Faroe Islands and other minnows

[gaf1983]

Is there any real point in footballing minnows such as the Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra, Scotland, Kazakhstan, Malta and Luxembourg competing with the stronger nations in the qualifiers? Their only function is to serve as cannon fodder for the better teams. FIFA themselves even recognise this in their rules about goal difference - when ranking teams on equal points, the goal difference built up in the matches agains the weakest teams in the group is discounted. All the small teams can hope for is to take a few scalps off the bigger teams, such as Liechtenstein's nil-all victory against us a few years ago, or the Faroes' draw against the Scots, or else to take points off smaller teams. As a result, when they play the bigger teams, they invariably put about 10 men behind the ball - nothing wrong with that, their managers are free to choose whatever tactics they please, negative or positive, but it just shows that they go into matches without much hope of winning in the first place.

What I propose is that FIFA set up a two-tier qualifying competition, where the countries that habitually end up as whipping-boys play each other. Then allow the top two teams out of this section qualify for the main qualifiers with all the other teams. At least it would give the small teams a better chance of building up a string of good results, with the incentive being that they would get to play against the top teams in Europe. It must be demoralising for both the players and fans of these teams at the moment to know that they never have a chance of qualifying for the major tournaments - in this system at least they wouldn't have to got week in week out getting trounced.

[gustavo]

Scotland
.
touche!

[drummerboy]

Not so long ago you could have included the Republic of Ireland in that little lot. I know Scotland are having a bad time of it lately but you are taking the ****, aren't you.

[Stuttgart88]

FIFA themselves even recognise this in their rules about goal difference - when ranking teams on equal points, the goal difference built up in the matches agains the weakest teams in the group is discounted.

I don't think that's true. The rules for the current qualifying rounds state GD against ALL teams counts.

Good point about the minnows though. I'd like to see a separate B World Cup & European Championships. Give these guys something to aim for & have some way of being promoted to the main group.

[gaf1983]

yeah I was taking the pi$$ when I included Scotland in the list, but my basic point is that the teams that consistently finish bottom of the qualifiers should play in a second tier competition, and if they're good enough to win that, they should be allowed compete with the stronger teams.

[Colie]

Was chatting to the Faroes fans & they loved the craic of all the foreigners coming over. The women get fresh meat in for a couple of days & all the locals get to see world superstars play like Keane & Henry. There's no way it's disheartening for the fans, I reckon they're over the moon to have these games. Now as for the team, yeah, I guess it hurts.

[colster]

I think it's a good thing. I think it fosters the game in these countries.
Take the Faroes for example when would they ever get the chance to play against the likes of France if it were not in a competitive match. Do you think they could afford to play France or other top nations in friendlies.

[Islander]

Is there any real point in footballing minnows such as the Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra, Scotland, Kazakhstan, Malta and Luxembourg competing with the stronger nations in the qualifiers? Their only function is to serve as cannon fodder for the better teams. FIFA themselves even recognise this in their rules about goal difference - when ranking teams on equal points, the goal difference built up in the matches agains the weakest teams in the group is discounted.
Scotland?? :rolleyes:


All the small teams can hope for is to take a few scalps off the bigger teams, such as Liechtenstein's nil-all victory against us a few years ago, or the Faroes' draw against the Scots, or else to take points off smaller teams. As a result, when they play the bigger teams, they invariably put about 10 men behind the ball - nothing wrong with that, their managers are free to choose whatever tactics they please, negative or positive, but it just shows that they go into matches without much hope of winning in the first place.
I don't think that we saw a Faroese team with 10 men behind the ball through out the match on Wedensday. As I understand from most managers from the "big" taems is that the Faroes, in contrary to other minnows, really put their hearth in the game, and are moving the ball forwards. I really understand your point, but I'd rather watch 100 Faroes vs Ireland matches, than one single between Italy and Germany. You saw the match.. it was men against men, not spoiled primadonnas with highly insured legs to worry about! :D



What I propose is that FIFA set up a two-tier qualifying competition, where the countries that habitually end up as whipping-boys play each other. Then allow the top two teams out of this section qualify for the main qualifiers with all the other teams. At least it would give the small teams a better chance of building up a string of good results, with the incentive being that they would get to play against the top teams in Europe. It must be demoralising for both the players and fans of these teams at the moment to know that they never have a chance of qualifying for the major tournaments - in this system at least they wouldn't have to got week in week out getting trounced.
All put aside, I like this thought, and it isn't new really. Mostly because I'm quite sure that the Faroes probably would end top-two. :cool:
The down-side of this proposel is, that you probably would be forced into dividing the teams into A, B and C, just as handball was preveously. But they left that system, and are now using the one FIFA and UEFA are using now.

[eirebhoy]

I agree 100% with the opening post.

Lets say for WC 2006 the following could have happened. The top 39 countries (40 minus hosts Germany) in the seedings should get automatic entry into the main qualifiers. The other 12 countries:
Armenia
Cyprus
Moldova
Northern Ireland
Azerbaijan
Liechtenstein
Andorra
Faroe Islands
Malta
Kazakhstan
Luxembourg
San Marino

Should be be drawn together. 12 makes 6, 6 makes 3. Thats 2 ties for a country, max.

Those 3 countries join the other 39 (=42) and you then make groups.

Thats just an example, change the numbers around to whatever way you like.

The pre-qualifying matches could be played whenever the WC or EC is taking place.

[Stuttgart88]

Islander, what about competing in a group where you'd have a realistic chance of scoring points and having something positive to aim for?

[Islander]

Islander, what about competing in a group where you'd have a realistic chance of scoring points and having something positive to aim for?
I can't really take a defenite side on this matter, there are good arguments for both options. However, I would really miss the opportunity to see quality teams visiting Tórsvøllur. On the other hand, it would very tempting to be in a pre-qualifying group with a perhaps favorite-status.

The option with pre-qualifying groups would satisfy the the bigger teams, whilst the present system indeed satisfies the smaller ones (and those who like whole-hearted team-effort, regardless the opposition)

[Gerrit]

The whole idea is disgusting. The day FIFA does this, it's the one thing to much. Then I give up on watching professional football and turn into amateur level 100%. The idea is sickening.

EVERY team, no matter how good or bad, has the right to enter and compete. Certainly in country football, where the principle "every country has the right to participate" counts. There should be no classes at all according to level, putting smaller nations into a semi-qualification group is simply wrong IMO. It's this attitude that makes me support against big teams in general. If they feel too good to play Andorra or look down on them, they are the ones who are small nations, not Andorra. My opinion: if a country feels too good for a minnow, they should just not play and take the consequences of a forfait defeat. In fact, countries having the arrogance like Australia not wanting to play Fiji and Tonga anymore betray the true football spirit and bring it down to a game where only results and the survival of the fittest matter. They deserve no respect at all and in fact it's time FIFA starts punishing countries trying to outkick others based on general performances. If they're really too good, they have to prove it on the field, we should NOT give in to arrogant overpaid stars who feel so superior towards their amateur counterparts.

Think my view on this is clear: NO NO NO. I have huge sympathies for the likes of Luxembourg, Faroes, Malta, ... These countries play football with the heart and for the love of the game, even having to invest money and rare holidays themselves to be able to play. Their motivation and enthusiasm to play again and again despite the losses, that is the true spirit of football. The way some bigger/better teams look at these lads is an insult towards the whole basic idea of sports.

I am getting quite irritated and disgusted the last years with the way football is evoluating. UEFA disadvantages the champions of smaller nations in favor of the nr 4 of Spain or Italy, in several countries cup tournaments have special set-ups to protect the big teams, Australia can just walk out of its own continent because they're too vein to play Vanuatu and Papua New Guinea, ... It all seems normal to give in to this and forget the basics of sports. I have not lost love for football yet, but it has a few times come very close to it. If we now go put the minors in pre-qualifiers, that's the final drop for me. Then I will just forget about the big football out there and be one of those few 'freaks' seeing Leinster Senior games only, refusing to any longer pay attention to the arrogant stars of the game...

[hamish]

I cannot see that happening, Gerrit. If the big clubs/countries cut loose then football will just shrivel up/implode. Where, then, will the big guns get their players from so called minnows.

In a strange way, the powerful countries/clubs need the so called minnows as much as the latter need the big guns.

Keep the faith.

[livehead1]

Was chatting to the Faroes fans & they loved the craic of all the foreigners coming over. The women get fresh meat in for a couple of days & all the locals get to see world superstars play like Keane & Henry. There's no way it's disheartening for the fans, I reckon they're over the moon to have these games. Now as for the team, yeah, I guess it hurts.


no way!!!!!!! look at the faroes...ya man was a plumber by day and a footballer by night. he must know himself hes no world beater so to find himself fixing a sink at 10am and lining out representing his country against damien duff that evening must be amazing...disheartening me ars* :P i'd love it

[eirebhoy]

Gerrit, You do know this already goes on? But your still watching football. :eek: ;)

The following teams had to enter Stage 1 of the Asia qualifiers:
Bangladesh
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Afghanistan
Chinese Taipei
Macao
Pakistan
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Sri Lanka
Mongolia
Maldives
Guam
Nepal

Its a cup system on a home and away basis and half of them go through to stage 2.

In the North American Zone its the same system as above with the following teams:

Bermuda
Montserrat
Aruba
Surinam
Grenada
Guyana
Cayman Islands
Cuba
British Virgin Islands
St. Lucia
Turks and Caicos Islands
Haiti
US Virgin Islands
St. Kitts and Nevis
Antigua and Barbuda
Netherlands Antilles
Bahamas
Dominica
Anguilla
Dominican Republic

In the Oceanic zone Australia and New Zealand are automatically put through into stage 2.

[Gerrit]

OK, let me get my comments straight: the day it is happening IN EUROPE I drop out.

Touche mate, forgot about that. Maldives even beat Mongolia 13-0 by the way, says it all about Mongolia :eek: (still highly sympathise with the team from this fascinating nomadic country though)

But growing up in Europe and as being a proud European, I have much more affection with Luxembourg, Faroe Islands and San Marino than with Antigua, Guam, Montserrat or Afghanistan (would still chose their side when playing a bigger team though)
If UEFA makes yet another move to satisfy the rich and the famous, then I turn to amateur football only, away from the disgusting game where money is too deeply involved and overrules ethics of the sport.

[Curtains]

If you let the minnows all play in the same group with something to aim for, initially that is good. But then these crap teams are going to be at the major competitions meaning it will downgrade them. Surely only the elite should be in these competitions. Imagine this. World Cup Group 1 = Brazil, Germany, Nigeria and ANDORRA. No that is not for me.

[Slash/ED]

OK, let me get my comments straight: the day it is happening IN EUROPE I drop out.


It's happening in Europe at club level :)

I'd disagree with this in principel, but seing the Faroes take off their main striker when 2-0 down and their goalkeeper wasteing time when 2-0 down and settling for that result, if that's the height of their ambitions they'res something wrong imo. But at the same time, they have the right to compete and it's not fair putting them in a pre qualifyer.

[Gerrit]

If there's a WC group with Brazil, Germany, Nigeria and Andorra, I will support Andorra. The little teams are the true footballers: they play with the heart, not with the ideas on a bank account. And I hate the Brazilian football anyway so definitely I go for Andorra, would be extremely cool if they'd beat those Brazilian ego's :cool:

[Qwerty]

I agree 100% with the opening post.

Lets say for WC 2006 the following could have happened. The top 39 countries (40 minus hosts Germany) in the seedings should get automatic entry into the main qualifiers. The other 12 countries:
Armenia
Cyprus
Moldova
Northern Ireland
Azerbaijan
Liechtenstein
Andorra
Faroe Islands
Malta
Kazakhstan
Luxembourg
San Marino

Should be be drawn together. 12 makes 6, 6 makes 3. Thats 2 ties for a country, max.

Those 3 countries join the other 39 (=42) and you then make groups.

Thats just an example, change the numbers around to whatever way you like.

The pre-qualifying matches could be played whenever the WC or EC is taking place.


Come on yah gotta luv the banana skin factor!

In fairness Cyprus beat Spain more recently that we have 3-2 in the Euro2000 qualifier- the final table with Cyprus 1 point behind Israel & Austria

Team P W D L F A Dif Pts
Spain 8 7 0 1 42 5 +37 21
Israel 8 4 1 3 25 9 +16 13
Austria 8 4 1 3 19 20 -1 13
Cyprus 8 4 0 3 12 21 -9 12
San Marino 8 0 0 8 1 44 -43 0


Sure Cyprus will lose to Spain 49 times outta 50 but - it's worth having them there just for that 1 win. Don't be so elitist - you sound like the cronies in the G14 who want the group stages in Cup competitions to reduce the chance of the big boys not getting through. Where is the romance gone?

[Gerrit]

Without that romance football cannot survive. Even the most fanatic fan of technically brilliant games gets tired of seeing the same old clubs over and over again. If Real Madrid and Juventus play each other yet again, I have a too big deja-vu feeling to even bother to watch the game, I much rather see Alania Vladikavkaz play Afon Lido then.

You can complain all you want about the Faroe Islands-like teams of this world, but when such a minor beats a giant (even if it only happens once a season) the whole world (except for the opponent's fans) love it. It's those things that make football exciting.
Remember the qualifiers for Euro 1996... Luxembourg got 10 points, never happened before to them. They even beat Czech 1-0, the same Czech Republic that would later become vice-champions of Europe ! That goal that gave Luxembourg that historic win was shown on TV all around the world, everyone had the greatest respect for what tiny Luxembourg had realised.

Everyone feels somehow attracted to underdogs, unless it's against the own club. If Shels would lose tomorrow to Wicklow Rovers, the lads in Cork would have the laugh of a lifetime, and vice-versa. Luckily we still have these tiny ones that can cause sensation now and then.

And the European glory of Denmark (1992) and Greece (2004) were probably the biggest thrills many football fans experienced in a whole decade. No one gave Greece a chance to survive the first round, they never won a game on a tournament before. And suddenly, out of nothing, David beats all Goliaths of Europe and out of nothing wins its first trophy and the hearts of many neutral soccer fans.

The big ones need the little ones just as well.

[Islander]

It's happening in Europe at club level :)

I'd disagree with this in principel, but seing the Faroes take off their main striker when 2-0 down and their goalkeeper wasteing time when 2-0 down and settling for that result, if that's the height of their ambitions they'res something wrong imo. But at the same time, they have the right to compete and it's not fair putting them in a pre qualifyer.

That is nonsense, mate! :cool:
Andrew av Fløtum was substuted for Christian Høgni Jacobsen, who is a faster striker and a bit more of a targetplayer.
Fródi Benjaminsen was subsistuted for Jákup á Borg, who is very fast and offensive.
Claus Bech Jørgensen was taken out because he isn't fullfit yet, as he's just recovering from injury, and has been on Coventry's bench lately. And again, Tór Ingar Akselsen is a offensive midfielder.
That our goalie, Jákup Mikkelsen had a bad day, that's another story, but if he was wasting time, it had nothing to do with overall tactics, because the team fought what ever they were capable of.

[geysir]

That is nonsense, mate! :cool:
Andrew av Fløtum was substuted for Christian Høgni Jacobsen, who is a faster striker and a bit more of a targetplayer.
Fródi Benjaminsen was subsistuted for Jákup á Borg, who is very fast and offensive.
Claus Bech Jørgensen was taken out because he isn't fullfit yet, as he's just recovering from injury, and has been on Coventry's bench lately. And again, Tór Ingar Akselsen is a offensive midfielder.
That our goalie, Jákup Mikkelsen had a bad day, that's another story, but if he was wasting time, it had nothing to do with overall tactics, because the team fought what ever they were capable of.

You are quite right, but I did not see that your goalie had a bad day. Definitly the striker was going nowhere when your goalie rashly made some small contact with him. He guessed right for the penalty and got a goodish hand to the ball, for those two actions alone it immediatly puts him 2 points ahead of Shay Given in penalty shot goalkeeping ability.
He had no chance with the deflected 2nd goal.
So on a good day, would he have stopped the penalty shot and anticipated the deflection? :-)

You could also add that you had Duff wrapped up for 90 mins. without even having 2 men on him.

[Islander]

So on a good day, would he have stopped the penalty shot and anticipated the deflection? :-).

No, you are absoloutely right. But besides the above mentioned, and obviously many other good actions through the match, he was gulity of the penalty itself, he had several poor deliveries, and gave several returns (too many, even the conditions taken in consideration) I say this, because on a normal day he is way up there, with good international class.



You could also add that you had Duff wrapped up for 90 mins. without even having 2 men on him.

Yes, all in all, the team had a good spell, with an unforgetable first half.

[Slash/ED]

That is nonsense, mate! :cool:
Andrew av Fløtum was substuted for Christian Høgni Jacobsen, who is a faster striker and a bit more of a targetplayer.
Fródi Benjaminsen was subsistuted for Jákup á Borg, who is very fast and offensive.
Claus Bech Jørgensen was taken out because he isn't fullfit yet, as he's just recovering from injury, and has been on Coventry's bench lately. And again, Tór Ingar Akselsen is a offensive midfielder.
That our goalie, Jákup Mikkelsen had a bad day, that's another story, but if he was wasting time, it had nothing to do with overall tactics, because the team fought what ever they were capable of.

Well I know very little about your team that's just how it looked to me, I could well be wrong, I hope I am.

[mypost]

Is there any real point in footballing minnows such as the Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra, Scotland, Kazakhstan, Malta and Luxembourg competing with the stronger nations in the qualifiers? Their only function is to serve as cannon fodder for the better teams. FIFA themselves even recognise this in their rules about goal difference - when ranking teams on equal points, the goal difference built up in the matches agains the weakest teams in the group is discounted. All the small teams can hope for is to take a few scalps off the bigger teams, such as Liechtenstein's nil-all victory against us a few years ago, or the Faroes' draw against the Scots, or else to take points off smaller teams. As a result, when they play the bigger teams, they invariably put about 10 men behind the ball - nothing wrong with that, their managers are free to choose whatever tactics they please, negative or positive, but it just shows that they go into matches without much hope of winning in the first place.

What I propose is that FIFA set up a two-tier qualifying competition, where the countries that habitually end up as whipping-boys play each other. Then allow the top two teams out of this section qualify for the main qualifiers with all the other teams. At least it would give the small teams a better chance of building up a string of good results, with the incentive being that they would get to play against the top teams in Europe. It must be demoralising for both the players and fans of these teams at the moment to know that they never have a chance of qualifying for the major tournaments - in this system at least they wouldn't have to got week in week out getting trounced.

This is the FIFA World Cup. The whole world is invited. Rightly, all of the UEFA members can compete in it, even if some of them are hopeless. The players play for the pride and honour of playing for their country, and they put themselves in the shop window for a transfer to a foreign club. There shouldn't be pre-qualifiers before the tournament, -there isn't the time to play them in any case. Goal difference against the bottom teams in groups, only does not count in European Championship qualifiers. It does count in the World Cup, that's why we were in the play-off last time.

Maybe the poster who began the thread is concerned that Ireland don't score enough goals against those teams. That, I will agree with.

[Plastic Paddy]

I would hate to see a two-tier competition in either the Euro or the World Cup qualifiers. Matches against the likes of the Faroes, San Marino and Andorra are an important part of the complexion of competitive international football and should continue as such. Others in this thread have made the case strongly enough for their retention, so I won't repeat them here.

:ball: PP

[Colie]

no way!!!!!!! look at the faroes...ya man was a plumber by day and a footballer by night. he must know himself hes no world beater so to find himself fixing a sink at 10am and lining out representing his country against damien duff that evening must be amazing...disheartening me ars* :P i'd love it

Agreed.

[hamish]

Speaking of underdogs - don't forget Finland qualifying for the womens' Euro 2005 semi-finals yesterday. First time a Finnish footie side has qualified for footbal finals.
I believe Finland is having something like an Italia 90 at the moment - great excitement up there.

[Levantine]

A two-tier system could actually be a good idea. Those "minnows" won't miss out on the sense of competition (aiming to finish 5th, rather than 6th, in the group, has very little to do with what competetive sport is all about), and would still have a chance against the big ones, ince they qualify for the next stage of the competition.

As to equality in competitions such as the Champions' League, it simply won't happen. The clubs from the European top divisions, such as those in England, in Spain, and in Italy, won't be keen at all to participate in a competition which produces few attractive matches. An unattractive match means few fans watching, which means little money in revenues.
Watch Liverpool's qualifying matches next year and you'll see what I mean. (Actually, their fans just might still crowd the stadium.. but the rule stands)

[Slash/ED]

(Actually, their fans just might still crowd the stadium.. but the rule stands)

I doubt they will, they couldn't crowd out their stadium for their group stage matches last year.

[Gerrit]

I would hate to see a two-tier competition in either the Euro or the World Cup qualifiers. Matches against the likes of the Faroes, San Marino and Andorra are an important part of the complexion of competitive international football and should continue as such. Others in this thread have made the case strongly enough for their retention, so I won't repeat them here.

:ball: PP

Vatican City FA is busy with affiliaton to the UEFA and FIFA (yes, they have an own national team and their own five-a-league with several sides competing !). Now that is a small country to join, 1000 inhabitants - it even makes Luxembourg look huge. Still, they're a country so they have the right to join, I'd even say it will be an interesting team to look forward to and quite a unique trip (even though due to spectator numbers games against somewhat good teams will probably be played in Rome's Olympic Stadium)

It's the world cup: everyone is invited. Club football has become a somewhat elitist thing, let's not do the same with countrywise football please.

[Levantine]

Is it just me or does there seem to be a lot more Liverpool fans out and about these past few weeks? :D

It's not just you. They seem to be crawling out of their holes. Many have been spotted as far from Liverpool as here! :eek:

[holidaysong]

I fully agree. Romance is everything.

That's exactly it! The Liechtensteins of this world all the way! :) :ball:

[holidaysong]

Ever read that book about Liechtenstein's WC qualifying campaign by a lad called Connolly? Worth a read, though the name escapes me. Has a triangular stamp on the cover.
I've often thought that a tournament for all the so-called lesser lights would make a good TV event.
Certainly better than watching the women's tournaments. :D

Sounds good will look out for it.
Was watching Sweden vs. England Women's match last nite... Just not the same... :ball:

[Plastic Paddy]

Certainly better than watching the women's tournaments

Was watching Sweden vs. England Women's match last nite... Just not the same...

Lads?!? You are lads, yes? :eek: :p

It's better than any Eircom League match you'll see AND the players are better looking by several orders of magnitude... so the problem is what, exactly? :D

:ball: PP

[hamish]

[QUOTE=holidaysong]Sounds good will look out for it.
Was watching Sweden vs. England Women's match last nite... Just not the same..

That's because there's women playing :D

I like watching the womens' game because there's much less in the way of gamespersonship (very PC :D ). feigning injuries, arguing with referees etc although it's starting to creep in a little.

Some bloke on Radio 5 last night said that we should watch womens footie the same way we watch womens tennis - it's different but can be just as enjoyable.

I thought the England v Sweden game was quite absorbing - the excitement of watching England desperately trying to get that all important goal made compelling viewing. I actually felt sorry for them at the end. Some of the tackles were tough - no namby pamby stuff there.

Come on guys, give the womens game a chance.

You'd never see Emma Byrne behaving like that Israeli keeper.

[pineapple stu]

Have to have these teams in.

a) As someone pointed out, who are we to kick small teams out when not that long ago, we were down there ourselves?
b) The likes of Asia and Africa have regionalised phases (partly) because there are so many countries, and also to reduce travel costs. Those two factors don't apply in Europe.
c) The Faroes as a country must have made a quarter of a million from tourism from that match. For a small economy, that's vital. I for one will be going straight back if we ever get drawn against them again, and maybe even if we don't. Had we not played them, who knows if I'd ever have gone?
d) Again, as mentioned, the likes of Cyprus 3-2 Spain, Andorra 1-0 Macedonia, etc. is the kind of result which crops up often enough and is a huge boost for the relevant counties. Why take away their chance?

Incidentally, it's worth noting that all Faroe Island league games are played on Astro pitches. For them to play internationals on grass is a huge change and a huge advantage for opposing teams. Imagine what they could achieve if they had grass pitches, or even FIFA-approved astro-pitches?

[Levantine]

It should ultimately be up to the Liechtensteiners of the world to decide which system they prefer. As romantic as the current system may seem to an outsider (with the occasional surprise result), I do believe most of their football fans would rather have a few really competetive matches in a preliminary round, than just one in an entire campaign.
Wouldn't everyone?


Have to have these teams in.
b) The likes of Asia and Africa have regionalised phases (partly) because there are so many countries, and also to reduce travel costs. Those two factors don't apply in Europe.


Actually, Africa has the same number (give or take one) of participants as Europe, while Asia has fewer than both. See here (http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/t/team/index.html).
Who would have thought? :ball:

[eirebhoy]

a) As someone pointed out, who are we to kick small teams out when not that long ago, we were down there ourselves?
With my suggestion they certainly wouldn't be kicked out.

[Gerrit]

By the way . . . are you that big bald-headed lad I met at Dublin Airport on Wednesday??

:eek:

I don't think baldness and make-up match well, would look like a crossover of techno and goth :) So, ehm, no it wasn't me :D

[Gerrit]

It should ultimately be up to the Liechtensteiners of the world to decide which system they prefer. As romantic as the current system may seem to an outsider (with the occasional surprise result), I do believe most of their football fans would rather have a few really competetive matches in a preliminary round, than just one in an entire campaign.
Wouldn't everyone?



Actually, Africa has the same number (give or take one) of participants as Europe, while Asia has fewer than both. See here (http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/t/team/index.html).
Who would have thought? :ball:

Yes, but travel distances are a huge difference as Pineapple Stu told. Travelling from Egypt to South Africa is a much more expensive trip than from Norway to Spain, let alone what it will cost to go from Guam to Jordan. Plus, in Europe there's excellent travel facilities because we have good transport facilities both via air, water and land. While an away game to Sao Tome & Principe or the Comores is much less easy to organise, certainly for a rather poor FA from the other side of the continent. If Cape Verde has to play away vs the Seychelles it would cost them a fortune... While in Europe this problem is non existing. Even Israel-Iceland would be relatively easy to set up.

[pineapple stu]

Actually, Africa has the same number (give or take one) of participants as Europe, while Asia has fewer than both. See here (http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/t/team/index.html).
Who would have thought? :ball:
Hmmm...was thinking that afterwards alright...oh well! Still, the travel is definitely a consideration. Also, the difference in quality between the top and bottom European and the top and bottom African and Asian teams is far smaller.


With my suggestion they certainly wouldn't be kicked out.
Marginalised/kicked out - same idea.

The next campaign sees I think groups of eight? That'll give the smaller nations a couple more competitive games too. In any case, you currently have the likes of Faroe Islands v. Cyprus, Liechtenstein v. Luxembourg, Malta v. Iceland - in which the bigger country has yet to win. So there are a few competitive games already anyway.

[Cowboy]

I kinda liked seeing San Marino go one up against England so i say keep them in :)

[pineapple stu]

I kinda liked seeing San Marino go one up against England so I say keep them in :)
:D

Case rested!

A glorious seven minutes spent flicking between NI-Ireland and San Marino-England before David Platt I think finally equalised. Memories! Still have the newspaper from the following day! :)

[anto eile]

Is there any real point in footballing minnows such as the Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra, Scotland, Kazakhstan, Malta and Luxembourg competing with the stronger nations in the qualifiers? Their only function is to serve as cannon fodder for the better teams. FIFA themselves even recognise this in their rules about goal difference - when ranking teams on equal points, the goal difference built up in the matches agains the weakest teams in the group is discounted. All the small teams can hope for is to take a few scalps off the bigger teams, such as Liechtenstein's nil-all victory against us a few years ago, or the Faroes' draw against the Scots, or else to take points off smaller teams. As a result, when they play the bigger teams, they invariably put about 10 men behind the ball - nothing wrong with that, their managers are free to choose whatever tactics they please, negative or positive, but it just shows that they go into matches without much hope of winning in the first place.

What I propose is that FIFA set up a two-tier qualifying competition, where the countries that habitually end up as whipping-boys play each other. Then allow the top two teams out of this section qualify for the main qualifiers with all the other teams. At least it would give the small teams a better chance of building up a string of good results, with the incentive being that they would get to play against the top teams in Europe. It must be demoralising for both the players and fans of these teams at the moment to know that they never have a chance of qualifying for the major tournaments - in this system at least they wouldn't have to got week in week out getting trounced.



i see your point,and its a good idea. but what id prefer personally is to go one further, have say the lowest 7 ranked uefa countries put into one group qualifying group, so theres going to be a chance of 1 minnow qualifying,and one to make play offs.id understand the logic of objecting to this,because it would guarantee the likes of andorra san marino etc gettin into the world cup/european championship.

if i couldnt get that guaranteed,then my next and very fair suggestion is this:

an open draw for every team,no seeds,no pots,no pools etc. simple open draw. meaning technically the likes of germany, france, italy, spain, sweden, england could end up in the same group-of course the big countries would be majorly pi$$ed off at that, and likewise andorra,san marino,faeroes,liechtenstein,luxembourg and malta could get in the same group. but tough shiyt if anyone is inconvenienced.this is a completely open and fair way of drawing qualifying groups.the current system is corrupt to the advantage of the bigger countries.

[anto eile]

Was chatting to the Faroes fans & they loved the craic of all the foreigners coming over. The women get fresh meat in for a couple of days & all the locals get to see world superstars play like Keane & Henry. There's no way it's disheartening for the fans, I reckon they're over the moon to have these games. Now as for the team, yeah, I guess it hurts.

ah the oul "sure we're just happy to be there" attitude :rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

ah the oul "sure we're just happy to be there" attitude :rolleyes:
Actually, a couple of people I was talking to were saying they were getting bored with losing all the time and were looking for the team to take another step forward and start getting five or six points a campaign. A few years ago, the Faroes were getting beaten 8-1 (by Yugoslavia) and 6-2 (by Spain), so they've made progress since then already. Perfect example of why they shouldn't be marginalised.

[anto eile]

Vatican City FA is busy with affiliaton to the UEFA and FIFA (yes, they have an own national team and their own five-a-league with several sides competing !). Now that is a small country to join, 1000 inhabitants - it even makes Luxembourg look huge. Still, they're a country so they have the right to join, I'd even say it will be an interesting team to look forward to and quite a unique trip (even though due to spectator numbers games against somewhat good teams will probably be played in Rome's Olympic Stadium)

It's the world cup: everyone is invited. Club football has become a somewhat elitist thing, let's not do the same with countrywise football please.

imagine this:northern ireland v vatican city.should be interesting :D:D :D :D
interestingly the vatican would (like andorra, who play in Barcelona) have to play home games out of their own country.id say theyd play in the flaminio stadium rathere than olimpico though

[pineapple stu]

Read in When Saturday Comes that the Isle of Man and Guernsey are among the federations looking to join FIFA and play in the World Cup (though they wouldn't be allowed enter the European Championships). Now that would be taking the mick.