Out with the old, in with the new

[DeLorean]

You don't get that it's unfair to select a player who's a flight risk, for that sole purpose, ahead of somebody who is more deserving/ready at that point in time? Well, then I can't help you.

But, like I say, I can see both sides, especially now that the Nations League is such a convenient way of tying a player, if they're willing of course.

I do agree with Kingdom that I'd tend to trust SK's judgement on this. I feel, even by default, he'll manage these situations better than his predecessors, as he's going to be more willing to select players earlier and approach the whole thing more tactfully.

[youngirish]

I see Dara O'Shea had another good performance starting for West Brom yesterday on the right side of defence. Scored a goal too. If he keeps his place until the end of the season then he at least must be worth a squad place in September/October.

[Kingdom]

It's nowhere near as straight forward as that, and hopefully most people see that.
It also frees up a space in the Under 21 squad for a player who is committed to playing for us, which is more important than success at under 21 level.

Honestly, I think the last part of your sentence sums up one of the big flaws with Irish football. We've skipped over constantly possibly the most important grade in underage football forever. We've made one appointment in that grade that has been positive, it coincided with a great group of players, and it has resulted in us being genuine contenders to qualify for that tournament for the first time ever. Success in this grade - relative success - is absolutely vital. Smallbone appears to be a very very talented kid, and has been magnificent for the 19s up to now. If Will Smallbone isn't entirely sure about committing to Ireland, I am quite content for him to graduate to continue playing for the 21s, as he will be important to that group if Connolly and Molumby are promoted.
If Will Smallbone, by playing for the 21s, contributes positively to Dara O'Shea, Caoimhin Kelleher, Lee O'Connor, Nathan Collins, Conor Coventry, Troy Parrott, Jason Knight, Tyreke Wright, Danny Mandriou and all these guys, playing in an Under 21s European finals, and competing at elite level of 21s football, which contributes positively to their careers, and subsequently declares for England, then I consider that to be more important than him playing for the last 3 minutes away to Bulgaria in the hope of capping him, or indeed more important than naming him in the senior squad only for him to refuse over unsuredness, and not even accept a 21s call-up.


Secondly, the "If he wants to play for Ireland, he'll play for Ireland whenever we pick him, if he doesn't want to play for us, he won't" approach shows that some people have learned nothing from the Declan Rice saga. Rice was happy to play for us until he was put under heavy pressure to play for England.
I can't recall how many senior qualifier squads Declan Rice was named in, that he turned up for. How many was it? Same with Grealish.


But if we had capped him competitively earlier England would have never come sniffing after him and he would have continued happily playing for Ireland.

If we'd capped him competitively, England couldn't have come after him! However, by all accounts, referenced here, for a long time now, pre-Rice, England have been tracking our shadowing of 2gers and 3gers. We are u


Therefore there is a distinct advantage in fast tracking dual national players that are progressing quickly at club level. It's beneficial to both country and player - the country confirms the nationality of the player while the player no longer has to deal with the pressure and sensitivity of the situation, the decision is made and they can move on.

I'm of the opinion, that if you do that, a) you make a laughing stock of your senior national team, and b) you end up alienating other dual-nationalists because it'll become quite clear that players are being capped on potential, rather than merit, in order to secure their status.
I'm not that insecure, and thankfully it looks like Stephen Kenny isn't either.

Instead, some would rather learn nothing from past experience and sleep walk us into losing more players that would have been happy to play for us if we had handled their situation better.[/QUOTE]

yerra, good luck to you, you're as entitled to your opinion as mine, but to me the above is a crock of ****. I want players picked for the squad today, who deserve to be in the squad today. Will Smallbone, shouldn't, absolutely shouldn't, be in our national senior squad now. The 21s are the best place for him now.

[Kingdom]

100%. people aren't learning from past mistakes, perhaps they haven't owned up to them just yet.

I don't get this unfair argument? IF that player gets 1 cap and the other player gets 0 caps, we haven't missed out. If that player gets 1 cap and the other player gets 50 caps he hasn't missed out and we havent either. IF that player gets 0 caps and the other player gets 1 cap, then we have missed out.

Maybe some people are just a little too precious about our own pool of players, and the perceived strength of those we could be losing out on? It should be about whether the guy is deserving of it now!

Southampton underage players.....not Dortmund, not Barcelona, not PSG, Southampton. And the real crux of the matter here, is - whether anyone will admit this or not i don't know, and frankly dont care - because it's England. Not Scotland, not Luxembourg or Finland, but England.

Can I use two comparisons:
1) Jack Grealish vs Aiden McGeady:
Aiden McGeady played underage football for us very early in his career. Played all the way up, could have left, and didn't. His link to Ireland you could argue was less solid than Grealish. No pressure put on to cap him too early.
What the **** has Jack Grealish done in his football career to justify losing our **** over him?
2) Declan Rice vs James McCarthy:
The same applies here. Declan Rice, at the moment, is a competent professional footballer. The hype is over the top on both sides of the water, and was at a time when Nationalism in England was beginning to become a thorny issue.

Paul O'Shea is constantly hammering everyone left right and centre on all forms of internet based communications for irish fans getting excited about young players, yet here, in this example, the opposite is the case: we're fools if we're comfortable with keeping a modicum of self-respect by naming prematuraly ejaculating a green jersey over some kid who just happens to be born in England.

It's the game we play by having a divisive, torn, and frankly schoolboy and domestic setup for generations that offloaded underage responsibility to the highest bidder in England, and also due to our nearly unique situation in terms of diaspora.

[Kingdom]

maybe with Eirambler, I should try and clarify something with you.

Are you saying that we should just go and cap SMallbone immediately to prevent him from leaving for England, partly because not capping Rice and Grealish when they were 18 is what created the situation that allowed both of them align with England?
But didn't irish managers in the past try to name Declan Rice and Jack Grealish in senior squads - and Liam Kelly and Dan Crowley - only for them to refuse the call-up? Oneill certainly had one squad announcement postponed due to it.

So, in a sense, they wouldn't have allowed themselves to be capped at senior level anyway!

[paul_oshea]

You don't get that it's unfair to select a player who's a flight risk, for that sole purpose, ahead of somebody who is more deserving/ready at that point in time? Well, then I can't help you.



I think youre missing the point here, if that player is ready and deserving, hell get his chance, regardless of smallbone playing a meaningless 5 minutes at the end of a competitive game.

The question to ask really , is he happy to sit on the bench?

[Kingdom]

I think youre missing the point here, if that player is ready and deserving, hell get his chance, regardless of smallbone playing a meaningless 5 minutes at the end of a competitive game.
You could argue the last 5 mins of a competitive Ireland match is the most important when you consider the last few years anyway :-)

The question to ask really , is he happy to sit on the bench?[/QUOTE]

Smallbone, or 'random-deserving-but-not-eligible-for-other-countries-higher-ranked-than-us' player?

[paul_oshea]

Paul O'Shea is constantly hammering everyone left right and centre on all forms of internet based communications for irish fans getting excited about young players, yet here, in this example, the opposite is the case: we're fools if we're comfortable with keeping a modicum of self-respect by naming prematuraly ejaculating a green jersey over some kid who just happens to be born in England.



I go around the Internet, on a crusade to right the wrongs of those less worthy and knowledgeable on such matters. Again they are not one and the same, capping a player who is playing in a competitive premier league side is not the same as getting worked up about another player. If connolly is talked about or parrott as good enough to be in the squad and/or get a few snr minutes, then yes i'd push for a dual national born in england playing in england to get the 5 mins. And even possibly ahead of them. You can't paint with the one brush, stroke all over the canvas, its all in the detail Kingdom.

[elatedscum]

I've furrowed a lone plough on this. We've a blind spot with goalkeepers, and have had for a long while in my opinion. We see the spectacular saves, but the nuts and bolts....
I'll just say this. I think Darren Randolph is the reason for a lot of our woes in the last couple of years. I've no axe to grind, I don't dislike him, but for me his positioning is poor, he's weak in the box, and we've conceded some very poor goals. That aside, the biggest gripe I have, is that he forces us 10-15 yds further back the pitch, than up the pitch, and it kills us. It drags the midfield further back to keep the link with defence, and then a knock-on effect on the teams overall position. And when you're a team that constantly gives the ball to the opposition, that 15 yd retreat is a killer. I'm not making this up, I'm not imagining it, look at games over the last 5 years. It's not about having our keeper becoming Ederson or spraying balls around the pitch, but it's about being that bit more aggressive in the set-up. This is something that Kenny has implemented with the 21s, and I'm certain it will continue.


I think there's a few things things. Randolph gave an interview after the Germany game, where he said that Roy gave him an absolute bollocking for trying to play out from the back and he learnt his lesson and didn't go short again or something to that effect. I haven't really paid attention to his positioning in open play - but I will. I do think that coaching set ups can have a huge influence on how aggressive a keeper is with his positioning, his distribution etc. etc. Kelleher, for all his current limitations, distributed aggressively at 21 level (well but certainly not flawlessly) and was extremely aggressive in pushing defenders up the pitch and charging to sweep up (he's also very quick which helps). I was worried about Randolph's performances at the end of the world cup campaign and during the nation's league and there were goals he should have done better on (off the top of my head v Denmark in WC and Wales in NL). Nonethless, his saves in the 1-0 wins against Gibraltar and Georgia literally won us the game. It'll be interesting to see how things go with the new coaching set up, but, as of July, there is no real credible alternative to him.




I probably have derailed this thread a bit considering it was about the influx of young players.


Some of the most interesting debate I've read on the Ireland in a long time. Well articulated from all sides



I see Dara O'Shea had another good performance starting for West Brom yesterday on the right side of defence. Scored a goal too. If he keeps his place until the end of the season then he at least must be worth a squad place in September/October.


We’re short on right back’s alright :p In all honesty, it’s probably between O’Shea, Lenihan and Long for the 4th centre back slot. I’ve heard Andrews speak very highly of Lenihan and his footballing ability. Personally, I think he might struggle against top players.


I’d probably keep O’Shea with the 21s until their campaign is over. He’s not gonna replace any of Clarke, Duffy or Egan in the centre for the next short while - and he’s not gonna go ahead of Coleman or Doherty on the right. He’s been excellent for the 21s for the most part, along with Masterson, Collins and Scales. He could be key to them qualifying whereas, prior to Slovakia, he’d be little more than a 23rd member of the squad.




Rice was happy to play for us until he was put under heavy pressure to play for England. But if we had capped him competitively earlier England would have never come sniffing after him and he would have continued happily playing for Ireland.


Not just England. Gareth Southgate. The owners of his club (Gold and Sullivan). His sponsors at that time (Nike). His new agent. John Terry. Combined with the sacking of Bilic in November/December. O’Neill’s failure to include him in the squads in March. The shambles that was the Irish camp during the Arter/Keane Arter/Walters saga and O’Neill’s unique management style. The poxy world cup where england scraped past Tunisia with a 92nd minute winner to come second ahead of them and Panama and behind Belgium before dispatching the relatively poor Colombia and Sweden en route to the semi and all the hysteria that followed. It took an army of ****-ups and bad luck to make it all happen.


I'd be in favour of removing all doubt ASAP. If Obafemi hadn't been capped when he was, there'd still be speculation over his future, even though, everything he did since putting on an Irish shirt indicated he was committed. I’d fully believe Smallbone is committed too. He’s clearly an excellent footballer and he’s probably not on a hugely dissimilar path to either Connolly or Obafemi when they were capped and probably ahead of Parrott and O’Connor (albeit they weren’t competitive games, although how competitive are nation’s league games really?).


I’m not arguing for Joe Hodge to be capped now, cause clearly he doesn’t have the track record at club level or beyond U19 to merit it yet, even though i think he’s an excellent talent who will hopefully be a key midfielder for us. I saw Grealish play in the FA Cup for Notts County at age 18 and it was clear that he was good enough to play for the national team immeadiately. I fully believe if he had been called up at that point, he would have remained an Irish player. I could easily be wrong but I think so. Equally, in terms of the value of a cap, in March 2018, Declan Rice was operating at a higher level (in performances) than all of Meyler, Hendrick and After who played against Moldova. The 83rd minute introduction of Seanie Maguire for his debut could just as easily have been Declan then. O’Neill believed in showing loyalty to his current squad and that replacing one of those lads when they hadn’t done anything wrong was somehow a mistake. Eunan O’Kane was an unused sub that night. And while I admire Eunan as a human on many levels, I don’t think a single person in Landsdowne would have argued that Declan was not more capable of ensuring a win for Ireland than Eunan was.


I still think there could be a chance that Smallbone is called up in September, depending on his performances during the remainder of the season and who is fit come September. If not, hopefully Kenny’s care and man management will be an improvement on previous management teams. And they watch his performances at u21 level carefully. Ogbone and Rose are both positive indicators in terms of both hands on approach and results. I think Kenny is actually trying to do something deeper, in terms of avenues and pathways for progression through the youth teams. Also, his previous judgement that Smallbone was behind Ronan, Mandriou, Taylor and Knight, maybe means that he feels as though you’ve got to prove it at 21 level before you can earn a senior cap.


As long as there are no casualties or defections, I’d be all for it. But I guarantee you, come September, England eligible Neco Williams will be skipping U21s and going straight from U19s to Wales’ squad. I know people will rightly say that Wales aren’t a great side but imagine how much worse they would have been without Bale and Ramsey. And with the likes of Daniel James, Harry Wilson, Ben Woodburn, Ethan Ampadu, Neco Williams, Rabbi Matondo - there are many promising young players between 19 and 23 coming through, all of whom were eligible and courted by England but capped by Wales, often before they had played a club game. (Bale, Ampadu, Wilson were 16 when called up. Ramsey, Woodburn 17, Matondo was just turned 18).


Stephen Kenny spoke yesterday about how we have under-utilised certain players notably Egan and Doherty (I’d certainly argue Stevens too) - and how between 1993 onwards there haven’t been any players. I dunno if it’s Cullen, Byrne, Browne, Manning, Shodipo, Curtis, Maguire, Williams, Lenihan, McDermott etc etc etc but clearly we haven’t done a good enough job at identifying when players are ready to make the step up and we’ve been too cautious. I can see Wales’ argument for that extreme approach but even if we are just hyper-aware of when a dual eligible player reaches maturity, we’d be in a much better position, not promoting players above their station, just recognising what their present abilities are.


Hopefully the next generation of Southampton players: Obafemi, Smallbone, O’Connor, Ledwidge, Keogh and Ferry will put the likes of Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Ings, Ward-Prowse, Walcott, Shaw, Lallana and, er, McGoldrick to shame :)

[Kingdom]

I go around the Internet, on a crusade to right the wrongs of those less worthy and knowledgeable on such matters.
Admission of guilt is a wonderful thing. I know that's a dig at me, but I don't dimish peoples excitement at player potential, nor do I try to dampen their expectations. Would I try to dampen someones upset at "missing out on a player"? Damn right.


Again they are not one and the same, capping a player who is playing in a competitive premier league side is not the same as getting worked up about another player.

A boy who has played a couple of times in a poor PL side that is safe from relegation. Like, for me it's simple. If he's good enough to be in the squad, then that's fine, name him in the squad. If it's not clear, then weigh up the pros and cons. If it's marginal, over someone who's been a bit part, and will never realistically play a competitive international for us, then fine pick him in the squad, particularly if we're scrapping the bottom of the barrel.
But simply naming him in the squad will be enough to tell you if wants to play for us in the future or not, because all youth internationals know these days what being capped in a competitive game over a friendly means.

I'm delighted for him for his progression, absolutely, and I hope he goes on to a have a great club career, and international career for Ireland. But he has to want to play for Ireland. And I stand by my earlier assertion that sooner or later, obvious cynical ploys such as tieing fellas by obviously playing them for 1 minute at the end of a game, will do more harm than good, either for prospective players, or the morale of existing 2 and 3g er's.

Joe Lapira ring any bells?


If connolly is talked about or parrott as good enough to be in the squad and/or get a few snr minutes, then yes i'd push for a dual national born in england playing in england to get the 5 mins. And even possibly ahead of them.

But you rubbish those of us who laud the ability of Connolly and Parrott, those of us who have seen these players in the flesh playing for Ireland, and how good they've looked. Aaron Connolly's achievements at clublevel - so far - are greater than Smallbone's, and he's best played in a position that we struggle in. the left of the top 3.

Will smallbone is arguably played best in a position a little more advanced of a central midfield three, from what I can tell, from what I've seen, and from what I've read. For me he's not in the top 3 players for that position, so doesn't deserve to be in the squad. ANd for me that's the difference.


You can't paint with the one brush, stroke all over the canvas, its all in the detail Kingdom.
I don't understand what you're saying. But if it's what I think it is, then it's lads like you who chip away at small one-liner statements that make paranoid muppets like me waste the time of others by trying to qualify every position taken on any subject. There's a term for that, can't quite place it, but I'm sure I do seem like the onlinification of the "someone said something wrong on the internet" meme.
I couldn't give a **** if someone got a prediction about a players worth or career expectancy wrong, nor would I go out of my way to point that out to someone (I hope). If I felt someone's contribution was marginalised or dumbed down, sure, I'll stand over that.

You, however, brother, you only look backwards, and speak with a man with the wisdom of hindsight. Enlighten us to the future.

[Kingdom]

I think there's a few things things. Randolph gave an interview after the Germany game, where he said that Roy gave him an absolute bollocking for trying to play out from the back and he learnt his lesson and didn't go short again or something to that effect. I haven't really paid attention to his positioning in open play - but I will. I do think that coaching set ups can have a huge influence on how aggressive a keeper is with his positioning, his distribution etc. etc. Kelleher, for all his current limitations, distributed aggressively at 21 level (well but certainly not flawlessly) and was extremely aggressive in pushing defenders up the pitch and charging to sweep up (he's also very quick which helps). I was worried about Randolph's performances at the end of the world cup campaign and during the nation's league and there were goals he should have done better on (off the top of my head v Denmark in WC and Wales in NL). Nonethless, his saves in the 1-0 wins against Gibraltar and Georgia literally won us the game. It'll be interesting to see how things go with the new coaching set up, but, as of July, there is no real credible alternative to him.

Yes, I can accept that. It's akin to Glenn Whelan saying he plays football according to trap's tactics and if he doesn't, then it means he won't be picked.
I naively believed (I lie - I don't believe) McCarthy when (possibly after Gibraltar) he was questioned about the style of football and how he doesn't ask players to hoof it.


I’d probably keep O’Shea with the 21s until their campaign is over. He’s not gonna replace any of Clarke, Duffy or Egan in the centre for the next short while - and he’s not gonna go ahead of Coleman or Doherty on the right. He’s been excellent for the 21s for the most part, along with Masterson, Collins and Scales. He could be key to them qualifying whereas, prior to Slovakia, he’d be little more than a 23rd member of the squad.

I'd agree with that entirely. I see him entirely as a centre half, not a right-back, in the future.


Not just England. Gareth Southgate. The owners of his club (Gold and Sullivan). His sponsors at that time (Nike). His new agent. John Terry. Combined with the sacking of Bilic in November/December. O’Neill’s failure to include him in the squads in March. The shambles that was the Irish camp during the Arter/Keane Arter/Walters saga and O’Neill’s unique management style. The poxy world cup where england scraped past Tunisia with a 92nd minute winner to come second ahead of them and Panama and behind Belgium before dispatching the relatively poor Colombia and Sweden en route to the semi and all the hysteria that followed. It took an army of ****-ups and bad luck to make it all happen.

So, you reckon that it's bad luck, rather than the player harbouring a (perhaps even sub-) conscious interest in playing for England?


I’m not arguing for Joe Hodge to be capped now, cause clearly he doesn’t have the track record at club level or beyond U19 to merit it yet, even though i think he’s an excellent talent who will hopefully be a key midfielder for us. I saw Grealish play in the FA Cup for Notts County at age 18 and it was clear that he was good enough to play for the national team immeadiately. I fully believe if he had been called up at that point, he would have remained an Irish player. I could easily be wrong but I think so. Equally, in terms of the value of a cap, in March 2018, Declan Rice was operating at a higher level (in performances) than all of Meyler, Hendrick and After who played against Moldova. The 83rd minute introduction of Seanie Maguire for his debut could just as easily have been Declan then. O’Neill believed in showing loyalty to his current squad and that replacing one of those lads when they hadn’t done anything wrong was somehow a mistake. Eunan O’Kane was an unused sub that night. And while I admire Eunan as a human on many levels, I don’t think a single person in Landsdowne would have argued that Declan was not more capable of ensuring a win for Ireland than Eunan was.

Joe Hodge looks a special talent.
My opinion is that Ireland are handicapped to a certain degree from making what could seem to be outrageous decisions, from a much larger pool of player, than the North and Wales are with a much smaller limited pool of players.



I still think there could be a chance that Smallbone is called up in September, depending on his performances during the remainder of the season and who is fit come September. If not, hopefully Kenny’s care and man management will be an improvement on previous management teams. And they watch his performances at u21 level carefully. Ogbone and Rose are both positive indicators in terms of both hands on approach and results. I think Kenny is actually trying to do something deeper, in terms of avenues and pathways for progression through the youth teams. Also, his previous judgement that Smallbone was behind Ronan, Mandriou, Taylor and Knight, maybe means that he feels as though you’ve got to prove it at 21 level before you can earn a senior cap.

Jack taylor is one of the best indicators of Stephen Kenny. I think you yourself at the time were slightly questionable on the selection to a squad while he was at Barnet, but he got a move to Peterborough very soon after and had played excellently with them all season.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Smallbone should be capped tactically, in an ideal world. I said that earlier in the thread. But is it that simple?

For all we know SK knows he's not yet willing to commit. What then? Play him in U21s and wait? Or just tell him he's oout until he says otherwise?

We call him up, he plays. Great.

Call him up, he declines. Problem.

On Twitter Kenny's Kids shows how many young English midfielders are ahead of him. That may be a factor in his thinking. I personally reckon he'll be impressed by the set up regardless of which squad he joins. Whereas 2 years ago he'd have had a choice of Noel King and Monkeano. That can only help. In any of these cases I think man management can help. I am still of the view (not supported by evidence, just a hunch) that Keane's tantrums affected Rice's decision.

And yet again, maybe the player's loyalty just isn't in question. It's just us getting all frantic again.

[youngirish]

Will Smallbone, shouldn't, absolutely shouldn't, be in our national senior squad now. The 21s are the best place for him now.
If the games were tomorrow I'd possibly agree but if Smallbone makes a number of further appearances for Southampton and forces himself into a starting berth over the next 2 months then I'd state he is more deserving of a place in the squad than the likes of Whelan, Hourihane, McClean and Brady. All of whom are on the downward trajectory in their careers and none of them have ever been world beaters anyway.

[Olé Olé]

Given that Kenny spoke previously about how we possibly should have identified Grealish and Rice were good enough and capped them, I'm led to believe that Kenny sees no flight risk in Smallbone and is quite content involving him at under 21 level. I would imagine that Arter, McCarthy and Molumby are all in Kenny's thinking for making his next squad. Leaving Smallbone with the under 21 side in the short term presents a risk (that capping him competitively at senior level would not present) but I have to imagine that he has assessed that risk and is opting not to fast track him until he has a body of under 21 work.

Rice and Grealish both appeared at under 21 level for us (5 and 6 times respectively) and they did very well. I would imagine that if Smallbone does well in his first couple of games at that level that he will graduate to senior level very quickly.

[paul_oshea]

If the games were tomorrow I'd possibly agree but if Smallbone makes a number of further appearances for Southampton and forces himself into a starting berth over the next 2 months then I'd state he is more deserving of a place in the squad than the likes of Whelan, Hourihane, McClean and Brady. All of whom are on the downward trajectory in their careers and none of them have ever been world beaters anyway.

We got about a " season" out of Brady. McClean popped up for the odd important goal but overall I think he limited or gameplay. Granted his pace and direct running would kind of suit Kenny's style.

[Olé Olé]

We got about a " season" out of Brady. McClean popped up for the odd important goal but overall I think he limited or gameplay. Granted his pace and direct running would kind of suit Kenny's style.

Michael Duffy could be in with a shout also.

[elatedscum]

I naively believed (I lie - I don't believe) McCarthy when (possibly after Gibraltar) he was questioned about the style of football and how he doesn't ask players to hoof it.


The one and only Johnny Giles often said that there's a difference between not discouraging and actively encouraging. Old habits die hard and after 4 years with O'Neill and 6 years with Trap, certain things are near ingrained. Kenny will demand as much football as he can eek out the side. While McCarthy may not have discouraged progressive football, it certainly wasn't a deal breaker. In fairness to Mick, with 8 qualifiers in a row and no friendlies or time to work with the side in advance, it wasn't an easy remit in terms of making drastic changes. Things could have been different if the FAI didn't extend O'Neill's contract before we got knocked out in the playoffs and if they have parted ways prior to the nation's league.






So, you reckon that it's bad luck, rather than the player harbouring a (perhaps even sub-) conscious interest in playing for England?


I think it's deeply complex. My grandmother's brother moved to England with his parents during the economic war as a young child and ended up commanding in the navy as a 14 year old during the second world war. Truly mad stuff. He married an English born woman (with 2 irish born parents) and all of his kids would consider themselves purely Irish - and as far as I'm aware, so would his grandkids. Even though he was employed by the navy for over 50 years. He's still alive today, in his 90s and has, up until very recently, still driven from London to Hollyhead and taken the Ferry across to Ireland to visit Dublin and his hometown in Tipp/Offally. There are people living in England like his children and grandchildren. There are others who exist in a sort of duality of nationhood, I remember Alex McGuinness' brother tweeting both stuff about the England team in the world cup and then also extremely republican stuff. I think Declan was deeply proud to play for Ireland and to be Irish and he fully embraced his Irish side (while now he fully embraces his English side) and I think, while an adult, 19 year olds can be pushed and pressurised easier than others. There was a campaign created by people with self-interests: his club, his agent, his sponsors, helped along by very intelligent work by Southgate who wanted a very promising young player and John Terry a proud English captain who perhaps sees himself as a future England manager. He's obviously an individual who was always capable of switching, given it happened, but there were also random circumstances which made it much more likely (England getting the easiest draw in their history and Declan living in England through the unique English hysteria).


I remember after the 0-0 draw against Norway, he went up and hugged an elderly woman from the London Ireland fan club (she was wearing a top from them) and spoke with her for about 5 minutes - she was an extension of him and his people. I remember him after the Azerbaijan game. In my mind, he would have definitely continued to play in that moment. Irish-English is a deeply complex and tribal mix but if you take it back, the likes of Tom Gaston (Irish French), Conor Noss (Irish German) Ryan Johansson (Irish Swede Luxembourgi). While they have all expressed a desire to play for Ireland and have talked about being Irish, they're also entitled to feel something else as well. We've got to position ourselves as best as possible. And if the DFB are chasing Conor Noss, we'd want to argue our case well. As we see with different players, it's not always the same thoughout their careers. For example, Marcus McGuane was an Irish U17 at 16, then at 17, he changed to England. I'm pretty sure where he's at now, he would gladly be playing for Ireland but England promised him certain things and he imagined he would progress in a certain way. If you asked Callum Robinson or Ciaran Clark at 16, they may have made similar choices to him. Grealish also probably switched at the worst time. He is still uncapped by England, he probably would have played in Euros and World Cups by now had he stayed with Ireland. And i think if someone had asked him privately and honestly at the start of last season when he was in the championship if he regretted it, i think he would say yes. Dan Crowley, possibly due to a misinterpretation of the rules, is also in a similar boat. He wants to play for Ireland and he can't. The choices he made at 15 caused that. The converse is also true. Conor Noss at 19 might dream of playing for Ireland and if we think he's good enough and we can plot a path for him, which he believes in and buys into, then why not? But if he starts playing like Kai Havertz next season and the german media begins to put pressure on him - you could easily see him questioning his future.


Being pre-emptive, is basically what Tunisia did with Ayman Ben Muhammad when he was at Bohs. I know the lad and he was absolutely delighted at the time to accept the call up and to play international football and deeply proud to represent the country of his family, just ecstatic. Nonetheless, he dreamt of playing for ireland and there was a moment in 2018, when the question of 'what if' occurred... (Playing both with and against him when he was around 18-20, there was really no signs he would become a player who would play against Messi and Salah. None at all. Kaleem Simon who was probably very similarly rated at that age and played together with him at UCD, Longford and Bohs is battling away at Wexford FC along with Azeez Yusuff, who was probably the highest rated of the three before all of his injuries.








Jack taylor is one of the best indicators of Stephen Kenny. I think you yourself at the time were slightly questionable on the selection to a squad while he was at Barnet, but he got a move to Peterborough very soon after and had played excellently with them all season.


Definitely. It was an unpopular selection. I was skeptical. Taylor has played well during every U21 appearance and his stock has risen hugely. I think with Toulon they made an effort to see players who they hadn’t before (Taylor, Wright, Power, Mallon) and with Taylor, it paid off. Great example of good scouting and a manager who is strong enough in his own beliefs to pick players who wouldn’t be in anyone else’s squads prior to their introduction (not talking about Staunton and Alan O’Brien)



Given that Kenny spoke previously about how we possibly should have identified Grealish and Rice were good enough and capped them, I'm led to believe that Kenny sees no flight risk in Smallbone and is quite content involving him at under 21 level. I would imagine that Arter, McCarthy and Molumby are all in Kenny's thinking for making his next squad. Leaving Smallbone with the under 21 side in the short term presents a risk (that capping him competitively at senior level would not present) but I have to imagine that he has assessed that risk and is opting not to fast track him until he has a body of under 21 work.


Rice and Grealish both appeared at under 21 level for us (5 and 6 times respectively) and they did very well. I would imagine that if Smallbone does well in his first couple of games at that level that he will graduate to senior level very quickly.


Good shout on this (and Michael Duffy). Of course, until someone is locked, there’s always a flight risk, just because people are people but he’s obviously had conversations with McCarthy and Arter and wants to bring them back into the fold. He’s seen Molumby’s quality. I suspect Cullen is the type of player he was talking about when identifying players who could contribute sooner. He mentioned Browne. Maybe Hourihane will be sacrificed but his dead balls are so good that I can’t see it. I assume Whelan will be left behind for McCarthy and Cullen, as will Judge. Then there’s Hendrick. And Jack, who I suspect, he’s currently not thinking about for September, maybe because LOI have yet to start but if he is hands down the best player in the league again, that could change…


Right, I’m off to work on brevity….

[Yard of Pace]

Definitely. It was an unpopular selection. I was skeptical. Taylor has played well during every U21 appearance and his stock has risen hugely. I think with Toulon they made an effort to see players who they hadn’t before (Taylor, Wright, Power, Mallon) and with Taylor, it paid off. Great example of good scouting and a manager who is strong enough in his own beliefs to pick players who wouldn’t be in anyone else’s squads prior to their introduction (not talking about Staunton and Alan O’Brien)





I'm currently reading Jonathon Wilson's Clough bigraphy (it's really excellent). And this is exactly how he achieved success with Taylor at Derby.....

(Also, he was a big believer in youth too, John McGovern, Roy MacFarland etc and, finally, it's sad Andy Reid isn't around seeing how Clough took to fellow, podgy, gifted winger John Robertson)

[Olé Olé]

I do agree with the idea that we were very unlucky with Rice. He should have been capped but we were unlucky he slipped from our clutches. This could be very simplistic but it appeared as though his father was keen for him to realise his Irish dream, whilst most other stakeholders dragged him in the other direction.

On the other hand, I have spoken to a pal from the Irish Community in Birmingham who reckons that the Grealish family were always likely to have their heads turned by the fame and fortune (incidentally, the same guy is convinced that the Crowley's were always edging towards Ireland, regardless of Dan's career trajectory). Grealish also took on Jonathan Barnett as his agent. There's a story that Barnett tried getting Gareth Bale (another client) to play with England due to having an English granny but Bale told him where to go.

I have probably gone into too much past detail that we have all tried to forget about. But I am just trying to demonstrate the point that Rice and Grealish identified as Irish and English but due to particular circumstances, they were dragged towards England from Ireland.

Rice and Grealish have conditioned us to expect this outcome. However, as mentioned above, such circumstances haven't presented themselves to Wales. And they have had terrific outcomes on the lads set out above. I think many of the lads that have plumped for Wales have been born to a Welsh parent or two Welsh grandparents. Like Rice and Grealish, unlike James Maddison (one grandparent). David Brooks mother is Welsh and he jumped from England to Wales. I would argue that if he were eligible for England today then he would earn more England caps than Grealish in the future.

One point on the Welsh, however, is that they are quicker to fast-track Welsh -born talent than we are our Irish-born. Dylan Levitt has been spoken about by Giggs as someone he wanted to call up before the pandemic took over. He's 19, Welsh-born and one Europea League appearance for Man United. If he was English -born then the assumption would be that it is a strategic cap.

It is great that Smallbone's mam is Irish. I think that makes a big difference. Similar point for Daniel Rose at Schalke. Having a parent with an Irish accent is a help. See also Anselmo Garcia McNulty and Conor Boss. And, ugh, Ryan Johansson and his preference.