Glory Hunters

[Dublin12]

I used to drink in a pub near Grafton St a few years ago and got to know one of the lads behind the bar,an Aussie lad,we were always having good football banter ,and he, at the time, was well into Leeds,even said he'd been to Elland rd a few times,he used to wear a Leeds T-shirt,and had a scarf behind the bar aswell and me being a lifelong Leeds fan since 1970 thought this was sound.Anyway moved out to the suburbs of Dublin a couple of years ago and don't drink in that pub anymore.
So,there I was in Sinnotts last week for the Liverpool/Chelsea game,and guess who I saw,jumping up and down,biting his nails,shouting at the big screen..yes the same lad,only this time he was wearing a Liverpool shirt :mad: :mad: ,apparently he now likes Liverpool because Harry Kewell plays for them :rolleyes: ,pathetic.There was no point in even having a discussion about it, whats the point I thought,there are certain unwritten rules for supporters and he certainly got a red card for that.

[OwlsFan]

That's life. Most Man U supporters are either glory hunters or bow to the peer pressure as kids in the class to follow them. My godchild followed Wednesday and I brought him to Hillsboro a few times but then his mother drew me aside and told me he was now following Man U because he was getting too much slagging following Wednesday at school :o .

I never regretted following Wednesday. You stand apart from the Man U and Liverpool supporters (and the Leeds ones in their mid to late 30s). People always remember who I support while Man U supporters are just one of the herd of millions of wildebeast who trample across the plains. They win a lot more (which wouldn't be hard) but dare to be different - that's my motto.

The Irish team that I followed of the early 1970s was also taken from me by the media following Italia 90 but sometimes it's nice to be successful :D

[drinkfeckarse]

I used to drink in a pub near Grafton St a few years ago and got to know one of the lads behind the bar,an Aussie lad,we were always having good football banter ,and he, at the time, was well into Leeds,even said he'd been to Elland rd a few times,he used to wear a Leeds T-shirt,and had a scarf behind the bar aswell and me being a lifelong Leeds fan since 1970 thought this was sound.Anyway moved out to the suburbs of Dublin a couple of years ago and don't drink in that pub anymore.
So,there I was in Sinnotts last week for the Liverpool/Chelsea game,and guess who I saw,jumping up and down,biting his nails,shouting at the big screen..yes the same lad,only this time he was wearing a Liverpool shirt :mad: :mad: ,apparently he now likes Liverpool because Harry Kewell plays for them :rolleyes: ,pathetic.There was no point in even having a discussion about it, whats the point I thought,there are certain unwritten rules for supporters and he certainly got a red card for that.

That is fcuking pathetic...what a gobsh!te :rolleyes:

[carrickharp]

That is fcuking pathetic...what a gobsh!te :rolleyes:
WHAT an Aussie gobsh1te :p

[Hibs4Ever]

The 2 main clubs with Glory Hunters IMO is Man Utd & Celtic, like last night, this is proven by the half empty stadiums 20 minutes before the end of a match they know they've lost. Now the Liverpool fans seem to be coming out of their closets again, and it won't be long til you'll be seeing Chelsea fans EVERYWHERE. I remember reading that last christmas Real Madrid was the biggest selling jersey in Ireland. WHY :confused: :confused:


And Owlsfan, you think you had it bad, try growing up as a HIBS fan in Dublin :eek:

[pete]

Almost any Chelsea supporter these days is going to be a glory hunter. Chelsea have no history of irish support through the decades & lot of them were probably outright anti-irish.

[Macy]

You just couldn't move for trophies throughout the 70's and 80's when United were still the most supported club. All glory hunters obviously.....

Leaving early is bad, but sure you see it in eL grounds every week too. Nowt to do with being glory hunters.

[Heinze]

That's life. Most Man U supporters are either glory hunters or bow to the peer pressure as kids in the class to follow them.

I think you'll find that is a load of ******, Owlsfan if you'll excuse my french! Fans of "unfasionable" clubs are always coming out with this ****e as if its fact, that and the old "most of the crowd at OT aren't from Manchester you know" Its reckoned that 75-80% of those at OT are from the Greater Manchester area and in Ireland their are long family traditions of United support due to immigration to Manchester, same can be said for 'Pool, Leeds and Arsenal. Celtic is a different kettle of fish.
Some of us grew up in the 70's and 80's you know and if supporting United then was Glory hunting well they you are right, but I think you'll find Glory was thin on the ground in those days.
so I suggest you keep these sweeping generalisations to yourself. Obviously you are upset that your Godson not appreciating having the Owls shoved on him made his own decision to support United as is his right!

[drinkfeckarse]

The 2 main clubs with Glory Hunters IMO is Man Utd & Celtic,


It's one thing being a glory hunter, it's another thing completely to change teams like that...especially as an adult :eek:

[OwlsFan]

Some of us grew up in the 70's and 80's you know and if supporting United then was Glory hunting well they you are right, but I think you'll find Glory was thin on the ground in those days.so I suggest you keep these sweeping generalisations to yourself. Obviously you are upset that your Godson not appreciating having the Owls shoved on him made his own decision to support United as is his right!

European Cup a few years before, George Best, Bobbie Charlton - in every newspaper, TV etc at the time. No, it was still huge to follow Man U in those days as well. No one expected them to drop out of the 1st Division - that comes with following a team - so having run with the hounds, there were a few years they had to flee with the foxes. Your analogy of emigration to Manchester doesn't stand up - so why so few City fans then ?

You can't shove the Owls on anyone - believe you me. However, your passion for something can rub off. But the point of that story is peer pressure to follow successful teams.

Saint - well done on following Hibs. Why did u choose them over any other Scottish team ? By right, the two Edinburgh teams should be as strong as their Glasgow neighbours but for historical and other less savoury reasons they've lost out.

I know a Chelsea supporter of long standing. One of the most nationalistic people you could meet and their NF connections among some of their supporters never seemed to bother him. I think he goes back to the days of John Dempsey and Paddy Mulligan.

A football club, like a pet, is for life :D

[4tothefloor]

My younger brother started off supporting Liverpool, then when the glory dried up he supported Leeds, Rangers :eek: , Man U, Celtic, before settling on Man U. I'll grant it he was young at the time, but I always remind him of with whenever he attempts to gloat. I've been a Liverpool\Limerick fan through thick and thin all my life, since I can remember watching football.

[Bolnoy Bratchny]

The 2 main clubs with Glory Hunters IMO is Man Utd & Celtic

As a Celtic fan would agree that, as with any club that gets a bit of success, a number of muppets who have never been near Celtic park have jumped on the band wagon. It sickens me to see the way Celtic jerseys have become the jesrsey of choice for every Chav, 45 degree baseball cap , white runners&tracky bottoms and gold chain hangin outside the jersey wearing d***head.

But the vast majority of these people are not real Celtic fans and know nothing about the club.

People paint all Celtic fans with the same brush but most of the people i meet attending games in Glasgow and Europe (inc. 52k season book holders) are genuine and lifelong Celtic fans.

Lads, next time ye see the fool in Celtic jersey talking crap about the RA (even though he left school at 11 and cant even spell history) from a barstool dont assume he is representative of all tic fans.

[tetsujin1979]

I've a mate at home who used to be an Arsenal fan, wore the jersey, bought one for his son, everything. Then he fell out of love with football and watched rugby more and more. Which is all fair enough until this season, for a laugh he joined one of the fantasy football leagues in, and picked Frank Lampard as his captain. Since Chelsea, and Frank in particular, have done so well this season, and earned him tons of points in the fantasy football, he's now a Chelsea fan!

[Gerrit]

I usually dislike top teams. Shels and Rosenborg are rare exceptions, in most countries I support small teams. And even so... In Ireland there are no really big clubs, and though Rosenborg is big in its own country they aren't in Europe + I follow them for 11 years so from the very beginning of what has become an incredible domestic success story.

When everyone around me supports one team/sporter I usually chose the other side because I don't like the "we are the biggest and best and greatest" thing, I always feel more sympathy for the underdog. In some countries I even support non topdivision teams (eg Ceuta - Spain, Vanspor - Turkey, Venezia - Italy)

I can understand someone changes a club for a certain reason if for example the atmosphere has changed so negatively that he doesn't recognise the feeling of friendship that once made him start to support the club. But those are exceptional cases, very exceptional. In general: stick with whatever team you chose.


I know someone BTW who changed club, but I have to forgive him for it, because he HAD to: his first choice merged with the arch-enemy and the new team went to play in the enemy's stadium. In such cases I can understand you give up the club, because it's simply not your club anymore. That's the sort of exceptions I mean.

If Shels would merge with Pats, I would probably feel like a loved one has been taken away and finally recognise what Rovers fan experience: being homeless :D

[Gerrit]

My younger brother started off supporting Liverpool, then when the glory dried up he supported Leeds, Rangers :eek: , Man U, Celtic, before settling on Man U. I'll grant it he was young at the time, but I always remind him of with whenever he attempts to gloat. I've been a Liverpool\Limerick fan through thick and thin all my life, since I can remember watching football.

He supported both Rangers and Celtic in life ?? :eek: Wow, that is the sort of lad Jerry Springer could do a show with: a unicum in a freaky way :D



I had a classmate back in my school days who supported the same team as me. When they were about to relegate I sticked with the team, while he left for another club. Two weeks later that club lost, and he started to support the club that won that game. When they also started to lose a short while later, he ditched football and became a basketball adept...

I lost track of him, but given the fact that we are 10 years later, he may have ran out of sports to support by now ;) Or maybe he found a never losing team somewhere in waterpolo or handball or so :D

[4tothefloor]

He supported both Rangers and Celtic in life ?? :eek: Wow, that is the sort of lad Jerry Springer could do a show with

Yup, he was only about 7 at the time though and Ally McCoist was his favourite player. It was purely because Rangers were winning everything back then, he was only 7! As he grew older and started learning the history, the posters suddenly disappeared off the wall. Replaced by Scumchester United ones, and gradually Celtic ones. He kind of supports both teams now, but more Utd than Celtic. From the frying pan into the fire :D

[Bosco]

Chose to support aston villa when I was 5 because my friend told me about them and everyone else supported utd.Went to villa park twice as a young lad and was pretty mutch a fanatic.Gradually began to become more and more of a lapsed supporter as ltfc took over at this stage,I really dont care,looking out for the results every now and again is as far as I go.Like to see them do well but whether they win or lose it rarely has an affect on me.
People who change clubs doesnt really get to me,usually they dont really know alot about football let alone what it is to be a fan.If your going to "PICK" a foreign club to support,pick who you want,its unlikely they will ever have any real affiliation with the club

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well let me see now. I was very fortunate as I have pointed out elsewhere my primary schoolteacher was a Waterford fan. So he was an influence on me eventually becoming an EL fan. But there were few if any in my class at the time. I went to see Shels play in 1972 and Rovers play in 1973 and I think I was one of a very small minority who had been inside a League of Ireland ground at that stage. There 50 kids in the class 35 lads and 15 girls for the record.

I spent a few years in the Giles era watching out for Leeds United results. BUt the first team I ever saw play in person were Shels back in 1972 against Finn Harps. Saw Rovers play (Glasgow not Cork) Celtic in 1973, Bohs play Home Farm in 1975, Rovers play Drogs the following year and in 1977 saw Sligo Rovers play Blackburn in a friendly and Thurles Town in the League. Went to my first UCD game in 1981 when they took on a Vancouver Whitecaps team peopled by ex-1970's Leeds players.
UCD held them to a 1-1 draw. And that was it I was a student and these guys became MY team! So you could say in a manner of speaking my years of delusion watching out for Leeds results( never stepped inside Elland Road) eventually led me to the true faith that is the EL.
I will never be a Premiershi* heretic again :D

[thecorner]

chose to support palace at the start of the 80's. i remember readin in shoot that with venables in charge they would be the force to reckon with in the 80s :eek:

still with them though

[razor]

No greater crime can a person commit than to change football teams.
Buddy of mine followed Leeds when we were younger, then when Leeds got relegated he said he had to have a First Division (as it was then)team as well so he went for Manure, then Leeds came back up and were vying with Utd for the title God he was a mess. Still follows Utd to this day but none of us can really take him seriously.
All the Chelsea fans I know are well into their 40's and have been Chelsea fans for many years, no problem at all with these people.
4tothefloor, do you think your brother finally settling on Utd may have been in direct opposition to you following Pool? Cos thats what happened in our house.

[Hitman]

So you could say in a manner of speaking my years of delusion watching out for Leeds results( never stepped inside Elland Road) eventually led me to the true faith that is the EL.
I will never be a Premiershi* heretic again :D

I think that's going to be the case for anyone following Leeds.

[Dublin12]

TUT TUT Hitman, by the way College check out the Championship,much better than the Premiership ;)

[Colm55]

[QUOTE=razor
4tothefloor, do you think your brother finally settling on Utd may have been in direct opposition to you following Pool? Cos thats what happened in our house.[/QUOTE]

that happened in my gaff, I got a Manchester united 1988/1989 annual, christmas 1988, (still have it, makes for some great reading) when i was a mere seven years old, My brother who is two years my senior got the liverpool one, ever since i've followed Manchester United, and hes followed Liverpool !

[colster]

That's life. Most Man U supporters are either glory hunters or bow to the peer pressure as kids in the class to follow them. :D

That's a very sweeping statement. You could say the same about most Liverpool supporters in the 70's and 80's when I started supporting United. There was a lot of peer pressure to support Pool back then.
There wasn't much glory to be had for United supporters back then.

[Hibs4Ever]

There wasn't much glory to be had for United supporters back then.[/QUOTE]


And there won't be much more for a long time to come either :D

[colster]

There wasn't much glory to be had for United supporters back then.


And there won't be much more for a long time to come either :D[/QUOTE]

9 days ain't too long :)

[Dublin12]

There was a time not so long ago when Manu considered the fa cup not good enough to even enter the competition,now it's the last resort for a bit of silverware :rolleyes:

[Macy]

There was a time not so long ago when Manu considered the fa cup not good enough to even enter the competition,now it's the last resort for a bit of silverware :rolleyes:
And how much have the feeder club won in the last few years?

[Dublin12]

Im not too familiar with Royal Antwerp myself,perhaps you could let me know :D

[4tothefloor]

4tothefloor, do you think your brother finally settling on Utd may have been in direct opposition to you following Pool? Cos thats what happened in our house.

It was one of the reasons, he was a Liverpool fan for ages, had a couple of jerseys with Ronnie Whelans number 5 on the back, but the main reason was he was just a glory hunter basically.

[Éanna]

I just find the notion of someone "picking" a team utterly ridiculous, if they have no connection to that team. You pick a team because they're from your area, because you know a player, because your dad/mam was a fan, because it was the first team you ever saw in the flesh- not because they won something on the telly.

[thecorner]

I just find the notion of someone "picking" a team utterly ridiculous, if they have no connection to that team. You pick a team because they're from your area, because you know a player, because your dad/mam was a fan, because it was the first team you ever saw in the flesh- not because they won something on the telly.

do u want to explain madrid so

[4tothefloor]

Well I followed Liverpool because they had Ronnie Whelan, Lawernson, Beglin, and then Aldridge, Houghton, Staunton at the time. Whelan was, and still is, my favourite Liverpool and Irish player of all time. The football they played was class. I also started going to Ireland games around the same time, so seeing them in the flesh was a big thrill. Basically I followed Liverpool because of the Irish connection at the time. Since I started going to Liverpool, I've gotton to know the city and I love it. Great place, great people, even the Evertonians!

Of course in Irish football, you follow the team where you are born. However, following Limerick in the EL is not enough to feed my football appetite i'm afraid, and never has been. After 19 years of being a Liverpool supporter, there's no looking back now. What I don't understand is people who follow the EL preaching against supporting foreign clubs. It's basically just them being pi$$ed off with the state of Irish domestic football, a state caused by the morons who ran it when it was flying years ago, but invested nothing in return. It's Irish football's own fault that it is where it is today, not football fan's supporting foreign clubs.

[Éanna]

do u want to explain madrid so
gladly :D It was the first jersey I ever got (aged 6). First team I ever saw in the flesh- I was there when I was 10 and I went to see them training and got some autographs after the training session. That plus, my folks lived there for 2 years before i was born and I've been going back there on holidays since I was 2.

[thecorner]

gladly :D It was the first jersey I ever got (aged 6). First team I ever saw in the flesh- I was there when I was 10 and I went to see them training and got some autographs after the training session. That plus, my folks lived there for 2 years before i was born and I've been going back there on holidays since I was 2.

is eanna a spanish name then :D

[Éanna]

is eanna a spanish name then :D
yeah, kinda like brooklyn :p no, its a galway name actually

[Gerrit]

Well I followed Liverpool because they had Ronnie Whelan, Lawernson, Beglin, and then Aldridge, Houghton, Staunton at the time. Whelan was, and still is, my favourite Liverpool and Irish player of all time. The football they played was class. I also started going to Ireland games around the same time, so seeing them in the flesh was a big thrill. Basically I followed Liverpool because of the Irish connection at the time. Since I started going to Liverpool, I've gotton to know the city and I love it. Great place, great people, even the Evertonians!

Of course in Irish football, you follow the team where you are born. However, following Limerick in the EL is not enough to feed my football appetite i'm afraid, and never has been. After 19 years of being a Liverpool supporter, there's no looking back now. What I don't understand is people who follow the EL preaching against supporting foreign clubs. It's basically just them being pi$$ed off with the state of Irish domestic football, a state caused by the morons who ran it when it was flying years ago, but invested nothing in return. It's Irish football's own fault that it is where it is today, not football fan's supporting foreign clubs.
I don't agree with the "always support the local team" thing. Support the team you like most, for any reason, no matter if they're 1 km or 10000 km away. Preference for a club is the same as what music, women, art, movies, etc you like: it's an emotional thing that cannot always be rationally explained.

I support Ostend in Belgium ever since I seriously started to follow football (that was 12 years ago now) while I was born 70 km away from Ostend and never lived near the town until the 11th year of supporting the club when I actually lived in the city for a short while.
In national teams football, I am and remain a Norway fan. The Belgian national team doesn't move me, I don't care if they lose or not and will only watch them when there's nothing else to do. I support Norway as well when they are playing Belgium and went to the stadium even to cheer Norway against the Belgians. My favourite player Rushfeldt scored the equaliser so it was a tiptop evening for me :ball:

Support whatever team you like best. Just supporting a team because they're closest to your place is not a good reason IMO. Don't forget that it's not your city playing, it's just 11 players representing a sports club that happens to be based in your city. It's not because a club is named Liverpool FC that it is like the honour of Liverpool City is at stake ; the 11 players on the pitch may as well not even be from the town itself (I just pick LFC as an example, don't know if they have a Liverpudlian in the squad or not)

Same with national teams. Some of my friends back in my native country say I am 'wrong' because I don't support Belgium. They even say "at least I am a real Belgian". Nice one :rolleyes: 11 players having the Belgian citizenship does not mean that the team is Belgium ; it's just a team using the banner Belgium, but in the end it's just a team, you could just as well put 11 other players there and use the same name for the team...
The Norwegian squad contains some of my favourite players in the world. Why would I not support them while I have absolutely no emotional bond with the 11 players that are usually playing under the name Belgium ?? They all play for clubs that don't move me at all. I don't support against Belgium, I support against 11 players that THINK they are Belgium.

I see national teams the same as clubs: you pick the one you like most to support, for whatever reason. If it happens to be the country you live in, that's fine. If it's a country at the other end of the world, also fine. After all, you just support a team of 11 players you like, it's not like you actually support the country. Supporting the squad Brian Kerr selects does not mean you support Ireland as a state, you support just 11 players that represent a sports federations with office in Dublin.

And you don't need a valid reason to support a club/national team. Just the fact that for some reason you emotionally feel affection for the club is reason enough. There should not always be searched after a logical explanation for feelings of affection or disaffection. Same with love: feelings know no ratio, they just happen for some reason you can't explain. If it were as easy as "I like men/girls who look exactly like that and act exactly like that" it were very easy to find a perfect match, unfortunately (??) it doesn't work like that.

[mypost]

Some of my friends back in my native country say I am 'wrong' because I don't support Belgium. 11 players having the Belgian citizenship does not mean that the team is Belgium; it's just a team using the banner Belgium, I have absolutely no emotional bond with the 11 players that are usually playing under the name Belgium?? Supporting the squad Brian Kerr selects does not mean you support Ireland as a state, you support just 11 players that represent a sports federations with office in Dublin.

Choices in club football are different than International football. There should be no grey area when supporting national teams. You don't have a choice with International teams. If you're Irish, you support Ireland, if you're Brazilian, you support Brazil, and if you're Belgian, then you support Belgium. You should always, ALWAYS, support the country from where you are from. If we all followed your logic, we'd all support Brazil, or Germany, or France, because they all have good players. But we Irish support Ireland, because it's where we are from, and it is, good or bad, part of who we are. The rules are such that all of the squads in every International football team, must have some connection with the country, however small. It means a lot more than merely "representing a sports office in Dublin". The players also represent the people of the Republic of Ireland, in International football.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well said Mypost about the international team.
If you have the passport and the citizenship that is the country you have as your#1. Now you can have anyone you like as #2 and you can also root for another country especially if you're lot fail to make the EURO Championships or the World Cup as the Republic of Ireland habitually failed to do until the arrival of Jack Charlton in 1986!

Some of the other countries I root for when we are not in the competition are
The Italians and Yugoslavia (a.k.a Serbia-Montenegro the Brazilians of Europe)

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well I followed Liverpool because they had Ronnie Whelan, Lawernson, Beglin, and then Aldridge, Houghton, Staunton at the time. Whelan was, and still is, my favourite Liverpool and Irish player of all time. The football they played was class. I also started going to Ireland games around the same time, so seeing them in the flesh was a big thrill. Basically I followed Liverpool because of the Irish connection at the time. Since I started going to Liverpool, I've gotton to know the city and I love it. Great place, great people, even the Evertonians!

Of course in Irish football, you follow the team where you are born. However, following Limerick in the EL is not enough to feed my football appetite i'm afraid, and never has been. After 19 years of being a Liverpool supporter, there's no looking back now. What I don't understand is people who follow the EL preaching against supporting foreign clubs. It's basically just them being pi$$ed off with the state of Irish domestic football, a state caused by the morons who ran it when it was flying years ago, but invested nothing in return. It's Irish football's own fault that it is where it is today, not football fan's supporting foreign clubs.

4thtothefloor

If Limerick played Liverpool who would you be up for?
If your answer is Liverpool kindly burn your passport please! :mad:

I would be up for Limerick always in that scenario and I am not a Limerick FC supporter . Why?
Two reasons. 1/Limerick are the Irish team and 2/ are also The underdogs.

I have always liked the David in a David V Goliath situation. Hence my choice of club.

I have a friend who follows Shamrock Rovers and ManUre.
In fairness to him he was delighted when Rovers beat Man Utd in that famous friendly back in 1986. Mind you so was every genuine EL supporter back then to be fair.

[CollegeTillIDie]

TUT TUT Hitman, by the way College check out the Championship,much better than the Premiership ;)

Thanks Dublin 12. Very involved with the EL and also watching teams all over Europe via the net. But it seems to be a real competitive League where anyone can beat anyone. A bit like the Premier Division back home methinks :D !

[Superhoops]

....I see national teams the same as clubs: you pick the one you like most to support, for whatever reason. If it happens to be the country you live in, that's fine. If it's a country at the other end of the world, also fine. After all, you just support a team of 11 players you like, it's not like you actually support the country. Supporting the squad Brian Kerr selects does not mean you support Ireland as a state, you support just 11 players that represent a sports federations with office in Dublin.....
I don't know how much pride Belgians have in their own country, not much by the sound of it. You obviously have no clue about the Irish psyche to make a statement like this.

Supposing Brian Kerr and all the current Irish players played for one team, say Liverpool for example, I, and I am sure tens of thousands of IRELAND supporters would not walk accross the road to watch them play. However, when they put on the green of Ireland, they are representing MY country, the country I support with pride.

Gerrit my man, no doubt you mean well, but this is without doubt the most ridiculous post I have ever read on this forum.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well to give a bit of background.
Belgium was founded in 1830. There had always been people known as Belgians but that is when they gained full Statehood. The area had been occupied by Austria for many hundred years being known as the Austrian Netherlands during the 16th and 17th centuries. The country at that time had an industrial and coal mining heartland in the South(Wallonia) which was primarily French speaking and as the Francophones were larger in number, French became the official language of the fledgling state. During the 19th Century when Europe was undergoing its Industrial revolution this region was the engine of the economy as well.With the decline of manufacturing industry in Europe during the 1970's and 1980's many of the old companies going out of business unemployment became a problem in Wallonia. Other companies were taken over by multi-national companies which closed down their European based factories in favour of cheap labour in Asia , Africa and post 1989 Eastern Europe. The economic decline of Wallonia coincided with a drop in the birth rate there and a turnaround in the balance of power between the South and North.

In the North was Flanders a predominantly agricultural and Flemish ( a dialect of Dutch) speaking area. With a smaller population than the Walloons and lacking economic muscle, they were very much seen as the junior partner in the equation from the 1830's right up to the outbreak of the Second World War. By the 1980's Flemish had achieved equal status with the French language and there were effectively two Federal government departments for everything, one Flemish speaking and One French speaking.

The Flanders region specialized in moving into the new technologies such as I.T., software production and highly specialized engineering. This saw the rise of Flanders as the economic engine within Belgium. Coinciding with that was an increase in the influence and power of the Flemish speaking population in line with their percentage of the overall population.
With the result that the Walloons feel isolated and at a disadvantage now.
Signposts in the North formerly that were in both languages have had the French painted out by language extremists. Akin to what has been seen in the West of Ireland Gaeltacht regions and North Wales the Welsh speaking stronghold of Wales.

As a political science article I read in the 1980's stated. The country is united by the Catholic religion ( both Walloons and Flemings share the faith), The Royal Family and two other factors.
The Flemings hate the jokes that their neighbours to the North the Dutch tell about them. The Walloons hate the jokes that their neighbours to the South the French tell about them. Oh and they invented Chips not the French :D

There are forces within Belgium trying to fragment the State but I personally believe that a 10,000,000 strong Federal state is a better option than two smaller ones. Besides we don't need another new country in Europe:D

[Gerrit]

I never supported Belgium and never will. I don't like the national team and the fact that my ID contains the word "Belgium" will not change the fact that I have no affection with the 11 players on the field. That is not Belgium, it's 11 men just like 11 other Belgians who are in a bowling club or playing poker in a local pub. I don't see how they represent the country, they're chosen by one man (the national coach) and not every Belgian agrees with that choise.

For christ's sake, football is no war. in a war I would support the country where I live, then I have personal matters involved. In football I support the team I like best. And it's not Belgium. I don't care if they miss the World Cup, the Belgian team doesn't interest me more than the one from Armenia or Luxembourg or so (actually I will support Luxembourg when playing Belgium, because they get more sympathy from me as small amateur team playing only for honour and pride)

I disagree 100% with the "in national teams you have no choice". You have ! Is it a law you should support some guys thinking they're official represents of the country ? Is it even a law that you should like your country ?!
And there are Belgians who support Brazil, or Italy, or Spain, or England, even arch rivals Holland. No one cares, they're big teams. I support Norway, not a big team, and then it's easy to slag on me as if it's disgusting not to support the home country. Glory hunters supporting Brazil instead of Belgium on the other hand, seem to be no problem...

[Gerrit]

Well to give a bit of background.
Belgium was founded in 1830. There had always been people known as Belgians but that is when they gained full Statehood. The area had been occupied by Austria for many hundred years being known as the Austrian Netherlands during the 16th and 17th centuries. The country at that time had an industrial and coal mining heartland in the South(Wallonia) which was primarily French speaking and as the Francophones were larger in number, French became the official language of the fledgling state. During the 19th Century when Europe was undergoing its Industrial revolution this region was the engine of the economy as well.With the decline of manufacturing industry in Europe during the 1970's and 1980's many of the old companies going out of business unemployment became a problem in Wallonia. Other companies were taken over by multi-national companies which closed down their European based factories in favour of cheap labour in Asia , Africa and post 1989 Eastern Europe. The economic decline of Wallonia coincided with a drop in the birth rate there and a turnaround in the balance of power between the South and North.

In the North was Flanders a predominantly agricultural and Flemish ( a dialect of Dutch) speaking area. With a smaller population than the Walloons and lacking economic muscle, they were very much seen as the junior partner in the equation from the 1830's right up to the outbreak of the Second World War. By the 1980's Flemish had achieved equal status with the French language and there were effectively two Federal government departments for everything, one Flemish speaking and One French speaking.

The Flanders region specialized in moving into the new technologies such as I.T., software production and highly specialized engineering. This saw the rise of Flanders as the economic engine within Belgium. Coinciding with that was an increase in the influence and power of the Flemish speaking population in line with their percentage of the overall population.
With the result that the Walloons feel isolated and at a disadvantage now.
Signposts in the North formerly that were in both languages have had the French painted out by language extremists. Akin to what has been seen in the West of Ireland Gaeltacht regions and North Wales the Welsh speaking stronghold of Wales.

As a political science article I read in the 1980's stated. The country is united by the Catholic religion ( both Walloons and Flemings share the faith), The Royal Family and two other factors.
The Flemings hate the jokes that their neighbours to the North the Dutch tell about them. The Walloons hate the jokes that their neighbours to the South the French tell about them. Oh and they invented Chips not the French :D

There are forces within Belgium trying to fragment the State but I personally believe that a 10,000,000 strong Federal state is a better option than two smaller ones. Besides we don't need another new country in Europe:D

Agree on the latter, and I'd say you're well informed on Belgium. Great explanation !



I think national pride is something typical for island nations. Could be wrong, but I experience chauvinism more here than in Belgium, and friends of mine from other island nations tend to have the same feelings.

Personally, I don't feel Belgian. I am Belgian administratively. At heart I am not. I do not feel Belgian and am not ashamed but also not proud of my roots. I feel myself, that's hard enough :) I do not feel affiliated to any country. Maybe that's why I cannot see the Belgian national team as a representation of my country ; I simply don't see Belgium as my country. Borders are very artificial. Plus, I have no good memories on growing up in Belgium and have a rather bad feeling about the directions Belgian society is taking. So Belgian on paper, not at heart.

I admire though that the Irish can feel so proud of their nation, maybe it is something I miss and should experience. But so far I haven't found a reason to be really proud of Belgium. Not ashamed, not proud.

[4tothefloor]

I support Ostend in Belgium ever since I seriously started to follow football (that was 12 years ago now) while I was born 70 km away from Ostend and never lived near the town until the 11th year of supporting the club when I actually lived in the city for a short while.
In national teams football, I am and remain a Norway fan. The Belgian national team doesn't move me, I don't care if they lose or not and will only watch them when there's nothing else to do. I support Norway as well when they are playing Belgium and went to the stadium even to cheer Norway against the Belgians. My favourite player Rushfeldt scored the equaliser so it was a tiptop evening for me :ball:............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........... And you don't need a valid reason to support a club/national team. Just the fact that for some reason you emotionally feel affection for the club is reason enough. There should not always be searched after a logical explanation for feelings of affection or disaffection. Same with love: feelings know no ratio, they just happen for some reason you can't explain. If it were as easy as "I like men/girls who look exactly like that and act exactly like that" it were very easy to find a perfect match, unfortunately (??) it doesn't work like that.

No offence, but that's the biggest load of bullcrap I've ever heard. The whole culture of being a football supporter is based largely on tribalism, and that goes for clubs and nations. I was born in Limerick, why would I want to support Shelbourne for example? Born and bred in Limerick, so Limerick is my team as they are in my blood. Regarding supporting Liverpool, I've already explained why I initially supported them. I have gone over and back quite a lot to Liverpool over the years, I know it well now and have an emotional attachment to the City as well as the club. That is developed over years of supporting the team, visiting the city and getting to know people. It's not just football, I am a big Beatles fan and was also a big Space fan. I'm big into dance music as well, and for years Cream was the clubbing mecca of europe, aside from Ibiza. So I have many 'attachments' to Liverpool, not just football.

As far as your logic on supporting your national team, well the less said the better........although I think your friends are right, you're not a real Belgian because you show little pride in your country. The football culture in Belgium must be very weird......


4thtothefloor
If Limerick played Liverpool who would you be up for?
If your answer is Liverpool kindly burn your passport please! :mad:

That's like saying, 'If you had a choice of marrying Angelina Jolie or Halle Berry, which one would you choose?'. Stupid question, never going to happen, even in the most diehard of fans wildest dreams. To answer your question, I'd probably support neither. I'd have a slight leaning for Limerick but whoever would win would be a good result for me. I have supported Limerick on and off since the late 80's. Off because it got to the stage where the club was being run by cowboys, the club was a joke and I just got pi$$ed off with the whole situation, as did a couple of thousand of others. I decided to put my energy into my local club at weekends instead of wasting it following a club being run into the ground and destroyed by politics. I only started supporting the club again 4 or 5 seasons ago. On the other hand I have supported Liverpool staunchly all my life, and not from a barstool either. If I was asked to choose between the two, I couldn't to be honest.

[Gerrit]

Maybe you see football as tribalism, I don't. By the way, what you say is nonsense if you look at statistics: how many Juventus actually come from Turin ? How many people in Holland support one of the three big clubs instead of their home town's team ? How many people that never went to Spain do claim to be Real Madrid fans ? Many top teams in any country have fans from all over the country, within Turin only half of the people support Juventus and not Torino, with the difference that Juve has fans all over the country - people that in your theory should be supporting Padua, Parma, Bari or Brescia or whatever instead of Juve.

The club you support should be the choice of your heart. No law even insinuates that should be the home country or town or whatever.

And you immediately second that by saying you support Liverpool as well. were you born in Liverpool or did you grow up there ?? Being a fan of the Beatles or liking to make a trip to the city should in your theory not be enough to support the team. Back in Belgium I used to go to Brussels in my spare time all the time, that still doesn't make me a Brussels native, does it ?



As for the national teams: I am not representative for the average Belgian football fan to start. But you say: "you are not a true Belgian".
Correct, I never claimed I was. I am born and raised in Belgium, but was never proud of my country and do not feel Belgian in heart. So why then should I support the country's football team ?? If Norway or Ireland play Belgium tomorrow, I will be in the stadium and I won't be in the section with Belgium supporters.



By the way, supporting another country happens all the time. Even in Ireland. I spoke to many football fans here. It is a very small minority, I say that as well, but there are actually people here that do not support the Boys In Green. People that are proud of Ireland, but not of the national team. I spoke to a guy yet who absolutely dislikes them, he is not ashamed of Ireland at all but he does not like the national team. He said he cannot support a team claiming to be Ireland while people play in it that never lived in the country and only play for Ireland due to their grandparents' Irish ID. He absolutely disgusts it that a guy like Clinton Morrisson who only plays for Ireland because he's not good enough for England can make the team.
- Those are his words, not mine !! Don't shoot the messenger here -

I know a guy who moved from Germany to Ireland. But even long before his move he supported Ireland, he even went to see Germany-Ireland to support Ireland. He loves Germany as a country, but absolutely hates the national team because he doesn't agree with the way the team is run and refuses to see it as a representation of his native country.

I know a French girl who is very proud of France and of her French roots. Still, she hates the French national side and hopes they lose every game, she celebrates it every time the French side gets hammered.

I knew a guy back in school who even supported Holland, Belgium's arch rivals. He went to see Belgium vs Holland on the World Cup (!!) supporting Holland instead of his own country.



Are all those people wrong ?? No. They simply follow their heart which prefers another team (= doesn't mean they don't like their country, they just don't support their country's national team) rather than going with the flow.

There are always two visions on this. This topic sometimes comes up when the national teams have WC qualifiers and when speaking about this, I get two sorts of reactions: the ones that say you should always support the native country, and the ones that agree with me and say you should just support whoever you want. One difference: the latter respect everyone's opinions, while people who think you must support the home country are not open to other visions and use terms such as "betrayer" and "ridiculous" as if they think using some meaningless terms will prove them right.

In matters of taste and preference there are no right or wrongs, everyone has his own 'right'. To use a Manic Street Preachers quote: "this is my truth, tell me yours".
You can use any statements on 'ridiculous posts' all you want. I respect your opinion that you support the home side. Just don't expect me to do the same while my heart doesn't like the Belgian national team.

[anto eile]

Almost any Chelsea supporter these days is going to be a glory hunter. Chelsea have no history of irish support through the decades & lot of them were probably outright anti-irish.

too right.horrible filthy club.probably the last club in england an irish person should follow

as for hibs ive a bit of a soft spot for them, prefer celtic though. but im not mad about the scottish league.though when i was 13years old i was the typical "celtic are irish everyone should follow them" type. glad to say i have wisened up though
koh

[anto eile]

It's one thing being a glory hunter, it's another thing completely to change teams like that...especially as an adult :eek:
i admit to changing clubs as a kid."followed" liverpool cause everyone else did.no proper reasons for it.
then i got a blackburn jersey when i was 10 cause it was either that or a sampdoria one, i didnt like david platt so go blackburn shirt instead of samp.just kinda took off "following" blackburn for a while then , just before they got good.stopped following them the year after they won the league cause i just stopped following english football.
as soon as i was old enough to realise that being a supporter does not mean wearing a replica shirt in a pub i started follwing Rovers fulltime.my dad and granda and some uncles were Rovers fans so Rovers are in the family for decades.

[anto eile]

People that are proud of Ireland, but not of the national team. I spoke to a guy yet who absolutely dislikes them, he is not ashamed of Ireland at all but he does not like the national team. He said he cannot support a team claiming to be Ireland while people play in it that never lived in the country and only play for Ireland due to their grandparents' Irish ID. He absolutely disgusts it that a guy like Clinton Morrisson who only plays for Ireland because he's not good enough for England can make the team.
- Those are his words, not mine !! Don't shoot the messenger here -

sums me and a couple of my mates up (Rovers and shels fans among them)