even then Kenna's the one with a Premier League winner's medal.

"Could maybe"? Coleman one of the best right backs in our entire history.

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough - so one player from the current squad would make the team at what felt like a dark time for the national team, and even then he's replacing a Premier League winner. Doesn't really change the point being made, does it?

[Diggs246]

Fair enough - so one player from the current squad would make the team at what felt like a dark time for the national team, and even then he's replacing a Premier League winner. Doesn't really change the point being made, does it?

To be extra accurate to give the full picture. I think if you checked some of those players ages they were probably in their 30s

[Trequartista20]

Kenna didn't join until Blackburn in March of 1995, making only 9 appearances - not enough for a medal.

In any case, the Premier League of the mid 90s when Irish players just had to compete with the best that Britain had to offer, a few mediocre Scandinavians and only a handful of other more exotic names bears no real comparison with the ultra-cosmopolitan multi-billion pound monolitith of today.

I'd say a fair few of the team that faced Holland in '95 would be no more than Championship players by today's standards.

[John83]

It's definitely a more competitive league now. Back then, the talent went to Italy and Spain. England was a relative backwater until Abramovich bought Chelsea.

I think the optimism about the younger players isn't misplaced, but it is too optimistic on time frame. It'll take more than one wave to make the team strong again. Probably we need the current batch to get another 4-8 seasons under their belts before the team will hit another peak because of the void of senior talent. It takes time for all but the most outrageously talented players to really add steel to a team, and we probably need another wave of good youngsters behind them to fill out the squad.

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough - I knew Kenna joined mid-season, but didn't realise he'd joined too late to get a medal.

It's always difficult comparing teams across generations for the reason you note. Plus there's been advancements in training, nutrition, and so on. And of course the likes of Aldo and McGrath were nearing the end of their careers so should be judged as the 36/37-year-old them, not necessarily as the peak we want to remember.

But even with all that, who would you not take from that team and put onto the pitch on Wednesday?

[John83]

But even with all that, who would you not take from that team and put onto the pitch on Wednesday?
Phil Babb.

[pineapple stu]

At the start of his Liverpool career and 15 months on from a ridiculously assured performance at the World Cup, particularly against Italy? I'd have him over Egan, a Championship player, I think.

[Diggs246]

Remember Breen at west ham. He was a disgrace but when the green jersey went on he was excellent

[Colbert Report]

Does anyone know why Scott Hogan of Birmingham was not called up into this squad?

[sadloserkid]

Apparently it was discovered that he misplaced a pass once.

[Trequartista20]

Phil Babb is certainly one player I too would leave out - for Duffy, Egan or any other centre-back in the current squad.

I never rated him; indeed if I were to construct an XI of the worst players to win 10 caps or more for Ireland he would be amongst the first names on the teamsheet.

He was pacy and was thought of as okay on the ball, but set against that he was lackadaisical, liable to frequent lapses in concentration, error-prone, didn't read the game particularly well, lacked aggression in his play, wasn't dominant in the air, was no threat at set-pieces and never scored a goal.

He had one good game alongside the imperious McGrath against Italy and got a big-money move as a result, but I can't remember him putting in a really effective performance after that.

[pineapple stu]

Might be worth a thread of its own actually to avoid clogging this one up (again!) That's a decent post from Treqartista for example, and we need more of them.

I'll do it after the Portugal game once the line-up is known (and to avoid a direct clash with the match thread) - compare the starting XIs from Portugal 2021 and Holland 1995. Just to get a bit of random discussion.

Could make it a regular thing if it works - one per set of qualifiers, which means compare with a completely different match in October.

[Kingdom]

OK, I'll try to cheer you up, Liamoo......

...I only expect a few international retirements after this campaign so by March 2023 it's entirely possible we will have a very strong squad with a mix of youth and experience.

Great post Sam. Doesn't change things for this international window, but with a few ifs and buts, a future Ireland manager will have a very decent squad to be working with.

[tetsujin1979]

I thought Blackburn were given dispensation to award Kenna a medal?
He said himself he got one here: https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2020/april/champions-jeff-kenna/

You started the last nine remaining games. It must have been great to not only make the move, but to play so much as well?
There was only nine games left and I played in every game, so I was very pleased with that and ultimately I got a medal

[pineapple stu]

Travers withdraws; James Talbot of Bohs called up.

That kind of clarifies Randolph's international career anyway.

Christy Pym is one who'd been linked earlier in the year; I would have a starting Championship keeper in the squad over the Bohs keeper tbh. What's happened him?

[Eirambler]

That kind of clarifies Randolph's international career anyway.



Hopefully Kenny had the decency to let him know that personally before he called up Talbot ahead of him.

[Diggs246]

Travers withdraws; James Talbot of Bohs called up.

That kind of clarifies Randolph's international career anyway.

Christy Pym is one who'd been linked earlier in the year; I would have a starting Championship keeper in the squad over the Bohs keeper tbh. What's happened him?

I cant see where Pym qualifies? link?

I know im a broken record but kenny is hopeless... even having randy to help and advise in training surely is better than Talbot who wont play!!

[pineapple stu]

Pym link is here (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-40246481.html).

[Diggs246]

Pym link is here (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-40246481.html).

Thanks, if we have a championship keeper, why isn't he in the mix to start?
Last two games this month reviews below

He'll have far busier afternoons, but he was a calm presence behind an excellent set of defenders. Handled what he had to very well and beaten by a superb close-range strike. 7

There will be questions asked about his failure to leave his goalline for the only goal, but he also made three goal-saving interventions with his feet. Cool with the ball at his feet 7.5

[Eirambler]

From reading that article it looks like Pym qualifies through grandparents so it may be that he needs to get all the paperwork done before he can be called up.

[Diggs246]

From reading that article it looks like Pym qualifies through grandparents so it may be that he needs to get all the paperwork done before he can be called up.

He should move his hole!

[pineapple stu]

From reading that article it looks like Pym qualifies through grandparents so it may be that he needs to get all the paperwork done before he can be called up.
Yep - the article is six months old though, so you wonder have we even been in touch since.

[CraftyToePoke]

He should move his hole!

You couldn't even find where he qualified a minute ago & you're now saying how he should be handling it.

......

I noticed Szmodics flag has changed to Ireland on the line ups app I use but Pyms is still the English one. Both mentioned around the same time & from the same club. So maybe Pyms England underage appearances are delaying this ?

Have watched Peterborough a couple of times this season and he's doing well but teams definitely target him due to his size on set plays.

[Diggs246]

You couldn't even find where he qualified a minute ago & you're now saying how he should be handling it.

......

I noticed Szmodics flag has changed to Ireland on the line ups app I use but Pyms is still the English one. Both called up to the same squad from the same club. So maybe Pyms England underage appearances are delaying this ?

Have watched Peterborough a couple of times this season and he's doing well but teams definitely target him due to his size on set plays.

"You couldn't even find where he qualified a minute ago & you're now saying how he should be handling it"

Correct as I'm not chris Pym or his fu*king agent... of course he should be handling it

[Stuttgart88]

“Dan McD:



Kenny said that a lack of first team football and the fact that Randolph contracted Covid-19 over the summer were factors in his decision to omit the West Ham man.

He said that Randolph will come back into his thinking once he gets games under his belt.

Talbot has match sharpness on his side and impressed for Bohemians across their six game European run.”



https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/bohs-goalkeeper-james-talbot-earns-ireland-call-up-with-mark-travers-set-to-be-withdrawn-from-squad-40801719.html



I’ve only seen snippets of Pym. Should probably have done better with a direct free kick last season vs McGeady(?). Doesn’t look like much of an athlete to me either.

Even as a Rovers fan I’m happy to see Talbot called up. I think he’s good and deserves it.

[CraftyToePoke]

Correct as I'm not chris Pym or his fu*king agent... of course he should be handling it

You're a bit noisy aren't you Diggs ? With not a lot to actually say on here of any real interest in terms of informative discussion.

Lucky for him you aren't handling his career, yes. It is indeed, seeing as you can't even edit / quote a post :) :)

[brine3]

Ryan Johansson already chose to represent Sweden.

edit: sorry, it appears i was replying to the first page

[Diggs246]

You're a bit noisy aren't you Diggs ? With not a lot to actually say on here of any real interest in terms of informative discussion.

Lucky for him you aren't handling his career, yes. It is indeed, seeing as you can't even edit / quote a post :) :)

Hit me where it hurts... I cant edit / quote a post...jesus dont tell my mum

If noisy is wondering why a championship keeper isnt involved, then your absolutely right I will continue to be "noisy"

[SkStu]

Hit me where it hurts... I cant edit / quote a post...jesus dont tell my mum

If noisy is wondering why a championship keeper isnt involved, then your absolutely right I will continue to be "noisy"

What is it about Pym that you like in his ability as a keeper? What puts him above Talbot in your pecking order? Is it his height? His jowls?

[Diggs246]

What is it about Pym that you like in his ability as a keeper? What puts him above Talbot in your pecking order? Is it his height? His jowls?

To be fair I dont think I said pym was better or even a better option then Talbot. i said I would prefer randdolf to be called up ahead of talbot as neither would play and Randolph international experience alone would help in training etc

The pym post was a different conversation

[CraftyToePoke]

To be fair I dont think I said pym was better or even a better option then Talbot. i said I would prefer randdolf to be called up ahead of talbot as neither would play and Randolph international experience alone would help in training etc

The pym post was a different conversation

You've got nothing, have you ?
Apart from the bit of noise.

[Diggs246]

You've got nothing, have you ?
Apart from the bit of noise.

I think you should check my posts... noise and all.

[SkStu]

To be fair I dont think I said pym was better or even a better option then Talbot. i said I would prefer randdolf to be called up ahead of talbot as neither would play and Randolph international experience alone would help in training etc

The pym post was a different conversation

but you said this about Pym...


Thanks, if we have a championship keeper, why isn't he in the mix to start?

[pineapple stu]

It's a valid question in fairness

[Diggs246]

but you said this about Pym...

Yep thats correct
In the mix to start was wrong but Why wouldn't we call up a championship keeper..
I never said he was better then Talbot
I said Randolph was the player I would have ahead of talbot

[paul_oshea]

The unholy alliance, ganging up on poor diggs and he offering only valid questions

[SkStu]

It's a valid question in fairness

Maybe i was reading too much into it... as being that Kenny was possibly neglecting his duty in not having selected a championship keeper. Apologies to Diggs if that was not the case.

I do think that it makes more sense to be calling for someone to get their papers together if you have an opinion on whether they are actually be any good or not. Pym doesn't appear to me to be a step above any of the trio we have in the squad now based on the games i have watched him in.

[SkStu]

The unholy alliance, ganging up on poor diggs and he offering only valid questions

The enemy of my enemy is my friend... :D

*thanks*

[CraftyToePoke]

Yep thats correct
In the mix to start was wrong but Why wouldn't we call up a championship keeper..
I never said he was better then Talbot
I said Randolph was the player I would have ahead of talbot

On what are you basing him being better than the others ?
His clubs recent Championship arrival & having played four or five games in it thus far ?

He's short. He doesn't look like he lives the life of a pro athlete off field to me. His club were linked with keepers all off season and in the games I've watched him, Cardiff and West Brom clearly set up to target him. V West Brom yesterday he spilled a ball a taller keeper would not have been stretching for and was very lucky not to concede a penalty chasing it.

Over to you

[pineapple stu]

Maybe i was reading too much into it... as being that Kenny was possibly neglecting his duty in not having selected a championship keeper. Apologies to Diggs if that was not the case.

I do think that it makes more sense to be calling for someone to get their papers together if you have an opinion on whether they are actually be any good or not. Pym doesn't appear to me to be a step above any of the trio we have in the squad now based on the games i have watched him in.
On the flip side, we've recently had a thread where the general conclusion was that Jack Byrne - the standout LoI player of the past few years - is maybe a squad player at best. It's reasonable to suggest that a Championship keeper is better than an LoI keeper (who I think it's fair to say isn't standing out the way Byrne did) on that basis.

I know you're a bit biased in this, but it's still a reasonable question to ask I think.

[SkStu]

I just asked Diggs to identify why Pym is worthy of a call up and be in the running for a start or why we should be so vehement about him getting his passport. Which i think happens to be a reasonable question to ask in reply to his reasonable question. :) I have seen both players and Talbot has been called up before, under Mick Mack iirc, which gives him something of an advantage before ability even comes into it.

[Diggs246]

On what are you basing him being better than the others ?
His clubs recent Championship arrival & having played four or five games in it thus far ?

He's short. He doesn't look like he lives the life of a pro athlete off field to me. His club were linked with keepers all off season and in the games I've watched him, Cardiff and West Brom clearly set up to target him. V West Brom yesterday he spilled a ball a taller keeper would not have been stretching for and was very lucky not to concede a penalty chasing it.

Over to you

Ok I will dance, jesus get off the rag crafty

I've no idea how good he is. His last two games in the championship he received 7 and 7.5 out of ten reviews. I'm just of a view that just maybe a goalkeeper who is playing in a league higher then any league are others keepers are playing might be worth calling up. You have referenced his off field / non athlete ... life.
This is a yes or no answer did you just make that up? Or do u have proof that he is a poor pro or something else. Basically just explain your reference

[pineapple stu]

I just asked Diggs to identify why Pym is worthy of a call up and be in the running for a start or why we should be so vehement about him getting his passport. Which i think happens to be a reasonable question to ask in reply to his reasonable question. :) I have seen both players and Talbot has been called up before, under Mick Mack iirc, which gives him something of an advantage before ability even comes into it.
Don't think a previous call-up a couple of years back really matters tbh. Is that the only reason you have in favour of calling up Talbot?

It's hard to compare a player from YouTube and one from the stands when they're facing a very different standard of players. Talbot is playing Longford, Harps and Dundalk. Pym has been playing the likes of WBA and Cardiff, and will be facing better players every day in training. Better players will ask harder questions of a goalkeeper, so Pym looking a bit dodgy may well still be better than Talbot being comfortable in the LoI.

There was a lot of excitement when Szmodmics was called up last year from the same club don't forget.

[ifk101]

Pym has been playing the likes of WBA and Cardiff, and will be facing better players every day in training.

He's not an elite footballer.

This is his first season in the Championship - i.e. he has one month experience of Championship football. And two seasons in L2. He's overweight to boot.

We know Talbot is Irish ...

[CraftyToePoke]

I've no idea how good he is

And there we have it.


You have referenced his off field / non athlete ... life.
This is a yes or no answer did you just make that up? Or do u have proof that he is a poor pro or something else. Basically just explain your reference

Google images the lad there, its at the top, when you Google his name, click on images :) :) & tell me if you see a lad carrying a bit around the middle or not ? That's all I meant. That and a gut being a fairly concerning feature on a pro baller.

Maybe he should get off his hole & sort that while he's at it Diggsy

[Kingdom]

“Dan McD:

Kenny said that a lack of first team football and the fact that Randolph contracted Covid-19 over the summer were factors in his decision to omit the West Ham man.

He said that Randolph will come back into his thinking once he gets games under his belt.

Talbot has match sharpness on his side and impressed for Bohemians across their six game European run.”

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/bohs-goalkeeper-james-talbot-earns-ireland-call-up-with-mark-travers-set-to-be-withdrawn-from-squad-40801719.html

I’ve only seen snippets of Pym. Should probably have done better with a direct free kick last season vs McGeady(?). Doesn’t look like much of an athlete to me either.

Even as a Rovers fan I’m happy to see Talbot called up. I think he’s good and deserves it.

Indeed.
Maybe Randolph is one who isn't vaccinated, that would make travel difficult for an international window where we know he's not going to be first choice. So bringing in an Irish based keeper with minimum fuss to act as the backup's backup, is a sensible decision.
The first season I saw Talbot with bohs I was very surprised that he had ended up at Dalymount. I think there's been a few times this season where his decision making has been questionable, but overall he's been very good. It's a no-brainer for me.

[pineapple stu]

He's not an elite footballer.
Is Talbot?


This is his first season in the Championship - i.e. he has one month experience of Championship football. And two seasons in L2. He's overweight to boot.
135 games in League Two - close on three full seasons. Plus two full seasons at League One, which you didn't mention for some reason. Is his career on an upward trajectory?

I can't imagine a professional keeper in this day and age is significantly out of shape. Also, the internet says he's an inch taller than Talbot.


We know Talbot is Irish ...
That's probably the biggest factor in all this alright. Which goes back to the question of have we followed up with Pym since last March? (And that's acknowledging that following up random 2G/3G players indicates that we still have serious issues developing our own players, and is only going to lead to more Declan Rice scenarios down the line)

[Diggs246]

And there we have it.



Google images the lad there, its at the top, when you Google his name, click on images :) :) & tell me if you see a lad carrying a bit around the middle or not ? That's all I meant. That and a gut being a fairly concerning feature on a pro baller.

Maybe he should get off his hole & sort that while he's at it Diggsy

Ok google images is your selection criteria.
I have admitted I've no idea how good he is I'm working off match reviews. Real ones not images.

[CraftyToePoke]

Ok google images is your selection criteria.
I have admitted I've no idea how good he is I'm working off match reviews. Real ones not images.

Well, almost, that and having watched Peterborough four times already this season.

Do you see a fat lad or not ?