Cash injection for Cork City

[nr637]

Cork City and Preston North End have signed off on a deal which is believed to be worth in the region of €500,000 to the League of Ireland club.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/soccer/preston-deal-a-timely-cash-injection-for-city-981453.html

[Mr A]

Former Leeds United chairman Peter Ridsdale, who acts an advisor to Preston and its billionaire owner Trevor Hemmings

https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/thisisfine-1.jpg

[sbgawa]

If the revenue just got sorted Cork must have been down to the wire to get a licence, no tax clearance cert, no licence

[nr637]

All sorted, bills paid, revenue happy, so we got our licence.

In Fenn we thrust!

[Nesta99]

The more things change the more they stay the same - was it Kevin Doyle's sell on clause that Cork City needed to seek to be bought out in short term firefighting so lost out on a larger figure in subsequent years. If Maguire gets a decent injury free run or Preston get promoted and he shows some ability in the EPL then 500k could be a snip for PNE on him alone when strikers prices are generally inflated to silly money. But if needs must and its the difference between getting a licence or not then you have to be pragmatic. I do find it odd that lightening has struck twice to some extent since FORAS took the reigns and that financial prudence was the keystone to their purpose?!

[El-Pietro]

Tommy No Bobs sold out the previous clauses so he could put the money in his own pocket. Cork City would never have gotten the sell on fee given what happened that year.
This money is for both Maguire and Alan Browne. Browne has a year left on his deal, and could potentially go for ~£10m this summer, or they could get promoted and we could get nothing when he signs a new deal. Sligo have been waiting a decade for a Seamus Coleman sell on to no avail.

Maguire doesn't have a tonne of value right now given his injuries and lack of goals this season.

[oriel]

Not sure this is a good deal, I think I’d have preferred seek alternative investment in Ireland as opposed to this. This does show how a club can suffer though after euro monies flowing in regularly from 2015-2018, then down to zero, and unless they overhaul their recruitment next few years, it might be a good few more years until euro cash returns.

Maguire could easily move to a bigger club than PNE, and you’d hate to think what they would miss out on then, also looks like their members were not consulted before this? He may not be scoring for fun, but he has potential, I would have waited.

[Nesta99]

Tommy No Bobs sold out the previous clauses so he could put the money in his own pocket. Cork City would never have gotten the sell on fee given what happened that year.
This money is for both Maguire and Alan Browne. Browne has a year left on his deal, and could potentially go for ~£10m this summer, or they could get promoted and we could get nothing when he signs a new deal. Sligo have been waiting a decade for a Seamus Coleman sell on to no avail.

Maguire doesn't have a tonne of value right now given his injuries and lack of goals this season.

I agree entirely that there is risk of getting nothing. Add-on clauses is an area that all LoI people have identified as a weakness over decades as as soon as the finances get rockey then we go cashing in early for a lot less. Im not condemning it as clubs have to be pragmatic at times. Yup that era was a lost one for Cork City on so many levels. But (yes there is always one) for years since FORAS has roared from the rooftops that there would be no repeat, the financial security of the club comes first even if that involves conservative playing budgets. But what appears to have happened is prior to last seasons slump, a tax bill wasnt paid, and then was compounded by fines and the 2019 shortfalls, to the extent of risking the club or relegation on financial issues. I'd be sure that the necessary money would have been generated irrespective of this 500k but what happened to the FORAS financial safety checks? An area that there was undoubted pride that the future of the club was secure and far more important than chasing silverware. The very core principle of FORAS went awol!

[El-Pietro]

Maguire is not the cash cow. Alan Brown was the one we were hoping for.

[Lim till i die]

Al least Pat Dolan isn't getting rich this time.

We can all agree that's progress of sorts. :good:

[The Lilywhites]

So Cork were forced into this or else they would not have got a licence for this season?

"The FAI informed Cork City last week that they would not be granted a licence for the 2020 season if they failed to settle a debt with Revenue, and it was at that point that Cork reached out to Preston to negotiate over the sell-on clauses."

https://www.the42.ie/cork-city-preston-5006200-Feb2020/?utm_source=shortlink

[sbgawa]

I'm glad Cork got themselves sorted out but its a good sign if the "New FAI" are making clubs sort themselves out before giving out licences.
Previously id say the FAI would have run a mile from pulling the plug on a club like Cork.

We'll have to come up with a better name than "New FAI"
FAI abu?

[Martinho II]

Will Jonathan OBrien go back to Foras now hes quit as TD. Seen him in his Cork city top celebrating Sinn Feins win in Co Cork on the telly!

[The Donie Forde]

...also looks like their members were not consulted before this?

Why would we be? This is essentially a transfer negotiation.

[pateen]

Its a board decision not a members decision.

[pateen]

Will Jonathan OBrien go back to Foras now hes quit as TD. Seen him in his Cork city top celebrating Sinn Feins win in Co Cork on the telly!

Would mind if he did. He would do a great job.
CTID

[sbgawa]

Why did he not run as a TD he would have been elected easy

[outspoken]

Why did he not run as a TD he would have been elected easy

Think he suffered a family bereavement last year and citied wanting to spend more time with family.

[White Horse]

"Cork City’s involvement with Preston North End could extend to a full takeover by the English club, The Echo has learned."

https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/Citys-involvement-with-Preston-could-extend-to-full-takeover-2ea66d8d-d556-40af-b17a-9269d0c31e69-ds

That escalated very quickly.

[Nesta99]

Its a board decision not a members decision.

Members can surely call the board to task if there has been mismanagement or they have not followed instruction form the membership otherwise what's the point in the supporter owned model. Do general policies not get set at AGMs eg keeping x money in reserve? If I were a member of a club that was nearly stopped from competing i'd expect members to call an EGM. To have to approach PNE looking for money that there was no certainty of getting seems like last resort stuff. It totally flies in the face of what FORAS has been about and achieved previously. At CCFC's peak era including the 2017 double winning year a revenue bill has just been resolved to obtain a licence. What has happened to Foras and the people who started it off, they'd be livid or should be.

[sbgawa]

Isn't it an entirely new board sorting it out?

[El-Pietro]

Isn't it an entirely new board sorting it out?

Board was elected at AGM last March. At least ome member was on the board the year before. New AGM to elect two members in a few weeks.

[Nesta99]

Would lack of continuity at board level from year to year have been an issue?

[El-Pietro]

Would lack of continuity at board level from year to year have been an issue?

Hard to say for certain, it may have had some impact. A lot of our financial issues though under an experienced board and chairman who gambled on good crowds and continued competing for trophies.
Our new inexperienced board have been digging up and dealing with a lot of unexpected issues such as the incorrectly claimed VAT.

[nr637]

Can't be any worse than the Dundalk/PEAK6 Sports US Investment Firm situation! :confused:

Every club in our leagues are desperate for any form of investment interests from outsiders, whatever the gamble.

We have a history of it over the years and it is part of the game for smaller leagues all over.

Whenever did the FAI or the Government really show an interest, just look at the recent bail out, an interest free loan over 3 years!

[sbgawa]

Werent Shin Fein running Cork city the last few years??
Not a good sign for the rest of the Economy :)

[El-Pietro]

Werent Shin Fein running Cork city the last few years??
Not a good sign for the rest of the Economy :)
I assume thats a dig at Jon O'Brien? He was City chairman several years again but has not been heavily involved in recent years. Hes was also one of the few individuals who knew what he doing when questioning the FAI during the various hearings.

Its a real pity he chose to step down from the Dáil, he would have made a fantastic minister for Sport, but hopefully he can become more involved with FORAS again.

[sbgawa]

ah yeah just slagging.
Saw him at the count wearing his Cork City top.
i DEFINITELY wouldnt be a shinner but your right he knew more than the rest of them combined at the Dail hearing.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Tommy No Bobs sold out the previous clauses so he could put the money in his own pocket. Cork City would never have gotten the sell on fee given what happened that year.
This money is for both Maguire and Alan Browne. Browne has a year left on his deal, and could potentially go for ~£10m this summer, or they could get promoted and we could get nothing when he signs a new deal. Sligo have been waiting a decade for a Seamus Coleman sell on to no avail.

Maguire doesn't have a tonne of value right now given his injuries and lack of goals this season.

We don’t have a sell on

[sbgawa]

sell ons typically are time limited .
Sold before end of first contract, or second etc.
Not saying there arent "forever clauses " but its def not all of them

[Kingswood Rover]

So Cork Preston or Cork North End. Really surprised at how close it got to non renewal of the licence and it being kept under wraps. Foras have made mistakes like all of us but they also kept the club going to the extent that it was the best supported club in the country. Personally I would be happy diluting my shares (if i was a member) somewhat for the investment and just as important the expertise that would hopefully come with it but not to have any shares in the club, that will be a hard sell to Foras Members.

[El-Pietro]

From what I can gather, the sale of these clauses was necessitated by a change in the mood of revenue. It seems we had an agreement on repayment of outstanding debt with them, but they decided they wanted immediate payment from us and the other clubs who were not granted licenses last week. I don't know what caused this change in mood, but I would speculate Limericks collapse didn't help.

[sbgawa]

good luck against Shels tonight.

[Martinho II]

Think he suffered a family bereavement last year and citied wanting to spend more time with family.

I thought I heard that he had differences with Sinn Fein as his reason maybe that I am wrong on this but that is what I heard!

[outspoken]

I thought I heard that he had differences with Sinn Fein as his reason maybe that I am wrong on this but that is what I heard!

Yeah you are wrong

[Kingdom]

I assume thats a dig at Jon O'Brien? He was City chairman several years again but has not been heavily involved in recent years. Hes was also one of the few individuals who knew what he doing when questioning the FAI during the various hearings.

Its a real pity he chose to step down from the Dáil, he would have made a fantastic minister for Sport, but hopefully he can become more involved with FORAS again.

There's no reason he couldn't be Minister for Sport just because he's not in the Dáil. He could be nominated to the Seanad and be appointed Minister from there.

[Mr A]

We don’t have a sell on

Even without one, if I understand the FIFA rules right, Sligo and his previous clubs would be due 0.5% of any fee for each year he spent with them from 12-21, so a really big transfer could have been a nice windfall for Rovers and even more so his schoolboy club!

[nr637]

This topic should have been titled Cash injection for Revenue

[joey B]

https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/Cork-City-were-hours-away-from-going-out-of-business-as-takeover-by-Preston-owner-remains-on-the-agenda-50da3bff-267a-4dc6-b432-c0c3c66dbb7a-ds

Hours from going out of business apparently ........

[Mr A]

That's frightening. How did it go so wrong so quickly?!?

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

This is crazy. Where was all the money wasted? (Well apart from on the duds ye took off us with a couple of notable exceptions)

[Breifne]

That's frightening. How did it go so wrong so quickly?!?

A perfect example of how chasing the European dream isn’t a viable course of action for League clubs without deep pockets, benefactors or actually reaching a group stage.

But then I suppose there was no warning signs that it might be a bad idea, it’s not like it has happened before in the last decade or two, unless you count Cork, Drogheda, Derry, Shelbourne, Limerick FC, Limerick 37, Limerick City, Shamrock Rovers, Bray, Sporting Fingal, Dublin City, Dundalk, Waterford, Athlone, Bohs, Kildare County or a few other clubs who went under or were very close to it with serious financial issues.

[El-Pietro]

To summarise - we had a very difficult year last year. We budgeted for much larger crowds than we eventually got. I can tell you that when the budget was proposed the AGM was full of very angry people last year but the budget was eventually passed. Then on top of that there was the VAT issues that were in the papers in October/November.

We looked at restructuring debt and agreeing a repayment schedule with the revenue. I'm not going to get into detail, it would be wrong for me to share specifics, but the mood at Revnue and Banks changed over the winter. Its reasonable to assume the situation with the FAI (Shane Ross saying the FAI could go away), and Limerick folding had a knock on effect. It also seems that the licensing was far more strict than in previous years surrounding non football/revenue debts.

We weren't the only club who were denied a license originally. I think there were 5 in total? I don't know what the situations were for each of those clubs, or even who they were, but our problem is we don't have the ability to put in a significant amount of money at short notice. We were able to come to an agreement on a significant portion of the total debt but Revenue and FAI turned around and said you need to clear it all, and you need to clear it all today. Thats how we got so close to disappearing entirely. If Pats for example were in our situation, they have a wealthy owner who can plug the gap, same for Dundalk, Waterford and others. For the likes of us, and Sligo, being asked to produce six figure sums at short notice is virtually impossible. We should have been more cautious in the first place and not allowed ourselves to get into this position.

[Nesta99]

I think what is a surprise to people is that it got so close to Cork folding and there being very little coverage on it until the last ditch fix. It was also speculated pretty early last season, even by fans of other clubs who werent privy to much info, that if Cork have budgeted for a tilt at the title, European qualification, and crowds hitting 4k regularly, the league psoition was going to have them badly stretched. It was a forseeable situation from the utside looking in
Some remedial action happened when JC was sacked and Cork were trying to offload the bigger earners but could more have been done? Surely an EGM was called about the potentiall precarious finances also or were the BoM scrambling to sort things out. The revenue debt may have been unexpectedly called in but that debt was there 18 months before a 3 figure sum was demanded. If a payment plan had been put in place say a year earlier, the Revenue couldnt have rolled up demanding a lump sum suddenly. It seems plausible that the Revenue got ansty 'cause of the length of time that the tax bill was outstanding and then compounded by the circumstances at the FAI and even Limerick. Either way the BoM seemed to be asleep at the wheell!

[Real ale Madrid]

The rumor is - and this was not mentioned at the meeting - there were 5 other PREMIER DIVISION LOI clubs who found themselves in exactly the same position as us last week. ( i.e. had initial problems securing a licence) But we are the only one that it has been made public so far. ( Just to clarify - I have no proof of this.- this is just a rumour )

Edit - sorry mentioned by El-P above also.

[sbgawa]

i heard that too but i think some of the issues were just sloppiness or omissions rather than major issues.
In the past they would have been ignored

[Real ale Madrid]

i heard that too but i think some of the issues were just sloppiness or omissions rather than major issues.
In the past they would have been ignored

I heard otherwise and it was down to more fundamental issues regarding ability to service debt. Safe to say that there has been a sea change with how the licencing rules are now being enforced.

[El-Pietro]

I think what is a surprise to people is that it got so close to Cork folding and there being very little coverage on it until the last ditch fix. It was also speculated pretty early last season, even by fans of other clubs who werent privy to much info, that if Cork have budgeted for a tilt at the title, European qualification, and crowds hitting 4k regularly, the league psoition was going to have them badly stretched. It was a forseeable situation from the utside looking in
Some remedial action happened when JC was sacked and Cork were trying to offload the bigger earners but could more have been done? Surely an EGM was called about the potentiall precarious finances also or were the BoM scrambling to sort things out. The revenue debt may have been unexpectedly called in but that debt was there 18 months before a 3 figure sum was demanded. If a payment plan had been put in place say a year earlier, the Revenue couldnt have rolled up demanding a lump sum suddenly. It seems plausible that the Revenue got ansty 'cause of the length of time that the tax bill was outstanding and then compounded by the circumstances at the FAI and even Limerick. Either way the BoM seemed to be asleep at the wheell!
I can assure you that our current BOM have been extremely transparent and worked very hard to get the license in place, and to make sure we were able to play our home game against Shelbourne.

What you are saying sounds fair in principal, but the timing meant it wasn't possible. For example the
Revenue situation only became apparent in 2019, I don't know exactly when but we didn't know we owed them anything 18 months ago. It wasn't unpaid taxes, we were paying taxes but we were claiming tax back incorrectly. We were one of a number of sporting organisations to make the same mistake. It has never been made clear exactly what we did wrong.

Without getting into too much detail the club were working with the revenue over the winter and believed they had agreement on a repayment schedule. It was only in the last week or so leading up to the license date that revenue made it clear that a repayment scheme would not be agreed to. This allowed very little time to solve the issue, and an EGM would not have solved anything. It would have taken time away from the board that they needed to solve the problems.

The BOM were not asleep at the wheel, they have been fighting fires pretty much constantly since last summer at least. The club is currently financial stable thanks to our current board, but now we have to ask questions about what we do going forward.

[sbgawa]

I would give major Kudos to whomever did the deal with Preston.
Given how close to the precipice you were you did well to get a decent few bob off Preston before they smelt blood

[Martinho II]

If Jonathan O Brien wasnt a TD do the Cork City fans think that the financial scenario would have still happened?