Wales V Republic of Ireland - Sunday, 15th November 2020 - UEFA Nations League

[seanfhear]

Yeah, sorry, not trying to clog the thread with negativity, I'm just very frustrated that a player with such poor passing judgement was allowed to play for us. I suppose we don't have a whole lot of other options. I honestly think that was one of, if not the, single biggest mistakes I've ever seen at international level.
Is it up there with Spartacus crossing the Rubicon ? ?

Or that French fella head butting the Italian in that big final ?

[Bielsa´s irish]

Knight did everything wrong when he came, Byrne should have thrown it inside the welsh box, but the kid was distracted

[Trequartista20]

Awful again; I really don't know where we go from here.

We offer no goal threat at all. One goal in 10-and-a-half hours of football. And we look very iffy at the back in every match we play.

England excepted, these aren't even second rate teams we're playing, they're third-rate sides. Teams like Wales, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Finland, and we're failing to lay a glove on them.

We're just so easy to play against.

[pineapple stu]

I honestly think that was one of, if not the, single biggest mistakes I've ever seen at international level.
You haven't watched much international football so.

Remember Terry Phelan and Packie Bonner against Holland in 1994 for example?

Or Shay Given for much of Euro 2012?

It was a hospital pass; it was crap but it happens. There's no need for daft hyperbole over it though.

[the 12 th man]

That looked like a handball by the Welsh lad next to the post. Sky only just put the replay on.

.

Watched it a few times now and in my opinion a 100% penalty.

[Colbert Report]

Is it up there with Spartacus crossing the Rubicon ? ?

Or that French fella head butting the Italian in that big final ?

Look, I get that a lot of people on this forum watch the LOI regularly and it is only natural to be defensive of the only player from that league that plays for the national team. The pass he attempted was totally indefensible in my opinion. I'd love to play for Ireland but I'm not good enough, and sadly, neither is this guy. That was Joey Lapira stuff.

[John83]

Is it up there with Spartacus crossing the Rubicon ? ?
I think you're just being funny, but for the record, Spartacus' rebellion was in the south of Italy, near Mount Vesuvius. Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon with his legions to spark a later civil war. We don't quite know where it was, but it was a northern border, so I don't think Spartacus ever got near it.

[ontheotherhand]

Yeah, sorry, not trying to clog the thread with negativity, I'm just very frustrated that a player with such poor passing judgement was allowed to play for us. I suppose we don't have a whole lot of other options. I honestly think that was one of, if not the, single biggest mistakes I've ever seen at international level.


He had about 5 touches and 4 were fantastic. He made a mistake that was compounded by Knight (I think?) not moving quick enough. Stop with the hyperbole, Hourihane's pass directly to England leading up to the penalty was a more ridiculous error and it only happened on Thursday.

[pineapple stu]

Look, I get that a lot of people on this forum watch the LOI regularly and it is only natural to be defensive of the only player from that league that plays for the national team. The pass he attempted was totally indefensible in my opinion. I'd love to play for Ireland but I'm not good enough, and sadly, neither is this guy. That was Joey Lapira stuff.
It was a crap pass, but you're going to have to put your hand up here and say that "It was the worst pass ever in international football" is just utterly stupid.

Sorry, but...

[Colbert Report]

Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions. I'm not trying to wind anyone up, I'll delete the posts if people feel that strongly about it.

[Jovial Rambler]

Jack Byrne - i was taught not to do that when i was six! Embarrassing.
Hendrick and Molumby both out of next game.
Time for a clear out like Germany did a few years back. Get rid of the older players who arent essential or good enough.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Watched the whole game
The result is not what happened on the pitch.
1) We were the better side, agreed with the broadcasters, Wales won with very, very little.
2)Their goal was a FOUL! By Moore.
3)We had a penalty call at the end. Was a penalty!
4) The game was Ireland commandinng the match and Wales counter attacking

[John83]

England excepted, these aren't even second rate teams we're playing, they're third-rate sides. Teams like Wales, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Finland, and we're failing to lay a glove on them.
Wales are 20th in the FIFA rankings. 22nd in the elo rankings. Describing them as third rate is utterly ridiculous. They're a much better team than us.

[shakermaker1982]

I think a few posters are going a tad overboard on the Byrne pass. Plenty of crap PL midfielders have played for Ireland and misplaced many a ball.

I thought he was bright when he came on and would like to see him get a few more minutes against Bulgaria. Same goes for Knight.

I’d start Collins. We need a result. He’s not brilliant but he is scoring goals. Did well when he came on.

Randolph has been getting a lot of stick but his saves stopped us losing 3-0. It should have been 3-0 even though we played ok without threatening that much.

[pineapple stu]

Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions. I'm not trying to wind anyone up, I'll delete the posts if people feel that strongly about it.
No-one's asking you to delete any posts or saying you're not entitled to your opinion.

But when information comes along to prove your opinion wrong, like this -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LHhmJ-t7Js

- generally you should just acknowledge that you were wrong. It's better all round.

[Razors left peg]

The shiite being talked on here is getting worse with every game.

Jack Byrne was good when he came on, made a stupid pass but I would start him against Bulgaria.

Id call Parrott up from the 21s and start him, Idah was poor and Collins not the answer.

Hourihane will start on Wednesday but I have to say I nearly threw something at the tv when I seen him coming on tonight when we were chasing the game. He adds nothing, and we were screaming out for Byrne with half hour to go. It was the 1st time I seriously questioned Kennys judgement.

We cant continue to play out from the back with Randolph and Duffy, Duffy is killing us with ball at his feet

[Trequartista20]

Wales are 20th in the FIFA rankings. 22nd in the elo rankings. Describing them as third rate is utterly ridiculous. They're a much better team than us.

They are, but we're in the same Nations League group. Let's not pretend they aren't of a roughly similar standing to ourselves. And yet they could easily have won 3-0.

We should at least be making it difficult for them.

[Closed Account 2]

We will never score, and chances are we will conceed most games, if we keep playing this passing game which we don't have the players for.

We need to get a seasoned manager in who knows what he is doing and can grind out tight results. We need someone who can drill a defence, Kenny can't do that, look how sloppy the Wales goal was.

[seanfhear]

I think you're just being funny, but for the record, Spartacus' rebellion was in the south of Italy, near Mount Vesuvius. Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon with his legions to spark a later civil war. We don't quite know where it was, but it was a northern border, so I don't think Spartacus ever got near it.
I should have checked but I knew some one made a bad mistake crossing the Rubicon ~ ~ Jack Byrne should never have made that pass but he did set up Collins with a reasonable chance = A Curate's Egg = Good in Parts !

[youngirish]

If Odubeko breaks into the West Ham team over the next few months, as many are expecting him to do, then surely we should try to entice him with the offer of a senior cap instead of persisting with the likes of Idah, who is not ready yet, or Collins, who will never be ready.

This current team under Kenny looks clueless in the final third and very low on confidence. If anyone thinks one decent forward will solve all his issues then they don't know football. If only it was that simple.

Worst start to an Irish manager's career in the past half century, even Stan had a few decent results by this stage of his reign.

[pineapple stu]

They are, but we're in the same Nations League group. Let's not pretend they aren't of a roughly similar standing to ourselves. And yet they could easily have won 3-0.

We should at least be making it difficult for them.
The Nations League just means we're in the same quartile as them. That's a wide enough range. Certainly wide enough that they don't have to be a "roughly similar standing"

They're better than us. And I'll see your "they could easily have won 3-0" and raise you "we should have had a penalty at the end"

In the end, we got a draw and a 1-0 defeat off them, which is respectable given that, and I don't know if anyone has noticed this before, we have no forwards worth the name.

[seanfhear]

Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions. I'm not trying to wind anyone up, I'll delete the posts if people feel that strongly about it.
You have crossed the Rubicon.

[brine3]

We will never score, and chances are we will conceed most games, if we keep playing this passing game which we don't have the players for.

We need to get a seasoned manager in who knows what he is doing and can grind out tight results. We need someone who can drill a defence, Kenny can't do that, look how sloppy the Wales goal was.

get outta that garden

[sbgawa]

Yeah, sorry, not trying to clog the thread with negativity, I'm just very frustrated that a player with such poor passing judgement was allowed to play for us. I suppose we don't have a whole lot of other options. I honestly think that was one of, if not the, single biggest mistakes I've ever seen at international level.


yeah to be fair ive never seen hourihane or hendricks or indeed any irish player in the last few games play a bad pass. LOL

[placid casual]

Jack Byrne - i was taught not to do that when i was six! Embarrassing.

And remind us all on here what level of football you got to play to yourself?
Mistakes can happen - if anything his underhit pass now forces Kenny to try someone else in midfield instead of the lank-haired, pointless Hendrick.
No meaningful striker up front means no-one to stick it into the onion bag when needed - it's fairly rudimentary when you look at it.

[liamoo11]

If Odubeko breaks into the West Ham team over the next few months, as many are expecting him to do, then surely we should try to entice him with the offer of a senior cap instead of persisting with the likes of Idah, who is not ready yet, or Collins, who will never be ready.

This current team under Kenny looks clueless in the final third and very low on confidence. If anyone thinks one decent forward will solve all his issues then they don't know football. If only it was that simple.

Worst start to an Irish manager's career in the past half century, even Stan had a few decent results by this stage of his reign.

Ah here odubeko has hardly played a few 23s games yet I wouldn't be holding my breath for him to see games with west ham this season. I'd go as far as to say it definitely wont happen. Idah is 19 this is excellent experience pick him Tuesday collins is certainly not the future and parrott should be allowed go back to millwall and get fit to get a run in their team

[liamoo11]

The shiite being talked on here is getting worse with every game.

Jack Byrne was good when he came on, made a stupid pass but I would start him against Bulgaria.

Id call Parrott up from the 21s and start him, Idah was poor and Collins not the answer.

Hourihane will start on Wednesday but I have to say I nearly threw something at the tv when I seen him coming on tonight when we were chasing the game. He adds nothing, and we were screaming out for Byrne with half hour to go. It was the 1st time I seriously questioned Kennys judgement.

We cant continue to play out from the back with Randolph and Duffy, Duffy is killing us with ball at his feet

Great post, think parrott should be let go back to millwall to get fit

[zero]

I think these games under kenny has highlighted a - to me at least- fascinating divide between the footballing supporting public. Those who think that playing it the "right way" is the only way to do it, whatever about the results, and those who look at the result first and the performance second. I never really realised that there is a significant section of the fanbase that doesn't really mind losing games.

Obviously every single fan would like to have both nice play and results.

I will just say - as a few of the players have done - that this idea of having to 'learn a new system' is rubbish. All the players have played under different managers with different systems throughout their careers, it's not like they're having to suddenly learn to pass the ball after 15+ years of being players.

[Jovial Rambler]

And remind us all on here what level of football you got to play to yourself?
Mistakes can happen - if anything his underhit pass now forces Kenny to try someone else in midfield instead of the lank-haired, pointless Hendrick.
No meaningful striker up front means no-one to stick it into the onion bag when needed - it's fairly rudimentary when you look at it.

Same level as Mourinho.
Do we need to have played Intl level before we can comment?
He made a dreadful pass. If u think otherwise please give us your view.

[Diggs246]

Does anyone have a link for the "pass" sending off please

[Colbert Report]

No-one's asking you to delete any posts or saying you're not entitled to your opinion.

But when information comes along to prove your opinion wrong, like this -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LHhmJ-t7Js

- generally you should just acknowledge that you were wrong. It's better all round.


I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong, but the fact that you had to go back to find a clip from over twenty-six years ago speaks volumes.

[pineapple stu]

No, it was the first one that came to my head. I'm sure there's loads more. But I only needed to find one because your claim was so clear. And daft

[pineapple stu]

In fact, for a more recent example, look at Randolph's pass on Helsinki which led directly to their goal.

Randolph should presumably never play again, etc

[ontheotherhand]

I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong, but the fact that you had to go back to find a clip from over twenty-six years ago speaks volumes.

He couldve gone back as far as thursday. Would that have helped? Should we put together a highlights package of irish players ****ing up over the past few years? Duffy and Hourihane could fill an hour on their own.

One misplaced pass does not a bad footballer make. Anyone who has watched byrne play at multiple levels knows that was highly unusual for him. If it hadnt happened we'd all be raving about his previous touches and passes. It did, so we move on. I've no doubt he will make amends. He lit it up against Bulgaria first time around.

[Colbert Report]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. No disrespect intended.

[pineapple stu]

It isn't about agreeing to disagree. It's about acknowledging you're wrong. Ontheotherhand makes a good point - look at Cyrus Christie's headed "pass" on Thursday which led immediately to England's second goal.

There's three examples now. Do you think they were all somehow much better than Byrne's pass?

[Colbert Report]

Okay, I'm sorry. You're right. Footballers make mistakes all the time and Jack Byrne's was no worse than a host of others we've seen recently.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Knight was flat footed as well, that happens when you only meet a teammate after one training session

[Diggs246]

I have to see this. Any link of the pass/ sending off

[ontheotherhand]

Knight was flat footed as well, that happens when you only meet a teammate after one training session

It wasn't a great cameo at all for Knight but he is spared the criticism because people would rather go after a lad playing in Ireland who made one error. Irish fans eh? Best in the world I'm told.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I thought Knight was at fault at the goal, didnt follow Brooks

[Colbert Report]

Yeah, not going after anyone because of what league they play in. Byrne's mistake led directly to Hendrick being sent off. Knight was no great shakes but he didn't make any glaring errors.

Three biggest mistakes today were:

1) Byrne's pass in injury time
2) Hendrick kicking a Welsh player in the back of the knee for no apparent reason. Should have been a straight red and a three match ban
3) Hendrick mis-judging a bounce when he was the last man back during a corner, almost leading to a Welsh goal

[tetsujin1979]

two pretty depressing stats from the game
1328068434404503553
1328051564989329409
Fail to beat Bulgaria on Wednesday, and it's the longest winless run since 1972

[shakermaker1982]

I’m trying to put myself in Kenny’s position. if I was managing a side that couldn’t score. What can you do?

Change the personnel? He has made changes, he is missing players but there is nobody obvious on the subs bench that is a major omission. Keeping Hourihane on the bench is the way to go. He plays in the PL for Villa but he’s anonymous whenever selected.

Change the playing style? He tweaked that today, the players mixed it a lot more. I’m guessing the players were given the freedom to play what was in front of them. Duffy is not great on the ball so less pressure on him.

The formation? We didn’t create many clear cut chances. I think we need another body up top. Will he deviate from the 433? I don’t know enough about Kenny but at this moment in time, I do not think the personnel within the squad is able to make a 433 work. Diamond? Bog standard 442? At what point does he make the change? I think we are getting very close to the point where a formation tweak is made to provide more of a forward threat.

It’s also all very easy to say let’s take a punt on this kid or that kid. “It cannot be any worse that what we have, let’s blood all the youngsters” etc. We’ve all said it at one point (I know I will have done). Let’s give Idah, Parrott or any other hot prospect etc a run of games. Hoping they will be the next Robbie Keane. But you know what? It’s nigh on impossible for a kid to make an immediate impact at this level. They are still learning the game (sound like Roy Keane here), they need games but this development needs to be done week in week out at club level. We are expecting miracles, a hot teenage prospect playing up front now probably needs 2 seasons of football at a good level before he can be expected to make a decent dent at international football. Idah and Parrott need 25 + games in the Championship this season to kick on. Connolly is getting starts at Brighton, it looks promising but he is still only a baby really.

I really do not know where the goals are going to come from any time soon. We are relying on McClean and Duffy to nick a goal here or there, this has of course been a major issue since Robbie retired . Nobody else knows how to score. I really hope we try and offer some support for whoever ends up leading the line versus Bulgaria.

[nigel-harps1954]

I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong, but the fact that you had to go back to find a clip from over twenty-six years ago speaks volumes.

You only had to go back about five minutes before to see a worse pass when Hourihane put a simple one-two about ten yards in front of the player and out of play.

You're chatting utter sh!te here and rightfully being called out on it. Wise up

[John83]

I think these games under kenny has highlighted a - to me at least- fascinating divide between the footballing supporting public. Those who think that playing it the "right way" is the only way to do it, whatever about the results, and those who look at the result first and the performance second. I never really realised that there is a significant section of the fanbase that doesn't really mind losing games.

Obviously every single fan would like to have both nice play and results.

I will just say - as a few of the players have done - that this idea of having to 'learn a new system' is rubbish. All the players have played under different managers with different systems throughout their careers, it's not like they're having to suddenly learn to pass the ball after 15+ years of being players.
I don't think there are many on here defending the results in that way any more. Those defending Kenny are pointing to retirements and injuries and the level of our opponents and suggesting that maybe we can't expect to be pushing England or even Wales for the moment. Changing the manager is not a magic bullet. Take Duffy and McClean out of the team, as many here are calling for, and you're left with a collection of players with 0 or 1 international goals ever. They're not going to magically start scoring because we revert to 442 and direct passing. No one "doesn't really mind losing games", but some people seem to think that with the right manager and formation, anything is possible. Is it, ****. ****e players, ****e results, barring the occasional miracle. Wales started today with a lad up front from Man Utd and another who just moved to Spurs from Real Madrid. Their other forward is 23, and has 15 caps in spite of injury problems. We had a 19 year old boy who has scored one league goal for Norwich; a limited player lining out for Stoke whose most recent accomplishment for us is getting sent off; and a lad who hasn't scored for Wycombe since he moved from Hibs, where he managed a goal every 11 games in the highly regarded Scottish Premiership. Idah and Horgan have scored a grand total of 0 goals at international level. The alternatives to them are not really any better. Our best forward was McGoldrick, who just retired. Before that, it was Walters, who retired. Before that, it was Keane, who retired. Long was in the mix throughout that period, but is past his best and was in any case unavailable. This is not championship manager. There is no bug where if you just get the striker to mark the goalkeeper you'll net a hatful of goals. There is more pain ahead, and the main difference getting rid of Kenny will do is change who incorrectly gets the bulk of the blame for that from the fans.

[Closed Account 2]

I’m trying to put myself in Kenny’s position. if I was managing a side that couldn’t score. What can you do?


We are not blessed with a plethora of options upfront, but Bulgaria struggle to keep clean sheet so at home to them is theoretically the best chance we have of scoring in this group.

I do think the main thing for him is to try and stem the flow of defeats. In our current plight, i would be over the moon with a 0-0, it would keep us above Bulgaria. I think he should switch to a 5-3-2 or 3-5-2. Basically 3 center backs, two wing backs; two defensively minded midfielders, with someone like Brady ahead of the that at the top of midfield. Upfront I'd go for Long (experienced, good hold up play, can pressure the Bulgarian center backs a bit, in some ways McGoldrick would have been ideal) and then a more mobile striker ahead of him.

It's an age old tactic, but packing the defence and rear areas of midfield with bodies will stifle the opposition, and will give us a bit of defensive solidity. If we have pace out wide we can use this to hit Bulgaria on the counter, the defensive midfielders can cover for the wing backs if they are occasionally caught up the field. Russia actually just played quite a similar game to this today after they had a man sent off early and shipped two quick goals to Turkey. They packed the central and rear areas of the pitch but used pace out wide to hit the Turks on the counter, in the end they lost 3-2 but tactically it was reasonably good given they were a man down for most of the game and trailing 3-1 early on, they were unlucky to lose, and 3-3 would have been a fair result.

[lofty9]

I’m a big Kenny advocate, like any fan of the team I hope he’ll get there. One thing I’ve noticed is his record with Dunfermline is very similar to his start with Ireland, struggled to score goals. His selection of Idah reminds me of McCarthy’s stubbornness to persist with Harte and Kennedy back in the day, that worked out ok, but Idah needs constant first team football, the other two were getting it.

[Closed Account 2]

I thought Knight was at fault at the goal, didnt follow Brooks

I think it was poor organisation, two of our guys went for their guy at the near post. Our defenders seemed to actually collide with each other - there maybe have been a foul, not sure.

In the collision Duffy (I think) got a glance on it at the near post, effectively pushing it to the far post. A Welsh player then got his head on it and sent it back toward the center of the goal where Brookes bundled it in.

[Bungle]

We're a gas team. It seems if we beat Bulgaria and Russia (and Romania?) lose, we could get into pot 2.

In other years, getting into pot 2 would be a cause of celebration. The problem is if we are in pot 2, I think pretty much all of the pot 3 teams are better than us. In fact, I wouldn't fancy us getting the better of any current pot 3 sides over two games. There are pot 4 teams like Slovenia that have players like Oblak and Illcic. Teams like that will fancy their chances of taking 4 points off us. Moving onto the pot 5 sides, would many on here be confident of us taking 6 points off the likes of Cyprus or Belarus because I wouldn't.

I really think as a country and as a fanbase, we need to accept where we are at. Not a hope we make the world cup and that's even if we get the most favourable draw possible. The only good performance in Kenny's regime was away in Slovakia where we deserved to win. The rest has been poor and all this talk of a new way of playing is patronising. They are premiership and championship players so being able to pass the ball amongst themselves for short spells is a basic requirement. You look at minnows like Luxemburg and they play football - can only imagine how Kenny Cunningham or Stephen Ward would laud us if we played like them.

Kenny should not be judged too cruelly yet. Tactically he hasn't done anything that impresses me and he is lucky to have a lot of games which not all managers are afforded. However, it's time that he puts down his marker for 2024 with his selections and that involves puting the younger players in to the team en masse. Perhaps that could slightly impact us in the short team results wise - lets be honest it can't get any worse - but the likes of Brady, Hendrick and McClean have had their day and will only get in the way of the likes of Molumby and Knight. I have a soft spot for Randolph and Duffy but likewise we need to be getting Bazunu in the team and getting a centre half into the team that is comfortable on the ball seeing as that is how "new Ireland" wants to play.

As far as I'm concerned if we finish 3rd or even 4th in a wc qualifying group but by the end of the campaign we have a young talented team ready for ec 2024 qualifiers, then he deserves to be given another campaign.