Glory Hunters

[Gerrit]

Glad you mention this, Anto Eile. Proves my point immediately - not that it's so important for me to be proven right, but now I don't have to take the punches alone anymore :D

A friend of mine recently got very excited because some French player discovered he had an Irish grandparent, so he could play for Ireland. Other people I spoke to just don't like the Irish team because of this, they just don't see the Boys In Green as Irish anymore with these foreign players in it. They are proud Irishmen but that doesn't mean they have to like every single thing that represents Ireland.

For me it just comes down to feeling good. I follow the teams I feel best with. It's not Belgium, so I rather support the team I do feel good with (Norway) rather than trying to go with the flow and ignore my feelings.

[4tothefloor]

Maybe you see football as tribalism, I don't. By the way, what you say is nonsense if you look at statistics: how many Juventus actually come from Turin ? How many people in Holland support one of the three big clubs instead of their home town's team ? How many people that never went to Spain do claim to be Real Madrid fans ? Many top teams in any country have fans from all over the country, within Turin only half of the people support Juventus and not Torino, with the difference that Juve has fans all over the country - people that in your theory should be supporting Padua, Parma, Bari or Brescia or whatever instead of Juve.

The club you support should be the choice of your heart. No law even insinuates that should be the home country or town or whatever.

And you immediately second that by saying you support Liverpool as well. were you born in Liverpool or did you grow up there ?? Being a fan of the Beatles or liking to make a trip to the city should in your theory not be enough to support the team. Back in Belgium I used to go to Brussels in my spare time all the time, that still doesn't make me a Brussels native, does it ?



As for the national teams: I am not representative for the average Belgian football fan to start. But you say: "you are not a true Belgian".
Correct, I never claimed I was. I am born and raised in Belgium, but was never proud of my country and do not feel Belgian in heart. So why then should I support the country's football team ?? If Norway or Ireland play Belgium tomorrow, I will be in the stadium and I won't be in the section with Belgium supporters.



By the way, supporting another country happens all the time. Even in Ireland. I spoke to many football fans here. It is a very small minority, I say that as well, but there are actually people here that do not support the Boys In Green. People that are proud of Ireland, but not of the national team. I spoke to a guy yet who absolutely dislikes them, he is not ashamed of Ireland at all but he does not like the national team. He said he cannot support a team claiming to be Ireland while people play in it that never lived in the country and only play for Ireland due to their grandparents' Irish ID. He absolutely disgusts it that a guy like Clinton Morrisson who only plays for Ireland because he's not good enough for England can make the team.
- Those are his words, not mine !! Don't shoot the messenger here -

I know a guy who moved from Germany to Ireland. But even long before his move he supported Ireland, he even went to see Germany-Ireland to support Ireland. He loves Germany as a country, but absolutely hates the national team because he doesn't agree with the way the team is run and refuses to see it as a representation of his native country.

I know a French girl who is very proud of France and of her French roots. Still, she hates the French national side and hopes they lose every game, she celebrates it every time the French side gets hammered.

I knew a guy back in school who even supported Holland, Belgium's arch rivals. He went to see Belgium vs Holland on the World Cup (!!) supporting Holland instead of his own country.



Are all those people wrong ?? No. They simply follow their heart which prefers another team (= doesn't mean they don't like their country, they just don't support their country's national team) rather than going with the flow.

There are always two visions on this. This topic sometimes comes up when the national teams have WC qualifiers and when speaking about this, I get two sorts of reactions: the ones that say you should always support the native country, and the ones that agree with me and say you should just support whoever you want. One difference: the latter respect everyone's opinions, while people who think you must support the home country are not open to other visions and use terms such as "betrayer" and "ridiculous" as if they think using some meaningless terms will prove them right.

In matters of taste and preference there are no right or wrongs, everyone has his own 'right'. To use a Manic Street Preachers quote: "this is my truth, tell me yours".
You can use any statements on 'ridiculous posts' all you want. I respect your opinion that you support the home side. Just don't expect me to do the same while my heart doesn't like the Belgian national team.

I won't have time to read that until my day off next week........

[mypost]

how many Juventus actually come from Turin?

there are actually people here that do not support the Boys In Green. People that are proud of Ireland, but not of the national team. I spoke to a guy yet who absolutely dislikes them, he is not ashamed of Ireland at all but he does not like the national team. He said he cannot support a team claiming to be Ireland while people play in it that never lived in the country and only play for Ireland due to their grandparents' Irish ID. He absolutely disgusts it that a guy like Clinton Morrisson who only plays for Ireland because he's not good enough for England can make the team. Are all those people wrong ?? No.

This topic sometimes comes up when the national teams have WC qualifiers and when speaking about this, I get two sorts of reactions: the ones that say you should always support the native country, and the ones that agree with me and say you should just support whoever you want. Just don't expect me to do the same while my heart doesn't like the Belgian national team.

I support Inter in Italy. I have never been to Italy, I don't know any of the players personally, but if I could go to Inter's games, I wouldn't care where the hell the players came from as long as the team won. Your statements indicate, that you must have some personal connection with the players involved before supporting them on the field, particularly regarding national teams. Sorry, but that is a load of horse manure. :(

Clinton Morrison may not be 100% Irish, but neither were our 2 previous managers, nor were most of the players. Most Irish football fans overlook the fact that some players on the team are not 100% Irish. But, they are considered Irish under FIFA rules, so therefore they are as Irish, as someone who was born in Dublin, or Cork. Again, most fans don't care about where they play their club football, where they come from, or why. They are trying to win while representing our country in International football, and that's all that Irish fans care about.

You don't support Belgian football teams. Do you support Belgian athletes in other sports, for example, the Olympics? We all don't like things that happen to us in our country, from time to time. Does that mean we are ashamed to be Irish? Does it mean that we should turn against our country that is a part of our life? No. You can only have 1 Nationality, for better or worse.

The fact that you choose to turn against people who represent your country, be it in sport or in any area of your life, is rather sad, and I think is a disgraceful insult to decent, genuine, Belgian people.

[magic moments]

too right.horrible filthy club.probably the last club in england an irish person should follow

as for hibs ive a bit of a soft spot for them, prefer celtic though. but im not mad about the scottish league.though when i was 13years old i was the typical "celtic are irish everyone should follow them" type. glad to say i have wisened up though
koh

Have been following CHELSEA since 84 am i a glory hunter?

Also been following the Republic since i was 10, so i can tell you there are plenty of people who support both teams!!

[Gerrit]

I support Inter in Italy. I have never been to Italy, I don't know any of the players personally, but if I could go to Inter's games, I wouldn't care where the hell the players came from as long as the team won. Your statements indicate, that you must have some personal connection with the players involved before supporting them on the field, particularly regarding national teams. Sorry, but that is a load of horse manure. :(

Clinton Morrison may not be 100% Irish, but neither were our 2 previous managers, nor were most of the players. Most Irish football fans overlook the fact that some players on the team are not 100% Irish. But, they are considered Irish under FIFA rules, so therefore they are as Irish, as someone who was born in Dublin, or Cork. Again, most fans don't care about where they play their club football, where they come from, or why. They are trying to win while representing our country in International football, and that's all that Irish fans care about.

You don't support Belgian football teams. Do you support Belgian athletes in other sports, for example, the Olympics? We all don't like things that happen to us in our country, from time to time. Does that mean we are ashamed to be Irish? Does it mean that we should turn against our country that is a part of our life? No. You can only have 1 Nationality, for better or worse.

The fact that you choose to turn against people who represent your country, be it in sport or in any area of your life, is rather sad, and I think is a disgraceful insult to decent, genuine, Belgian people.

So in your opinion I am insulting Belgian people ? :eek: Am I even not a decent person because I don't like the national team of the country I was born in ??
Same old bullocks I've heard so many times... Why do I even still react to it ? I must have too much spare time really... There are more people out there who share my point of view, seems they're just smart enough not to go into needless discussions...

Look, it goes in two directions: if you don't care that a person representing Ireland is not 100% Irish, then this indicates you still support the team because you like the team, that it's not that important to you who is on the pitch and what their backgrounds are. So then why would it even be a matter, let alone a problem, that the people that I support (Norway) are not Belgian, if background isn't that important anyway ??

That said you see it from the point of view of a person proud of his country. I am not. Belgium is not a bad place, far from that, but despite that I also feel no national pride and don't consider myself as Belgian at heart. I have a nationality administratively, in feeling I have no nationality. I have no place I feel I belong to, and I prefer to keep it that way.



As for your other question: I support some of the Belgian athletes, some not. Depends on the athlete's personality really :) An example: I have the deepest respect for Justine Henin-Hardenne, who had a dramatic youth but still faught to realise her dreams and got there, I think she's an example for anyone and gave the word 'brave' a new dimension. She is by far my favourite tennis player, and she happens to be Belgian which is a nice coincidence.

Xavier Malisse is another Belgian tennis player, and I am a fan as well. I like the man's personality and way of playing. The results are not there or were never any constant, still he has my support.

Kim Clijsters, also Belgian... I don't like her at all. I don't like her personality. Belgian or not, if she plays a foreign player that I respect, I support the girl on the other side of the net.

Really, I do not want to think in terms of nationality and support the clubs, teams or athletes my heart is with. Their nationality is not that important for me.
Compare it to music. Is every single Irishman a U2 fan ?? There's a rivality between Ireland and England, and an Irishman supporting the English team will get bad looks... Meanwhile, those guys making bad comments on him, may just as well be loyal Beatles or Oasis fans. Betraying the country yeah ?? :rolleyes:

I support whoever I like because of the players they have and their personality. That's all that matters. Just like I don't care that much about results (in that case I could have just picked Brazil, like some Belgians do) I don't care about nationality.




Also, to drop this discussions about ME not supporting the native country...

Can you please explain how not supporting the national side could possible indicate shame of your country ?? Are you only proud of your native country when you support every single representant of it, even if in heart the person leaves you indifferent ?! Talking about narrow-mindedness... Is there any reference that you have to like everything your country does, or else you're suddenly "ashamed"/"betraying"/"insulting the country and its people" ?? Big terms, but I never heard someone who could bring up a reasonable argument to back those words.

I will support Belgian athletes when I like them, like Xavier Malisse and Justine Henin-Hardenne. I will not support the ones I don't like just for the sake of them being Belgian... If you feel like supporting every sportsman who happens to be Irish, regardless if you like him or not: go ahead. It may not be betraying your native country, but it is betraying your own feelings. I rather betray the country I was born in (mind that I don't wish to use "MY country") as far as you can ever call it betrayal, rather that than betraying my own feelings.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Gerrit

I understand about Clijsters. Belgian women used to be sh*t at tennis ! :D

[Gerrit]

It's not that, it's the whole "mss happy smile" thing I don't like. Of course she goes through life with a smile, of course she feels happy all the time. She makes loads of money by practising her hobby, and whenever problems come her dad takes care of it rather than let her face them herself. I still don't get why so many Belgian people are tendered by that smile and don't see the history behind it. Sure, Henin seems more introvert and less open, she had a dramatic youth and had to fight for everything herself, she's been in the real life... Respect to her, she did it all by herself and is an example for anyone, proving you can hold on to a dream as long as you fight for it.

And sadly enough, one of them (Clijsters) is Flemish, one of them (Henin) is Walloon. Reason enough for some sports fans to make it a political thing of Flanders vs Wallony... How many times I've heard yet "I support Clijsters cause she's also Flemish..." Pathetic IMO.

[Junior]

I support Inter in Italy. I have never been to Italy, I don't know any of the players personally, but if I could go to Inter's games, I wouldn't care where the hell the players came from as long as the team won. Your statements indicate, that you must have some personal connection with the players involved before supporting them on the field, particularly regarding national teams. Sorry, but that is a load of horse manure. :(

Clinton Morrison may not be 100% Irish, but neither were our 2 previous managers, nor were most of the players. Most Irish football fans overlook the fact that some players on the team are not 100% Irish. But, they are considered Irish under FIFA rules, so therefore they are as Irish, as someone who was born in Dublin, or Cork. Again, most fans don't care about where they play their club football, where they come from, or why. They are trying to win while representing our country in International football, and that's all that Irish fans care about.

You don't support Belgian football teams. Do you support Belgian athletes in other sports, for example, the Olympics? We all don't like things that happen to us in our country, from time to time. Does that mean we are ashamed to be Irish? Does it mean that we should turn against our country that is a part of our life? No. You can only have 1 Nationality, for better or worse.

The fact that you choose to turn against people who represent your country, be it in sport or in any area of your life, is rather sad, and I think is a disgraceful insult to decent, genuine, Belgian people.

I'd love to hear your definition of 100% Irish?