2020 League Cup

[pineapple stu]

Seems to be a slight change of format this year - 9 First Division teams (Rovers II aren't in) plus 3 non-league sides make up the first round, with the 6 winners joining the 12 Premier Division sides in the next round. No mention of regional pools until the QF stage any more, though the first round ties are regionalised.

"Drogheda v UCD the standout tie in EA Sports Cup" is the headline on RTÉ, which is suitably underwhelming I think!

Monday, 9 March
Cabinteely v Crumlin United
Drogheda United v UCD

Tuesday, 10 March
Galway United v Athlone Town
Longford Town v Cockhill Celtic
UCC v Cobh Ramblers
Wexford v Bray Wanderers

[outspoken]

Yawn.

[Eminence Grise]

Not terribly outspoken, and yet so much so.

[littlebray]

Did anyone get the actual draw sequence, as opposed to the list of fixtures by date?

[The Lilywhites]

Yawn.

The League Cup not significant enough for trophy laden Longford Town?!

[D24Saint]

Did anyone get the actual draw sequence, as opposed to the list of fixtures by date?

That would be interesting as it looks to be an orchestrated list of fixtures than a traditional draw.

[D24Saint]

The League Cup not significant enough for trophy laden Longford Town?!

Its a Michael Mouse trophy it adds to a good league season but wouldn’t make up for a bad one like the FAI cup would.

[El-Pietro]

That would be interesting as it looks to be an orchestrated list of fixtures than a traditional draw.

The early rounds have always been regional.

[outspoken]

The League Cup not significant enough for trophy laden Longford Town?!

We beat Dundalk in pre-season therefore we are the best team in Ireland, that's enough for me.

[The Lilywhites]

We beat Dundalk in pre-season therefore we are the best team in Ireland, that's enough for me.

Glad you've clarified who you really support!

[Martinho II]

Glad you've clarified who you really support!

Its even coming out in Outspokens accent on his podcast!

btw is this UCCs first time to take part in league cup?

[Hitman]

btw is this UCCs first time to take part in league cup?

They played in it in 2015, beating Wexford and Cobh before losing to Dundalk.

[littlebray]

I have 2018 also for UCC (lost 4-1 to Waterford in first Pool round). Can't go back any further than 2004 for this, if it's any use to anyone.

League Cup 2004-2020, Non-League participants:

2004 (2): Kerry League, Mayo League
2005 (1): Mayo League
2006 (1): Kerry League (only 16 League clubs entered)
2007 (2): Fanad United, Kerry League
2008 (2): Kildrum Tigers, Kerry League
2009 (2*): Five non-reserve A Championship teams, Kildrum Tigers, Kerry League
2010 (6): Kerry League, Tralee Dynamos, Castlebar Celtic, Letterkenny Rovers, Tullamore Town, Carlow FC
2011 (4): Kerry League, Tralee Dynamos, Cockhill Celtic, Carlow FC
2012 (2): Mayo League, Fanad United
2013 (2): Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2014 (5): Avondale, Crumlin United, Mervue United, Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2015 (4): UCC, Crumlin United, Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2016 (4): Rockmount, Bluebell United, Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2017 (4): Avondale, Bluebell United, Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2018 (4): UCC, St Mochtas, Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2019 (3): Midleton, Bluebell United, Cockhill Celtic
2020 (3): UCC, Crumlin United, Cockhill Celtic
* 7 if A Championship is not regarded as "League"

[Martinho II]

I have 2018 also for UCC (lost 4-1 to Waterford in first Pool round). Can't go back any further than 2004 for this, if it's any use to anyone.

League Cup 2004-2020, Non-League participants:

2004 (2): Kerry League, Mayo League
2005 (1): Mayo League
2006 (1): Kerry League (only 16 League clubs entered)
2007 (2): Fanad United, Kerry League
2008 (2): Kildrum Tigers, Kerry League
2009 (2*): Five non-reserve A Championship teams, Kildrum Tigers, Kerry League
2010 (6): Kerry League, Tralee Dynamos, Castlebar Celtic, Letterkenny Rovers, Tullamore Town, Carlow FC
2011 (4): Kerry League, Tralee Dynamos, Cockhill Celtic, Carlow FC
2012 (2): Mayo League, Fanad United
2013 (2): Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2014 (5): Avondale, Crumlin United, Mervue United, Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2015 (4): UCC, Crumlin United, Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2016 (4): Rockmount, Bluebell United, Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2017 (4): Avondale, Bluebell United, Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2018 (4): UCC, St Mochtas, Mayo League, Cockhill Celtic
2019 (3): Midleton, Bluebell United, Cockhill Celtic
2020 (3): UCC, Crumlin United, Cockhill Celtic
* 7 if A Championship is not regarded as "League"

if it is any help Little Bray I know for us that we participated as a non league side in the 82-83 and 83-84 seasons in the league cup.

[seand]

couple more seasons, for now:
2003: Kerry Lge, Mayo Lge
02-3: not played
01-2: no non-league
00-1: Bluebell, Rockmouont, Swilly, Mervue
99-00: Newbridge Tn, Rockmount (semi-finalists)

[total hoofball]

Have I missed it or has there been anything official from the FAI this week on whether the league cup will resume or if its being null & voided? It was deferred back in March

[Martinho II]

Have I missed it or has there been anything official from the FAI this week on whether the league cup will resume or if its being null & voided? It was deferred back in March

Didnt hear a peep out of them. We were supposed to play Cockhill Celtic but tbh if non league clubs are excluded from FAI Cup cant see league cup going ahead tbh.

[Mr A]

Am pretty certain there will be no league cup this year.

[legendz]

Is the league cup suspended indefinitely or is there any talk of adding it back into the football calendar?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I wonder if the appetite is really there for it to return. Without a Euro place I think its attraction is negligible for a lot of clubs.

[legendz]

I wonder if the appetite is really there for it to return. Without a Euro place I think its attraction is negligible for a lot of clubs.The Markets Field was a sell out for a final a few years ago. Is a Euro place really necessary?

[D24Saint]

I wonder if the appetite is really there for it to return. Without a Euro place I think its attraction is negligible for a lot of clubs.

I wouldn't have any interest in seeing it back tbh. Id much prefer a reserve league for backup players to get a run out.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The Markets Field was a sell out for a final a few years ago. Is a Euro place really necessary?

It's a fair point, I was there myself actually. But I think you have to consider the unique attractor of a final for a club like Limerick, who were on one of their infrequent popular streaks at the time as well. Judging the attractiveness of a tournament overall based solely on interest in its final I don't think is the best approach: looking at Wiki Limerick got in around a quarter of the final attendance for the 1/4 final against Galway for example. The lack of noise about its potential return is sign enough really.

Maybe the League Cup means more for FD clubs and those outside of the very top of the PD? I just think if there's a carrot like Euro qualification there it's the simplest way to make it important. Hard to do with our current allocation though. Best I can think of is giving LC winners a play-off with 3rd in the league for Conference entry.

[Jd2793]

its a joke it wasnt brought back this season.

[legendz]

It's a fair point, I was there myself actually. But I think you have to consider the unique attractor of a final for a club like Limerick, who were on one of their infrequent popular streaks at the time as well. Judging the attractiveness of a tournament overall based solely on interest in its final I don't think is the best approach: looking at Wiki Limerick got in around a quarter of the final attendance for the 1/4 final against Galway for example. The lack of noise about its potential return is sign enough really.

Maybe the League Cup means more for FD clubs and those outside of the very top of the PD? I just think if there's a carrot like Euro qualification there it's the simplest way to make it important. Hard to do with our current allocation though. Best I can think of is giving LC winners a play-off with 3rd in the league for Conference entry.4 teams are in Europe. The LC could be for the 16 teams not in Europe. 4 rounds on Easter bank holiday, May bank holiday, June bank holiday and August bank holiday.
The 4 European teams and the LC semi-finalists could enter the FAI Cup at the Round of 16 stage.

[sbgawa]

4 teams are in Europe. The LC could be for the 16 teams not in Europe. 4 rounds on Easter bank holiday, May bank holiday, June bank holiday and August bank holiday.
The 4 European teams and the LC semi-finalists could enter the FAI Cup at the Round of 16 stage.

Its sensible thinking like that that proves you aren't working in the FAI

[Nesta99]

I really like that format too legendz - Or schedule high profile league games eg derbies on those holiday weekends and LC on the vacated league slots, if it was felt that the LC wouldnt get the interest and maybe waste what could be bumper crowds on those weekends

[EatYerGreens]

Having just 2 trophies available to every club - only one of which is via a knock-out format (i.e. increases chances of new/novel finalists and winners) - is too few in my opinion. Our league can well manage 3 trophies. Pretty much every other league seems to do it.

The NI League Cup Final this year attracted 11,000 to Windsor Park - through good pricing, two teams with decent support, and a bit of a media push. I wouldn't have our LC Final at Lansdowne (at least not until crowds across the league are better), but it shows what could potentially be done with the LOI LC. It's really never been treated all that seriously by anyone here, when it could and should be.

[NeverFeltBetter]

What's the prize money for our League Cup does anyone know? Be interesting to see how it compares to the NI equivalent.

[sadloserkid]

In general nobody cares about it unless they make the semis. I quite like it myself (first trophy I saw Limerick win, up in Derry, 20 years ago now) but I can understand why the clubs aren't too bothered tbh.

[oriel]

What's the prize money for our League Cup does anyone know? Be interesting to see how it compares to the NI equivalent.

I think 10 or 20k, something like that.

Anyway we are doing well again in it, 2022 will be 3rd season in a row we have kept hold of the trophy !

[pineapple stu]

In general nobody cares about it unless they make the semis. I quite like it myself (first trophy I saw Limerick win, up in Derry, 20 years ago now) but I can understand why the clubs aren't too bothered tbh.
Yeah, it was handy for giving young players early games (if that was your thing) but in general it was very low key and you'd wonder what the point really was. Most European countries don't have a League Cup.

That said, I agree that I'd like to see it back, but the LSC can quietly be ignored.

[outspoken]

Didn't they scrap it in France as well? Obviously the LC & LSC were great for young players but I'd prefer the focus to be on establishing the third tier where there will be more opportunities for younger players than the odd cup game that nobody has any interest in

[Jd2793]

its not just young players who playi n LC though? few more games for squad players who may not have played in the opening few games etc. i think its madness to scrap it. is the lsc gone too? msc is still going

[pineapple stu]

Probably depends on the club. UCD would often blood new players in the League Cup (and the LSC). Probably a lot of the First Division would as well because it's a fairly young league. For the bigger clubs, it probably is handy as a squad rotation.

The LSC was dropped at the same time as the League Cup. That was a joke of a competition to be honest and we're better off without it, even allowing for its long history. Athlone had to extend their season about six weeks to play a semi-final a couple of years back.

[legendz]

Didn't they scrap it in France as well? Obviously the LC & LSC were great for young players but I'd prefer the focus to be on establishing the third tier where there will be more opportunities for younger players than the odd cup game that nobody has any interest in Reinstating the LC or not is debatable and that's fair enough. Scrapping away goals wasn't a universally popular decision but a decision that was made.
Any LoI team that qualifies for Europe, will have the high profile that goes with that. A league cup without the European teams can afford those who get to the latter stages of it, an opportunity for a sellout. Like the Markets Field a few years back.
As mentioned previously, there is a debatable suggestion to give European teams and LC semi-finalists a bye until the FAI Cup round of 16. It would be an added incentive for progress in the early rounds of the LC. As a previous contributer mentioned, the semi-finals by their nature will gain attention by themselves.

[Nesta99]

The League Cup has been a platform by which a number of good sides kicked off with. When top of the heap, European games maybe an FAI Cup run also then yeah its a low priority. But it shouldnt be underestimated as a senior trophy to win either. The opportunity it gave to Wexford Youths v Derry is probably one of the better more recent examples of some worth. There are plenty of Dundalk fans that would bemoan missing out on a domestic clean sweep and of course Derry will point to being the only side to have done that particular domestic treble.

[legendz]

As we all know in a match situation, there can be a moment that sparks the game or a team into life. A cup run can breathe life into a club as well.
If a cup run is seen as a hindrance, it might be lacking a fair reward for progression or structured better if possible and sensible.

[Nesta99]

At times the reward is just simply that there is another addition to a roll of honour. Im greedy and would want to win every trophy available to my club (European comps may just be an expectation too far), it annoys me a small bit that Dundalk were a couple of penalty shoot-outs away from possibly ticking that box. Its a rare achievement so in some way that is the incentive itself. I dont think there should be any play-offs for a place in Europe that could include LC winners, but if there is ever a sustainable cross border or celtc cup type competition where there is decent participation money, LC winners should be in the hat. As it does serve a purpose in giving youth players a taste of senior football, similarly with the provincial senior cups, I dont think it should be scrapped. If it is it will be due to a couldnt be bothered attitude by the FAI and not because of some strategy on fixture congestion or player welfare etc.

[nigel-harps1954]

I'd like to see the League Cup return, but I'd guess the clubs wouldn't be too happy with more midweek fixtures.

[pineapple stu]

Is there anything to be said for going back to the old format of groups of four in pre-season?

Bit of an edge compared to regular pre-season, and you can charge admission.

[legendz]

At times the reward is just simply that there is another addition to a roll of honour. Im greedy and would want to win every trophy available to my club (European comps may just be an expectation too far), it annoys me a small bit that Dundalk were a couple of penalty shoot-outs away from possibly ticking that box. Its a rare achievement so in some way that is the incentive itself. I dont think there should be any play-offs for a place in Europe that could include LC winners, but if there is ever a sustainable cross border or celtc cup type competition where there is decent participation money, LC winners should be in the hat. As it does serve a purpose in giving youth players a taste of senior football, similarly with the provincial senior cups, I dont think it should be scrapped. If it is it will be due to a couldnt be bothered attitude by the FAI and not because of some strategy on fixture congestion or player welfare etc. Playoffs are like marmite. Some agree. Some disagree. The First Division has playoffs and is keeping more clubs active for longer in the season.
I'm in favour of a European play-off. I accept it's not everyone's cup of tea. With the value LoI clubs have on qualifying for Europe, playoffs can be utilised for promotion of the league.
With the league being a calendar season, a 4 way playoff could be played out in February. The league cup winner (if a Premier Division team), the FAI Cup runners-up (if a Premier Division team) and the best 2 Premier Division teams not qualified are an example of potential options as participants.
Hosted on two Fridays and two Mondays before the start of the league season, it has potential to be a high profile start for the return of the domestic league.

[D24Saint]

Is there anything to be said for going back to the old format of groups of four in pre-season?

Bit of an edge compared to regular pre-season, and you can charge admission.

Sounds like a good solution.

[brendy_éire]

Is there anything to be said for going back to the old format of groups of four in pre-season?

Really enjoyed those games as a fan, and a nice intro to the season.


Playoffs are like marmite. Some agree. Some disagree. The First Division has playoffs and is keeping more clubs active for longer in the season.
I'm in favour of a European play-off. I accept it's not everyone's cup of tea.... The league cup winner (if a Premier Division team), the FAI Cup runners-up (if a Premier Division team) and the best 2 Premier Division teams not qualified are an example of potential options as participants.

I'd be against play-offs in general. Your league position should be all that matters. To extend the play-off argument, we could go down the GAA route of having the league's top two play-off in a final?
Being finalists in a cup isn't always a reflection of quality. It all depends on your route to the final, and I don't agree that luck should be a determinant to qualifying for something.

Whilst I'd like to see the LC back, I think it's a hard enough sell. For some clubs, they weren't too bothered about it anyway, but now you'd be looking to fit it into a schedule which has a fair few midweek games anyway. With the international break being used now, it's a bit tighter. It may less of an issue to larger squads, but especially for some FD clubs, would they see any value in it?

[Nesta99]

In principle you are hoping that the leagues representatives in Europe are the strongest there are. There is an element of luck with the cup winners and the path to the final but often the cup winners are from the leagues top 3 or 4. It can also be argued that the teams that qualify one season to play in the following years competitions can change or weaken but again it is more likely that they will at least try to improve. Some of the arguments for play-offs, like the last one, are hangovers from boom and bust days and things are more stable now generally I think. Trying to use play-offs to leverage greater interest in the league as a whole i dont think is a sound mindset - its like hoping media give a load of coverage but its only going to be for the few days around the play-offs rather than generating broader public interest. Understandably, I think that those who'd favour a kind of backdoor route in to Europe will be clubs and supporters that may not have the resources to give themselves a good shot at a top 3 or 4 finish on a regular basis. It would be reasonable to change minds on a play-off system, for and against, depending on the fortunes of a club at that time.

A GAA example has been mentioned but its the rugby formats that baffle me, an americanised system where over a full season you can top the league, with a 100% record, but not be champions 'cause you lose the one off game to a teams that has sat in 4th all year. I know its not dissimilar to the football league playoffs but at least the top 2 or whatever are champions or promoted etc

[legendz]

A Europa play-off is not everyone's cup of tea. That's fair enough. I would argue that the league winner, cup winner and league runner-up already qualify for Europe. The fourth European spot has potential for a high profile playoff. The 4th team instead of limping in, can qualify in a blaze of glory!

[Nesta99]

Can only happen in years when the cup winner is from the top 3 no?

[legendz]

Can only happen in years when the cup winner is from the top 3 no?1 European spot can be unknown at the end of the league season, due to the Cup final. After the great Cup final attendance last year, there won't be any appetite any time soon to play the Cup final a week or two before the end of the league.
If the winds of change brought an appetite for a European play-off, it would have to be at the start of the next season.
Back on the topic of the league cup, the 4 European teams as I suggested could be left out of the league cup. The 4 European teams however could compete in the President's Cup. Two legged semi-finals on Easter and May bank holiday. One off final on June bank holiday. It'll be completed before the European season.
The President Cup winner (if a Premier Division club in the following year), the league cup winner (if a PD club also), the Cup runner-up (if a PD club also) and the highest placed Premier Division club not already qualified can be the 4 participants.
All clubs will have an opportunity for a domestic treble. Being in the President's Cup or League Cup, will be like being in the Champions League or Europa League, minus the money! Kicking off the season with a high profile European play-off will do the marketing of the league on the pitch.
Again, I fully accept that a play-off is not everyone's cup of tea.

[sbgawa]

Is there anything to be said for going back to the old format of groups of four in pre-season?

Bit of an edge compared to regular pre-season, and you can charge admission.


Better than meaningless matches

[Neish]

4 teams are in Europe. The LC could be for the 16 teams not in Europe. 4 rounds on Easter bank holiday, May bank holiday, June bank holiday and August bank holiday.
The 4 European teams and the LC semi-finalists could enter the FAI Cup at the Round of 16 stage.

Was thinking something similar, don't the English teamS involved in Europe skip a round or two of the ELC?