Festy Ebosele D Istanbul Basaksehir b.2002

[Fixer82]

I just dont think he is a glaring ommission. We have Coleman and Doherty and are stocked well further up the right. He hasnt pulled up any trees in Serie A yet. I'm not opposed but he is not a lock - who does he replace?

Exactly. He hasn’t warranted a call-up yet

[Diggs246]

I meant who are you replacing in the squad to accommodate Festy? Not just for Latvia but on a permanent basis, assuming that is what you are proposing. Do you retire Coleman or Doherty or do you take out Ogbene or Robinson in favour of Festy's versatility? Its not just as simple as call someone up, they have to take someones place.

I'm talking about giving a young guy a run in a friendly versus Latvia.

He has been in a few squads already so no one has to retire or die?

[Stuttgart88]

I'd have other immediate priorities over Festy tbh. I'd rather have a look at Joe Hodge. Ferguson and attacking midfield is where I'd be looking to look at new players. Sykes is in a rich vein of form.

I think we should have looked at Festy last year when he was playing regular club football.

[Razors left peg]

Stu's argument about who do u leave out is correct. Right now right back is our position where we are probably strongest all things considered... but both Coleman and Doherty are cover for other positions so I do think there is room for a 3rd right back in the squad and that's where for me Festy, Lyons and McNamara fit in.

By the end of this campaign one of them will replace Coleman as he ages.

I actually see it as a positive that there's arguments about who should be in or out of squads. We want to be in a position where good players are left out of squads and teams. Means we have depth and competition for places.

[pineapple stu]

There's a big succession planning at full-back (both sides) though that's worth addressing sooner rather than later. I think it's worth using the Latvia game to consider that.

I just don't know if someone with 53 minutes all season, even if in a decent league, is one to throw in though. Agree the likes of McNamara would be higher up the pecking order at the moment.

[seanfhear]

Kenny seems to have a blind spot re; McNamara.

Kenny seems to have a thick head on him at times re; certain players.

[Diggs246]

Stu's argument about who do u leave out is correct. Right now right back is our position where we are probably strongest all things considered... but both Coleman and Doherty are cover for other positions so I do think there is room for a 3rd right back in the squad and that's where for me Festy, Lyons and McNamara fit in.

By the end of this campaign one of them will replace Coleman as he ages.

I actually see it as a positive that there's arguments about who should be in or out of squads. We want to be in a position where good players are left out of squads and teams. Means we have depth and competition for places.

I don't think he is a right back tbh.i doubt he can play in a back 4 at international level
I would say he is closer to a right winger then a right back.
So it's wing back or right wing for me

[Razors left peg]

I don't think he is a right back tbh.i doubt he can play in a back 4 at international level
I would say he is closer to a right winger then a right back.
So it's wing back or right wing for me

We play with wing backs though so he comes into consideration because of that

[ifk101]

Seems Udinese play similarly to us and Ebosele is being schooled to play that RWB position. Ideally you would want him to have more first team football, but I think we can assume Italy has improved his positional awareness - his obvious weakness. That burst of acceleration he has maybe merits overlooking his lack of football.

[Razors left peg]

He is only 20, hes played plenty of 1st team football for Derby already and now he is getting increasing game time in one of the top leagues in the world. We probably should be more excited about this lad than we all seem to be.

[Eirambler]

I think we saw in November that succession planning is out the window for the next while. Kenny has bedded in his favourites from his Under 21 team now, alongside the stalwarts and one or two others that were pretty much forced on him like Josh Cullen. He doesn't seem to be interested in much further development - other than capping Ferguson of course, which may turn out to have all been for nothing.

Basically I can see us more or less going with what we have for the remainder of the Kenny era.

[SkStu]

I'm talking about giving a young guy a run in a friendly versus Latvia.

He has been in a few squads already so no one has to retire or die?

You could just put your thinking on the table fully, unless you really do just want to call him up to the friendly and then have him exit the squad again.

[pineapple stu]

I think we saw in November that succession planning is out the window for the next while.
I do think this is probably correct alright.


He is only 20, hes played plenty of 1st team football for Derby already and now he is getting increasing game time in one of the top leagues in the world. We probably should be more excited about this lad than we all seem to be.
He's played 50 minutes all season; that really needs to be kept in mind. "Increasing game time", going from 6 minutes to 15 minutes as a sub appearance, is a hell of an exaggeration.

He can be a good prospect without necessarily being worth a cap in March.

[Razors left peg]

I do think this is probably correct alright.


He's played 50 minutes all season; that really needs to be kept in mind. "Increasing game time", going from 6 minutes to 15 minutes as a sub appearance, is a hell of an exaggeration.

He can be a good prospect without necessarily being worth a cap in March.

Is it also not worth something that he is training with better players every week than any of our lads at Championship level? Im not saying he should be starting for us now, Im just saying we need to consider that he could be pretty exceptional to be getting all this experience at such a young age.

[pineapple stu]

I think we've seen lots of players who are judged pretty exceptional here because they're young and Irish to be honest. By the same logic, Abankwah should be called up too as he's also on the bench regularly. But I don't think that's reasonable either.

So not really. I think there's better options available at the moment.

[Razors left peg]

I dont recall Abankwah ever playing regularly in the Championship before moving to Serie A, so no I dont think thats the same thing

[pineapple stu]

Eight months without any real competitive action isn't at all ideal tbh and I think dulls the Derby games argument too. Especially when you've someone like McNamara playing regularly for a side pushing for promotion to the Premier League.

[Razors left peg]

McNamara has only played 15 more games in Championship than Ebosele, despite being 4 years older.

If we are only looking at people playing regularly at the moment then Festy would be ahead of Matt Doherty who hasnt played a game since moving to Spain! Festy is getting more minutes in 1st team currently.

[Razors left peg]

Eight months without any real competitive action isn't at all ideal tbh and I think dulls the Derby games argument too. Especially when you've someone like McNamara playing regularly for a side pushing for promotion to the Premier League.

Also more than slightly ironic that you are now using the 1st team regular football arguement when you dont think that should apply to Kelleher

[Eirambler]

I'd say a minutes played stat would tell a very different story in terms of Festy v McNamara. McNamara tends to play the full 90 week in week out, whereas many of Festy's Derby appearances were off the bench. McNamara also had a very impressive spell in Scotland.

[Razors left peg]

Look, Ive already said that I really havent seen enough of McNamara to have a very strong opinion on him really but Festy has impressed me in his short career so far. Likewise with Andy Lyons who I mentioned earlier in the thread, he has consistently been class for Shamrock Rovers and has immediately gone into 1st team in Championship, which is pretty unusual for lads from LOI.

Its a good problem to have and I wish we had same problem on the left too. Ryan Manning has plenty of Championship appearances but he is not good enough for International football, in my opinion. Cyrus Christie plays week in week out for Hull, by rights he should be 3rd in line for right back spot if we are just looking at games played.

[pineapple stu]

If we are only looking at people playing regularly at the moment then Festy would be ahead of Matt Doherty who hasnt played a game since moving to Spain! Festy is getting more minutes in 1st team currently.
Doherty has had three weeks on the bench. Festy has had eight months there. Bit of a difference. If Doherty is still getting practically no game time at all by September, then yeah, you'd be wondering if he should be in the squad. Bit like Randolph.

53 minutes over a season isn't worth enough however you twist the comparison.


McNamara has only played 15 more games in Championship than Ebosele, despite being 4 years older.

Not true. McNamara has 81 Championship games to Festy's 38. And 75 starts to Festy's 18. I don't think he'd transform the side, but he has to be higher in the pecking order.

[pineapple stu]

Also more than slightly ironic that you are now using the 1st team regular football arguement when you dont think that should apply to Kelleher
Not at all. I've said many times that Kelleher's position isn't ideal and that I admire Bazunu for leaving City. But I've also based my Bazunu argument on form - conceding 10 goals or so more than xG this season is a real concern. That's a goal every other game he's letting in that he shouldn't be (and we saw that hurt us against Armenia). And I've thanked otoh's latest (very balanced) post on his performance against Chelsea.

[Razors left peg]

Doherty has had three weeks on the bench. Festy has had eight months there. Bit of a difference. If Doherty is still getting practically no game time at all by September, then yeah, you'd be wondering if he should be in the squad. Bit like Randolph.

53 minutes over a season isn't worth enough however you twist the comparison.



Not true. McNamara has 81 Championship games to Festy's 38. And 75 starts to Festy's 18. I don't think he'd transform the side, but he has to be higher in the pecking order.

Wikipedia has 53 Championship appearances for McNamara compared to Eboseles 38

[pineapple stu]

That doesn't include this season. Try soccerway.

[Razors left peg]

That doesn't include this season. Try soccerway.

Fair enough, just seen that. Doesnt really change my point too much though. Ebosele could have taken the easy way and gone to another Championship club this season instead of pushing himself with the move to Italy.

In the words of Jay from the Inbetweeners.... Championship! Completed it mate! :p

[pineapple stu]

He could have but instead he's stagnating on that bench with 53 minutes of football all season.

Maybe it'll work out the v right decision in time. But that time isn't next month for me

[Razors left peg]

Its hardly stagnating on the bench at 20 years of age after only moving there this season and is starting to get some game time. Stagnating would be if he was 24 and hadnt yet played 10 games of senior club football.

[pineapple stu]

You keep repeating this "starting to get some game time" thing, but 53 minutes over a season is nothing worth talking about. Even Kelleher has more than that.

Edit - actually, it's 99 minutes including the Coppa Italia. But same argument holds.

[Razors left peg]

Im also taking into account his previous game time in Championship and his age. You dont think its reasonable for him to move over, take some time to acclimatize to a new league and country and slowly start to get games? Be different if he played a couple of games early and hadnt been seen again. Hes been on bench all season, training with 1st team every day and now 6 months into the season is starting to get a few more minutes..... maybe Im nuts to see progression rather than stagnation!

[Eirambler]

I don't see any progression there to be honest. As a footballer I would say, once your not a teenager, any time you're not playing at least semi-regularly you're probably stagnating to be honest. And I wouldn't count 99 minutes or whatever it is as playing semi-regularly.

[Razors left peg]

So by that logic should Ebosele have gone to Newport County, Dover Athletic or something called Havant & Waterlooville just so he could be playing 1st team football? These are the clubs McNamara was at around at similar age to Ebosele. Would that be more progression rather than being part of 1st team squad in Serie A?

[Eirambler]

No, he could have just gone to Swansea or somewhere like that where he'd get more game time. Or a Serie A team lower down the league if you prefer a non-British comparison, Salernitana or whoever.

I'm not saying he hasn't got time on his side or anything, but if he has only got 99 minutes of first team football this season, and we're near the end of February now, then he's in the wrong place at this point in time.

[Razors left peg]

No one is suggesting he starts now, but there is so much more upside to him to just another guy in Championship.

[John83]

I'm exhausted just reading this. It's like watching Nordie politics.

[elatedscum]

I'm exhausted just reading this. It's like watching Nordie politics.

Ah, we’ll all be pleasantly surprised if any of McNamara, Ebosele or Lyons get a call up in March. We don’t really need to go any deeper than that

[Diggs246]

Wait for the reaction when hourihane gets called up again!

[samhaydenjr]

OK, I think I kicked this all off when I noted that Festy had now matched Robbie Keane's appearance record in Serie A. But yes, there is a big difference between Festy's 6 appearances with 53 minutes, where he looked decent in the one game I watched and Evan Ferguson's 7 appearances with 304 minutes, where he has been AWESOME!! So yes, this window will come too soon for a senior call-up - as noted by lots of people, we're still covered at right-back or RWB. That said, he's got more minutes in the last couple of games - if he starts playing serious time and influencing games in the coming months, then maybe a call-up for Gibraltar might not be the most outlandish idea in the world

[pineapple stu]

Im also taking into account his previous game time in Championship and his age. You dont think its reasonable for him to move over, take some time to acclimatize to a new league and country and slowly start to get games? Be different if he played a couple of games early and hadnt been seen again.
Actually he started the Coppa Italia game in October, got hooked at halftime and pretty much didn't feature at all until the last couple of weeks. So...

Also, you don't need six months to acclimatise to a move to Italy.

[Razors left peg]

Actually he started the Coppa Italia game in October, got hooked at halftime and pretty much didn't feature at all until the last couple of weeks. So...

Also, you don't need six months to acclimatise to a move to Italy.

Career must be over so!

[pineapple stu]

I'll take "Things that were never said" for $600 please...!

[Razors left peg]

I'll take "Things that were never said" for $600 please...!

I'm just glad to in the presence of someone who knows how long it take any player to settle in a new country

[pineapple stu]

We now move on to "Things that were never said" for $800...

But Occam's Razor says it's unlikely to be the reason he's on the bench given the vast majority of players don't be set back months by a move to the continent like that.

[Razors left peg]

We now move on to "Things that were never said" for $800...



"you don't need six months to acclimatise to a move to Italy"... I take Paypal for my $800

Has your vast playing career in multiple countries given you such knowledge on how long it takes to settle in each one? I wish you could have had a word with Diego Dalot when he moved to United at a similar age to Ebosele. Hes been annoying me for a few years now trying to settle in, I wish you could have told him there was no need to settle and no learning curve

[pineapple stu]

Nope - I'm applying Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is often the most likely one. If you reckon he's having trouble acclimatising, let's see why. Otherwise, we can be happy that the far more likely reason he's hardly played at all all season is because it's a step up from Derby and he's not at the level yet. Just like Liam Scales going from Rovers to Celtic, for example.

I get the feeling you're just throwing out any suggestion which might back up your view that Ebosele is worth an international call-up, when all the evidence (and most of the posters here seem to agree) is that he's not.

[Razors left peg]

I clearly said earlier in this thread that I think its between Ebosele and Andy Lyons as the next man up in that position that is currently our strongest position. I mentioned that the spot in the squad would be as 3rd choice right back because both Coleman and Doherty are able to cover other positions.

He was called up in most recent squads, so the manager clearly thinks that he is worth a call up. He also didnt play him, probably because he is still very raw, but a lot of people were upset not to see him get a game because many thought he could inject some energy.

My opinion on Ebosele is based on what I seen him do in the Championship last season. He was electric at times, but as I said was very raw and far from the finished article. That rawness is why I have absolutely no issue with his career path in Italy so far. If he had gone to the Premiership I wouldnt have expected to see much of him either, he needs a lot of coaching, especially defensively. The fact that he is getting coached and being in around the First team all season, while getting the odd few mins to keep him engaged off the bench I see as a good thing. He could very easily have gone there and disappeared into their reserves and not being seen of again until he got a loan move to L1 or something.

This is the last Im gonna say on it because its getting boring. To me hes a fantasically exciting young talent, who at 20 years old has already proven that he can handle himself at Championship level and was ambitious enough not to just settle for that. He needed a lot of coaching and to me it would seem that there couldnt be a better place to learn defending than Serie A. I absolutely dont think he should be starting for Ireland right now, but I do think he could be in a year or so, so I see a benefit to having him in the squad. I see a much higher potential upside to having him in squad instead of someone like Cyrus Christie who is a solid career Championship level player.

[SkStu]

It's all gotten very feisty about festy.

[Stuttgart88]

And so begins another pun-fest...

[John83]

Stutts is getting testy.

(Don't worry; this one doesn't have legs.)

[paul_oshea]

We now move on to "Things that were never said" for $800...

But Occam's Razor says it's unlikely to be the reason he's on the bench given the vast majority of players don't be set back months by a move to the continent like that.

Didnt you know Football players are not like us mere mortals. Unchartered territory moving to new countries Phd and Post-Doctoral studies the world over have been conducted on same.