Hungary v Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 8th June 2021 - Friendly

[Olé Olé]

Cos Kelleher is better of course!

Next season will be interesting for both. Will Bazunu get a loan deal higher than L1? He was dropped for the last two months and that won't be a good look to Championship clubs. Will Kelleher get a loan deal at all? He needs one and there's rumours he'll get one

Edit - Ole Ole read my mind :)

Great minds. Just saw Kenny's post match interview and he put playing "regularly" in bold and underlined it in reference to the two keepers so he's thinking the same.

[pineapple stu]

Barry-Murphy said he needed a rest but I'd say it was as much to do with seeing what Lynch had to offer in preparation for the next season. The club is now up for sale as well. Probably half thinking of who they could put in the shop window and Bazunu wasn't going to be an option for them moving forward.

Not sure about that analysis. They were in a relegation dogfight and you don't start thinking about who you can put in the shop window 10 weeks out from the end. And results picked up too; they were a tiny bit unlucky (a 96th minute equaliser in one game knocked the stuffing out of them)

But that's in the past anyway. It's 30-odd senior games under the belt which is great. We know he's only in the senior squad - let alone the team - because of how few options we have. Let's see how the next twelve months go. For both of them. And indeed Travers/O'Hara/Randolph

[tommy_c12000]

I was happy with the progress evident tonight. Onwards and upwards. I’m looking forward to the preseason!

Positives for me were:
- The keepers
- More game time for Idah, Parrott, Knight. A lot of improving still to do.
- Molumby did well. The next club move is crucial and regular football from the get go is critical for him next season.
- Horgan: Our best player in the Kenny era
- Played better, looked up for it, and nice to see us experimenting with various formations.
- I guess the result...only because of the fixation many posters place on friendly results which I never quite understand. 4 points from 2 away games

Negatives:
- It’s tough seeing McClean still getting game time
- Hourihane is a useful squad player due to his set plays, but he has been very poor
- reasonably cohesive around the park except where it counts most yet again
- Duffys international days are numbered, although didn’t do anything too bad tonight
- Cullen still not convincing
- Doherty: although finished stronger, he is a shadow of the Wolves wing back we were so excited about

[D24Saint]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/ireland-player-ratings-bazunu-kelleher-duffy-and-egan-shine-in-budapest-battle-40517742.html

Player ratings by the indo.

[ontheotherhand]

Not sure about that analysis. They were in a relegation dogfight and you don't start thinking about who you can put in the shop window 10 weeks out from the end. And results picked up too; they were a tiny bit unlucky (a 96th minute equaliser in one game knocked the stuffing out of them)

But that's in the past anyway. It's 30-odd senior games under the belt which is great. We know he's only in the senior squad - let alone the team - because of how few options we have. Let's see how the next twelve months go. For both of them. And indeed Travers/O'Hara/Randolph


Shop window/planning for next season. If there's not a lot between them you might go with the lad who is going to be around to be picked or sold was my point. It also might have been a question of styles. Bazunu is being trained to play in an attacking, possession focused outfit where he operates as a sweeper/keeper. Maybe Lynch was better suited to how Rochdale thought they needed to play?

As you say, in the past and he got what he wanted out of it which was gametime.

Who would you put down as our best 3 keepers if all were available incidentally? Bazunu seems to be ahead of Travers/O'Hara so it does seem like Randolph, Kelleher, Bazunu. Unless Westwood is going to feature at some point but time is running out there.

[Olé Olé]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/ireland-player-ratings-bazunu-kelleher-duffy-and-egan-shine-in-budapest-battle-40517742.html

Player ratings by the indo.
I could argue the toss on whether a few lads should get an 7 instead of an 8 but Hourihane is stealing points getting a 6 and I'd add 1 to Knight's 7 if Duffy and Egan are getting an 8.

[pineapple stu]

Shop window/planning for next season. If there's not a lot between them you might go with the lad who is going to be around to be picked or sold was my point. It also might have been a question of styles. Bazunu is being trained to play in an attacking, possession focused outfit where he operates as a sweeper/keeper. Maybe Lynch was better suited to how Rochdale thought they needed to play?
First priority had to be to stay in the division though. You can't plan for next season without knowing what division you're in. Lynch was there all season, so you can't work out after 30 games that his style suits Rochdale better. I think Occam's razor comes in here - if your keeper is conceding two goals a game and making a couple of big errors, you try the other keeper, and if he halves the goals against rate, he stays in.


Who would you put down as our best 3 keepers if all were available incidentally? Bazunu seems to be ahead of Travers/O'Hara so it does seem like Randolph, Kelleher, Bazunu. Unless Westwood is going to feature at some point but time is running out there.
It's a hard call as none of them are getting game time, so any selection has to be qualified. None is a great option at the moment.

O'Hara is bottom of the pile I think. Travers - I don't think he did as bad as was being made out in Serbia; in Tadic, he was facing someone of a quality none of the other teams have had, and he's definitely one to make a new keeper think twice. But he's also not done a huge amount at club level. Ordinarily he wouldn't even be on our radar b if we're honest

For me, it's Bazunu third choice. I'd still worry that Portugal would tease more errors out of him than Kelleher/Randolph.

Then based on this evening, I think Kelleher is putting it up to Randolph. Kelleher is better playing football than Randolph. Goalkeeper-wise, Randolph has never let us down (bar that hospital pass in Helsinki I think!) but Kelleher impressed me tonight. If he gets a loan deal next season and does well at Championship or higher, then that would put him ahead of Randolph for me.

[Diggs246]

I thought we were quite good overall. Defo better then what I expected.

I understand why people might not be fans of taking the knee and bringing politics into sport . But are Hungarians just a pack of right wing fascists?.. how dare they boo our players? It was outrageous!!

[Razors left peg]

First priority had to be to stay in the division though. You can't plan for next season without knowing what division you're in. Lynch was there all season, so you can't work out after 30 games that his style suits Rochdale better. I think Occam's razor comes in here - if your keeper is conceding two goals a game and making a couple of big errors, you try the other keeper, and if he halves the goals against rate, he stays in.


It's a hard call as none of them are getting game time, so any selection has to be qualified. None is a great option at the moment.

O'Hara is bottom of the pile I think. Travers - I don't think he did as bad as was being made out in Serbia; in Tadic, he was facing someone of a quality none of the other teams have had, and he's definitely one to make a new keeper think twice. But he's also not done a huge amount at club level. Ordinarily he wouldn't even be on our radar b if we're honest

For me, it's Bazunu third choice. I'd still worry that Portugal would tease more errors out of him than Kelleher/Randolph.

Then based on this evening, I think Kelleher is putting it up to Randolph. Kelleher is better playing football than Randolph. Goalkeeper-wise, Randolph has never let us down (bar that hospital pass in Helsinki I think!) but Kelleher impressed me tonight. If he gets a loan deal next season and does well at Championship or higher, then that would put him ahead of Randolph for me.

I think Randolph is done with us tbh. I think Kenny is happy enough to move forward with a keeper who is ok with ball at his feet.

[Bielsa´s irish]

We probably say this a lot but Horgan is a chap who would have been better off on the continent. He has played under a few managers that like an agricultural side at club level.
This. He could play outside England no problem. Check Cyprus

[Nesta99]

Though if Bazunu is on such a dramatic trajectory of improvement why would you want to stop him? :)

Sure we all know that he is the (former) Shamrock Rovers/FAI insiders favourite poster boy, undroppable - except by Rochdale needing to boost their appeal to buyers:confused:

Seriously though he is obviously a huge talent, great lad, but not as far on in development as Kelleher both in age and experience of top class club games. I wouldnt see it as a slight on Bazunu to call Kelleher as the better keeper currently and showed more in his 45mins. Both will key players in the years to come. I do get the tendency to favour players we've watched turn out for our own clubs as in my Horgan defence ;)

[ontheotherhand]

First priority had to be to stay in the division though. You can't plan for next season without knowing what division you're in. Lynch was there all season, so you can't work out after 30 games that his style suits Rochdale better. I think Occam's razor comes in here - if your keeper is conceding two goals a game and making a couple of big errors, you try the other keeper, and if he halves the goals against rate, he stays in.


It's a hard call as none of them are getting game time, so any selection has to be qualified. None is a great option at the moment.

O'Hara is bottom of the pile I think. Travers - I don't think he did as bad as was being made out in Serbia; in Tadic, he was facing someone of a quality none of the other teams have had, and he's definitely one to make a new keeper think twice. But he's also not done a huge amount at club level. Ordinarily he wouldn't even be on our radar b if we're honest

For me, it's Bazunu third choice. I'd still worry that Portugal would tease more errors out of him than Kelleher/Randolph.

Then based on this evening, I think Kelleher is putting it up to Randolph. Kelleher is better playing football than Randolph. Goalkeeper-wise, Randolph has never let us down (bar that hospital pass in Helsinki I think!) but Kelleher impressed me tonight. If he gets a loan deal next season and does well at Championship or higher, then that would put him ahead of Randolph for me.

Fair. I didn't watch Rochdale to see if they set up differently outside of the keeper change. The few match reports I've read seemed to say Lynch didn't have much to do so I assumed they'd shut up shop defensively and were playing more direct with maybe a preference for a keeper to suit.

I also thought Travers was unfairly blamed to be honest. Keepers have it the hardest - we always say that but in practice we still analyze every mistake to death. We also probably get too excited when they make decent saves...although looking back again at the various saves today - I'd still rate Bazunu's higher than Kelleher's! All good but Bazunu was at full stretch whereas Kelleher made two fine reaction saves to shots within a foot or so of him either side. Good but you'd be disappointed if he let the ball past.

I'd have it at Randolph, Bazunu/Kelleher right now but with the two lads not as far behind Randolph as they were.

Rewatching the game I also looked again at Doherty and Hourihane - they were as bad as I'd thought. I'd throw Parrot in there as well to be honest. He was very slow and made some bad decisions which slowed us down or broke up promising moves. Lot's of time for him to learn but you'd fear he was just that slightly more athletically advanced underage player who might never make the step up to the necessary level now.

[ontheotherhand]

Sure we all know that he is the (former) Shamrock Rovers/FAI insiders favourite poster boy, undroppable - except by Rochdale needing to boost their appeal to buyers:confused:

Seriously though he is obviously a huge talent, great lad, but not as far on in development as Kelleher both in age and experience of top class club games. I wouldnt see it as a slight on Bazunu to call Kelleher as the better keeper currently and showed more in his 45mins. Both will key players in the years to come. I do get the tendency to favour players we've watched turn out for our own clubs as in my Horgan defence ;)

Completely fair but luckily you don't have to take my word for it. Aside from foot.ie most people have been pretty happy with Bazunu.
And you weren't wrong on Horgan - I said earlier I thought he offered the most going forward. That held up on second viewing although Knight did a lot more than I'd noticed first time around. He looks really promising.

Now if only Jack Byrne could come back we'd be in with a shout of a trophy or 2......... ;)

[ifk101]

Good exercise for us and thought we were relatively comfortable throughout. We didn’t have clear cut chances but did have quite a few dangerous half chances – the defender got in ahead of Idah for a couple of chances (that take down on the chest and flick by Horgan for an Idah chance was an unreal piece of skill), and Ogbene’s shot at the end and run down the right and pull back to (Knight?). Good individual performances throughout the team with the exception of Hourihane. Maybe coincidence, but we did edge the game more when he left the field and Cullen came into the game more. If nothing else, the younger players that have come in have progressed and are strong additions to the squad. Idah looks much improved on where he was on his first senior cap, and Knight is an automatic starter for me going forward. And there is genuine competition now for the goalkeeper position. Kelleher, to be fair to him, looked completely unfazed by it all (senior debut) and oozed confidence.

[jbyrne]

i think duffy played himself back into the team last night. Those writing him off should think again. He has been excellent for us up until last september when he obviously suffered a crisis in confidence not helped by joining a celtic team in freefall and in a mess.
Would be very happy with a back 4 of coleman, egan, duffy and o shea.
horgan and knight have done very well under kenny. cullen does some good things but can be very sloppy in possession. if we can sort our centre mid it will make a massive difference.
up front i thought idah was quite good and will only get better. he is ahead of parrott in the pecking order for me.

love the way posters here are so quick to write off teams like hungary when we do quite well against them. 1 loss in 13 matches including wins over turkey (twice), serbia (away) and iceland. draws against russia (a), serbia and poland. oh.... and heading to the euros. would love that record for ourselves over the last 12 months. if last nights result and performance was a qualifier we would be quite happy irrespective of the manager.

have to add that its obvious to me that we need to be a little more direct. most of our very best moments last night came from a bit of directness. its been our strength for years and ditching it for tippy tappy football in our own 18 yard box would be a massive error. there is a happy medium

[Straightstory]

Keepers did well.
Don't think Parrot or Idah will ever score many goals at this level. Idah lacked aggression. Parrot invariably gave the ball away. Ogbene looked good when he came on.
Another impressive performance from Horgan. He's really made his case to be a regular in the team.
Good to see Duffy put in a good shift.
It'll be interesting to see how good/bad Hungary will be in the Euros.
Optimism in the air - but still can't see us getting many points from the games September.

[Snapshot]

i think duffy played himself back into the team last night. Those writing him off should think again. He has been excellent for us up until last september . . .

Club form should be the criteria. His form was atrocious and he paid the price. Now the ball is back in his court - good luck to him but he knows what he needs to do.

[jbyrne]

Club form should be the criteria. His form was atrocious and he paid the price. Now the ball is back in his court - good luck to him but he knows what he needs to do.

what matters is how players play for us. we don't have the luxury of selection based on club form.
there are lots of examples of players not getting a decent look in with their clubs playing well for us. McAteer circa 2001 is a prime example.
Duffys Celtic experience was a perfect storm of him hitting poor form while also being in a club that was in a complete meltdown.

[seanfhear]

what matters is how players play for us. we don't have the luxury of selection based on club form.
there are lots of examples of players not getting a decent look in with their clubs playing well for us. McAteer circa 2001 is a prime example.
Duffys Celtic experience was a perfect storm of him hitting poor form while also being in a club that was in a complete meltdown.
Has anyone really explained why Celtic were in complete meltdown and why was Duffy not able to help put a stop to it ?

A conspiracy theorist would say that Celtic and Rangers have a secret agreement to never do a 10 in a row ( either of them ). How could Celtic implode that badly in a Two Horse Race ?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Think that Celtic season's been coming for a while. It was the perfect storm of really poor management, high pressure from fans for the ten-in-a-row, complacency, COVID mess-ups and the first proper tilt Rangers have been able to put up in a long time.

[tetsujin1979]

The seeds were there in the 2019/20 season, Rangers had improved, and weren't that far behind Celtic. Players were sold and not replaced, Lennon regressed the team from Rogers' time in charge, and not having fans in the stadium had an impact on results.

[Nesta99]

Think that Celtic season's been coming for a while. It was the perfect storm of really poor management, high pressure from fans for the ten-in-a-row, complacency, COVID mess-ups and the first proper tilt Rangers have been able to put up in a long time.

Not to mention Rangers opening the purse strings and now seeking to raise €7m funds from share offers to fans (min of £500 to £100k worth I think), under the guise of giving fans some say in the club of course.... In a covid hit season, BCD, all clubs could do with cash injections so shall let them off the hook for this season but there is the sense that they were pushing the boat out to prevent a Celtic 10 in a row and spending to close the gap asap for a number of years . Gerard is turning out to be a good young manager too though. I have no liking for either side just in case it sounds like a Celtic fans excuse!

Duffy put a whole lot on the line last night has shown some serious character. He didnt hide and has restored some rep - it doesnt surprise me at all that his confidence is being rebuilt in a green shirt under Stephen Kenny!

[Snapshot]

Sorry jbyrne, cannot agree. Duffy arrived at Celtic because it was a pressure year. He didn't perform - indeed, some of his efforts were dismal. He spent much time on the bench. I'm a Duffy fan - and I'm taking into account his family bereavement - but he was simply not good enough in a league in which he should have been a standout. But you'd have him straight back in the Irish team to face elite Portugal on the basis of a friendly - I think that could be catastrophic.

[jbyrne]

Sorry jbyrne, cannot agree. Duffy arrived at Celtic because it was a pressure year. He didn't perform - indeed, some of his efforts were dismal. He spent much time on the bench. I'm a Duffy fan - and I'm taking into account his family bereavement - but he was simply not good enough in a league in which he should have been a standout. But you'd have him straight back in the Irish team to face elite Portugal on the basis of a friendly - I think that could be catastrophic.

absolutely i would have him in the team against portugal. willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this seasons form..... i think he has earned it.
i said above his form was poor but, in my opinion, it was greatly exacerbated by celtics mess.
if its being suggested that he wasn't EPL standard then that's well wide of the mark.

[lofty9]

I'd have Duffy in any game in which we will be backs to the wall, that's his game. Celtic are not a back to the wall team.

[zero]

I think if it's 3 centre halves - which you'd expect it will be in Portugal - then Duffy would be one of them, fitness permitting.

A lot can happen between now and then however, e.g. if Collins gets a big move and features immediately in the top flight then it would be difficult to leave him out.

[seanfhear]

Duffy had one dodgy moment that he got away with courtesy of Doherty who passed a ball directly to the centre of the Irish goal with a very risky pass. Duffy tried to control it ( off , I have forgotten who ) and just about got away with it He would be getting a lot of stick if that had ended up as goal when he should have just cleared it. It didn’t make Doherty look good either.

[paul_oshea]

The fact we had some youngsters playing was the only encouragement for me. Hungary are a poor side and we should have shown more attacking intent. I keep hearing we are moving towards a more attractive style of football but I will never understand why people like the idea of passing for passing sake apart from the chance to sing ole a few times. Put em under pressure!

We definitely played a more intelligent game last night than any other under Kenny. It left me wondering were fellas told to make their own mind up or were the first games a case of just trying to please him and not using their own football brains to decide whether to go long or over the top. Most of our best chances came from over the top or long balls to start off the move. Idah had a lovely one in the second half but turned back, I was really hoping he would just go at goal - perhaps obafemi would be suited to that role, but not sure we'll find out in the short term.

We appear to have passed that passing for passing sake to appears certain elements, that can only be a good thing. We looked far more inventive even if we didnt have many clear cut chances. Our players thus far are not comfortable with a passing game and nothing else, they're much more fruitful when going high or long when the opportunity presents itself. Until we have a midfielder or two who can take the ball with back to goal and from the narrow angle turn and open the space we will need to focus more on the ott balls and long passes like Duffy was doing with finesse last night.

Perhaps the positivity here is because we've been close to the bottom of the barrel and our expectations have been managed, managed to the pit, whatever it is we looked more solid and organised than any other game under Kenny.

[paul_oshea]

We have a ways to go but I genuinely think we will be a very good side in the next few years.

Define a very good side?

[paul_oshea]

Sure we all know that he is the (former) Shamrock Rovers/FAI insiders favourite poster boy, undroppable - except by Rochdale needing to boost their appeal to buyers:confused:

Seriously though he is obviously a huge talent, great lad, but not as far on in development as Kelleher both in age and experience of top class club games. I wouldnt see it as a slight on Bazunu to call Kelleher as the better keeper currently and showed more in his 45mins. Both will key players in the years to come. I do get the tendency to favour players we've watched turn out for our own clubs as in my Horgan defence ;)

That full stretch save he made he looked like a boy in mens goals there.

[ColourfulPeanut]

I have no preference for either but I don't get how Kelleher showed more in the 2nd half. He faced more shots and played very well but Bazunu saved everything that came his way too. He can't manufacture chances for him to save them and they both looked completely comfortable with their feet. Neither had the beating of the other based on last night's game.

Kelleher is 3 and a quarter years older than Bazunu and last night was his 11th senior match of his career. We haven't seen enough of either to be making any judgements.

[pineapple stu]

I have no preference for either but I don't get how Kelleher showed more in the 2nd half. Neither had the beating of the other based on last night's game.
On the basis of last night's game, yep, they both played quite well and while Kelleher showed better because he had more to do, that's not to say that Bazunu couldn't have played as well in the second half.

But for me the issue is that Kelleher had more to do in those 45 than Bazunu had in his 3½ appearances, and yet Bazunu made 5/6 really bad errors in that time. He was at fault for the goal against Andorra (as were many others), he had two rushes of blood against Qatar (the ghost penalty plus a rush to the edge of the box to drop the ball) and one against Luxembourg (Coleman rescued him), was nearly caught out by bad placing from a free-kick against Luxembourg (as Stutts flagged at the time) and had a couple of instances of passing straight to the opposition 25 yards or so out. It's a lot for such a short spell of time in games where we weren't really under pressure. Kelleher barely put a foot wrong last night by contrast in the face of greater pressure.

[ontheotherhand]

On the basis of last night's game, yep, they both played quite well and while Kelleher showed better because he had more to do, that's not to say that Bazunu couldn't have played as well in the second half.

But for me the issue is that Kelleher had more to do in those 45 than Bazunu had in his 3½ appearances, and yet Bazunu made 5/6 really bad errors in that time. He was at fault for the goal against Andorra (as were many others), he had two rushes of blood against Qatar (the ghost penalty plus a rush to the edge of the box to drop the ball) and one against Luxembourg (Coleman rescued him), was nearly caught out by bad placing from a free-kick against Luxembourg (as Stutts flagged at the time) and had a couple of instances of passing straight to the opposition 25 yards or so out. It's a lot for such a short spell of time in games where we weren't really under pressure. Kelleher barely put a foot wrong last night by contrast in the face of greater pressure.

How was there less pressure while we were aiming for our first win than in the game right after it? I think part of what we saw last night was down to that monkey being off the back to be honest. Everyone played with a bit more confidence bar the few mentioned to death.

You could make the case that both keepers may have struggled here and there previous to the defense getting their act together last night. Having Duffy back to somewhat normal was fantastic. We are in a position where both look like they could be #1 for a long time but neither are the finished article yet.

All this said, I think Kelleher is still ahead in his development. So when I'm backing Bazunu here it's only in the face of criticism that might be a tad harsh for a teenager. I think they are close in terms of readiness but 3 years is a lot at that age even if Kelleher looks the younger in terms of build. Kelleher would have been ahead had he been available for this last run of games perhaps. The battle for #1 will be interesting.

So you and I get to do this for another 15 years!

[pineapple stu]

How was there less pressure while we were aiming for our first win than in the game right after it?
I think you're misinterpreting. I mean there was more pressure in the pure football sense because Hungary created more chances in the second 45 than we had faced in Bazunu's 315 minutes against Qatar, Luxembourg, Andorra and Hungary (first half)

Bazunu's mistakes had nothing to do with the defence and everything to do with him rushing off his line when he shouldn't have. Nothing the defenders can do about that. There's nothing harsh about criticising that in my view. He's a big boy now in the senior squad; if he's costing goals or giving huge scares like that, he can get called up on it.

We shouldn't get to do this for 15 years because he'll improve in the next couple of years (probably!) and get it out of his system, and then he'll be worth a place in the side. :)

[ontheotherhand]

I think you're misinterpreting. I mean there was more pressure in the pure football sense because Hungary created more chances in the second 45 than we had faced in Bazunu's 315 minutes against Qatar, Luxembourg, Andorra and Hungary (first half)

Bazunu's mistakes had nothing to do with the defence and everything to do with him rushing off his line when he shouldn't have. Nothing the defenders can do about that. There's nothing harsh about criticising that in my view. He's a big boy now in the senior squad; if he's costing goals or giving huge scares like that, he can get called up on it.

We shouldn't get to do this for 15 years because he'll improve in the next couple of years (probably!) and get it out of his system, and then he'll be worth a place in the side. :)

So you want the keeper in who results in us coughing up the most chances? ;)

[pineapple stu]

Let's not go all Cathy Newman on this, shall we? That's not what I said, and you know it. Did Kelleher really have anything to do with how many chances Hungary created?

At this stage, I want the keeper who commits the fewer howlers and is responsible for fewer goals conceded. Of the two (Kelleher, Bazunu), that's Kelleher based on what I've seen.

[zero]

Without breaking it down minute by minute, I felt more comfortable with Kelleher in there than Bazunu, or certainly Travers.

The goalkeeping position must be the least of our worries though...

[ontheotherhand]

Let's not go all Cathy Newman on this, shall we? That's not what I said, and you know it. Did Kelleher really have anything to do with how many chances Hungary created?

At this stage, I want the keeper who commits the fewer howlers and is responsible for fewer goals conceded. Of the two (Kelleher, Bazunu), that's Kelleher based on what I've seen.


My emoji game must be off - twas a joke stu. I'm not arguing with you here out of any lack of respect for the points you're making. Just putting up a different perspective.

But to answer your question, maybe he did? He didn't seem as vocal back there but maybe the game just opened up a bit. It was really only the 2 saves he made of any note though and both in the same sequence of play so it's not as if Hungary really had us under the cosh. We had better chances in the second half as well but it was a marginal thing and probably more to do with the way the game was going and our slight change in system than anything else.

Outside of Kelleher, now that we've done that to death - who impressed you and others most over the two games? For me, Knight, Duffy, Horgan and Egan showed why they would be worth their place. O'Shea was ok. McClean was himself but probably the best version of it. Idah had flashes. Ogbene looks a bit of a handful. I'd hoped to see more of McGrath

And of course, the million bitcoin question - who was the worst player picked for the squad...matchday that is?

[pineapple stu]

I think a different smiley is needed for sarcastic questions! :) Cathy Newman-ing is all too common on the internet unfortunately...

I don't think there's any real evidence that he was responsible for Hungary's extra attacking impetus in the second half. Bazunu had one save to make that I recall (and a good one at that). Kelleher had five or six saves to make, some easier than others of course, but the snapshot from the edge of the area was a "save of note" as well. Hungary didn't have us under the cosh, but we were definitely under more pressure than in the previous games.

On the others - I thought it was a waste bringing on Ogbene for the last two minutes, who I didn't really rate in the first place. He did surprisingly well all things considered. But I don't think anyone really stood out. We scored four goals against a tired Andorra - and credit Parrott and McClean for taking the game by the scruff of the neck in that regard - and didn't create a huge amount against Hungary. Again, it's hard to judge the Hungary game because we know what can happen in the last friendly before a finals. I'm happier with the team now than I was after the Luxembourg game, and there are signs some of the younger players are starting to settle in in midfield in particular, but we're still far from decent and I think there's a big year ahead for a lot of the younger players which will decide if they'll even make it as senior regulars. But I'm more interested in the September games tbh. There's no point drawing in Hungary if we're going to lose a competitive game to Luxembourg again (or Azerbaijan, as we actually do play them in September)

[CraftyToePoke]

I think this Bazunu / Kelleher debate could do with its own thread :) call it spot the micro difference or splitting hairs or whatever.

[Fixer82]

Thought Troy looked good against Hungary, even if it didn't always work out for him.
Feel more hopeful than I did a week ago

[ontheotherhand]

Ah but it's actually one of the few positives to come out of all this. Maybe it's a way of ignoring the fact that we aren't going to be in great shape for a few years based on what I've seen. That's my opinion anyway. I just don't see enough quality coming through and there's that big gap in age groups where we have nobody approaching what should be their prime. Decades of neglect etc. It's why I'm OK with Kenny in there on a relatively small salary and I'm OK with young lads making mistakes if they show some potential to be what we need in 3-4 years. I don't hold out a lot of hope for the September games so I'm looking for any green shoots over the past few games and the next few years.

[Razors left peg]

Define a very good side?

One that you wont complain about

[Nesta99]

Let's not go all Cathy Newman on this, shall we? That's not what I said, and you know it. Did Kelleher really have anything to do with how many chances Hungary created?

At this stage, I want the keeper who commits the fewer howlers and is responsible for fewer goals conceded. Of the two (Kelleher, Bazunu), that's Kelleher based on what I've seen.

Bazunu loan move to Dundalk would be perfect!!:o


I'd hoped to see more of McGrath

I was hoping he would get a decent run out. I dont really follow the SPL, and tbh I didnt see him as one of the main successful moves from LoI but a pleasant surprise that he got in to the team of the year and could be on bigger clubs' radar. To see how he has improved in a better overall team performance would have been good. The general thinking at the time of his move to St Mirren was that he hadnt been showing his best form or progressed as hoped for and that another year in LoI with him knuckling down and getting a move to match his potential was the way to go. But fair play, he made the move work and adapted to a new league well and earned his call up. I hope he can be the calming creative player than can unlock defences and he must have added some grit to his game too.

[backstothewall]

I dont really follow the SPL, and tbh I didnt see him as one of the main successful moves from LoI but a pleasant surprise that he got in to the team of the year and could be on bigger clubs' radar.

Irish player doing well with a smaller team in Scotland. I'm worried that the really obvious will happen and he'll end up in the second string at Celtic.

A move to Holland or Belgium could be good.

[passinginterest]

Not sure there's a thread where this really fits, but it's a lovely read. Interview with Charlie O'Leary, a man who has been alive for every international game played since the FAI was formed. Some great little stories particularly the Vienna roll on the autobahn and the water boy. https://www.the42.ie/charlie-oleary-the42-fai-centenary-5461998-Jun2021/

I suppose there's some relevance to today in terms of what it takes to build a squad and an atmosphere that brings player together and gets the best of them. Stephen Kenny got a little bit of stick for mentioning making the training camp fun, but there's no doubt it's important for players to bond and have a laugh together.

[Stuttgart88]

On the basis of last night's game, yep, they both played quite well and while Kelleher showed better because he had more to do, that's not to say that Bazunu couldn't have played as well in the second half.

But for me the issue is that Kelleher had more to do in those 45 than Bazunu had in his 3½ appearances, and yet Bazunu made 5/6 really bad errors in that time. He was at fault for the goal against Andorra (as were many others), he had two rushes of blood against Qatar (the ghost penalty plus a rush to the edge of the box to drop the ball) and one against Luxembourg (Coleman rescued him), was nearly caught out by bad placing from a free-kick against Luxembourg (as Stutts flagged at the time) and had a couple of instances of passing straight to the opposition 25 yards or so out. It's a lot for such a short spell of time in games where we weren't really under pressure. Kelleher barely put a foot wrong last night by contrast in the face of greater pressure.Id agree with most of this but I think it's a stretch to blame him for the Andorra goal. I thought it was awful defending and a textbook perfect header.

[Stuttgart88]

Haven’t been on for a while.

Andorra:
4 goals and 2 missed sitters (Collins, Curtis) on a horrible plastic pitch. So Andorra got tired. So what? That’s how these games tend to pan out. Better teams eventually get the better of lesser teams. Were Andorra less fit last week than any other time we played them? We’ve never scored 4 vs Andorra before and we have looked rubbish against them before. Take it and move on. Stop the national self-loathing.

Hungary:
I really enjoyed this. I thought we looked like a normal 21st century football team. Maybe a bit too stand-offish, too happy to pat ourselves on the back for keeping good shape without the ball. I thought we lacked ambition for too much of the game but when we showed some we looked good, especially from 65 mins onwards as the game got stretched. I wonder does playing in front of a crowd again improve things? Playing in a totally empty Aviva must be soul destroying.

Idah went from being unable to make the ball stick in the first half to finishing the game looking like a real 9. Ogbene was a live wire when he came on and I’d bet he’s a real character in the camp too.

Horgan was class. In general we struggle to play through opponents’ lines (Hourihane…) but Horgan gets between the lines well. I prefer a Wes / Modric type who can get between lines by clever passing and movement but Horgan’s ability to carry the ball between lines makes a huge difference (reminding me of McGeady’s carry through midfield to ultimately set up the Brady goal in Lille). He’s really good in tight spaces, wide or centrally and is the real winner of these two games imho. O’Shea looks like a seasoned pro. Molumby added bite. I’ve always liked Cullen. I like what he does, bread & butter midfielder stuff. Knight is getting better. Both keepers impressed. Each is a really confident kid. Kelleher shading it for me from this point on. I wonder has Kiely been an upgrade on Kelly?

Overall lots to be happy with. Some individual errors of course but as a unit we finally looked like a normal football team, which may be damning with faint praise but it’s also clearly an improvement.

Some of these kids are really starting to find their way and I’m looking forward to seeing more. It’s probably the first game from Kenny that was actually what I was expecting from him in the first instance. I think persisting with Hourihane deep is still an alarming blind spot of Kenny’s though.

[backstothewall]

Seeing the other countries kick off in this is hard.

We should have been in this one.

[geysir]

One that you wont complain about

Define a good side? One that picks itself.