Club or Country? [Archive]

superfrank

11/06/2005, 2:02 PM

I have three allegiances: Eire, Chelsea and Bray.

So it's hard. I only recently got into the local team again so I amn't terribly devoted yet. I've supported Chelsea for a really long time, about eight years and it began cos at the time my dad lived in London. However, I'm Irish and from a fiercely patriotic family, I think my great-grandad was in the IRA, so naturally I'm a devout Eire fan. ;)

So Eire above all others.

Another reason I continue my support: Damien Duff has played for all three. ;)

Gerrit

11/06/2005, 2:40 PM

Club teams above country teams all the time. I just can't connect with country teams the way I can with clubs. Country teams have no fix players group, play only now and then, ... whereas clubs players usually stay a while (which helps to identify with them) and you have at least one game a week, which is easier to make friends of other supporters.

I do see country football in the same way as club football. As I said before, a country team is IMO no representation to a country. It's the representation of a sports federation with offices in a certain country. I never saw the Belgian team as representing my country, it's just a team consisting of 11 lads from Belgium - go in the average Brussels pub and pick 11 men who never kicked a ball before, they can also go on a field with the banner "Belgium". So for me a national team does not really represent an entire nation, I see them more or less as teams just like club teams. With the difference that a club is playing weekly, that I have friends at my prefered clubs, and that the players selected will be more or less constant.

So definitely club football all the way. I do support Norway in national team football, but never with the same passion as when I support Shelbourne, Rosenborg or Ostend (my prefered clubs).

tonycuna

11/06/2005, 2:53 PM

Club teams above country teams all the time. I just can't connect with country teams the way I can with clubs. Country teams have no fix players group, play only now and then, ... whereas clubs players usually stay a while (which helps to identify with them) and you have at least one game a week, which is easier to make friends of other supporters.

I'm agree with this point of view.
But I think that there's the patriotic feeling that makes me put Ireland above Arsenal.
Yes, you're right. I became an Arsenal fan thanks to Tony Adams presence. And that team, with him, especially that from 97/98 winning title' campaign, is the one I love much.
But when Ireland plays, there are some things like national anthem, home matches and away matches (that are more significant as "home" and "away", than clubs matches), and so on, that are much more emotional.
So, for me, it's Ireland first, and Arsenal second :p :)

Dodge

11/06/2005, 3:00 PM

club. Never depressed about Ireland losing. Think this coould be another one thats split between el fans and fans of UK teams.

Gerrit

11/06/2005, 3:06 PM

Well, yeah, but two remarks:

- the Irish national side is just one team from Ireland just like Dublin City or Galway Hibs are... Put the 11 players of Swords Celtic on that field and play the Soldiers Song, they could as well use the banner Ireland

- if you'be supporting fanatically an EL side it may be different. You can't go to all Arsenal games because of the distance, therefor it's more difficult to get to know your fellow fans and make close friendships with them. With an EL team you could, and once you're that far the fellow fans are also friends of yours that you see every weekend, it's becoming a social event then and not just a sports game. This is something that is impossible with national teams because they only play once every two months or so...

I find it very hard to identify with national sides. I do support Norway, but it's just not the same feeling as with the clubs. The one week familiar faces like Carew, Rushfeldt and Strand could be in the team, and then two months later it could be a completely different team. Very hard to identify with... You don't have such a rotation and staff changes with club sides, the list of players will remain more or less unchanged for at least a whole season.

KR's Post

11/06/2005, 3:47 PM

Another reason I continue my support: Damien Duff has played for all three. ;)
He hasn't played for Bray!!! Feel the same for all my teams when they Win, Lose or Draw!!!!

Green Tribe

11/06/2005, 3:58 PM

I don't have a club...(awaiting the abuse :rolleyes: ) so it's only Ireland for me :D

De Town

11/06/2005, 4:14 PM

I don't have a club...(awaiting the abuse :rolleyes: )
You should try and pick one (in Ireland) and stick with them because I would imagine its terrible having to wait a couple of months at a time for a match to come around :o

Orchard Celt

11/06/2005, 4:23 PM

It would have to be club I think. I follow Celtic and just like every other club fan I check teletext 100 times a day too see of any news on my club (please tell me I'am not the only one ;) :D ). Club football is contiunes though out the year while International games pop up every few months. I do check out too see how other Irish players are getting on in England, Scotland etc.. but I'd only really start thinking of the next Ireland game once there's an International break but like my club when I watch Ireland I'am kicking every ball and screaming at every tackle, when Ireland lose or draw I get dissappointed and when we win I'am over the moon.

I don't think of it as a club or country row. Once any of them are playing they get my full support and I'am always proud of who we are, win, lose or draw :D :D

OwlsFan

11/06/2005, 4:24 PM

As I said elsewhere, those who put club before country will understand Ferguson putting his club before Ireland and even the players putting their club before their country.

It is this attitude that will kill international football. Any of the money in the form of grants which the FAI puts into the EL comes from international gate receipts. There is no money in the EL.

I'd always put my country before any club or institution. I don't think there is any greater feeling (in sporting terms) than standing in a foreign stadiums with thousands of your compatriots signing your national anthem. Brilliant....

Green Tribe

11/06/2005, 4:36 PM

You should try and pick one (in Ireland) and stick with them because I would imagine its terrible having to wait a couple of months at a time for a match to come around :o

Where I'm from the nearest EL/IL club etc is quite far, the closest would be Monaghan or Omagh Town, and it would feel strange supporting them, I don't know , it's hard to explain.

4tothefloor

11/06/2005, 6:00 PM

As I said before, a country team is IMO no representation to a country. It's the representation of a sports federation with offices in a certain country. I never saw the Belgian team as representing my country, it's just a team consisting of 11 lads from Belgium - go in the average Brussels pub and pick 11 men who never kicked a ball before, they can also go on a field with the banner "Belgium". So for me a national team does not really represent an entire nation, I see them more or less as teams just like club teams. With the difference that a club is playing weekly, that I have friends at my prefered clubs, and that the players selected will be more or less constant.
:rolleyes:

I support Limerick FC, Liverpool and Ireland. I actively support all three, i.e. I go to the home games, all of Limerick's and Ireland's, and as much as I can of Liverpool's. With the new Ryanair Shannon to Liverpool route that was just launched, I hope to go to Anfield once a month from next season on. I am passionate about all three and refuse to put one over the other.

jorge

11/06/2005, 6:19 PM

I support rovers,ac milan i would put rovers over ireland simply because the FAI is run by ............. and is supported mostly by eh .............

M@ttitude

11/06/2005, 8:09 PM

Country all the way, being a liverpool fan I would still rather Ireland beating france and switzerland than pool winning the cl again next season and the year after.. I cant believe most of you picking your clubs, so you would swop a summer of celebration and partys on the worlds stage for a fist in the air and few pints in your town that only a small percentage of IRELAND will even take notice of! Geeks...

Green Tribe

11/06/2005, 8:47 PM

so you would swop a summer of celebration and partys on the worlds stage for a fist in the air and few pints in your town that only a small percentage of IRELAND will even take notice of! Geeks...

:D well said! :ball:

M@ttitude

11/06/2005, 9:12 PM

Why thank you green lady... ;)

Green Tribe

11/06/2005, 9:49 PM

Why thank you green lady... ;)

You're very welcome! :D

monutdfc

11/06/2005, 10:46 PM

Where I'm from the nearest EL/IL club etc is quite far, the closest would be Monaghan or Omagh Town, and it would feel strange supporting them, I don't know , it's hard to explain.
Well KT, Omagh Town have (unfortunately) folded, so you can support us. We already have several fans from Co Fermanagh, most notably James and Denise from Lisnaskea who never miss a game, home or away.

monutdfc

11/06/2005, 10:58 PM

I don't think of it as a club or country row. Once any of them are playing they get my full support and I'am always proud of who we are, win, lose or draw :D :D
I'd agree with this. There is no conflict. You don't have to choose. You don't have to declare a preference, you don't have to choose one and damn the other.

When this question was posed before I had no hesitation in choosing Club. Last weekend, the question was posed to me again: we played Kildare County on the Friday night before Ireland played Israel. Now I know what I think has no bearing whatsoever over the result, but I asked myself if I had to choose between United winning or Ireland winning which would I choose? I probably veered towards Ireland (on the basis that even if we beat Kildare we would end up mid-table anyway - if it was a choice between United ever actually winning something or Ireland qualifiying it would be United all the way (I feel selfish about that - my extreme pleasure versus the pleasure that would be experienced by a much greater amount of people - but on that basis I'd want China to win ever international cometition going!). But after Friday night when we beat Kildare I was on such a high that suddenly my answer had changed to Club; supporting a club, especially an eL club where you can be really involved means that a win means so much more to you. But, and it's a big but, I fully understand anyone who answers Country (my brother would for one). The guy who owns the Monaghan Boys on Tour flag rarely misses a United game, but I know what his answer would be (Country) and I fully understand why. Davy Keogh says hello is a bohs fan and secretary of a junior club I believe, and I would guess he would answer country (apologies to Davy if I have got this wrong). But my over-riding comment to the whole subject is, as OrchardCelt says, you don;t have to choose.

liam88

11/06/2005, 10:59 PM

I'm with Tony, Kt, M@ttitude and the rest of the country crew!!
Can't believe people would put one club above our COUNTRY!
Course I'm proud of both my clubs but Ireland always come's first!

Green Tribe

11/06/2005, 11:26 PM

Well KT, Omagh Town have (unfortunately) folded, so you can support us. We already have several fans from Co Fermanagh, most notably James and Denise from Lisnaskea who never miss a game, home or away.

Yeah, I just found that out about Omagh Town just after I posted! :D :eek: Looks like Monaghan Utd is my only option! I'll think about it... :D

Stevo Da Gull

11/06/2005, 11:37 PM

Another reason I continue my support: Damien Duff has played for all three.
I heard that he was once on our books for a short time :confused: but he defo never played for us.

Anyhow back to the main, Bray come 1st and Éireann 2nd. Just feel more strongly about Bray but at the same time I think Irelands qualifacation for big tournaments (mainly World Cup) brings money into the FAI and a small percentage of this see's (i think :confused: ) its way into EL football, so I'm still really desperate for us to qualify (as well as the obvious reasons for wanting Éire to do well).

List of priorities:

1. Bray Wanderers
2. Family/Friends
3. ........... :D ;) :ball:

Plastic Paddy

12/06/2005, 8:13 AM

Bang on monutdfc, KT and M@ttitude. The two are mutually exclusive. I know plenty of Irish Tims that won't support Ireland because they see the 26-county team as some sort of endorsement of partition. Pathetic. Just like those who say they don't support Ireland because those who run the FAI are a joke. That's like renouncing your citizenship just because you don't like Bertie Ahern. :rolleyes:

I gain just as much from seeing Celtic win as I do Ireland. That the two will never meet in competitive football means that there are two distinct paradigms in which I can follow a team; international and club competition. So, supporting my club and my country means I get the best of both worlds. Apart from when they throw away leads against the likes of Motherwell and Israel, that is... :o

:ball: PP

CollegeTillIDie

12/06/2005, 8:28 AM

I have always wanted the national team to succeed even before I had a club team to support in the EL.
I have travelled to Germany ( Euro 88) Russia ( that godawful 2-4 defeat under Mick McCarthy) and Poland to watch the team play. I used to go to the home games before they became all seater now I only get to the odd game.

I never miss a home game for my club team and at one point I attended every game home and away. In one two season stretch I missed 1 League game out of 60. Now with Friday away games outside of Dublin it would necessitate taking time off work and quite frankly I have insufficient Annual Leave to sustain it.

One thing which a lot of fans of EL football and Premiershi* do not encounter is what those of us involved with clubs in Amateur football which have International representative teams sometimes experience.
Our club players get called into an international squad then they are " persuaded" either by team mates or by members of the international management squad to move club in order to further their international careers.

That makes it difficult to put the national team before the club in that context. In spite of that fact I do support the national teams concerned.
Come on the Boys in Green. Come on The Girls in Green :D

Cosmo

12/06/2005, 11:00 AM

Club without a doubt, don't even have to think about it

tonycuna

12/06/2005, 11:44 AM

I'm agree with this point of view.
...
Yes, you're right. I became an Arsenal fan thanks to Tony Adams presence. And that team, with him, especially that from 97/98 winning title' campaign, is the one I love much.

I quote myself :p cause I want to add that, yes, maybe, the 22-men of a nat team are very different around the years. But it's an obvious thing, and everyone knows that it is. A country 22-men has always differences, much more than the clubs one, and it can't be a reason to put club above country. I reckon myself and my Irish passion with players like Roy, Robbie or Kilbane at the moment, and you can't argue, they are in green for a long time until now. And in the past I felt represented by lads like Niall Quinn, Stevie Staunton, Gary Kelly, McAteer, the same Ian Harte that comes back now.

But I can understand, even if I'm not agree with them :) , with who says reasons about the frequency of matches and so on

In the end, you can put club above country, I can put country above club. But every of us during the season will suffer for their clubs. And every of us, in evening like last wed or sat, will be there, @stadiums, on tv or radio, to suffer for our national team ;)

Bye lads :)

ColinR

12/06/2005, 1:20 PM

country every time.

with club, a bad defeat will annoy me for a few hours, the next day i'm fine, a win the next week and all is rosy.

one week on, and israel is still ****ing me off, and probably will right through to sepetember :(

superfrank

12/06/2005, 1:23 PM

He hasn't played for Bray!!! Feel the same for all my teams when they Win, Lose or Draw!!!!

I heard that he was once on our books for a short time :confused: but he defo never played for us.
I know he never played but he was at the club at one stage.

CollegeTillIDie

12/06/2005, 3:27 PM

Yeah, I just found that out about Omagh Town just after I posted! :D :eek: Looks like Monaghan Utd is my only option! I'll think about it... :D
If I may quote a housekeeper from a repeated comedy series:
" Ah go on go on go on go on go on go on " do it KT the mighty MONS need you :D

Gerrit

12/06/2005, 6:02 PM

I'd always put my country before any club or institution.

While the national team justs represents an institution: the FAI.

I cannot understand how so many people see 11 people as representing a whole country. I don't say it's wrong, but I just don't get it. 11 lads, not even chosen democratically (but chosen by one person) is how many % of the nation ?

I admire in some way your national pride and maybe I miss out something because I don't have it. But I don't understand, with the best will of the world. If the Belgian flag and anthem are waved/played at a football game, that doesn't mean that these 11 players (11 out of a population of over 10.000.000) represent the country. Therefor, in combination with the low frequence of games, I don't care too much about country football. Doesn't move me really, and I will rarely stay home to watch games on TV, while for my club (both Shelbourne as back at home Ostend) I have several times taken days off.

superfrank

12/06/2005, 8:54 PM

I cannot understand how so many people see 11 people as representing a whole country. I don't say it's wrong, but I just don't get it. 11 lads, not even chosen democratically (but chosen by one person) is how many % of the nation ?
Maybe it's different for bigger countries. As for Ireland it's like 0.000275%. Obviouly in other countries it's a lower percentage. In a way, it's like a Taoiseach picking his ministers. One person picking a limited few to represent the entire nation, that sorta thing. :cool:

Don't worry, I'm not going to bring politics into this....

Green Tribe

12/06/2005, 9:38 PM

If I may quote a housekeeper from a repeated comedy series:
" Ah go on go on go on go on go on go on " do it KT the mighty MONS need you :D

I think they do need the support :D

FarBeag

12/06/2005, 11:04 PM

I love football and if given the chance would watch it 24/7 no matter what team are playing and what country they are playing in.I have gone to a few premership matches as i live in uk for the last decade and am sure if i was living in Ireland i would go to a few el matches. Saying all this i don't have any real affection for any club apart from Celtic who i have a soft spot for but i have and will continue to follow Ireland all over the world win lose or draw.

Macy

13/06/2005, 7:02 AM

Club before country. Not even a question.

magic moments

13/06/2005, 12:24 PM

tiktok

13/06/2005, 12:41 PM

I cant believe most of you picking your clubs, so you would swop a summer of celebration and partys on the worlds stage for a fist in the air and few pints in your town that only a small percentage of IRELAND will even take notice of! Geeks...

Geeks? :rolleyes:
As I pointed out in another thread, the above is typical of the 'event junkie' we have following the national team.

I don't see the two as being in competition with each other for my affections, but if games were to clash I wouldn't be in Landsdowne and if asked the question would I prefer to see Cork City win the league and go into the CL next season or Ireland to qualify for the World Cup?
The former, hands down (though obviously I want the latter too).

M@ttitude

13/06/2005, 3:22 PM

tiktok

13/06/2005, 3:37 PM

Event junkie? I have been to every home match (friendlies included) since i was six and have travelled a bit but only because finacially I couldnt afford it, I think thats the difference between EL fans and English club fans, the EL fans hate the rest of the country (typical cork attitude) while English club fans support there clubs on TV but support anything Irish 100%... geek

Event Junkie?
"so you would swop a summer of celebration and partys on the worlds stage" Those are your words, not mine.
You place more importance on parties and celebration than "a fist in the air and few pints in your town that only a small percentage of IRELAND will even take notice of". I don't.

As for 'typical cork attitude', I'm not from the county.

I don't hate the rest of the country, but I find attitudes like yours insulting. Just because you don't 'get' LOI football doesn't mean that you have the right to p!ss all over something that thousands of you're countrymen and countrywomen are passionate about.

And for the record the EL is 100% irish, but I don't see you supporting that :rolleyes:

Geek -v- Event Junkie
Bring it on :p

OwlsFan

13/06/2005, 3:46 PM

While the national team justs represents an institution: the FAI.

I cannot understand how so many people see 11 people as representing a whole country. I don't say it's wrong, but I just don't get it. 11 lads, not even chosen democratically (but chosen by one person) is how many % of the nation ?

I admire in some way your national pride and maybe I miss out something because I don't have it. But I don't understand, with the best will of the world. If the Belgian flag and anthem are waved/played at a football game, that doesn't mean that these 11 players (11 out of a population of over 10.000.000) represent the country. Therefor, in combination with the low frequence of games, I don't care too much about country football. Doesn't move me really, and I will rarely stay home to watch games on TV, while for my club (both Shelbourne as back at home Ostend) I have several times taken days off.

No, the team is run by an institution but represents the country. Alas, other than the nation voting on who it wants to represent it, there isn't any alternative I'm afraid. Maybe we should have a Eurostar type competition to see who should play for Ireland :D

M@ttitude

13/06/2005, 3:55 PM

Event Junkie?
"so you would swop a summer of celebration and partys on the worlds stage" Those are your words, not mine.
You place more importance on parties and celebration than "a fist in the air and few pints in your town that only a small percentage of IRELAND will even take notice of". I don't.

As for 'typical cork attitude', I'm not from the county.

I don't hate the rest of the country, but I find attitudes like yours insulting. Just because you don't 'get' LOI football doesn't mean that you have the right to p!ss all over something that thousands of you're countrymen and countrywomen are passionate about.

And for the record the EL is 100% irish, but I don't see you supporting that :rolleyes:

Geek -v- Event Junkie
Bring it on :p

I dont support any particular LOI teams but I do go to my nearest stadium Dalymount park every other Friday night so I do "get it" and enjoy it.. But first and foremost I am proud to be Irish and I would rather the world take note of our small powerful country, rather than a thousand people in Ireland..

Just because you dont 'like' partys and events doesn't give YOU the right to p!ss all something that MILLIONS of your countrymen and women in every corner of the globe are passionate about.

Wherever your from i do hope you and your friends enjoy Cork winning something, you'll still have to go to work and explain to your boss that the reason you have a hangover is because cork won the cup and no they're a soccer team boss not GAA... If Ireland won the world cup your boss wouldnt even be in work! (no dis respect to what u believe in and are passionate about, i just support Ireland #1)

Event 1 geek 0 :cool:

Drumcondra Red

13/06/2005, 4:18 PM

I dont support any particular LOI teams but I do go to my nearest stadium Dalymount park every other Friday night so I do "get it" and enjoy it.. But first and foremost I am proud to be Irish and I would rather the world take note of our small powerful country, rather than a thousand people in Ireland..

Just because you dont 'like' partys and events doesn't give YOU the right to p!ss all something that MILLIONS of your countrymen and women in every corner of the globe are passionate about.

Wherever your from i do hope you and your friends enjoy Cork winning something, you'll still have to go to work and explain to your boss that the reason you have a hangover is because cork won the cup and no they're a soccer team boss not GAA... If Ireland won the world cup your boss wouldnt even be in work! (no dis respect to what u believe in and are passionate about, i just support Ireland #1)

Event 1 geek 0 :cool:

Do you use the DCFC crest because you like the lok of it then??? If you're going anyway, would you not consider yourself a Boez fan???

And Gerrit, with your comments on International Country teams, you are in serious trouble of talking shíte!!!

M@ttitude

13/06/2005, 4:52 PM

Do you use the DCFC crest because you like the lok of it then???
Yes.

If you're going anyway, would you not consider yourself a Boez fan???
Well when im there i sit in the home section and would rather see them win but since i was young i supported a few different loi teams as my uncle managed a few and he gave us tickets, not telling who he is though, ha ha...

dancinpants

13/06/2005, 5:16 PM

Club - everytime, Derry City winning the Premier Division Championship before Ireland winning the World Cup. As someone said there is a slight EL/Premiersh!t split appearing here. Would it be fair to say thats because the majority Premiersh!t fans in this country have absolutely no connection whatsoever with the teams they support in England?...therefore making it easier to choose country over club?

tiktok

13/06/2005, 8:25 PM

Just because you dont 'like' partys and events doesn't give YOU the right to p!ss all something that MILLIONS of your countrymen
That's the thing you see, I didn't. I said I didn't see the club -v- country as competing for my attention, but if pushed to choose it would be club. You're the one who decided to tear down one option just to push your preference, that's what i objected to, and it's all the sadder that someone who regularly attends EL games is so ready to abuse it. :rolleyes:

Wherever your from i do hope you and your friends enjoy Cork winning something, you'll still have to go to work and explain to your boss that the reason you have a hangover is because cork won the cup and no they're a soccer team boss not GAA... If Ireland won the world cup your boss wouldnt even be in work!
Yeah, I know, because my boss is an event junkie ffs :rolleyes:

(no dis respect to what u believe in and are passionate about, i just support Ireland #1)
You put Ireland first, I've no problem with that, i understand where you're coming from, but there's no need to tear down the LOI, which whether intended or not p1ssed me off

Event 1 geek 0 :cool:
Woo-Hoo, let's have a huge free 'event' in The Phoenix Park :p :D

M@ttitude

13/06/2005, 9:07 PM

Woo-Hoo, let's have a huge free 'event' in The Phoenix Park :p :D
No lets have a quite pint in bettys bar in bally'go'backwards... :p

TheOwl

13/06/2005, 11:49 PM

I don't think there is any greater feeling (in sporting terms) than standing in a foreign stadiums with thousands of your compatriots signing your national anthem. Brilliant....

But you can do this when supporting an EL club away in Europe too!

Shels represent Ireland to me but are even closer to home. It's just like if five boxers represent Ireland in the Olympics I'd support all five, but if one was from Dublin, then I'd support him a little bit more than the other four.

razor

14/06/2005, 9:09 AM

Shels represent Ireland to me but are even closer to home. It's just like if five boxers represent Ireland in the Olympics I'd support all five, but if one was from Dublin, then I'd support him a little bit more than the other four.Thats an excellent explanation, I think for the most part those that support a British club team tend to put Ireland first and those that support an Irish club team put their club first, because the club represent their community within Ireland.

ColinR

14/06/2005, 9:17 AM

Thats an excellent explanation, I think for the most part those that support a British club team tend to put Ireland first and those that support an Irish club team put their club first, because the club represent their community within Ireland.

the problem is that the club's no longer represent the community, just the fans do. i've only seen one drogs match this season and would barely recodnise half our current squad. with none of the players being from the town, its difficult to say they represent the community.

the irish players, in the main are irish, even those who people complain about (holland, morrison etc.) have ties to ireland.