Impressed by Church of Ireland

[Shelsman]

Did anyone hear the interview ( on radio 1 5/7 Live ) with the head of the Church of Ireland called for changes in Society to suit better family life, particularly to get around the problem of parents leaving children in for long days while they have to commute to and from Dublin.
Anytime I've heard or spoken with representatives of the Church of Ireland I've always been impressed by them. IMO, They are far more in touch with reality than the Catholic Church ( which is hardly surprising if Catholic Priests can't have families etc ).

I don't want to kick off a religious row on foot.ie but was just wondering if anyone else had any similar thoughts?

[tiktok]

IMO, They are far more in touch with reality than the Catholic Church ( which is hardly surprising if Catholic Priests can't have families etc )

Bit of a generalisation, but probably true. :)

[paul_oshea]

do you think there may be a reason for this? I mean its a bit naive, but if they show themselves as being in touch with modern ireland, they could see it as a way of gaining more followers. just a suggestion.

[Macy]

Many of the protestant churches have elements that are a big improvement on the Catholic Church.

For example, the United Reform church you chose which minister you go to - they don't have a Parish as such, so no problems if there's a dick of priest.

Anglican Priests tend to be more in touch, because as you say they're truely part of the community. Married with kids, so mixing with the parish the whole time, not just preaching from a pulpit about things they can't understand and have never lived through themselves.

Interestingly, the vast majority of "good" priests I've met/had dealings with, have been late vocations. In England there is a trend towards widowers becoming priests - far more understanding than equivalent age priests that haven't lived before they joined the priesthood.

[dahamsta]

It's not like that paul_oshea, the Church of Ireland is just more liberal and easygoing in general. If your suggestion were the case, the Catholic church should be crawling over each other to be that way right now, since they've alienated most of their congregations by being the exact opposite.

(A family member is a non-practicing prod, so it comes up sometimes.)

adam

[fosterdollar]

Whatever about the other issues, the approach to the one described above is probably the same for both religions. I mean who TF thinks that leaving kids away from both parents for long periods of time while the parents crack up in the commuter system is a desireable situation?

[Macy]

Whatever about the other issues, the approach to the one described above is probably the same for both religions. I mean who TF thinks that leaving kids away from both parents for long periods of time while the parents crack up in the commuter system is a desireable situation?
When have the Catholic Church ever said anything about it though? They'd rather get their knickers in a twist about an agency providing pregnant women with information about the full range of options....

[paul_oshea]

about the full range of options....

...yes macy, but some of those options are extremely sensitive issues. :rolleyes:

[fosterdollar]

When have the Catholic Church ever said anything about it though? They'd rather get their knickers in a twist about an agency providing pregnant women with information about the full range of options....

No public statements on social strategy, if you like, from the CC come to mind. By the same token, that post up there is the first such statement i've ever noticed from the COI. Still, that is likely to be due to the fact that statements from either crew don't tend to grab my attention easily. I do have a feeling that the CC would have made similar statements in public before though. Okay, i'm not basing this on anything i know for fact, but it's a fair assumption, no?

BTW didn't some figure of authority (from the CC) push for involvement in FF's strategy/program forming get together thing in Cork last time round and social policy was his key input...

FF to Macy - red rag to bull. Here we go... ;)

[Shelsman]

What is the CC stance on the pill? Is it only jonnies they are against? Does the COI let their ministers use them?

[liam88]

You all know where I stand so i'm not going to get into this one.......sensitive topics though; touch on people's beliefs and it's all going to go up...
Want to talk to me about abortion/marriage/the pill PM and i'm well up for a chat just not here-to much possibility of people getting offended (or banned!)

[Troy.McClure]

What is the CC stance on the pill? Is it only jonnies they are against?

No its artificial contracception in general.

[paul_oshea]

Is it only jonnies they are against?

ya, i can see it now, my local priest, "tis alright now if ye use jonnies good ladín". :rolleyes:


No its artificial contracception in general.

huh? what other sort of contraception is there? the "pull it out when in doubt" contraception? :confused: :confused:

[dahamsta]

I'm pretty sure that the withdrawal method (aka coitus interruptus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus)) is the only form of contraception endorsed by the catholic church.

adam

[paul_oshea]

ok i was only messin, but is that the truth? i.e. what i said above as i have never heard that expression before.

i actually thought that they didnt allow it unless you were trying to conceive a child

[liam88]

I'm pretty sure that the withdrawal method (aka coitus interruptus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus)) is the only form of contraception endorsed by the catholic church.

adam

Aye the good old pull out and prey! Like the article says it only has a failure of 4% if used properly.....the pill has a failure of 5%.
The rhythem method is another good one-put on sopme Drum and Base music by your bed and your away :D :D :ball: :ball:

[Gerrit]

I'm pretty sure that the withdrawal method (aka coitus interruptus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus)) is the only form of contraception endorsed by the catholic church.

adam

Research showed us that many people following a religion in which sex before marriage is forbidden or anticonception is forbidden, have 5 times more anal intercourse than others. Given the health risks of this form of sex, I doubt that the religions forbidding condom or pill have fully researched the topic.

Though we're on dangerous territory discussing this at a football forum.
Religion is a very personal thing and (unless we actually see the apocalypse and judgement day :) ) there is no such thing IMO as the "better or worse religion". As long as respect towards every belief is there, I think we should not start comparing religions in a matter of "which one is better ?"

[Gerrit]

I once read a religious magazine that compared religion as being the opposite of composing a sandwich :eek: "In a sandwich you chose the ingredients you like and leave out the ones you don't like. In religion you have to chose for it entirely and not leave out Bible passages that you like less." Nice one, really well written I'd say :D

[liam88]

I once read a religious magazine that compared religion as being the opposite of composing a sandwich :eek: "In a sandwich you chose the ingredients you like and leave out the ones you don't like. In religion you have to chose for it entirely and not leave out Bible passages that you like less." Nice one, really well written I'd say :D

:D I like that-I'll follow whatever my Pope and my church says because I believe it is the word of God.
I think it is great that this has reached 20 posts without becomming an argument....mabye quit while we're ahead? take it a little at a time like?
I believe in what John Paul the Great said-the division of the Christian church is a sin and every effort should be made to unite it (not exact wording). Hopefully this will be a reailty in our lifetime :)

[Gerrit]

With the smiley in your post it's difficult to see if this war irony or not...

But in fact it doesn't matter. I as a non-religious belief that respect towards everyone's believes or non-believes is the key to the end of interreligious problems. So no matter if it was serious or not, I respect your opinion. I have friends of all sorts of religions, makes no difference for me as long as both sides have respect.

[liam88]

With the smiley in your post it's difficult to see if this war irony or not...


Sorry-it was sincere

[Green Tribe]

Research showed us that many people following a religion in which sex before marriage is forbidden or anticonception is forbidden, have 5 times more anal intercourse than others. Given the health risks of this form of sex, I doubt that the religions forbidding condom or pill have fully researched the topic.

?"

Gerrit, where the hell did you hear that? :eek: That's rotten! :eek: :eek:

[paul_oshea]

im sorry i cant beleive that either.

[Schumi]

I'm pretty sure that the withdrawal method (aka coitus interruptus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus)) is the only form of contraception endorsed by the catholic church.

adam
Thought that wasn't allowed either.

[Éanna]

in my (very) limited experience I have found it to be true that are more progressive and more vocal elements in the COI. But its also true to say that some Catholic priests would be even more progressive and straight-talking, unfortunately for them, the quasi-facist hierarchy of that church usually forces them into silence.

[Shelsman]

I'm pretty sure that the withdrawal method (aka coitus interruptus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus)) is the only form of contraception endorsed by the catholic church.

adam

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this all about 'every sp-rm is sacred' ? If that is the case then the above method is just as big a waste! So does this mean that you have a wet dream that you are in the bad books?

[Jim Smith]

So does this mean that you have a wet dream that you are in the bad books?If you had borrowed my sleeping bag, then yes :eek:

[paul_oshea]

So does this mean that you have a wet dream that you are in the bad books?

you are fooked, if so shelsman

[Green Tribe]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this all about 'every sp-rm is sacred' ? If that is the case then the above method is just as big a waste! So does this mean that you have a wet dream that you are in the bad books?

Isn't it just the Rhythm Method that is allowed, abstaining during ovulation.?

[Green Tribe]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this all about 'every sp-rm is sacred' ? If that is the case then the above method is just as big a waste! So does this mean that you have a wet dream that you are in the bad books?

You'll go straight to hell with those wet dreams Shelsman! :D

[paul_oshea]

Isn't it just the Rhythm Method that is allowed, abstaining during ovulation.?

is that your method? did you clarify that with the local priest? and why have the capital letters? i actually have to say, it is credit to the posters on this forum that this subject has remained in good taste without any defamation etc. :cool:

[Green Tribe]

is that your method? did you clarify that with the local priest? and why have the capital letters? i actually have to say, it is credit to the posters on this forum that this subject has remained in good taste without any defamation etc. :cool:

:mad: :D

The priest wasn't too keen at first, but he's ok with it now. We just have 6 children ;) :D

[paul_oshea]

We just have 6 children

it worked well then! ye would have had a lot more otherwise!

[Green Tribe]

it worked well then! ye would have had a lot more otherwise!

:D :eek: :D

[liam88]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this all about 'every sp-rm is sacred' ? If that is the case then the above method is just as big a waste! So does this mean that you have a wet dream that you are in the bad books?
Sperm arn't sacred-that's a misconception (helped along by Monty Python).
Catholicism teaches that human life is sacred and that human life begins at the moment of conception.
The issue is that sex should be for the pupouse of reproduction i.e. if you are having sex it is up to God whether a baby is concieved or not-otherwise you are right, a wet dream would be genocide-which it is not.

[paul_oshea]

The issue is that sex should be for the pupouse of reproduction

see thats where wording helps out, technically what you are saying is that the catholic church only condone sex in the case that you are trying to reproduce, but it is up to god whether you are successful, so you can have sex as much as you want under the pretense that you are trying to conceive. is that correct?

see that is where i thought that you were only allowed to have sex to reproduce i.e. around ovulation time.

that also makes sense as the point about ivf treatment is now being raised by the government, because the church see it as "improper intervention", as its god s choice whether or not you should conceive or whether a child is to be created even. is that correct all-knowning liam? :p

[liam88]

all-knowning liam?
:confused: :(

[paul_oshea]

sorry liam i was only messin, you seem to know so i was just wondering sorry :o

[lopez]

I'm pretty sure that the withdrawal method (aka coitus interruptus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus)) ...AKA in my crib as 'The John Holmes Method.' :D

Rome issued a statement a few years back written by Cardinal Ratsinger (who is now the Pope) which stated that the other Christian churches are
not churches in the proper sense and are not recieving the christian faith in its entirety.You'll find most religions are like that. Talking 'happy, feely' with the CoI is one thing. Try the same with the Free Presbyterians or the Jehovah's Witnesses next time they knock on your door about the virtues of the RC church and they'll both claim you follow 'the whore of Rome,' as mentioned in the book of Revelations.

Research showed us that many people following a religion in which sex before marriage is forbidden or anticonception is forbidden, have 5 times more anal intercourse than others. Given the health risks of this form of sex, I doubt that the religions forbidding condom or pill have fully researched the topic.
Actually I'd agree that there is some truth to this. Don't know about research but anecdotal evidence suggests that the 'silver ring thing' being promoted in the US as a Christian alternative to pre-marital sex increases oral sex (and some anal sex). I think, like most things, people should take a responsible approach to this subject, in this case to sex before marriage.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Bejaysus ...we're on page three and no ones ****ed in the holy water yet.

Good going you guys and gals.

I think it was Dylan Thomas who said "You must respect the other fellows religious belief -but only as far as you respect his belief that his wife is pretty and his children intelligent."

let's keep that in mind and we'll all be fine.

The late JP2 of the RCC had less than no interest whatsoever in ecumenism. His vision of uniting the christian church involved the other christian churches -be they protestant, Eastern Orthodox, gnostic or Cathar -copping on to themselves and coming back into the fold.

As for any of those churches uniting within our lifetime -I'd say you'd get meaner odds down the bookies on any of them ceasing to exist within our lifetime.

[Gerrit]

Gerrit, where the hell did you hear that? :eek: That's rotten! :eek: :eek:

what do you mean with 'rotten' ? :confused: Sounds almost like you are stating anal sex is wrong... IMO people do whatever floats their boat in their sexual life, as long as both agree. Don't forget anal sex is a rather normal form when you know some people do SM, bondage, watersports... Now that's where I think is crossed a line of good taste, but that's just for myself - as long as both agree no one has the right to tell a couple what to do or what not to do.

And it is true, research did show many couples that follow the exact papal words do have very frequent anal intercourse as technically you are still a virgin when penetration does not go via the vagina. Thus in the exact meaning, anal sex does not stop you from reaching your wedding night as a virgin...
IMO it's a very double standard and I find it a bit weird that people would actually believe this themselves ; I guess it's more like "we want to have sex, but as we're technically not allowed from our religion, let's search a way around that problem and do anything but regular coitus"

It's one of the unlogical things really... In Islam you have many of those tricks to surround certain religious laws. Guess people want to stay true to their faith but sometimes just cannot ban themselves from pleasures and needs. Which is only human.

[Green Tribe]

errrr...I am going to be a chicken and not say too much cos I don't want this thread getting out of hand :o :D It's just my personal opinion, it makes me cringe, I don't see the need for it, but as you say, people are free as consenting adults to do what they want.

Ok, I await the backlash, I'm hiding in the corner :D

[lopez]

errrr...I am going to be a chicken and not say too much cos I don't want this thread getting out of hand :o :D It's just my personal opinion, it makes me cringe, I don't see the need for it, but as you say, people are free as consenting adults to do what they want.

Ok, I await the backlash, I'm hiding in the corner :DCan't say it does much for me either, but then I'm a bloke. Seriously, it is a double standard in the religious sense, as Gerrit says, although one that is the result of the pressure cooker of abstaining from sex before marriage, but it is also a dangerous double standard. Gay bloke I work with has told me the current and potential 'medical problems' associated with his sexuality and it doesn't make for family reading.

[Green Tribe]

Can't say it does much for me either, but then I'm a bloke. Seriously, it is a double standard in the religious sense, as Gerrit says, although one that is the result of the pressure cooker of abstaining from sex before marriage, but it is also a dangerous double standard. Gay bloke I work with has told me the current and potential 'medical problems' associated with his sexuality and it doesn't make for family reading.


I don't want to even imagine! :eek:

That's a relief, thought I was going to get a boll*cking there, suppose I'll have to wait until Gerrit comes on and then I'll get a lecture... :rolleyes: :D

[paul_oshea]

lopez im not being funny, but what are the implications? i wasnt aware of any unless bowel problems or something. or the muscle wears away?

i remember someone telling me that some guys had to put certain things meant for women up there in order to stop certain things coming out without being controlled. :eek: :eek:

[Green Tribe]

lopez im not being funny, but what are the implications? i wasnt aware of any unless bowel problems or something. or the muscle wears away?

i remember someone telling me that some guys had to put certain things meant for women up there in order to stop certain things coming out without being controlled. :eek: :eek:

:eek: :eek:

(KT is vomiting out the window)

[Green Tribe]

I would imagine the muscle would be a problem, as it is not er..'designed' to expand ...that much ;) :D

Any experts here care to explain??!! :D

[paul_oshea]

Any experts here care to explain??!!

you mean anyone honest enough here to explain!! :p :p

[Green Tribe]

yeah! :D

[Gerrit]

Em, why would you get a lecture ? I will make a confession here: getting something in there is not really my ideal fantasy as well, on the contrary. Maybe as being the shipper with a female receiver it's different (as in: not that different from "regular"), but I wouldn't propose it to my future partner so I don't think anal intercourse is something you'll see me practising very soon as well. So no lecture for you, KT.

This said, you never know of course. My experience is that making statements as "I will never do this/that" is quite dangerous and often you get the boomerang right back in the face... Who knows I get awake tomorrow after a night out, not knowing anymore what happened, with a girl next to me who complains about problems sitting down :eek: Luckily it's very unlikely to happen as I am a non-alcohol consumer !
But my point is: never say never. I once said my dad in a not that far away past I would not want a relationship, and despite me being still single I do have a (very very limited) record of chased girls since I left to Ireland :eek: So I am not wild about making statements such as 'never this' or 'never that', though I must say I do about parental issues.



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