Qatar v Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 30th March 2021 - Friendly

[wonder88]

Leaving out Shane Duffy and Hendricks was clearly a mistake by Kenny. McClean was not fit (so maybe understandable) but Long should have got more time as well.

[tetsujin1979]

Things got a bit spiky with Tony O'Donoghue in the post match interview
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[ontheotherhand]

Do I think I'm harsh? Nope. Three or four howlers in the two games and he's been lucky to get away with them. Great prospect, but he's not a positive from tonight's game.


Decisively wrong isn't much good to us!

I hope he does learn from it. But he's got a lot to learn still. I can see why he's conceding two a game at Rochdale for example.

You were a little concerned by Bazunu to begin with weren't you? Questioned whether he was highly rated at Man City etc?

He kept us in the game against Luxembourg with some fine saves at point blank range. He's also made a few overly committed moves. Howlers is a stretch. Nothing got through him for a goal did it? Few dangerous passes out. Few balls claimed that he might have left. He's 19. I think anyone who didn't already have an opinion formed probably thinks he did well over the two games. The ones I know do at least. On here most seemed to want to stick with him after Lux. Those looking for errors will highlight them and those who believe in him will forgive the errors and focus on the saves, the confidence and the fact he only conceded two great strikers.

He looked much more comfortable than Travers and at 19 I think he will get better and better.

[Olé Olé]

Things got a bit spiky with Tony O'Donoghue in the post match interview
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I don't know if it was even intended to be spiky. It felt to me like Kenny went out there to make some points in the face of plenty of criticism and he needed to warm himself up before forcing out those points. Calling out his record at Dundalk and with the Irish under 21s to imply he is a serial winner didn't do anything to amend the results we have seen since he became senior manager.

I like him and have sympathy for him in the circumstances but beating your chest to a remote interviewer doesn't serve much of a purpose. Kenny would be better off accepting that the noise of the last few days is inevitable and, based on the results, justified. Just work towards fixing it.

[Olé Olé]

You know things are really bad when you draw 1-1 with Qatar and people are saying it's a decent result. It's another dreadful result if we're being honest, we're just more conditioned to them now, which is probably just as well given how the autumn games are likely to go under Kenny.

As for Parrott, hopefully he makes it as a decent professional and a solid international, there's plenty of time for him to develop. But he must be the most overhyped wonderkid to ever leave our shores. Was being made out like he was the next Robbie Keane. He is nowhere near the level Keane was at at a similar age. Anthony Stokes was better at 19 than Parrott is.

I think the Parrott hype has subsided for now. There are a lot more people looking to call out the hype merchants than there are hype merchants.

[Insidetherock]

19 games it took Michael O Neill to win one for the North.. 19.. including a loss to Luxembourg

And two years later, he got them to the Euros

Player wise, what has Kenny got that we haven't seen yet?

We're hammering 19 y olds for not being world beaters ffs

[DCWA]

Kenny would be better off accepting that the noise of the last few days is inevitable and, based on the results, justified. Just work towards fixing it.

He has done that repeatedly and mentioned twice again in his post match interview this evening how he/they are not happy at failing to beat Luxembourg.

TO’D ends the interview by saying “well said” to SK are to we take from that he is in agreement with him? Not usually how an interviewer would wrap it up.

[EalingGreen]

19 games it took Michael O Neill to win one for the North.. 19.. including a loss to Luxembourg

And two years later, he got them to the Euros
Not quite.

He won his 10th game, vs Russia in a WCQ.

Granted, it was another 8 games before he won his next(!), but that second win was away to Hungary, the opener of the ECQ's where they went on to win 6, draw 3 and lose just the once to top the group.

The real point being that even during that winless sequence, he never quite "lost the dressing room", even if he did lose/discard one or two individuals along the way.

I'm not qualified to judge SK, but if he is to have any chance it is essential he sticks to his guns with whatever he wants to do, since players need certainty, all the more when they are young and results aren't going their way.

This interview with Michael O'Neill summed it up for me:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/news/michael-oneill-reveals-biggest-regret-as-northern-ireland-manager/ar-BB14NIVM

[D24Saint]

Things got a bit spiky with Tony O'Donoghue in the post match interview
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Im a big fan of his and wished him well in the Ireland job but. He comes across absolutely awful in recent interviews, the stress is apparent and he just ends up waffling.

[zero]

I actually found that interview gave me a bit more confidence in Kenny. He came across as far from beaten to me and determined to get it right.

I hope he does.

[Insidetherock]

Just looking at this piece from the beginning of 2020..

So far, of the 20 for 20.. eight of these players have now played senior international games under Kenny.. nearly half the ones to watch. These are all kids.. only starting out on their football careers, never mind senior international careers

A few more will be hoping to make breakthroughs in the next two to three years.. Obafemi.. Afolabi.. another not on the list is Barry Coffey at Celtic.. John Patrick Finn, who's already playing La Liga at 17..

The misfortune that Kenny may have, is he could end up being the manager who bloods practically a whole new squad, simply to hand it over to someone else just as they are on the cusp of a real breakthrough

We keep talking about "developing players".. development takes time.. it could be the 26 World Cup.. even the 2030 World Cup, when these players are between 26-30... absolute in their prime before we get to really see what they are worth

But we're still screaming for "results right now".. while all the time preaching "development"

To many Irish fans are like those parents who nod their heads at the clubs Child Welfare Course.. and then go back out Saturday morning screaming at children and muttering under their breath about what a "useless f**ker that young lad is"...

Yeah.. we should probably have beaten Luxembourg... but if the team bonds in adversity, maybe it might not have been the worst thing that could have happened

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/1204/1096905-20-for-2020-the-irish-youngsters-ready-to-rise/

[Charlie Darwin]

First half was decent, second half we ceded the game to them. Qatar are a half-decent side and were cutting us up at times even when we were on top, but you'd be disappointed to give away a lead like that. Bazunu made a couple of bad errors but he more of less got away with them, which suggests he may have the most important thing for a keeper, luck.

[Kingdom]

I'm a bit perplexed by the whole thing and lots of thoughts have been rambling around my head since the Lux result
This was such a good post, do I agree with it all - no, but even the parts that I don't, it's a case of "it's a decent point there to be fair!". Really summed up a lot how I was feeling pre-game. I would always try to play down the negatives and promote the positives, no matter how bad things were. I couldn't see us not beating Luxembourg - not because of them or their recent record - but because of us.
I wonder why aren't doing things differently. There's another thread on Euro U21s vs Euro 20. I choose 21s. I've constantly banged on about the youth squads, and the crucial mistakes we were making - ignoring the 21s - it's an absolutely pivotal age group in terms of developing a national team - and we've ignored it for generations. We have to stop making the same mistakes over and over and over again.

I put a post up here somewhere else which highlighted the inadequacies of the players we're currently selecting - but it's like that's an irrelevance!

these are some of the positions on this thread before the game:
BOOMSHAKALAKA (https://foot.ie/threads/265611-Qatar-v-Republic-of-Ireland-Tuesday-30th-March-2021-Friendly?p=2071614&viewfull=1#post2071614) supported by Diggs and zero to a degree hammering Kenny, with a balanced riposte by neverfeltbetter. BOOM then doubles down, with insidetherock giving an interesting an accurate comment about being 'damned if he does, damned if he doesn't' supported by TonyD. Bungle's critical because Kenny doesn't go all billy-big-balls to the begrudgers.

Then in the game itself, nobody picks up on the role Molumby played in the goal, or the fact that it is clearly a training ground move. We've looked really really good from defensive set pieces over this window, minus Duffy shock horror, and this was a beautiful goal. Not everything has to be an outswinger for the giant to head down. We've wasted far too much possession in the past 4 years on that. And on Molumby, tonight he solves exactly the problem that almost everyone complained about for the past 10 yrs, with a midfielder receiving the ball, and having the courage of his convictions to turn, move into space and use the ball positively, but nare a comment. We see recognition of Long's woeful inadequacy in front of goal - just about - but that's ok because as a 34 yr old he runs teams ragged. Funny how Aaron Connolly didn't get quite so much leniency against Serbia, despite actually running himself into the ground, and being on the receiving end of a legitimate penalty appeal? Insidetherock and tommy then come to the rescue.

After the game, Straightstory then questions the hype of Parrot, and where has it come from, and that **** it, he may not worry about Ireland anyway, as his career is going to tank through the Divisions - I guess he may just sign for Sherrif YC next season, and get it over with soon sure? Thankfully someone points out that he's actually only 19 (and has been injured). Eirambler pretty much consolidates that point, equating it with Stokes (Difference being is that Stokes was actually a lauded Wunderkind at 13, not 19).


https://foot.ie/threads/265611-Qatar-v-Republic-of-Ireland-Tuesday-30th-March-2021-Friendly?p=2071794&viewfull=1#post2071794
I think there is some progress there.

This is a really good assessment of the game, and is balanced and fair. The Bazunu analysis notes the deficiencies in the game that are clear as day, but also highlights what would appear -to me anyway- to levitate him above Travers, and that's confidence. The boy does not appear to have any fear. Travers by contrast looked as nervous as young Kingdom did when he first got his hands down Ms. Kingdom's panties all those years ago. And that counts for a lot, a hell of a lot. For god sake, Stu points out that there's no surprise that he's conceding two goals a game in L1 with Rochdale - but didn't Travers concede 3 in one game just last week?

But the posts on the thread post-game is a synopsis of what really ****es me off when people watch Ireland. Nobody, not once, mentions that its another variation on the system that we've played. We had a back 3 - fine; wing-backs - fine; but everything else was different. We didn't have three pressing players, we had a generally central box of 4 behind Shane Long: a sitting two (Molumby and Hendrick) and a pressing two (Horgan and Brady). This allowed the two wing-backs to be much more aggressive in their positions and how they engaged on the pitch, and resulted in us being able to press higher as a team, and being able to work formations in the different quadrants on the pitch.
And generally speaking, in the first half it worked. We were more energetic, we got our better attacking players into the final third of the pitch, and we looked really comfortable on the ball most of the time, and were able to attack down both sides of the pitch and look dangerous, while being relatively settled at the back.
And in Jason Molumby we have a gem of a player, and it really bugs me that there isn't enough appreciation of it. I saw him being critically analysed about all he does wrong after Serbia by an LOI analyst on twitter, then heard Brady's "he only fouls people" line, which curried favour with a few on here. Yet for all of this, he's a 22 yr old Preston sub, and when he went off against Serbia, our midfield disappeared. And in the first half tonight he was superb. He prevented them from coming through us, he won ball, he retained possession in tight spots, and crucially he is not afraid to look for the ball, or to give the ball in areas where we would normally hoof.

Even when we do things wrong, we're all eager to point the finger in one direction (travers vs Serbia, Cullen/mf vs Lux). even tonight one mate mentioned it was Molumby, as did "Karen" on RTE [the same Karen who blamed Molumby for poor-decision making against Lux (fundamental problem there Karen)]. The goal was a calamity from start to finish. McClean jumps for a header that he was never winning, and takes himself our of the game - Dara O'Shea gets dragged out covering, has to tackle and gets taken out of the game, Jeff Hendrick makes a really shoddy effort to challenge and doesn't particularly bust a gut getting caught ahead of the play. Molumby has slotted in to cover DOS, and Duffy is too late to meet the attacker, gets slipped too easily and Molumby absolutely doesn't close down the shot quick enough. That's 5 players who perfrom poorly through a move, and we concede. That's just poor all round.

When we're being critical of the manager, of the players, or of the tactics, we've got to be cognisent of what's being tried by the manager. And it's linked to the other thread on development. We have one absolutely huge problem in our team, and in our squad. We have not got one player who is indispensible to their club side, and crucially, we've not got one attacking player who is the cog in their club side. And it's arguable that we've not had one since Wes retired. This is a massive problem, because it means that when we're in trouble, when we need to dig something out, the players who are used to having other players do it for them at club level, now have to shoulder that responsibility themselves. And therein lies Parrott, Idah and Connolly - and in my opinion what Kenny is possibly trying to do at MNT level.

We're now seeing the first wave of players coming through from the RDP and the emerging talent squads. These guys all know each other inside out, they know who are the leaders, and who the go to players are. and this comes back to a post I've thanked (possibly osarusan's) - Kenny may not be the best manager for IE going forward, and it may still get worse, before we turn a corner. But with the gaping hole that we have in the age profile of the squad (Alan Browne aside), Randolph. Duffy, Hendrick, Brady, Long, McClean - they're gone, they'll not be of any use for Euro 2024.
Kelleher, Bazunu, travers, DOS, Knight, Molumby, Parrott, Connolly, Idah - that's the core that we are going to be relying on from Sept 2022 onwards. so that if/when Connell, Noss, Finn, Watson, Collins, Omabademele, McGuinness break into the senior squad, that those lads are ensconced and know what way we play, what style we have, and what the culture is. And it will play dividends eventually. And the great thing is that with a bit of patience, and a bit of perspective - it may not be Kenny that ultimately presides over such a breakthrough, or reaps the benefits, likelihood is that it won't be - but we'll all enjoy it a bit more.
If you ignore the talk of changing how we play - and the bitterness that could fester inside some of the older players - we absolutely were going to have to overhaul the squad, because it wasn't getting us where we needed to be, and is only getting older. Kenny's hamstrung at the moment in terms of squad selection, and I reckon he'll be much happier after this window in terms of the squad - he will know what works, what doesn't, and who works and who doesn't.
He's gone from a 433 (or a variety on it), to a 352 and then to a 3421, without it being hugely effective in a positive sense on our play, but nor has it been destructive to us either. A positive is that the personnel took to it pretty well across all 3 games. Fading in games is an issue. In all 3 games we were in relatively secure positions at half-time in each, and then crumbled. That absolutely has to be addressed.

[Kingdom]

Leaving out Shane Duffy and Hendricks was clearly a mistake by Kenny. McClean was not fit (so maybe understandable) but Long should have got more time as well.
It wasn't - clearly. Jeff Hendrick doesn't deserve to be in this Irish team. He's a senior player now, and should be leading by example, but simply doesn't. For one of the most athletic players in the PL, he has been underwhelming for Ireland for a long time, and his form of 2016 and early 2017 is well in the rear-view mirror.
Shane Duffy played well tonight, in a game that was important for his own personal pride. Taking him out of the game against Serbia was the right decision. Seamus has played very well as the RCB, and Serbia away is the type of game DOS is going to need for experience. That will have done him the world of good.

As for Long - nobody mentions the sitter he missed tonight?



I think some folks are so desperate for green shoots that they're wilfully ignoring mistakes from Bazunu.

I thought the good tonight included Duffy, McClean, Coleman, O'Shea, and Long. Flashes from Christie, Knight and Brady too, and a solid shift from Horgan. Robinson was dire. Molumby wasn't great. Bazunu was shaky. Parrott didn't catch my eye much, for good or bad. All I saw tonight was a suggestion that Kenny made a bags of the team selections last week in the games that mattered. I said before the game that a score draw would be a good result, and I stand by that.

of course we're desperate for green shoots - but perhaps you're not being yourself regarding the wilfully ignoring mistakes: no reference to Shane's absolute horror miss, or the stinker of a second half by Cyrus. brady was on the pitch fro the guts on 20 mins!
You're absolutely wrong about Molumby tonight. He was up there with Dara O'Shea and Seamus as our best player.


I think anyone who didn't already have an opinion formed probably thinks he did well over the two games. The ones I know do at least. On here most seemed to want to stick with him after Lux. Those looking for errors will highlight them and those who believe in him will forgive the errors and focus on the saves, the confidence and the fact he only conceded two great strikers.
He looked much more comfortable than Travers and at 19 I think he will get better and better.
Exactly!!! Again, it sort of comes back to this thing on this forum where there's no middle ground. there's no acknowledgement that some parts of a players performance can be good, while parts can be bad.


I think the Parrott hype has subsided for now. There are a lot more people looking to call out the hype merchants than there are hype merchants.
Troy has the footballing brain and skillset to be our most pivotal player for the next decade. He needs luck, he needs to be focussed and he needs a few things to go his way. IMO, the Robbie Keane comparisons are stupid. The Stokes comparison is actually closer. That went off the rails pretty quickly, and the same absolutely could happen. I've seen him a few times underage and he's beautiful to watch. Personally, I wouldn't play him as the 9 - tonight was a needs must - I'd play him as a 10, and the propsect of himself Connolly and AN Other playing behind an Idah, Kayode or Afolabi (or a worzel gummage who can score -take your pick) is something to look forward to.
It's got to be remembered that he's had his own injuries to deal with, he has grown a good bit too, and his first proper loan move was hampered by an injury in the first weeks. Like most of these guys, summer will be important, and we'll know pretty well by the end of 22 season where we stand.


Just looking at this piece from the beginning of 2020..

So far, of the 20 for 20.. eight of these players have now played senior international games under Kenny.. nearly half the ones to watch. These are all kids.. only starting out on their football careers, never mind senior international careers

A few more will be hoping to make breakthroughs in the next two to three years.. Obafemi.. Afolabi.. another not on the list is Barry Coffey at Celtic.. John Patrick Finn, who's already playing La Liga at 17..

The misfortune that Kenny may have, is he could end up being the manager who bloods practically a whole new squad, simply to hand it over to someone else just as they are on the cusp of a real breakthrough

We keep talking about "developing players".. development takes time.. it could be the 26 World Cup.. even the 2030 World Cup, when these players are between 26-30... absolute in their prime before we get to really see what they are worth

But we're still screaming for "results right now".. while all the time preaching "development"

To many Irish fans are like those parents who nod their heads at the clubs Child Welfare Course.. and then go back out Saturday morning screaming at children and muttering under their breath about what a "useless f**ker that young lad is"...

Yeah.. we should probably have beaten Luxembourg... but if the team bonds in adversity, maybe it might not have been the worst thing that could have happened

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019...ready-to-rise/
Beautiful. I agree completely.

[Charlie Darwin]

Troy has the footballing brain and skillset to be our most pivotal player for the next decade. He needs luck, he needs to be focussed and he needs a few things to go his way. IMO, the Robbie Keane comparisons are stupid. The Stokes comparison is actually closer. That went off the rails pretty quickly, and the same absolutely could happen. I've seen him a few times underage and he's beautiful to watch. Personally, I wouldn't play him as the 9 - tonight was a needs must - I'd play him as a 10, and the propsect of himself Connolly and AN Other playing behind an Idah, Kayode or Afolabi (or a worzel gummage who can score -take your pick) is something to look forward to.
I don't think he played nine tonight though, did he? I thought he and Horgan were sitting behind Long.

[Razors left peg]

I watched the game late today. I haven't gone through the thread. I haven't fully made my mind up on what I actually think, but I have one thought that's front and center.... we have probably created more chances in the last 3 games than the entire last campaign. Can some of these players start putting the effin ball in the effin net FFS.

Yeah Kenny might be the wrong man but it's getting ridiculous now the amount of great chances players are missing

[jbyrne]

bit better performance. I liked the way we mixed it up a bit more with balls down the line and diagonal balls. This is where we are stronger even if the tippy tappy purists don't agree with it.
Thought some of the returning veterans did well and showed there is still life in them yet.

I cant understand why we insist on kicking all our goal kicks very short. surely there is merit in hitting the odd one long if for no other reason than keeping the opposition guessing?

[Olé Olé]

I watched the game late today. I haven't gone through the thread. I haven't fully made my mind up on what I actually think, but I have one thought that's front and center.... we have probably created more chances in the last 3 games than the entire last campaign. Can some of these players start putting the effin ball in the effin net FFS.

Yeah Kenny might be the wrong man but it's getting ridiculous now the amount of great chances players are missing

This. It drove me demented last night. Long's effort in the first half. Robinson not getting it on target when the keeper was at sea. Christie with a few half chances and one in the second half where he snatched at it with his much weaker left leg. Cullen with the backpost header towards the end.

So many chances that were wasted or that didn't even threaten the keeper. And if McClean's one didn't go in- which it may well not have if the deflection went elsewhere- then the noise would be so loud.

I know a lot of our players don't have international goals under their belts and may not be prolific at club level but there have been so many chances that a proficient footballer should be doing better with.

And it all started in similar fashion in Slovakia. And even against Luxembourg on Saturday night, it was a trailing right leg of the keeper that kept out Collins' early effort.

[Snapshot]

I actually found that interview gave me a bit more confidence in Kenny. He came across as far from beaten to me and determined to get it right.

I hope he does.
I thought otherwise - he seemed defensive and stressed. We certainly didn't need the spruiking of his LOI and U23 glory - it only served those who consider him out of his depth. It's a tough gig, but when you deliver probably the worst result in Irish football history, you must know you need to do better.

[bennocelt]

19 games it took Michael O Neill to win one for the North.. 19.. including a loss to Luxembourg

And two years later, he got them to the Euros

Player wise, what has Kenny got that we haven't seen yet?

We're hammering 19 y olds for not being world beaters ffs


To the last 16 in Europe, amazing stuff..........:rolleyes:

[seanfhear]

I actually found that interview gave me a bit more confidence in Kenny. He came across as far from beaten to me and determined to get it right.

I hope he does.
Showed a bit of fight at the end = = Can’t Hurt.

[pineapple stu]

You were a little concerned by Bazunu to begin with weren't you? Questioned whether he was highly rated at Man City etc?

He kept us in the game against Luxembourg with some fine saves at point blank range. He's also made a few overly committed moves. Howlers is a stretch. Nothing got through him for a goal did it?
Yes, and nothing I saw in the two games has really changed my mind of that.

The three rushes of blood - coming to the corner of the box against Luxembourg, and clobbering the Qatar guy outside the box and coming to the edge of the box to drop the ball - were all in the howler category for me. They could very easily have cost goals - that they didn't was nothing to do with him - and they were the sort of things that would put the jitters into your own defence (look at them later on calling him to claim a ball; that's very unusual and maybe indicates a lack of confidence in him, coupled with a welcome willingness to help him along). The two horrible passes out of defence - one in each game - are a lesser category of error. Stutts flagged a positioning error from a free against Luxembourg too. Maybe Dean Kiely as coach would note a smaller positioning error for both goals - which were similar in a way; low drives from 20 yards to the right - but certainly it would be harsh to blame him for either.

But the thing is, he's playing for Rochdale - they're a professional football team and as such it's a decent level. You have to have a lot of stuff right about you to be playing there - you have to have a base level of reflexes, etc. But there's a gap up to the top, and that's why I think with a keeper you have to highlight the rushes of blood, because it's what defines that gap. Arguably we were a bit lucky Qatar didn't threaten much after their equaliser or we may have seen more misjudgements.

Yes, he's 19 and is a big prospect. But there is no way you can conclude his performance from last night in particular was a plus. For me, it was a Kevin Kilbane in Iceland performance (and we know what happened him after that). And there's no harm in being rational about the performance and pointing that out. If it were an opposition keeper, we'd rightly be highlighting it.

Portugal away is six months away and he'll learn a lot between now and then. But I'd be terrified of him in nets for that game. The big goalkeeping pity of the last week is that we didn't get to see Kelleher in nets.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Northern Ireland last qualified for a major tournament in 1986 prior to Michael O Neill taking over. 25 years. Ireland qualified for Euro 2016, 4 years before Kenny took over. The manager prior to Kenny came close to qualifying with the same standard of players. Kenny has driven us backwards. Previous regimes have been widely lambasted as well so for Kenny to have overseen results and performances as bad as we have ever seen in our history, surely some criticism is deserved?

And people keep referring to Kenny being unlucky. In my view, he's one of the luckiest managers we've ever had. What other manager has been given free reign to stay in their job no matter how bad results or performances are? Were people saying Staunton should be given more time to integrate players into his system? Staunton only had 17 matches and he lost fewer games than Kenny has already. And have we even played any top teams? Wales? Serbia are ranked 30th in the world. We played England in a friendly and got humiliated.

Kenny has had fixtures against average to poor opposition and failed to win a single game with scoring very few goals. Any signs of encouragement or things improving have been scant. He turned to the experienced players he had dropped last night to try to get a result. We've lined up Andorra in the summer for him to finally get a win. He will most likely get this group to see how he goes because we can't afford to sack him. Battling it out with Luxembourg and Azerbaijan to see who finishes bottom can't be accepted. We're not the minnows some want to paint us as, we should have qualified for the last tournament and only lost 1 game in that qualifying group.

[Kingdom]

I don't think he played nine tonight though, did he? I thought he and Horgan were sitting behind Long.

When he replaced Brady it was behind Long on Christie’s side of the pitch and I think we saw some really good moments from him. Second half, he, like the team generally didn’t offer as much. But when he went “up top” after Long went off, I don’t recall seeing him involved as much, which tbf wasn’t hugely so in the immediate minutes before the substitution - I don’t think?

[Kingdom]

bit better performance. I liked the way we mixed it up a bit more with balls down the line and diagonal balls. This is where we are stronger even if the tippy tappy purists don't agree with it.
Thought some of the returning veterans did well and showed there is still life in them yet.

I cant understand why we insist on kicking all our goal kicks very short. surely there is merit in hitting the odd one long if for no other reason than keeping the opposition guessing?

First thing I can think of is that we’re a small team. Even the famous Long salmon reap isn’t winning as much in the air.
Long, Brady, Horgan, Knight, Molumby, Coleman - they’re all under 6ft. Qatar had a couple of miserable streaks of salt playing for them last night.
I’d say the fact that Serbia’s goal came directly from one of our kick outs being punted long won’t have been ignored either.

[Stuttgart88]

I actually thought Bazunu's catch and drop on the 18 year line was class. Seamus Coleman(?) thought so too. The other dash was braindead. Even a LSL keeper wouldn't have come for that. But he's a confident lad and wears the jersey well, as if he thinks he belongs. That's important. A nervous keeper affects the defenders. The defenders trust him and that's good start.

Molumby, particularly first half was great. Took the ball in tight spots, pivoted and found nice angled short passes that often led to space being created between Qatar's lines one or two passes later.

O'Shea has looked comfortable at this level since his first game in Finland. Superb player.

Knight looked much better yesterday.

Parrott now has game time but I feel given the spaces and situations he found himself in Jack Byrne would have used the ball better. McGeady certainly would have. But promising enough yesterday.

Long ran the channels well and made himself noticed. I hope Idah was watching.

Christie looks better for Ireland than Doc. Horgan gave the ball away suicidally once but I like what he brings overall.

I think overall our good bits were good, our frustrating bits were frustrating. Long's 1-1 for example. My real time reaction on Cullen's late miss was that he had to score but I took a still photo of the moment of impact: he was a bit further out than I thought, he attacked it well and met it well, accurate and low. But the keeper for some bizarre reason was actually not in the middle of his goal, he was too far too his right and was covering exactly where Cullen hit it. Had Cullen hit it to the keeper's left it was a goal but given the angle of his run that'd have been a didfficult thing to do. That was my take.

Overall last night I thought it was alarming how many chances we shipped from 18-20 yards. Better finishing - think Eriksen's masterclass in Dublin - and that was 3 or 4 goals. But our best bits were quite good. The positives are that Bazunu, O'Shea, Molumby, Connolly and Knight are now almost experienced internationals, Idah and Parrott aren't far behind now. Kelleher and Collins will surely stake claim in the next 12 months.

I liked the end of Kenny's interview yesterday. I hope he turns it around. His situation reminds me of Stephen Bradley at Rovers. Two years ago the fans were just exasperated by him. They were fond of him but thought enough was enough there was no sign of progress. A cup win and league title followed.

[DeLorean]

no reference to Shane's absolute horror miss

Oh come off it, we all know what a horror miss looks like and that wasn't remotely close to one. Good chance, yes, should have scored, probably.

[Kingdom]

Oh come off it, we all know what a horror miss looks like and that wasn't remotely close to one. Good chance, yes, should have scored, probably.

Horror miss is pushing it, fair enough.
But in the context of a team that has struggled for chances, let alone goals, a 1-on-1 with the striker the vast majority of fans have called for to be in the team, is more than a good chance.

[pineapple stu]

It's certainly indicative of the problems we have up front at the moment. We can't buy a goal. Long was never a great goalscorer, though 17 for the national team is half-decent. Robinson offers little that I've seen. Connolly and Parrott would in usual times be still with the 21s developing, as would Idah if he weren't injured. Curtis and Collins aren't great at international level. Maguire started well for Preston but hasn't kicked on. And that's our choice. It's really not great. And if you can't score, you're in trouble before you start.

[Stuttgart88]

Was Hogan discarded too early? Clutching at even more straws I suppose!

[Kingdom]

Was Hogan discarded too early? Clutching at even more straws I suppose!

I don’t think so Stutts - that goes down as one of your blind spots, as much as Idah goes down as one of mine ��

[Kingdom]

It's certainly indicative of the problems we have up front at the moment. We can't buy a goal. Long was never a great goalscorer, though 17 for the national team is half-decent. Robinson offers little that I've seen. Connolly and Parrott would in usual times be still with the 21s developing, as would Idah if he weren't injured. Curtis and Collins aren't great at international level. Maguire started well for Preston but hasn't kicked on. And that's our choice. It's really not great. And if you can't score, you're in trouble before you start.

That’s it in a nutshell. I suppose a positive take is that Connolly idah and Parrot to a lesser extent are cutting their teeth at the same time, and doing so when there is a paucity of options, so aren’t being singled out or isolated as being ****e.

Robinson has looked more like a creator than a goalscorer, but likewise isn’t getting the ball in good enough positions to justify continued inclusion in the stsrting 11. If anything he’s included because we haven’t found a proper reliable solution to that attacking right position - whether it’s wide as part of a 3, or just behind the 9.

I really dislike him as a creative player, but one thing you have to hand to James McClean is that he hits the back of the net with regularity in relation to the chances created for him. If we’re not playing a system where we are whipping balls into the box, and are engaging with an aggressive high press, I wouldn’t be against trying him centrally in the absence of other options . Appreciate that’s a bit off-the-wall or irrational though.

[pineapple stu]

That’s it in a nutshell. I suppose a positive take is that Connolly idah and Parrot to a lesser extent are cutting their teeth at the same time, and doing so when there is a paucity of options, so aren’t being singled out or isolated as being ****e.
Well, Parrott was being singled out as ****e earlier in this very thread :)

But yeah, I think there's an element of trying to see these guys - and I'd add the four keepers incl Kelleher in there - as being ahead of where they actually are in their development, and it can lead to frustration when they're then off the pace.

You cannae polish a turd, as they say. But all these guys have potential - some will fall away, but we should start seeing 3 or 4 very solid options there shortly, and then results will start to improve.

It's the factor that's swinging me (just about) in favour of keeping Kenny for now.

[weldoninhio]

I watched the game late today. I haven't gone through the thread. I haven't fully made my mind up on what I actually think, but I have one thought that's front and center.... we have probably created more chances in the last 3 games than the entire last campaign. Can some of these players start putting the effin ball in the effin net FFS.

Yeah Kenny might be the wrong man but it's getting ridiculous now the amount of great chances players are missing

In the 3 games we created 21 chances, that includes shots on and off target. In Micks last game vs Denmark we created 18 chances. The recency bias is strong.

[Snapshot]

That’s it in a nutshell. I suppose a positive take is that Connolly idah and Parrot to a lesser extent are cutting their teeth at the same time, and doing so when there is a paucity of options, so aren’t being singled out or isolated as being ****e.

Robinson has looked more like a creator than a goalscorer, but likewise isn’t getting the ball in good enough positions to justify continued inclusion in the stsrting 11. If anything he’s included because we haven’t found a proper reliable solution to that attacking right position - whether it’s wide as part of a 3, or just behind the 9.

I really dislike him as a creative player, but one thing you have to hand to James McClean is that he hits the back of the net with regularity in relation to the chances created for him. If we’re not playing a system where we are whipping balls into the box, and are engaging with an aggressive high press, I wouldn’t be against trying him centrally in the absence of other options . Appreciate that’s a bit off-the-wall or irrational though.

I don't see Idah, Parrott, Molumby, Travers, Connolly, Manning, Knight, Browne, Byrne, Obafemi or Coventry having EPL careers. At best, like Hourihane - they're nearly but not quite. Yet these formed the Golden Generation on which, apparently, a new era would be built. It's now possible that within three years we'll be an EPL-free zone. Also worrying, given our current historic low, is that no half-decent granny-ruler would waste a second thought on becoming Irish. Rice, Grealish and even Bamford must be very relieved they dodged the green bullet.

[tetsujin1979]

In the 3 games we created 21 chances, that includes shots on and off target. In Micks last game vs Denmark we created 18 chances. The recency bias is strong.
I'd like to see your source for these values - I make it 28 and 15:
11 V Qatar: https://www.skysports.com/football/qatar-vs-republic-of-ireland/stats/441509
11 V Luxembourg: https://www.skysports.com/football/republic-of-ireland-vs-luxembourg/stats/441552
6 V Serbia: https://www.skysports.com/football/serbia-vs-republic-of-ireland/stats/441530

15 V Denmark: https://www.skysports.com/football/republic-of-ireland-vs-denmark/stats/403437

[Diggs246]

I dont agree with knight. He will have an excellent premier league career.

[Kingdom]

In the 3 games we created 21 chances, that includes shots on and off target. In Micks last game vs Denmark we created 18 chances. The recency bias is strong.

1st half: Hourihane, Browne, McGoldrick*, Duffy missed header, (3/4)
2nd half: Hourihane cross*, Clark missed header*, McGoldrick swivel on penonspot, Doherty goal (2/4)

8 arguable potential chances, 4/5 actual chances.

https://youtu.be/yTGXnXkR3ZM

We all know you don’t like Kenny, and that you’d prefer someone else. No problem.
Nobody argues that the perfect against Denmark was good. No problem.
But don’t be pulling nonsense stats out of your jacksy. Be fair to yourself and to us.

[Kingdom]

I don't see Idah, Parrott, Molumby, Travers, Connolly, Manning, Knight, Browne, Byrne, Obafemi or Coventry having EPL careers. At best, like Hourihane - they're nearly but not quite. Yet these formed the Golden Generation on which, apparently, a new era would be built. It's now possible that within three years we'll be an EPL-free zone. Also worrying, given our current historic low, is that no half-decent granny-ruler would waste a second thought on becoming Irish. Rice, Grealish and even Bamford must be very relieved they dodged the green bullet.

I guess we’re ****ed so.
We’ll just pack it in? Or
Maybe the EPL doesn’t have to be the stick that we measure our squad on.

And unfortunately your use of Golden Generation is probably symptomatic of a bigger problem we face, in that we only expect one decent crop of youth players a generation, and hope that a couple breakthrough, and that we supplement these players onto “granny-rulers”.

We hopefully will be looking at pulling 3/3 players every second crop into the senior squad, regardless of where they ply their trade.

[Snapshot]

I guess we’re ****ed so.
We’ll just pack it in? Or
Maybe the EPL doesn’t have to be the stick that we measure our squad on.

And unfortunately your use of Golden Generation is probably symptomatic of a bigger problem we face, in that we only expect one decent crop of youth players a generation, and hope that a couple breakthrough, and that we supplement these players onto “granny-rulers”.

We hopefully will be looking at pulling 3/3 players every second crop into the senior squad, regardless of where they ply their trade.
You must have been very disappointed with Jack Charlton's modus operandi. Whether we like it or not, the EPL is the yardstick for most. If John Giles says our schoolboy set-up and supply chain is in tatters, I tend to believe him.

[Kingdom]

Put your bias aside and read what I said. I’ve granny-rulers in quotes because, in my eyes they aren’t granny rulers, they are Irish qualified players.
I’ve no truck with players not born in Ireland playing for us. I’ve no truck with players born in Ireland who don’t want to play for us, who might not consider themselves Irish. Such is life.
If I’d the time, I’d love to do a breakdown of what players playing European international football play in the PL.
I’m not going to even address the Giles comment. If that’s the basis for some of your positions, I know that
A- it’s a waste of my time
B- Irish football doesn’t stand a chance of any kind of reform.

[jbyrne]

You must have been very disappointed with Jack Charlton's modus operandi. Whether we like it or not, the EPL is the yardstick for most. If John Giles says our schoolboy set-up and supply chain is in tatters, I tend to believe him.

while giles may be correct, do you really believe that his view is based on any research?
If it cant be tied back to his Leeds team of the 70s then he is lost.

He named his preferred team on OTB last week. I stopped counting when he hit what seemed like his 14th player!

[weldoninhio]

I counted up all on target and off target shots. Not shots that hit the first man. 7 vs Qatar, 7 vs Luxembourg, 5 vs Serbia. 19 from Sky Sport. I got the Ireland Denmark stats from ESPN. https://www.espn.com/soccer/match?gameId=529038


I seem to have my matches mixed up. It was 10 shots in the home game vs Denmark. I apologise.

[Snapshot]

while giles may be correct, do you really believe that his view is based on any research?
If it cant be tied back to his Leeds team of the 70s then he is lost.

He named his preferred team on OTB last week. I stopped counting when he hit what seemed like his 14th player!

His John Giles Foundation would have been involved. Your Leeds comment is nonsense. As for your second point, Giles may stumble occasionally with stats and names but he's still very sound of mind at near 80.

[jbyrne]

His John Giles Foundation would have been involved. Your Leeds comment is nonsense. As for your second point, Giles may stumble occasionally with stats and names but he's still very sound of mind at near 80.

exactly how deeply is he involved with the Foundation?
Did you read champagne football and its references to same?
Even last week in a discussion about the Irish team he kept making references to the Leeds team of the 70s and the slightly later Forest team with Martin O'Neill in it. It was irrelevant, but its his comfort zone.

[Snapshot]

exactly how deeply is he involved with the Foundation?
Did you read champagne football and its references to same?
Even last week in a discussion about the Irish team he kept making references to the Leeds team of the 70s and the slightly later Forest team with Martin O'Neill in it. It was irrelevant, but its his comfort zone.

You are probably alluding to The Stand where he spoke with Eamon Dunphy about recent Ireland defeats. He made short and relevant reference to the effectiveness of John Robertson and Martin O'Neill at Forest and, briefly, wingers at Leeds when suggesting James MacLean should face Qatar. It proved accurate. His Leeds references are occasional and not constant.

I don't know what his current input is at JGF. There's a Dunphy interview about it in his archive - look it up if you're interested. Champagne Football attracted controversy and litigation. Giles deals with it in another Dunphy interview - you should check that out too.

If you find the viewpoint of probably our greatest footballer dated and flawed - don't tune in. There are myriad talking heads from the current era on ubitiquous football shows and podcasts spouting, shouting and spoofing. Keep a puke bowl nearby.

[Bungle]

I don't see Idah, Parrott, Molumby, Travers, Connolly, Manning, Knight, Browne, Byrne, Obafemi or Coventry having EPL careers. At best, like Hourihane - they're nearly but not quite. Yet these formed the Golden Generation on which, apparently, a new era would be built. It's now possible that within three years we'll be an EPL-free zone. Also worrying, given our current historic low, is that no half-decent granny-ruler would waste a second thought on becoming Irish. Rice, Grealish and even Bamford must be very relieved they dodged the green bullet.

I think Knight will be a very good premier league player in the coming years. I think Collins and O'Shea will be very decent premier league defenders in the coming years. I expect Kelleher and Bazunu to both reach a high level. Both are exceptionally talented for their age. Goalkeeping is a cruel business. I rate Alisson as arguably the best keeper in the world and for a number of weeks this season, he looked like a poor league 2 standard keeper. All keepers have their bad spells and it will be how those two can bounce back that will indicate how far they can go.

Parrott is the key for me. I have seen a lot of him and he was a world class 16 or 17 year old. Right now, he looks a reasonably talented 19 year old. Because of the hype and perhaps concerns about his friends, I would be concerned he won't be the great white hope that we thought he would be. He does look shy of confidence so maybe a goal or two and the love of a fanbase could kickstart it for him. With him, my feeling is he will either be a very good pl player or be playing at a very low level. I just don't see an inbetween with him. Fingers crossed he isn't this generation's Stokes.

Idah has the attributes to be a very good player. He is injured a lot which has put a stop to his gallop. He's at a good club though. My gut says he will be a high level championship striker for most of his career but he could have a spell where he gets into the premier league for a good period. Connolly hasn't really kicked on. His attitude is very poor off the pitch and he is a bit of a confidence player. If he knuckles down, he could be a bottom 6-8 pl striker averaging about 6-10 goals a season. That would mean he would be international class against most teams and would certainly be important for us. By all accounts, he's a gob****e so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Not sure what the craic is with Obafemi this season. I've seen glimpses of real talent but he is injured a lot and there seems to be question marks about his temperament at Southampton. He could drop down the divisions fast.

Manning looks like he might be a finge pl player but probably have a solid championship career for the most part. Nothing wrong with that I guess.

Travers is unlikely to have a career higher than league 1 in the long run imo. The others are mostly in his category.

[ontheotherhand]

Yes, and nothing I saw in the two games has really changed my mind of that.

The three rushes of blood - coming to the corner of the box against Luxembourg, and clobbering the Qatar guy outside the box and coming to the edge of the box to drop the ball - were all in the howler category for me. They could very easily have cost goals - that they didn't was nothing to do with him - and they were the sort of things that would put the jitters into your own defence (look at them later on calling him to claim a ball; that's very unusual and maybe indicates a lack of confidence in him, coupled with a welcome willingness to help him along). The two horrible passes out of defence - one in each game - are a lesser category of error. Stutts flagged a positioning error from a free against Luxembourg too. Maybe Dean Kiely as coach would note a smaller positioning error for both goals - which were similar in a way; low drives from 20 yards to the right - but certainly it would be harsh to blame him for either.

But the thing is, he's playing for Rochdale - they're a professional football team and as such it's a decent level. You have to have a lot of stuff right about you to be playing there - you have to have a base level of reflexes, etc. But there's a gap up to the top, and that's why I think with a keeper you have to highlight the rushes of blood, because it's what defines that gap. Arguably we were a bit lucky Qatar didn't threaten much after their equaliser or we may have seen more misjudgements.

Yes, he's 19 and is a big prospect. But there is no way you can conclude his performance from last night in particular was a plus. For me, it was a Kevin Kilbane in Iceland performance (and we know what happened him after that). And there's no harm in being rational about the performance and pointing that out. If it were an opposition keeper, we'd rightly be highlighting it.

Portugal away is six months away and he'll learn a lot between now and then. But I'd be terrified of him in nets for that game. The big goalkeeping pity of the last week is that we didn't get to see Kelleher in nets.

Again I think you went looking for what you wanted to see. As did I of course.

You bring up the fact that he is playing at Rochdale as if he is some 30 year old journeyman who has found his level - he's 19 and on loan from Man City for his development.

As for howlers, if a keeper coming to claim a high ball on the edge of his box, having the IQ to take his hands out right on the line and then calmly pass it off to a green shirt is a howler, I'll have more of the same. It was nervy maybe but not anywhere close to howler territory. Sure he got the ball. Howlers are balls slipping through the legs and dropped in the box.

His major error was the penalty shout/dive on the edge of the box around 6 minutes in. It was bad and he had no business being out there. I've absolutely no doubt that he isn't studying the tape back and learning from it. It's also worth noting that he made an absolutely world class save from the resulting set piece.

Overall his distribution ranged from pin point to risky but he was solid under the ball and made some comfortable saves. He also had all the long range efforts covered that any good keeper would. The one that got past would have been an unreal save had he kept it out.

If you're judging him as the potential finished article I could see your points but he's 19. Maybe you're only reacting to overly positive reports? He will learn every time he makes a mistake. I watched him as a 16 year old for Rovers. He kept Alan Mannus out of the team for critical games in the league and in Europe. You know all this I think. He's the most naturally talented and mentally focused player I've seen in the LoI at that age. Give him a bit of time. The whole team are learning how to play with a keeper who doesn't lump it long first time.

On the game itself a lot has been made in certain areas of it being a better performance because Kenny turned to the more senior players. I wouldn't agree. What we've been missing hasn't been the sort of play Hendrick brings, it was Horgan and arguably Christie who were giving us two things we missed - 1. an option on the right and 2. some degree of forward, creative link up play in the final third. We just don't have anyone to finish a chance. If only we had 3 or 4 decent young options up top as we seem to in nets.

[Razors left peg]

In the 3 games we created 21 chances, that includes shots on and off target. In Micks last game vs Denmark we created 18 chances. The recency bias is strong.

I didnt look at the stats, Im just going by my eye test. Under Mick it felt at times we were never going to create a chance let alone score. Under Kenny it feels like we are creating a ton of chances and not taking them.

[pineapple stu]

Again I think you went looking for what you wanted to see. As did I of course.
Nope. I'm just calling it as I see it.


You bring up the fact that he is playing at Rochdale as if he is some 30 year old journeyman who has found his level - he's 19 and on loan from Man City for his development.
I've repeatedly acknowledged that he's 19 and on loan for development. And right now, in that context, he's on loan at Rochdale and conceding two goals a game.


As for howlers, if a keeper coming to claim a high ball on the edge of his box, having the IQ to take his hands out right on the line and then calmly pass it off to a green shirt is a howler
I'll have to disagree on this one tbh (and with Stutts, and it's rare for me to disagree so much with a fellow keeper!). I don't think he could have been sure when committing to coming for the ball that dropping it was safe. I'm not entirely sure he didn't collide into his own player and lose control of the ball either. I don't think he should have come for it full stop. And coupled with the other rushes of blood - the foul early on, and the instance v Luxembourg - you can see how a pattern starts to emerge. For me, it's three instances in two games where for long spells we weren't under huge pressure.


The one that got past would have been an unreal save had he kept it out.
I don't think it would have been an unreal save. I think it would have been a very good save - but there's keepers there who'd have saved it. It was a good two feet inside the post for example. Was his starting point a step too much to the left? I don't know. I certainly don't blame him for the goal, but I don't think it would have been an unreal save had he kept it out.


If you're judging him as the potential finished article I could see your points but he's 19.
But this is the point. In the context of him playing international football right now, of course I'm judging his current ability. I know he's not the finished article, of course, but my point then becomes that I think he shouldn't be in the side until he's a stronger player. I've no doubt he'll become a stronger player, probably over the next 12 months. But right now, I think on balance, he's not ready.


I watched him as a 16 year old for Rovers.
It's interesting that his most vocal defenders seem to all be Rovers fans. I think there's a bit of a bias there to be honest. Which I can understand; I've the same bias for Conor Sammon in an Ireland jersey.