Out with the old, in with the new

[youngirish]

Kenny's first challenge is to put out to pasture some of those great servants of Irish football over the years who unfortunately are past their best or just never had a sufficient level of ability to be consistent performers at International level.

Luckily we have a glut of potential talent coming through to replace them. The question I wish to pose is which players are ready to make the step up to be first team regulars in time for the play-offs in October and which if we were to qualify could become regulars by the time the finals were to begin next year.

Let's review the contenders in order of how close each is to being ready to make the step up to being a regular for the senior team.

Jayson Molumby - Midfielder - 20 - Millwall (On loan from Brighton)
Coming to then end of his breakthrough season on loan to Millwall where he has been one of their standout performers. He is perhaps the only player in this list that is already ready to be a first team Irish International. A box to box midfielder with bundles of energy, strong in the tackle and an eye for a pass he must be considered a capable replacement for the aging Glenn Whelan.

Will Smallbone - Midfielder - 20 - Southampton
Has now become a regular in a very decent Southampton midfield, occasionally starting but also making appearances from the bench. One of the nominees along with Idah and Connolly for U23 player of the year last season he has looked the most comfortable of the three when playing in the Premiership. A more creative midfielder than Molumby he may offer the flair our midfield has so often lacked in recent years. If he continues to progress with Southampton he should be given a chance in the next set of friendlies in place of Hourihane who is often found wanting at the top level of football.

Aaron Connolly - Forward - 20 - Brighton
Connolly has often struggled to find chances and goals to come by in a poor Brighton team despite an impressive number of appearances. How much of that is his fault and how much of it is due to the inability of his midfielders to impose themselves on the game is debatable but bar the occasional flash of class he has often failed to justify his place in the team. Personally I think he looks very raw and currently lacks the strength and awareness of what’s going on around him to be successful in the Premiership but with Shane Long and Callum Robinson also not pulling up any trees for their respective clubs he should be at least be considered as an option come October.

Michael Obafemi - Striker - 19 - Southampton
Another striker who has notched up a considerable amount of appearances for his club this season, he has scored 3 goals across all competitions for Southampton. Quick and strong he at least has the basic attributes to succeed at the top but he has been criticized by his own manager for often going missing in games and he suffers from the same issues as Connolly regarding his lack of awareness. As with Connolly these limitations can be rectified as he gets more experience but even so with a lack of decent alternatives he should at least be considered an option for the next set of friendlies.

Adam Idah - Striker - 19 - Southampton
Of the forwards mentioned here Idah has improved the most throughout the season. If he gets more minutes for an almost relegated Norwich he could easily overtake both Obafemi and Connolly as a viable alternative to our current forward options for the play off games. He has the physicality that Connolly lacks and a higher workrate than Obafemi. He also looks to have a more clinical edge than both.

Jason Knight - Midfielder - 19 - Derby
Has been a regular performer all season for a very decent Derby team pushing for a play-off place in the Championship. He lacks consistency but is highly thought of by the Derby fans and has bagged 3 goals this term. Can play anywhere across the midfield and started on the left in Derby’s last match so perhaps he could soon be considered as a replacement for the very limited McClean.

Troy Parrott - Striker - 18 - Spurs
A disappointing season for Parrott after his fine pre-season form suggested he may be ready for some first team appearances. Unfortunately Mourinho has not given him the chances he needs and perhaps a loan move would be best for him for next season. On paper he looks the most promising of all our young strikers and if he hits the ground running early next season either at Spurs or on loan at a Championship club then he should be considered for the Irish team.

[Razors left peg]

At the moment I would say all of those, bar Parrott, have a chance of being in the squad. I would probably add Dara O'Shea too

[geysir]

I think it's an appropriate time now for Paul to emerge from his lock down and state emphatically in this thread - most emphatically, which of those kids will make it onto the Irish first team, or just a squad member or just reach the lowest level of football existence - the LOI. No fannying about with fall back clauses.

[Eirambler]

Here's my take for what it's worth

Jayson Molumby - Midfielder - 20 - Millwall (On loan from Brighton)

I'd be putting Molumby straight in there. While he can play the holding midfield role that's not where I'd pick him because he's wasted a bit in that role. More of a box to box midfielder for me. But he'd be in my team.

Will Smallbone - Midfielder - 20 - Southampton

If Kenny is intent on picking a 10 he looks like the best bet at the moment. I'm not sure I'd want an out and out 10 in Slovakia though. I probably wouldn't start him in the playoffs but I'd definitely like to see him capped in the nations league.

Aaron Connolly - Forward - 20 - Brighton

I still think Connolly is better out wide than through the middle. But Brighton don't play that way so we never get to see the best of him at club level. I'd start him in the McClean role and I'd hold McClean back as a sub to run at tired defenders in the last half hour if we need a goal. I've always thought he was better in that situation.

Michael Obafemi - Striker - 19 - Southampton

I still can't figure out whether this lad is going to be a Premier League star or whether he'll end up falling down the leagues, it could still go either way I think. I'd probably leave him with the 21s for now.

Adam Idah - Striker - 19 - Southampton

Has looked good in his appearances for Norwich and should have a big future ahead of him. The playoffs might come too soon though.

Jason Knight - Midfielder - 19 - Derby

Similar to Idah I have high hopes for Jason Knight. May be a year or so away from being a senior starter though, he could take on the Molumby role for the 21s this autumn.

Troy Parrott - Striker - 18 - Spurs

I still think he has potentially the highest ceiling of all our young players. If he gets a good loan move he could develop into a senior team regular for us very quickly. However if he stays in the Spurs reserves he'll be with our Under 21s in the Autumn.

One other player I'd add to the list is Josh Cullen. I'd start McCarthy in front of the back four for the playoffs if he's fit and available, but he often isn't and if that's the case I'd have no hesitation throwing in Cullen.

Dara O'Shea also looks like a talent who is ready to play but it's harder to break into our defence so he may have to wait a while.

The goalkeeper position could also become interesting if Randolph continues to not play for West Ham. A good move for O'Hara or a positive loan move or run in the first team for Travers could bring them into contention.

Here's a rough lineup for the Slovakia game (4-3-3):

GK: Randolph
RB: Coleman/Doherty
LB: Stevens
CB: Duffy
CB: Egan/Clark
CDM: McCarthy/Cullen
CM: Molumby
CM: Hendrick/Hourihane
LWF: Connolly
RWF: Long
ST: McGoldrick

[Razors left peg]

GK: Randolph
RB: Coleman/Doherty
LB: Stevens
CB: Duffy
CB: Egan/Clark
CDM: McCarthy/Cullen
CM: Molumby
CM: Hendrick/Hourihane
LWF: Connolly
RWF: Long
ST: McGoldrick

I would probably go along with that team, probably apart from Hourihan. Seems to be the epitemy of "nice footballer" that doesnt really contribute anything

[Eirambler]

I know what you mean. The thing with that team is, if you don't pick him, there's not a huge amount there in terms of delivering set pieces. If Robbie Brady could find some form he would be another option with that though.

Probably set pieces won't be as big a part of our game under Kenny as they were under previous managers. But you only have to look at the greatest goals thread to see how many we've scored from them down the years, so it needs to be taken into consideration.

[samhaydenjr]

I think the timeline of the upcoming games should be taken into account when deciding who to blood in at what point. The first two Nations League games should be viewed as build-up to the Slovakia play-off, especially as they will be the first two games of Kenny's reign, so he may wish to focus on his gameplan more than personnel. So the squad should probably have continuity from Mick's run. Players like Doherty, Egan, Browne, Cullen and a resurgent Hogan all have fewer than ten caps and could do with the game time, as could Randolph, if he doesn't get off the bench for West Ham between now and then. Although you could find some time for Connolly and Obafemi, as they are the most advanced of our young striker quartet, notwithstanding a late run of games for Adam Idah.

If we get knocked out by Slovakia, then experiment away. However, if we get to the play-off final, then the two Nations League games in October 11th and 14th become build-up games for it - although Kenny may want to rest some players for the Wales game, as it would be only three days after the play-off semi.

Complicating matters further are the U21 qualifiers - while it makes sense to include Connolly and Obafemi in the senior squad and leave Parrott and Idah to finish up the campaign they've started, it becomes tricky when you talk about taking Molumby and Knight away, as they will be very important to the chances of the U21s. It may seem a little cynical and unfair, but if there's one young midfielder who we could do with giving a cap to, it may be Will Smallbone.

Other players I would consider for debut caps would be Ryan Manning, off the back of a good season at QPR, Conor Masterson after breaking through there (although he may stay with the 21s) and maybe even Olamide Shodipo, now that he's back playing in The Championship. I also mentioned in the Potentially Eligible Players thread that Kenny should sound out Chiedozie Ogbene's intentions and, if he's interested cap him in one of the Nations League games - am I right in saying that we have no out-and-out right winger currently? If so, Ogbene might fill that gap.

[paul_oshea]

I think it's an appropriate time now for Paul to emerge from his lock down and state emphatically in this thread - most emphatically, which of those kids will make it onto the Irish first team, or just a squad member or just reach the lowest level of football existence - the LOI. No fannying about with fall back clauses.

Ah no we'll leave that to you, we all know how good you are at playing stick or twist. :D

[geysir]

Ah no we'll leave that to you, we all know how good you are at playing stick or twist. :D
Who are the "we"?

[Kingdom]

Kenny's first challenge is to put out to pasture .....Let's review the contenders in order of how close each is to being ready to make the step up to being a regular for the senior team.

It's fair to say that quite a few of our players have threaded water for a while now - either as starters, or as filler. Brady, Hendrick, Hourihane, Duffy - even Randolph from my own perspective, although that could be attributed to being slightly irrational - Judge, O'Dowda, Hogan, Collins, and Browne. For some, it's hard to be selected, for others it's time to **** or get off the pot.

The list below I wouldn't think is non-exhaustive either, I might suggest a couple of other "mature" candidates, who I think could add value in certain situations. It's important to look at Kenny's history, his teams have always played football, and he likes his schemers. I think he's in the enviable position of having a number of both, centrally and out-wide.


Jayson Molumby - Midfielder - 20 - Millwall (On loan from Brighton)
I would put myself up there as Whelan's biggest supporter, but his time is gone. A fit James McCarthy is best placed to sit in there, but it's worth noting that Kenny used a central two with the 21s to good effect, so may continue that with the senior team. If so, I would be very happy to see a JJx2 in there. The boy is calm, composed but he's tenacious as well, and can pick a pass.


Aaron Connolly - Forward - 20 - Brighton
Will Smallbone - Midfielder - 20 - Southampton
Adam Idah - Striker - 19 - Southampton
Jason Knight - Midfielder - 19 - Derby
Troy Parrott - Striker - 18 - Spurs
Michael Obafemi - Striker - 19 - Southampton

The first three will be in the squad, and should be. Of the latter three, Obafemi has the best chance.

I've been scathing of selection policy in the past, probably a little unfairly, but such is life. I think we all have been guilty of looking at a players club and justifying selections based on the scale of the club, rather than the merits of a player in what is a very cliquey english football pyramid.

I believe we have good options open to us. It pains me to see James McClean being selected so often for us, because I think it immediately cedes advantage to the opposition. I fully understand that he works hard, but for me it's a sign that we don't expect to have the ball and that we will funnel back. It would be nice to think that soon we'll have game plan based on keeping the ball, as I think we've the players to do it.

Connor Ronan fits into your young catagory, and should be close to consideration, as does Ronan Curtis, a kid I've a lot of time for. To me he looks like the kinda boy who needs to be told "you have a superstar inside you, let him out, show the world", and I think Kenny is that kind of manager. Graham Carey doesn't fit into that category of young tyro - but should be under consideration too.

They are very similar players, they are creators, and we've lacked any sort of dynanism or creativity outside of McGoldrick. if it's one thing that I'm looking forward to, it's seeing guys being picked in the positions where they can do most damage. We've got - being fair - 4 players who deserve to be in the team without even thinking about it: Coleman, Doherty, Egan & Stevens; the rest are open spaces. It excites me to imagine how he's going to go about fitting them into a side.

Part of me can't get away from the fact that a 3-4-3 or something of that ilk will suit us best. Seamus is doing well defensively, but has lost his ability to get up into the offensive positions effectively. On the flipside Doherty is excellent in sneaking into the attacking positions wide right.

Could Connolly be the one to start wide left, or inside left behind a central striker? I think so. Is Will Smallbone likely to start in the advanced central position? Unlikely for me, as it's where I'd put McGoldrick. But if you're putting Didsy there - and I think it's where you get the best from him - then you've got a big gaping hole up front, and Idah is as good an option as there is there at the moment. James Collins didn't really get an opportunity/isn't good enough; Shane Long we know what he's about/isn't getting much game time; Scott Hogan - f'ck off. That leaves Seanie Maguire, and to be honest, I'd be willing to let Idah get the run.
I've seen him a lot, and he's improving as he goes along. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, any time I see him play, I think Pippo Inzaghi. He's strong, he's quick, he's not technically amazing, but he gets chances. He scores goals. And he gets caught offside a lot.

Our first game is away to a Bulgaria side who, lets be frank here, are as awful as they've ever been. They are absolutely there for the taking, and if we're aggressive with them, then we can get on the front foot quickly. Then Finland. Fi land qualified for Euro2020 essentially by beating Armenia and Liechtenstein home and away, getting a win over Greece and Bosnia. There is absolutely nothing to be fearful of there, and we've set ourselves up for the game with Slovakia, with two games that we couldn't have picked better, if we want to try and introduce new players to the team, new players to the squad, change the playing style and remaining competitive.

I could see Kenny going with a 3-4-3 with
Seamus-duffy-Egan
Doherty-McCarthy-Molumby-Stevens
-- McGoldrick-Connolly
------- ------Idah

I think thats the most you can hope for at the moment starting, but the bench absolutely could contain Smallbone, Obafemi, Ronan, Curtis, Lee O'Connor.

Of course, there is a bigger picture here. and it's this. If these guys (O'Shea, Collins, Knight, O'Connor, Obafemi) aren't ready for the first team squad, then it behoves us to leave them with the 21s who are in an exceptional position. We've never made a 21s finals, and it has hurt us over the years not being competitive at that level, as lads drift. These guys stop playing international football against lads they have equalled at 19s level, and then by the time they are face-to-face at senior level, there is an awe there. Success - true success that lasts - is incremental. reaching a 21s spurs on the 19s to go one step better. We've never faced up to this, and settle for one decent underage side a generation.

[Stuttgart88]

Although "out with the old, in with the new" is the thread title I think it may take a little longer for it to actually happen.

Realistically none of the back 5 will be replaced by anyone younger. If we changed the formation and went 3 / 5 at the back my guess is it'd still favour experienced players like Clark, Coleman and Doherty.

Cullen looks the ready made replacement for Whelan and I expect will come straight in. [Edit: I forgot James McCarthy - though it kind of backs up my main point, which is that the "Kenny's Kids" revolution may be a while away yet]

Dids & Shane Long would be my forwards, possibly with Connolly on the left of a 3. Molumby or Smallbone could find a way into midfield. Smallbone should be capped early tactically. In my opinion there are easily 5-8 players that could become mainstays in the squad rather than the team - Idah, Parrott, Jack Byrne, Obafemi, Masterson, O'Shea, Collins...but a balance has to be found between giving squad experience to players not quite ready for senior international football and not compromising the U21s. Letting the U21s finish the job is really impprtant imho.

I think McClean's time as an automatic starter might be up, with Connolly or Brady gaining his place. Whelan's time will surely be up. Robinson will probably be less close to the starting XI. Hendrick's role less certain but I actually think he could do well under Kenny and I think Brady and he could rediscover their Euro 2016 exuberance under Kenny. Browne probably a bit closer to be a certain starter. So none of this leaves much room for wholesale changes, and few in the direction of youth.

[DeLorean]

Great post Kingdom, although you sound a bit like David O'Leary with all the 'kid' and 'boy' talk (my babies :D).
Would love to see that starting XI.

[ColourfulPeanut]

There seems to be a worrying gap in generations in the team at the moment that will make for a rough transition over the coming years. How many players do we have born between 1993-1998 that are good enough and have come through? Cullen and Browne maybe? It's great having the very young players in the U21s but making sure they bed in slowly is going to be very tricky.

[nigel-harps1954]

Lot of people seem to call for Kenny to go 3-4-3 or 5-3-2 or this sort of craic. He's a 4-3-3 manager, always has been, and I'd be surprised if he changes that.

[samhaydenjr]

There seems to be a worrying gap in generations in the team at the moment that will make for a rough transition over the coming years. How many players do we have born between 1993-1998 that are good enough and have come through? Cullen and Browne maybe? It's great having the very young players in the U21s but making sure they bed in slowly is going to be very tricky.

I don't think it's going to be much of a problem - firstly the 93-98 group also includes Robinson, Curtis, Manning, Williams, Lenihan, Maguire and O'Dowda (may be able to add Sadlier next season) - not overly inspiring but fairly solid. Second (and more importantly), the 90-92 group is pretty strong - Duffy, Stevens, Doherty, K. Long, Christie, Egan, McCarthy, Brady, Hendrick, Hourihane, Hogan - they should all be around for the next two or three campaigns. And thirdly, I don't think we're going to need to wait that much longer for a big group of U21s to merit a call-up, if they haven't already received it - there's probably about a dozen who Kenny could justify playing at some point in the Nations League - In fact you could probably put out the following XI and it wouldn't be ridiculous, as all but one have Premier League or Championship experience:

-------------Travers------------------

O'Shea Masterson Collins T. O'Connor

-----Smallbone Molumby Knight-----

-------Obafemi Idah Connolly-------

[DeLorean]

Lot of people seem to call for Kenny to go 3-4-3 or 5-3-2 or this sort of craic. He's a 4-3-3 manager, always has been, and I'd be surprised if he changes that.

I suppose it'd be nice if he was open to a system that might accommodate getting our best players into the side, without putting square pegs in round holes (might be the case with Coleman above). If he has been that consistent in terms of choosing 4-3-3 over his career though, then you're probably right. Saw a little bit of a discussion with Gary Breen on OFB discussing same, Breen said the wing back formation looks great on paper but can't see Kenny actually doing it. I think his reasoning was more to do with it being more difficult to dominate the ball in midfield, rather than knowing anything about Kenny's preferred formation though.

[Eirambler]

The whole Irish system in recent years has been built around playing 4-3-3 from the youth setup through to the seniors. So I'd imagine that will continue for now.

It's hard to ignore what the likes of Sheffield United are achieving on a limited budget with 3-5-2 though, it looks like a formation coming back into style and could replace 4-3-3 in the same way 4-3-3 replaced 4-4-2 in the last 20 years. It also suits our strengths in the centre back and wing back position.

[nigel-harps1954]

Seems to me that 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 only serves to suit putting both Doherty and Coleman in the team.

It might work for Sheff utd, but there's no guarantees it'll work for Ireland.

[DeLorean]

The 3-5-2 does appear to have a sell by date too, even for teams who have had success with it initially. I remember Roy Evans using it to good effect at Liverpool for a while, with McAteer one of the wing backs, but it was gradually figured out and exposed by opposing sides. Similar with Martin O'Neill at Celtic, he eventually changed to four at the back too despite winning a lot of trophies with 3-5-2.

[ColourfulPeanut]

3-5-2 suits us for many reasons really. Doherty, Egan, Clarke and Stephens have all excelled in the formation at Premier League level. Obviously would allow also potentially allow us play Coleman and Doherty together as well. Would really let us tap into the depth we have at centre back as well. McGoldrick plays better in a 2 as well and wouldn't be so isolated, while also having the ability to drop into midfield to recieve the ball which he's quite good at.

It makes too much sense not to at least try it.

[nigel-harps1954]

3-5-2 suits us for many reasons really. Doherty, Egan, Clarke and Stephens have all excelled in the formation at Premier League level. Obviously would allow also potentially allow us play Coleman and Doherty together as well. Would really let us tap into the depth we have at centre back as well. McGoldrick plays better in a 2 as well and wouldn't be so isolated, while also having the ability to drop into midfield to recieve the ball which he's quite good at.

It makes too much sense not to at least try it.

In one breath you suggest strength in depth at centre half, in the next you suggest both Coleman and Doherty fit into the system. Which strongly performing centre half do you drop to fit Coleman into your system?

Also, why would McGoldrick be isolated in a 3 man attack?

[Olé Olé]

On the McGoldrick question, I felt that under Mick when we went with a 4-3-3 it turned into a 4-5-1 quite quickly. We had James McClean playing on the left and reverting to type as a winger. Robbie Brady ended up on the touchline too when he played wide forward. Our men always appeared to be too far away from McGoldrick.

I don't think we need to go 3-5-2. And I don't think we will. Am I correct in saying that 3 teams play that formation in the PL- Wolves Sheffield United and Brighton? It just so happens that Doherty and Stevens are two of the 6 first choice options at the three clubs.

[Eirambler]

Well Egan and Clarke both generally play left of the three centre backs so only playing one of them alongside Duffy and Coleman probably makes sense. However if you wanted three out and out centre backs you could move one of them across to the right of the three, probably Egan. That's a position that would also suit Dara O'Shea. So there is depth there.

Doherty and Stevens would both continue in their club positions where they have excelled this year. Having three centre backs inside them seems to suit both as they do both have some defensive frailties. I don't think Ryan Manning could ever be an international quality left back but the left wing back position seems to suit him a lot better. So again, depth in both wing back positions.

Central midfield is still a three so no change there either way really. Up front the formation probably doesn't suit the likes of Connolly who I see as being better on the left of a three man forward line so that's potentially a drawback. Otherwise I couldn't see Long having an issue playing it and McGoldrick already plays the system at club level.

I think Kenny will be sticking with 4-3-3 to start with but, while it's harder to chop and change at international level than with a club team, I still think it would be worth looking at 3-5-2 at some stage as it might be a useful alternative for us.

[Olé Olé]

Is Egan not almost always at the centre of the three centre backs?

[nigel-harps1954]

Well Egan and Clarke both generally play left of the three centre backs so only playing one of them alongside Duffy and Coleman probably makes sense. However if you wanted three out and out centre backs you could move one of them across to the right of the three, probably Egan. That's a position that would also suit Dara O'Shea. So there is depth there.

Doherty and Stevens would both continue in their club positions where they have excelled this year. Having three centre backs inside them seems to suit both as they do both have some defensive frailties. I don't think Ryan Manning could ever be an international quality left back but the left wing back position seems to suit him a lot better. So again, depth in both wing back positions.

Central midfield is still a three so no change there either way really. Up front the formation probably doesn't suit the likes of Connolly who I see as being better on the left of a three man forward line so that's potentially a drawback. Otherwise I couldn't see Long having an issue playing it and McGoldrick already plays the system at club level.

I think Kenny will be sticking with 4-3-3 to start with but, while it's harder to chop and change at international level than with a club team, I still think it would be worth looking at 3-5-2 at some stage as it might be a useful alternative for us.

Absolutely, remains a useful alternative. But I think we focus far too much on the defensive side of our squad rather than the attacking. The 4-3-3 system has huge advantages for what's coming through in Irish football.

Imagine a forward line of Connolly - Long - Obafemi, or alternatively Connolly - Idah - McGoldrick.

You have midfield options in abundance. Molumby - McCarthy - Hendrick, Hourihane - Byrne - Browne, Smallbone - Cullen - Arter.

Instead of focusing on what strong 3 man centre halves we have, make them all fight for two places. Ensure there's a fight between Coleman and Doherty for right back, Stevens/Brady/Manning for left back.

Currently, the only thing that worries me is our goalkeeping situation as Randolph has been frozen out of the West Ham team since joining. Travers isn't getting game time, Westwood seems to have dropped off the face of the planet, O'Hara has an uncertain future, and the rest of the available goalkeepers are still effectively youth team players.

[tetsujin1979]

Westwood was dropped by the manager earlier in the season, and he's clarified the situation on Twitter
1229349583580487680

[ColourfulPeanut]

In one breath you suggest strength in depth at centre half, in the next you suggest both Coleman and Doherty fit into the system. Which strongly performing centre half do you drop to fit Coleman into your system?

Also, why would McGoldrick be isolated in a 3 man attack?
Coleman could be included in the central 3 as an option or as a back-up to Doherty, which would increase our depth.

Our 4-3-3 isn't really a 4-3-3 when we played under Mick as already stated, McGoldrick was very isolated in the games he played for us. Mainly the system would allow us to get the most out of our strengths and our best player in Doherty.

[elatedscum]

Is Egan not almost always at the centre of the three centre backs? Yep

3-5-2 in my mind is the hardest system to implement. It requires time and repetition. Particularly in international football, you just don’t get the time to really drill the system into players and there’s probably more fluctuations from game to game with players injured, losing form etc than there would be at club level.

Defensively: It requires good decision making and mobility from your left and right centre halves. They’ll get pulled into the gaps that the fullback normally covers and it’s easy to concede and get torn apart and overstretched if you’re making the wrong decisions. Clark definitely has the mobility and speed to play as one of the wide centre halves, Duffy you’d imagine would have to play in the centre as he’s the least able to turn quickly and the centre would probably suit as he’s the best organiser. Egan probably also suits the centre best but probably would be able to slide across. You’d really have to question how good Coleman would be playing right of centre, would he give you more than Egan or Duffy or Clarke?

At worst, with a badly prepared side against an intelligent and fluid opposition, it’s like against Mexico in that Friendly in 2017. (Totally overwhelmed, trying to put out fires everywhere)

It requires legs from the wing backs, there is a huge owness (spelling?) on them to get up and down the pitch all game, to both be a support for the midfielders, attackers and cover for the defenders.

Less of a concern for us, as we know that both Stevens and Doherty are comfortable there...

If things don’t go well or the side is lacking confidence, that 3-5-2 quickly becomes 5-3-2. See late late era O’Neill - 0-0 v Denmark, home and away, 0-1 v Wales. And it becomes the most defensive of systems. Centre halves demanding cover from the wing backs, camped in our own half etc etc.

You obviously take wingers out of selection. 5 years ago, you’d worry about McClean being removed from the equation - but we probably have less true quality natural wingers at the moment than in any time recently. One of the biggest mistakes managers make in this system is shoehorning wingers into the centre to facilitate their inclusion. See that same game against Mexico: Christie and McClean as wing backs, Hourihane, Horgan and O’Dowda in the centre!

When 4-4–2 was in vogue, the one advantage that 3-5-2 gave was the extra man in midfield which made it much more easy to control the midfield. But 4-3-3 kinda negates that. I guess maybe going man for man up top, or having a free roaming player like McGoldrick sometimes does for Sheffield.

Given the overall lack of goals that we score, I’m not really sure removing one attacking player is ideal. I’d probably be of the belief that, in the 70% of games where both players are available, you’re better either one or the other. And if Stevens is injured or suspended, you either play Brady or Coleman or Doherty on the left.

[elatedscum]

Currently, the only thing that worries me is our goalkeeping situation as Randolph has been frozen out of the West Ham team since joining. Travers isn't getting game time, Westwood seems to have dropped off the face of the planet, O'Hara has an uncertain future, and the rest of the available goalkeepers are still effectively youth team players.

You would worry. The only positive is that Randolph has played well in the past with reduced game time. Maybe Westwood or Elliott could establish themselves at a good championship club next season. Don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Don’t think any of Travers, O’Hara, Kelleher or Talbot have eradicated the mistakes of youth from their game. If it was me, from what I’ve seen, I’d be looking at Sean McDermott and Max O’Leary as backups to Randolph. I haven’t seen a huge amount of their games but they were both very impressive in the games that I’ve seen.

[nigel-harps1954]

Coleman could be included in the central 3 as an option or as a back-up to Doherty, which would increase our depth.

Our 4-3-3 isn't really a 4-3-3 when we played under Mick as already stated, McGoldrick was very isolated in the games he played for us. Mainly the system would allow us to get the most out of our strengths and our best player in Doherty.

Why would you refer to a Mick McCarthy setup of 4-3-3 when talking about a different manager with an entirely different setup, different mainframe, and a more positive outlook in terms of how to set up his squad?

McCarthy, O'Neill, and Trap all approached games with Ireland as "we don't have the players". Kenny will go into games as he has done with Dundalk in Europe, and the under-21s, with the positive opinion of "why can't we go at them?"

[Kingdom]

In one breath you suggest strength in depth at centre half, in the next you suggest both Coleman and Doherty fit into the system. Which strongly performing centre half do you drop to fit Coleman into your system?
I think we've


Also, why would McGoldrick be isolated in a 3 man attack?
A few people here have referred to Ireland managers recently picking players only to sabotage that player with where they have been selected. McGoldrick is an example of this. He is a lovely football, very clever, and is clearly the one player tasked with making things happen under the last manager. the problem was selecting him as a 9. He's best placed to dropping back to receive the ball and running at the space between midfield and defence. Selecting as the totem, automatically put us on the back foot. It's one of the most frustating selection policies of recent times. It was akin to tieing an arm behind a boxers back.


I felt that under Mick when we went with a 4-3-3 it turned into a 4-5-1 quite quickly.
When have we ever played a true 4-3-3? We've never done it. We always revert to a 4-5-1. Agree completely with you.

I don't think we need to go 3-5-2. And I don't think we will. Am I correct in saying that 3 teams play that formation in the PL- Wolves Sheffield United and Brighton? It just so happens that Doherty and Stevens are two of the 6 first choice options at the three clubs.[/QUOTE]


Yep

3-5-2 in my mind is the hardest system to implement. It requires time and repetition. Particularly in international football, you just don’t get the time to really drill the system into players and there’s probably more fluctuations from game to game with players injured, losing form etc than there would be at club level.

Defensively: It requires good decision making and mobility from your left and right centre halves. They’ll get pulled into the gaps that the fullback normally covers and it’s easy to concede and get torn apart and overstretched if you’re making the wrong decisions. Clark definitely has the mobility and speed to play as one of the wide centre halves, Duffy you’d imagine would have to play in the centre as he’s the least able to turn quickly and the centre would probably suit as he’s the best organiser. Egan probably also suits the centre best but probably would be able to slide across. You’d really have to question how good Coleman would be playing right of centre, would he give you more than Egan or Duffy or Clarke?

At worst, with a badly prepared side against an intelligent and fluid opposition, it’s like against Mexico in that Friendly in 2017. (Totally overwhelmed, trying to put out fires everywhere)

It requires legs from the wing backs, there is a huge owness (spelling?) on them to get up and down the pitch all game, to both be a support for the midfielders, attackers and cover for the defenders.

Less of a concern for us, as we know that both Stevens and Doherty are comfortable there...

If things don’t go well or the side is lacking confidence, that 3-5-2 quickly becomes 5-3-2. See late late era O’Neill - 0-0 v Denmark, home and away, 0-1 v Wales. And it becomes the most defensive of systems. Centre halves demanding cover from the wing backs, camped in our own half etc etc.

You obviously take wingers out of selection. 5 years ago, you’d worry about McClean being removed from the equation - but we probably have less true quality natural wingers at the moment than in any time recently. One of the biggest mistakes managers make in this system is shoehorning wingers into the centre to facilitate their inclusion. See that same game against Mexico: Christie and McClean as wing backs, Hourihane, Horgan and O’Dowda in the centre!

When 4-4–2 was in vogue, the one advantage that 3-5-2 gave was the extra man in midfield which made it much more easy to control the midfield. But 4-3-3 kinda negates that. I guess maybe going man for man up top, or having a free roaming player like McGoldrick sometimes does for Sheffield.

Given the overall lack of goals that we score, I’m not really sure removing one attacking player is ideal. I’d probably be of the belief that, in the 70% of games where both players are available, you’re better either one or the other. And if Stevens is injured or suspended, you either play Brady or Coleman or Doherty on the left.
Super post. I would debate some of it, but it's a class post.


You would worry. The only positive is that Randolph has played well in the past with reduced game time. Maybe Westwood or Elliott could establish themselves at a good championship club next season. Don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Don’t think any of Travers, O’Hara, Kelleher or Talbot have eradicated the mistakes of youth from their game. If it was me, from what I’ve seen, I’d be looking at Sean McDermott and Max O’Leary as backups to Randolph. I haven’t seen a huge amount of their games but they were both very impressive in the games that I’ve seen.

I've furrowed a lone plough on this. We've a blind spot with goalkeepers, and have had for a long while in my opinion. We see the spectacular saves, but the nuts and bolts....
I'll just say this. I think Darren Randolph is the reason for a lot of our woes in the last couple of years. I've no axe to grind, I don't dislike him, but for me his positioning is poor, he's weak in the box, and we've conceded some very poor goals. That aside, the biggest gripe I have, is that he forces us 10-15 yds further back the pitch, than up the pitch, and it kills us. It drags the midfield further back to keep the link with defence, and then a knock-on effect on the teams overall position. And when you're a team that constantly gives the ball to the opposition, that 15 yd retreat is a killer. I'm not making this up, I'm not imagining it, look at games over the last 5 years. It's not about having our keeper becoming Ederson or spraying balls around the pitch, but it's about being that bit more aggressive in the set-up. This is something that Kenny has implemented with the 21s, and I'm certain it will continue.


McCarthy, O'Neill, and Trap all approached games with Ireland as "we don't have the players". Kenny will go into games as he has done with Dundalk in Europe, and the under-21s, with the positive opinion of "why can't we go at them?"
Agree totally nidge. Kenny has spoken of this a lot. but ironically I think it's this mentality, aligned with what he's mentioned about some of our players already, that leads me to think he could

As I (think I) said earlier, he's going to look to get the best from Doherty and Stevens. They both play in wide-roles, although Doherty is a touch more advanced than Stevens. Assuming he plays to this, he's either going to go with a 3-5-2, or possibly a 3-4-3.
My logic for the 3 defenders - and I will concede happily that he's never played that style before (maybe a bit with Bohs in the EUropean season) - is that he clearly wants us on the ball and to be more aggressive in taking the game to the opposition. Any time I've seen us attempt a 3 at the back, it hasn't been accompanied by a game-plan to keep the football. We have some good footballing options at the back, and one who is glaringly unsuitable to it. Stevens, Egan and Coleman are all adept at taking the ball out from the back.
Seamus simply isn't able to get up and down the pitch to the extent that Stephen Kenny is going to want from his full-backs. The fact that he nailed his colours to the mast on day one and called him captain suggests to me he's going to be a starter, and that's fine by me.

The overriding concern with this current Irish team is goals. Kenny has to resolve keeping solidity at the back, with fashioning chances and getting us playing further up the pitch together as a team. We simply don't score enough goals as a team, nor do we have a player at any level who is banging them in. Adam Idah is a goalscorer. Matt Doherty is someone who gets into positions to score goals, and is a throwback to players. I think it's fair to think how he's going to set up to get the most from players who can get goals from the team.

I probably have derailed this thread a bit considering it was about the influx of young players.

[backstothewall]

There's an awful lot of debate here about the merits of 3-5-2 vs 4-3-3. It's all very interesting, but there is a best of both worlds option that should be considered. Especialy with the players we have.

3-4-3


------------------ Randolph -----------------
----- Coleman ---- Duffy ----- Egan -------
Doherty - Molumby - Hourihane - Stevens
---- Obafemi - McGoldrick - Connolly -----

We have an absolute abundance of riches with this system. We can name an entire 2nd XI where the reserves are arguably more experienced that the first XI

--------------- Travers --------------
---- Long --- Lenihan --- Clark ----
Christie - Hendrick - Cullen - Brady
-- O'Dowda - Hogan - Robinson ---

And we can still have the likes of Idah, Cullen, Browne, Smallbone, Manning, McClean and Byrne to call on even if none of the less obvious youth prospects make it.

When international football comes back, nobody will have either familiarity among their squad or an established group of players to fall back on. I think we should throw caution to the wind and pick a squad with only a handfull of players who need to shave every day. Everyone is going to be a year older, and nobody like facing youngsters at the best of times, never mind after a year long layoff when tactiucal systems have become foggy memories and old joints have had time to calcify.

I say let the kids have at it.

[Eirambler]

I think one of two things would happen with that 3-4-3 formation. Either 1) we'd play all out 3-4-3 and be overrun in midfield with too many wide players or 2) McGoldrick would drop back and play as a 10 - then it's effectively a 3-5-2 again.

[paul_oshea]

Kenny's first challenge is to put out to pasture some of those great servants of Irish football over the years who unfortunately are past their best or just never had a sufficient level of ability to be consistent performers at International level.

Luckily we have a glut of potential talent coming through to replace them. The question I wish to pose is which players are ready to make the step up to be first team regulars in time for the play-offs in October and which if we were to qualify could become regulars by the time the finals were to begin next year.

Let's review the contenders in order of how close each is to being ready to make the step up to being a regular for the senior team.

Jayson Molumby - Midfielder - 20 - Millwall (On loan from Brighton)
Coming to then end of his breakthrough season on loan to Millwall where he has been one of their standout performers. He is perhaps the only player in this list that is already ready to be a first team Irish International. A box to box midfielder with bundles of energy, strong in the tackle and an eye for a pass he must be considered a capable replacement for the aging Glenn Whelan.

Will Smallbone - Midfielder - 20 - Southampton
Has now become a regular in a very decent Southampton midfield, occasionally starting but also making appearances from the bench. One of the nominees along with Idah and Connolly for U23 player of the year last season he has looked the most comfortable of the three when playing in the Premiership. A more creative midfielder than Molumby he may offer the flair our midfield has so often lacked in recent years. If he continues to progress with Southampton he should be given a chance in the next set of friendlies in place of Hourihane who is often found wanting at the top level of football.

Aaron Connolly - Forward - 20 - Brighton
Connolly has often struggled to find chances and goals to come by in a poor Brighton team despite an impressive number of appearances. How much of that is his fault and how much of it is due to the inability of his midfielders to impose themselves on the game is debatable but bar the occasional flash of class he has often failed to justify his place in the team. Personally I think he looks very raw and currently lacks the strength and awareness of what’s going on around him to be successful in the Premiership but with Shane Long and Callum Robinson also not pulling up any trees for their respective clubs he should be at least be considered as an option come October.

Michael Obafemi - Striker - 19 - Southampton
Another striker who has notched up a considerable amount of appearances for his club this season, he has scored 3 goals across all competitions for Southampton. Quick and strong he at least has the basic attributes to succeed at the top but he has been criticized by his own manager for often going missing in games and he suffers from the same issues as Connolly regarding his lack of awareness. As with Connolly these limitations can be rectified as he gets more experience but even so with a lack of decent alternatives he should at least be considered an option for the next set of friendlies.

Adam Idah - Striker - 19 - Southampton
Of the forwards mentioned here Idah has improved the most throughout the season. If he gets more minutes for an almost relegated Norwich he could easily overtake both Obafemi and Connolly as a viable alternative to our current forward options for the play off games. He has the physicality that Connolly lacks and a higher workrate than Obafemi. He also looks to have a more clinical edge than both.

Jason Knight - Midfielder - 19 - Derby
Has been a regular performer all season for a very decent Derby team pushing for a play-off place in the Championship. He lacks consistency but is highly thought of by the Derby fans and has bagged 3 goals this term. Can play anywhere across the midfield and started on the left in Derby’s last match so perhaps he could soon be considered as a replacement for the very limited McClean.

Troy Parrott - Striker - 18 - Spurs
A disappointing season for Parrott after his fine pre-season form suggested he may be ready for some first team appearances. Unfortunately Mourinho has not given him the chances he needs and perhaps a loan move would be best for him for next season. On paper he looks the most promising of all our young strikers and if he hits the ground running early next season either at Spurs or on loan at a Championship club then he should be considered for the Irish team.

I agree with this post.

[paul_oshea]

Who are the "we"?

You and all the others misinterpreting players statements down through the years, with an unfounded belief of some foresight others didn't have.

[paul_oshea]

Of the back 3 mentioned mostly on here, I am a little concerned about us getting caught for pace, bar coleman, who is 32 we dont have any real pace there. We do look setup to counter, but it reminds me of the way Kenny setup out in Cyprus with Dundalk that time and conceded 3 soft goals that shouldn't have been conceded.

I can't see any changes before the nations league in terms of new blood coming into the first 11. Perhaps if Mccarthy doesnt make it, midfield being forced Molumby could be thrown in, but all the murmurings from Kenny suggest that he is still looking at old hat. Arter seems to be doing ok at the moment, and if fulham were to go up hes back playing premiership football.

As YI said a lot of players mentioned there but none really ready, as most have now learnt this year with all the Parrot call ups being unwarranted really, and Connolly not having found his level, yet anyways.

One thing i have been thinking about is do many scouts go around the u21 championships looking at players? or is it seen as the last chance saloon?

[paul_oshea]

The 3-5-2 does appear to have a sell by date too, even for teams who have had success with it initially. I remember Roy Evans using it to good effect at Liverpool for a while, with McAteer one of the wing backs, but it was gradually figured out and exposed by opposing sides. Similar with Martin O'Neill at Celtic, he eventually changed to four at the back too despite winning a lot of trophies with 3-5-2.

Everything has its sell by date, every tactic or system has, and then gets reinvented or repurposed in another X number of years.

[nigel-harps1954]

Stephen Kenny has effectively said today in a press briefing that Will Smallbone will continue with the under-21s for now and not the senior squad.


Also this:

1280818391679451137

[Eirambler]

I've got to say I don't agree with the Smallbone position. I know he'd be skipping the queue a bit to get capped but the bottom line is he's a dual national, not Irish born and playing in the Premier League so there is a risk of losing him.

Rice didn't appear to be a flight risk until he was, and then he left. Obafemi was correctly fast tracked into the Nations League squad last time to nullify the risk. We need to defend our position in these cases and the way to do that is to cap Smallbone in the autumn.

[nigel-harps1954]

I've got to say I don't agree with the Smallbone position. I know he'd be skipping the queue a bit to get capped but the bottom line is he's a dual national, not Irish born and playing in the Premier League so there is a risk of losing him.

Rice didn't appear to be a flight risk until he was, and then he left. Obafemi was correctly fast tracked into the Nations League squad last time to nullify the risk. We need to defend our position in these cases and the way to do that is to cap Smallbone in the autumn.

Kenny laid out his stall from the very first press conference in saying "I only want players who want to play for Ireland."

If Smallbone has a question of playing for England in his head, he won't be wanted. It'll be that simple. It's firmly putting the ball in his court and is the right decision. Fast-tracking a player into the squad and jumping over others in the process is not fair to already committed players. Smallbone has played a total of 5 Premier League games, two of them as a sub for a couple of minutes. His time will come.

[paul_oshea]

I've got to say I don't agree with the Smallbone position. I know he'd be skipping the queue a bit to get capped but the bottom line is he's a dual national, not Irish born and playing in the Premier League so there is a risk of losing him.

Rice didn't appear to be a flight risk until he was, and then he left. Obafemi was correctly fast tracked into the Nations League squad last time to nullify the risk. We need to defend our position in these cases and the way to do that is to cap Smallbone in the autumn.

I agree with this.

I might eat my words, thinking of carsley when i say this, but when a player comes on with 5 mins or so to go in a position like smallbones, even in a competitive game hes hardly going to cause any great problem and concede us a goal. That whole argument is null and void. That said if we are losing a game and need a goal then I wouldnt suggest bringing him on, unless we are losing by a lot.

THe irony in Nigels "His time will come." Its like the Old Brigade on "hes ours to lose". That expression was wholly wrong. The expression should have read "He's Englands. Until he's Irelands".

[nigel-harps1954]

I agree with this.

I might eat my words, thinking of carsley when i say this, but when a player comes on with 5 mins or so to go in a position like smallbones, even in a competitive game hes hardly going to cause any great problem and concede us a goal. That whole argument is null and void. That said if we are losing a game and need a goal then I wouldnt suggest bringing him on, unless we are losing by a lot.

THe irony in Nigels "His time will come." Its like the Old Brigade on "hes ours to lose". That expression was wholly wrong. The expression should have read "He's Englands. Until he's Irelands".

Why would he be Englands? He's already in the Irish setup. To the best of my knowledge, he's never been in any England squad at any level.

[DeLorean]

Everything has its sell by date, every tactic or system has, and then gets reinvented or repurposed in another X number of years.

I wasn't talking about the evolution of football tactics/formations generally. I mean teams tend to implement the 3-5-2 for a period and then move away from it, even with the same players.

[Eirambler]

Why would he be Englands? He's already in the Irish setup. To the best of my knowledge, he's never been in any England squad at any level.

Neither had Rice to my knowledge. He had been with us since under 16, played 20+ times for us at various levels and then left because we hadn't competitively capped him.

Similar to Rice, Smallbone isn't ours until he's ours. We could eliminate all doubt this Autumn.

[Kingdom]

Neither had Rice to my knowledge. He had been with us since under 16, played 20+ times for us at various levels and then left because he wanted to.

Similar to Rice, Smallbone isn't ours until he's ours. We could eliminate all doubt this Autumn if he wants to.

I've changed your statement. If he wants to play for Ireland, he'll play for Ireland when we pick him at 21s and at seniors. If he doesn't want to play for us, he won't.
I'm done with these situations now. We - all of us, through badgering Oneill - put Obafemi in a position where he had to release a statement saying unequivocally that he would declare for us before we capped him against Denmark 2 years ago.

Fully in faith with Kenny on this. Will Smallbone is a fantastic player, and will be of huge use to the 21s this year especially if Molumby, Ronan and Connolly are with the Seniors.

If he plays with the 21s for this year, he'll be playing with the seniors in a year. If he doesn't play with the 21s he would never have played with us.

[Kingdom]

I think one of two things would happen with that 3-4-3 formation. Either 1) we'd play all out 3-4-3 and be overrun in midfield with too many wide players or 2) McGoldrick would drop back and play as a 10 - then it's effectively a 3-5-2 again.

We really need to stop this notion that playing didsy as the central/advanced striker of a 3 is helpful to the team. It's not, it's unhelpful.

[Charlie Darwin]

I've got to say I don't agree with the Smallbone position. I know he'd be skipping the queue a bit to get capped but the bottom line is he's a dual national, not Irish born and playing in the Premier League so there is a risk of losing him.

Rice didn't appear to be a flight risk until he was, and then he left. Obafemi was correctly fast tracked into the Nations League squad last time to nullify the risk. We need to defend our position in these cases and the way to do that is to cap Smallbone in the autumn.
Obafemi wasn't fast-tracked though, was he? O'Neill started spreading rumours about him for some weird reason and he had to point out that he's committed.

[Eirambler]

I've changed your statement. If he wants to play for Ireland, he'll play for Ireland when we pick him at 21s and at seniors. If he doesn't want to play for us, he won't.


It's nowhere near as straight forward as that, and hopefully most people see that.

Firstly, if we call up Smallbone (or anyone else) to the Nations League squad in the autumn and that player says no, that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. In that case it's clear the player is not fully committed to us and we can move on. It also frees up a space in the Under 21 squad for a player who is committed to playing for us, which is more important than success at under 21 level.

Secondly, the "If he wants to play for Ireland, he'll play for Ireland whenever we pick him, if he doesn't want to play for us, he won't" approach shows that some people have learned nothing from the Declan Rice saga. Rice was happy to play for us until he was put under heavy pressure to play for England. But if we had capped him competitively earlier England would have never come sniffing after him and he would have continued happily playing for Ireland.

Therefore there is a distinct advantage in fast tracking dual national players that are progressing quickly at club level. It's beneficial to both country and player - the country confirms the nationality of the player while the player no longer has to deal with the pressure and sensitivity of the situation, the decision is made and they can move on.

Instead, some would rather learn nothing from past experience and sleep walk us into losing more players that would have been happy to play for us if we had handled their situation better.

[DeLorean]

That's a fair post bar maybe the last bit. I think it's perfectly reasonable for 'some' to be of the opinion that a player shouldn't be fast tracked just to tie them. It really is very unfair on those non-duals who are more deserving of selection at that moment in time. But I can see both arguments for sure, with the way we've been burned in the recent past.

And yes, I think Kingdom's argument is too simplistic for the reasons you've highlighted. Wales have a far more ruthless approach and it's serving them well. We'll never know for sure how many of their England qualified players would have deflected/chose England if they weren't tied down so early, but there is something to be said for not taking that chance (or at least finding out early where their head is at).

[paul_oshea]

It's nowhere near as straight forward as that, and hopefully most people see that.

Firstly, if we call up Smallbone (or anyone else) to the Nations League squad in the autumn and that player says no, that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. In that case it's clear the player is not fully committed to us and we can move on. It also frees up a space in the Under 21 squad for a player who is committed to playing for us, which is more important than success at under 21 level.

Secondly, the "If he wants to play for Ireland, he'll play for Ireland whenever we pick him, if he doesn't want to play for us, he won't" approach shows that some people have learned nothing from the Declan Rice saga. Rice was happy to play for us until he was put under heavy pressure to play for England. But if we had capped him competitively earlier England would have never come sniffing after him and he would have continued happily playing for Ireland.

Therefore there is a distinct advantage in fast tracking dual national players that are progressing quickly at club level. It's beneficial to both country and player - the country confirms the nationality of the player while the player no longer has to deal with the pressure and sensitivity of the situation, the decision is made and they can move on.

Instead, some would rather learn nothing from past experience and sleep walk us into losing more players that would have been happy to play for us if we had handled their situation better.

100%. people aren't learning from past mistakes, perhaps they haven't owned up to them just yet.

I don't get this unfair argument? IF that player gets 1 cap and the other player gets 0 caps, we haven't missed out. If that player gets 1 cap and the other player gets 50 caps he hasn't missed out and we havent either. IF that player gets 0 caps and the other player gets 1 cap, then we have missed out.