Negative Media

[harry crumb]

This thread is not supposed to be about match reports, more, negative articles and headings.

[soccerc]

This thread is not supposed to be about match reports, more, negative articles and headings.

Harry I was replying to the originator of the thread who didn't keep it on topic :rolleyes:

[hamish]

Some things are unhypeable such as some of them Setanta Cup games. To say on telly that there is a big crowd at the games is just ridiculous such as the Glentoran and Longford game.
There is also things like when Jimmy Aggrey signed for Bohs he was called an "ex Chelsea star". True he may have been at Chelsea but he signed from TNS in Wales. Paddy McCourt is a "Northern Ireland International" true he played one game but he is not likely to get another game until he goes back to England.
The point about players that came back ie Foley,Moore etc they where hardly making waves the last places they were playing Moore couldnt get a look in at Burnley. Cork City have 2 key players who were let go by Peterboro United. Daryl Murphy may be going to Sunderland but he only signed from Waterford after being let go by Luton Town.
To finish all i am saying is any paper that covers the eircom league fairly ie the star, the sun, irish independant, the mirror, should give honest reports on matches i certainly would prefer it that way. A journalists job is to say it as they see it.
Hard to disagree with you there, man but when I was Athlone PRO, I used to meet the likes of Gerry Thornley at matches - mostly Bohs v Town games in Dalyer and he was bored sihtless and always making snide remarks on LOI football. My point is that far too many journalists are not interested in local football from the get-go and just marking time till the Editor gives them their favourite sport to write on. That's why I'm somewhat suspicious when there's criticisms - is it anti-soccer bias/apathy? Exceptions like Paul Lenon, Malone, Fitzmaurice, Gabriel Egan - they seem to have areal feel for the game which makes their criticisms more valid. Maybe I'm just getting old and paranoid!

[Macy]

Mick McCarthy watched our game v UCD
That must be a first - McCarthy in an eL ground.... :rolleyes:

[bluemovie]

Daryl Murphy may be going to Sunderland but he only signed from Waterford after being let go by Luton Town.

Daryl Murphy was not 'let go' by Luton Town. He left as he was homesick despite making a very good impression at Luton. Yet again, someone presuming the worst.

[Anto McC]

John Paul Kelly of Bohs tipped to be one of the biggest liverpool stars in the future also left cause he was homesick and in five years when he's one of the best players in the league he will be regarded by sed journalists as a liverpool reject.Journalists like the those mentioned when giving match reports will always point out the negative side and very rearly point out the good side.

[Slash/ED]

Indeed, I've never seen a Spanish match report with "Athletico reject Raúl put Real one up" in it.

[Passive]

In fairness to Paul Hyland, he's written nothing but the truth in relation to our current problems. He's asked all the right questions about how our board was running Rovers. Hyland has basically been a 400 Club spokesman for the past few weeks!

As for Dave Kelly, don't get me started. This is the guy who in his end of season round-up claimed that the league gets too much media coverage. That's the equivilant of me saying to my boss, "listen, my job is actually pointless, could you please fire me?" He's a Pat's fan but he never has anything good to say about the league. I've been at really entertaining games and you read Kelly's match report and he basically says the game was rubbish, we'd all have been better off in the pub. Thankfully, the Indo seem to have moved him to rugby.

The tabloid writers are the best. I like Gerry McDermott too, he's never that full of enthusiasm but at least he's balanced.

[A face]

It think some journos are some way responsible for this aswell ....

The problem with Irish people is that they are convinced that football is one big aesthetic spectacle and they forget the underlying social dynamics that people in the stadium come to love. This is simply because they rarely if ever go to games and when they do they tend to be one-offs, internationals, trips to England, whatever. The outcome is that they have this expectation of what football is all about which jars with the reality of people who are at games week in, week out. As such the idea of loving fast flowing, fast passing, dribbling, look Mum no hands football is all the rage in Ireland. But this is what happens when TV selects the best game to show, then normally they see the highlights and forget that while, as Brian Clough used to say, 'it only takes a second to score a goal', it takes 89 minutes and 59 seconds to do everything else. Whilst Real and Barce are playing beautiful football in Spain, what about Malaga versus Albacete? That's football too and whilst not very interesting for the likes of yourself is really just as important as every other Spanish league game.

For the vast majority of football fans, the quality of the football is besides the point. Most teams have cycles and rarely dominate over the long-term (unless its Celtic and Rangers and that's even more boring) so over the course of supporting a team, you eventually see them play bad football in some armpit of the country, desperately defending to earn a 0-0 draw, whilst it is raining and freezing cold. It isn't the football that keeps the fans warm, it is the love of being there. Then when your team does produce great football and achieves at the highest level, it is a glorious feeling that the people there will remember for the rest of their lives.

So yes football is being raped but not by negative tactics of Greece and co. but by the armchair brigade, the prawn sandwichers and the band wagoners who drive (or are driven by) the BSKYB agenda of football where it is all transcendent, all of the time. Well it isn't about that, its about being part of a club and a community of people with shared values and dreams, its about going to football matches on your wife's birthday, its about telling all your house guests to be quiet whilst you listen to the results on the radio, its about booting down motorways in a foul temper because you are about to miss the first five minutes of the game which is a mid-table clash, its about blowing all your money on traveling to games.

We believe in all this bóllox that we are the best supporters in the world - let me tell you a truth - we are the worst. Why did Ireland exceed other countries in looking for World Cup match tickets? Because football supporters in other countries spend all their money to games week in, week out - traveling up and down their country watching bad football games but loving every second of it whilst we sit here and sneer at our own game which incidentally is getting better all the time despite the smug eliteness of the Anglophones who live in our little island.

So all of you Anglophones who are so worried about the state of English football and to a lesser extent the upper echelons of the Champions League participants, please remember that Cork City are playing St Patricks Ath. this Friday. It will no doubt be a bad football game in the aesthetic spectacle idea that impresses you all but in the wider existence of football for those clued in to the spirit of supporting games, it is what the weekend is all about.

[monutdfc]

Des Cahill led with Shamrock Rovers this morning..."more trouble for Shamrock Rovers blah blah blah" - if he had any knowledge of the game he'd know Maguire going was a good thing. The only time he ever gives prominence to the eL it's with bad news stories. Then he gives blow by blow accounts of games he watched on TV the night before.

[A face]

The only time he ever gives prominence to the eL it's with bad news stories.


Exactly ....... is it wrong of us to make this observation ..... he makes the show .... or the journo writes the article and we the punter read/view it ..... we are totally entitled to discuss the merits or in these case the lack of on the strength of what we are being given.

In my opinion .... all of these guys deserve every bit of criticism they get. If they put something out in the public domain, is the punter entitled to have an opinion on it ??

Can someone confirm this or not ??

[Green Force]

This stuff is pretty delusional.

The only news worth printing about the eircom league is bad news because it is crap.

The facilities are crap, most of the players are crap, the refs are crap, the directors are crap....

The only way bad news stories will stop is when clubs get their act together.

[A face]

Catch 22

...... and i dont see you offering a viable solution ??? Why is that ???

And there is no way the league is as bad as you are making it out to be.

"This stuff is pretty delusional"


Delusional ..... not at all, there is no one (well, most anyway) under an illusion in this thread .... the poll is 55 to 11 ..... that speaks for itself. A cross section of people who have an interest in the league, would be the first to read those stories and would have an interest in all things concerning the league and standard of football .... and the general consensus amoung them is the media are negative, how is the delusional ???

Would i be right in saying that it is not delusional at all, that it is totally correct that alot of reporting is opportunist to say the least.

Why is there never any good reports ..... is it a reflection on the league ?? ..... is there never anything good happening in the league ?? Both those last two questions ... the answer is No ... there is a lot of good happening in the league, but it is never given any coverage.

Fair enough .... take the good with the bad, with a balance ... constructive criticism but the stuff that is being printed now is not and it is being seen as that and it is not at all delusional .... people opinions on it are very real and accurate.

If there was balanced objective documentation every week/day on the league, where well researched articles were written, including everyones opinion on that particular topic and this all compiled an accurate report on the current situation on that topic, that would be brilliant .... and anything that was said and ranted about, you could but only take it on board because of the way it was presented .... as rational argument with reasoned thought.

If not then it is only fish and chip paper and not worth talking about. If it is not .... it will never effect or provoke change, it will never be instrumental in improving the current situation. It will only delude the writer into thinking that their opinion matters. It wont ... it'll be forgotten about and rightly so.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Des Cahill led with Shamrock Rovers this morning..."more trouble for Shamrock Rovers blah blah blah" - if he had any knowledge of the game he'd know Maguire going was a good thing. The only time he ever gives prominence to the eL it's with bad news stories. Then he gives blow by blow accounts of games he watched on TV the night before.

The sad thing about Des is , he actually goes to EL matches. Can you imagine what his stance would be like if he never bothered? :confused:

[CollegeTillIDie]

This stuff is pretty delusional.

The only news worth printing about the eircom league is bad news because it is crap.

The facilities are crap, most of the players are crap, the refs are crap, the directors are crap....

The only way bad news stories will stop is when clubs get their act together.

Green Force

Our national printed media are a frigging disgrace. The newspapers here are full of English FA Premiershi*.
There is precious little room for the domestic game. And I dispute what some others say. No other country's Press in Europe has such little room FOR IT'S OWN DOMESTIC LEAGUE in the printed media. I have been to Czech Republic, Romania , Poland and Serbia in recent years. Their sports pages give the vast majority of column inches , TO THEIR OWN LEAGUES.

And I wouldn't mind only the Irish Times is full of wired stories culled from the Guardian. And it's twice the price of the aforementioned newspaper! :mad:

The facilities are crap... why? Because the clubs have no money.
Why do the clubs have no money? Well one reason is lazy batsards prefer to go to boozers rather than pay into watch games in person.
Most of the players are crap.... SO ARE MOST OF THE ONES IN THE PREMIERSHIP! e.g. Danny Mills 25 England caps as a right back... you're having a laugh

The refs are crap... the directors are crap... SO ARE MOST OF THE ONES IN THE PREMIERSHIP e.g. the ex board of Leeds United

[Bald Student]

The facilities are crapAm I the only person who thinks the opposite? When I go to Landsdown Road or another big stadium I'm herded into a terrace or packed stand where I have to stay for two hours untill I'm herded back out again onto a crowded road.

When I go to an eL game I can choose where I want to sit or stand. The view I get, about 5 - 10 meters back from the pitch, is one I'd probably have to pay 100 euro for in Landsdown. I can get up and walk around to talk to my friends or to use the toilet or shop whenever I want.

I find the facilities and comfort at eL games much better than games in big stadiums.

[pete]

I find the facilities and comfort at eL games much better than games in big stadiums.

Lansdowne is horrible. Terraces have very few entrances so always crowding when entering & leaving. Not enough food, toliets oe any other facility for the size of the crowds.

Turners Cross, Tolka & Dalymount are more comfortable with big crowds.

[Green Force]

Football in this country is not newsworthy because no one supports it.

That is simply down to the way football is run by the FAI, the League and the clubs.

As a result the only stories coming out of it are bad news stories.

Finn Harps breaking even and finishing last is not a story. In the same way as the Sunday business post is not going to report on the corner shop that makes a few bob for its owners the sports editors are not going to report on that story.

Rovers losing €2.3m IS a story, Ollie getting injunctions IS a story, Pats getting a League title for finishing 3rd IS a story.

It might be negative but its not "too focused" on the negative. The fact is, like it or not, football is such a joke in this country that it only gives negative stories to the hacks to write about.

Get over it. If positive stories are to come to fruition clubs need to get their acts together. A new rule book, a real licence, proper facilities, proper marketing and promotional schemes. Thats when the crowds will come and thats when the press will be positive, not before.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Football in this country is not newsworthy because no one supports it.

That is simply down to the way football is run by the FAI, the League and the clubs.

As a result the only stories coming out of it are bad news stories.

Finn Harps breaking even and finishing last is not a story. In the same way as the Sunday business post is not going to report on the corner shop that makes a few bob for its owners the sports editors are not going to report on that story.

Rovers losing €2.3m IS a story, Ollie getting injunctions IS a story, Pats getting a League title for finishing 3rd IS a story.

It might be negative but its not "too focused" on the negative. The fact is, like it or not, football is such a joke in this country that it only gives negative stories to the hacks to write about.

Get over it. If positive stories are to come to fruition clubs need to get their acts together. A new rule book, a real licence, proper facilities, proper marketing and promotional schemes. Thats when the crowds will come and thats when the press will be positive, not before.

Green Force

If they put in match reports for every game in every paper it would be a start! The non-existant First Division coverage in the Irish Times springs to mind. How is any Irish Times reader going to decide whether or not to attend a First Division game when he/she doesn't know it exists if they only read the D'Olier Street Diary ?:mad:

[CollegeTillIDie]

Get over it. If positive stories are to come to fruition clubs need to get their acts together. A new rule book, a real licence, proper facilities, proper marketing and promotional schemes. Thats when the crowds will come and thats when the press will be positive, not before.

Green Force

We are not a great nation for supporting sports at all.
People think going to 3-4 Championship games a season makes A GAA Fan... THEY'RE WRONG!
People here think going to 4-5 International games a seasons makes a soccer fan ... THEY ARE EVEN MORE WRONG and People think going to 2-3 , Six Nations games a season makes a rugby fan.....EVEN WRONGER STILL.
We have become a nation of event attenders.
The days of huge crowds EVERY WEEK in soccer rugby or indeed Gaelic and Hurling are like the days when we had a manufacturing industry in this country Long gone !

[CollegeTillIDie]

Am I the only person who thinks the opposite? When I go to Landsdown Road or another big stadium I'm herded into a terrace or packed stand where I have to stay for two hours untill I'm herded back out again onto a crowded road.

When I go to an eL game I can choose where I want to sit or stand. The view I get, about 5 - 10 meters back from the pitch, is one I'd probably have to pay 100 euro for in Landsdown. I can get up and walk around to talk to my friends or to use the toilet or shop whenever I want.

I find the facilities and comfort at eL games much better than games in big stadiums.

Bald Student

I was quoting Green whathis name when I said the facilities are crap.. just trying to attack the points he was making. Sorry if I was unclear about that.

[Anto McC]

Green force is just another critical "supporter".Which Eircom league team do you support and how many games a season do you go to.Are you so ashamed of your team that you will not put up their avaitor,it's bad enough having barstoolers who have never went to an Eircom league criticising but to have a so called "supporter" critising is something else,he should know the struggle all E.L. clubs and real supporters are going through.

[A face]

Football in this country is not newsworthy because no one supports it.

How in gods name can you say the national domestic league is not news worthy when it is our NATIONAL league .... It is Irish players who are coming up through the system and they are playing at the highest level in the country.

You say none supports it, i'd say you are wrong, totally ..... with no support what so ever, whenever RTE show a live eL game ... the viewing figure that the release themselves is always over 200,000 when most english games barely get 120,000 ... Chlesea ManU which should be unreal figure barely got over 150,000 and there is no way you can say Chelsea ManU dont get support. How can you justify that ??? i'd seriously love to hear you argument to that


That is simply down to the way football is run by the FAI, the League and the clubs.

As a result the only stories coming out of it are bad news stories.

You could have a point there but surely you are not going to try and justify your argument on that basis ?? ARE YOU ??

The league does need to improve but for you to say that because the need exists it justifies the coverage it get ...... what drugs are you on ??


Finn Harps breaking even and finishing last is not a story. In the same way as the Sunday business post is not going to report on the corner shop that makes a few bob for its owners the sports editors are not going to report on that story.

TIP: Just to let you know ..... not matter what league you go to, where ever in the world, in every single sport ... there will always be a team at the the bottom and probably breaking even.

But you being selective in picking out Harps as an example we'll leave go.

Why cant the media report on efforts being made all over the league, first and premier ?? You are totally wrong saying that there isn't positives to report on. For the record, again i am say a balance, a true reflection on what is happening


Rovers losing €2.3m IS a story, Ollie getting injunctions IS a story, Pats getting a League title for finishing 3rd IS a story.

Agreed .... i totally agree, these issue need highlighting. It is essential that all these incidents are documented and reported to the punter. There is no value you can put on the fans being informed on what is happening.

But a balanced coverage is probably more important, so the punter has THE FULL PICTURE the penny should drop anytime soon .... Can i say that again ..... The Full Picture, not things taken out of context, not selective reporting.


It might be negative but its not "too focused" on the negative.

It is !!


The fact is, like it or not, football is such a joke in this country that it only gives negative stories to the hacks to write about.

It doesn't ... you are wrong.


Get over it. If positive stories are to come to fruition clubs need to get their acts together. A new rule book, a real licence, proper facilities, proper marketing and promotional schemes. Thats when the crowds will come and thats when the press will be positive, not before.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree because I think that misleading, opportunist selective reporting is always going to leave the league and people working in it with an unfair disadvantage in trying to encourage people to support the national league.

If the punter, Mr. Joe Public was given the correct, accurate truthful representation for what is happening in the league they would be more enclined to attend games.

Again .... i am not asking for the league to be given a leg up, i am not saying the issues and problems should be swept under the carpet and never see the light of day, quite the oppoiste. I am saying the the WHOLE STORY should be reported on. ...... IT IS NOT right now.

I take your points on board, the rule book should be improved and tightened up but this is happening all the time i.e. the sideline ban reviewed etc. it is ALWAYS happening but NEVER reported .... are you getting it, i am saying you probably didn't know because it is never focused on

A real licence .... yeah ... the UEFA Licence is being implemented, how more real can you get ?? I presume UEFA seem to think it is real considering the effort they are putting into it. What kind of licence do you suggest ?? What else does it need to have in it .... help us out here man ?? Shine the light .... what is wrong with the current licence ??

Seriously ... are you nit-picking or do you have something to contribute ???
Help us help you .... reply on this matter !!


Proper facilities ... i hear ya ... i say the same, but not to recognise (or ignore as the case may be) the efforts being made at the moment is simple wrong. You cant justify it ..... i understand that more effort needs to be made and it will be. The UEFA licencing has shoved and pushed and it is happening. in some cases, slowly and surely but it is happening.

If the media recognised the efforts being made and focused on it, assisting the clubs to rasie funds and sponsorship with positive justified reporting, they wouldn't have such an up hill struggle.

Proper Marketing and Promotional Schemes .... look at the title of the thread !!

Agreed though ..... more needs to be done but can i again ask you to look at the title of this thread !?!! do me a favour .... listen for the penny

[Green Force]

Green Force

We are not a great nation for supporting sports at all.
People think going to 3-4 Championship games a season makes A GAA Fan... THEY'RE WRONG!
People here think going to 4-5 International games a seasons makes a soccer fan ... THEY ARE EVEN MORE WRONG and People think going to 2-3 , Six Nations games a season makes a rugby fan.....EVEN WRONGER STILL.
We have become a nation of event attenders.
The days of huge crowds EVERY WEEK in soccer rugby or indeed Gaelic and Hurling are like the days when we had a manufacturing industry in this country Long gone !

Thats the point all these people who are "wrong" buy the papers and want to read about their events. Its simple economics. Papers print crap about premier league = sales, papers print positive stoy about EL club = no sales.

Huge week to week crows are only a thing of the past because there is no concerted effort to get people going and if this is to happen the facilities need to be up to scratch for them to keep coming.

[Green Force]

Ok, bit of an essay there so here goes.

*Being our National league does not confer the right to media coverage. Enough supporters who want media coverage will force that to happen, but at the moment there are only about 50-60,000 LoI fans. Tv figures, eh rte probably made them up to flog advertising for matches advertisers didnt want to pay for.

*"TIP: Just to let you know ..... not matter what league you go to, where ever in the world, in every single sport ... there will always be a team at the the bottom and probably breaking even. " Point is its not feckin newsworthy, get over it.

*positives are there thats my point, but they are not interesting. A positive news story = Nick Leeson, negative = €2.3m debt, and the harps example (apologies to harpers) is just not newsworthy.That is balanced like it or not.

* OK there are some positive stories but the majority of the news from our mleague worth reporting on is bad news.

*its not the paper/ media/ journalists job to promote the league, they report it as it is in response to what will sell papers.

* A real licence, ok try this for starters, a licence with specified legal requirements, not loose aspirations that can be taken apart in court. Specific sanctions and degrees of sanction that are binding when the licence committee makes it decision on a club that fails to meet criteria. Whats wrong with the current licence is that it was a project by 3rd class kids on what they thought SHOULD be done but theres no way of implementig it at all. For example, Rovers meet more of the general requirements now than before the examinership started yet the FAI wont be able to apply any specific penalty as its open to judicial review. Jokeshop. (though as a rovers fan I'm quite happy about this point). Uefa issue guidelines, its the FAI who did up the document, I've read it, it is a mess, there are so many ways around it that if it was put on the mad cow roundabout there'd be no traffic problems anywhere in Dublin.

*Facilities, ok here's a reply. ANY club could handily enough raise €500k with a bit of a push and a proper plan with the fans. That allows dept of sport funding of a further €1.0m, now EVERY ground in the country could do with a new stand or a €1.5m upgrade. Do that and it will be easir to keep people coming. This is ASIDE from any scheme promised to the FAI that clubs are currently uusing as an excuse to do nothing.

*


How in gods name can you say the national domestic league is not news worthy when it is our NATIONAL league .... It is Irish players who are coming up through the system and they are playing at the highest level in the country.

You say none supports it, i'd say you are wrong, totally ..... with no support what so ever, whenever RTE show a live eL game ... the viewing figure that the release themselves is always over 200,000 when most english games barely get 120,000 ... Chlesea ManU which should be unreal figure barely got over 150,000 and there is no way you can say Chelsea ManU dont get support. How can you justify that ??? i'd seriously love to hear you argument to that



You could have a point there but surely you are not going to try and justify your argument on that basis ?? ARE YOU ??

The league does need to improve but for you to say that because the need exists it justifies the coverage it get ...... what drugs are you on ??



TIP: Just to let you know ..... not matter what league you go to, where ever in the world, in every single sport ... there will always be a team at the the bottom and probably breaking even.

But you being selective in picking out Harps as an example we'll leave go.

Why cant the media report on efforts being made all over the league, first and premier ?? You are totally wrong saying that there isn't positives to report on. For the record, again i am say a balance, a true reflection on what is happening



Agreed .... i totally agree, these issue need highlighting. It is essential that all these incidents are documented and reported to the punter. There is no value you can put on the fans being informed on what is happening.

But a balanced coverage is probably more important, so the punter has THE FULL PICTURE the penny should drop anytime soon .... Can i say that again ..... The Full Picture, not things taken out of context, not selective reporting.



It is !!



It doesn't ... you are wrong.



Well we'll have to agree to disagree because I think that misleading, opportunist selective reporting is always going to leave the league and people working in it with an unfair disadvantage in trying to encourage people to support the national league.

If the punter, Mr. Joe Public was given the correct, accurate truthful representation for what is happening in the league they would be more enclined to attend games.

Again .... i am not asking for the league to be given a leg up, i am not saying the issues and problems should be swept under the carpet and never see the light of day, quite the oppoiste. I am saying the the WHOLE STORY should be reported on. ...... IT IS NOT right now.

I take your points on board, the rule book should be improved and tightened up but this is happening all the time i.e. the sideline ban reviewed etc. it is ALWAYS happening but NEVER reported .... are you getting it, i am saying you probably didn't know because it is never focused on

A real licence .... yeah ... the UEFA Licence is being implemented, how more real can you get ?? I presume UEFA seem to think it is real considering the effort they are putting into it. What kind of licence do you suggest ?? What else does it need to have in it .... help us out here man ?? Shine the light .... what is wrong with the current licence ??

Seriously ... are you nit-picking or do you have something to contribute ???
Help us help you .... reply on this matter !!


Proper facilities ... i hear ya ... i say the same, but not to recognise (or ignore as the case may be) the efforts being made at the moment is simple wrong. You cant justify it ..... i understand that more effort needs to be made and it will be. The UEFA licencing has shoved and pushed and it is happening. in some cases, slowly and surely but it is happening.

If the media recognised the efforts being made and focused on it, assisting the clubs to rasie funds and sponsorship with positive justified reporting, they wouldn't have such an up hill struggle.

Proper Marketing and Promotional Schemes .... look at the title of the thread !!

Agreed though ..... more needs to be done but can i again ask you to look at the title of this thread !?!! do me a favour .... listen for the penny

[Green Force]

Green force is just another critical "supporter".Which Eircom league team do you support and how many games a season do you go to.Are you so ashamed of your team that you will not put up their avaitor,it's bad enough having barstoolers who have never went to an Eircom league criticising but to have a so called "supporter" critising is something else,he should know the struggle all E.L. clubs and real supporters are going through.

Read my posts without getting your "I'm an eircom league fan" knickers in a twist.
Green force sorta gives it away, nb, not bray.
So I'm criticising the league, some bloke actually posted a good response to it and I replied again, your just having a go which makes me think that:
1. you cant take constructive criticism of the league, and by f*** it needs it.
2. you have nothing to contribute anyway.
You're admitting its a struggle yet demanding that you get blanket positive media coverage. If a struggle is not negative I dont know what is and hacks cant ignore that.

[thecorner]

What do cork fans think of The Echo's(think thats the name) coverage of the league and is their any offenders writing for that publication.


city fans here must surely remember paul daly re:intertoto last year :rolleyes:

[Green Force]

Green Force

If they put in match reports for every game in every paper it would be a start! The non-existant First Division coverage in the Irish Times springs to mind. How is any Irish Times reader going to decide whether or not to attend a First Division game when he/she doesn't know it exists if they only read the D'Olier Street Diary ?:mad:

Did these clubs think about making going to the game an attractive proposition for joe public and promote that fact in the community? Again, its not the papers job to promote a league that gets 3 figure crowds. Its the clubs job to get/increase support which in turn results in coverage. Its the real worl FFS.

[A face]

*Being our National league does not confer the right to media coverage. Enough supporters who want media coverage will force that to happen, but at the moment there are only about 50-60,000 LoI fans

There are two points there so the first. The national League does not confer the right to coverage .... Why ?? .... Why does it not ? or why does a foreign league confer the right OVER the national league .... which brings us to the second point above.

There are far more fans that than rest assured and i'll tell you that because i know that at least half that number exist in Cork alone (and that is playing it safe) ..... also ...... and this point should accompany every other point i have made, am making and will make If the league had a level playing field as regards balanced media coverage, funding, etc. and didn't have to deal with the apathy and low self esteem of the nations pride then it wouldn't ever be a numbers game and i am not saying it should be, you, ... by you bringing it up, you are saying that


Tv figures, eh rte probably made them up to flog advertising for matches advertisers didnt want to pay for.

Jebus ... that is very easy to say and also very illegal on RTEs behalf.

Aside for the fact that the licence fee payer is totally entitled to know exactly what is going on, the National Broadcaster (also being allowed to advertise) is allowed to take a licence fee from that National so the nation should be informed/shown what the fúck is going on every week

That is a argument for another day ..... the fact that i think RTE are the scum of the earth should not come into this one.

Also ... i really dont think they would lie to that degree, why would the say ManU gets 150000 viewers and Shels v Bohs 210000 .... Why ?? No logic to that. I'd have to agree with figures to be honest (i have been doing a bit of homework for an article ... alot to do still, but i have spoken with Dutch, Belgian, Swedish etc. TV and compared numbers and they seem right) with what i know so far.


*"TIP: Just to let you know ..... not matter what league you go to, where ever in the world, in every single sport ... there will always be a team at the the bottom and probably breaking even. " Point is its not feckin newsworthy, get over it.

I dunno ... ask any club that is down there, and ask they people just above them with two points ibn the difference. Listen ..... do you know when i mentioned "selective" earlier on .... this is partly what i am saying. Sometimes, and i agree not always .... sometimes the selection is not always correct. The play off in the last few years for teams going up and down has been a great competition and a huge plus point for fans, neutral and vested interest alike. It is brilliant to watch .... you selection procedure/method/whatever the fúck obmits this .... and the fans would lose out !!

I actually think that you might not be getting what i am saying at this stage .... i, when reading about a team at the bottom of the league or the top of the one below, dont really care how much points they have mathematically ... it is the dog fight kinda battle that they are involved in that interests me ... it is the character they show. There is no formula to this ... you cant guage it by points or the financial target they must get to to break even, it is just the story behind it .... ok look ... forget that point so. i give up, you win :)


*positives are there thats my point, but they are not interesting. A positive news story = Nick Leeson, negative = €2.3m debt, and the harps example (apologies to harpers) is just not newsworthy.That is balanced like it or not.

Positive points are not interesting .... again ... read the FÚCKING title of the page .... do you know what i am trying to say to you ..... i am trying to tell you that positives are good news stories and are the stories that alot of people want to read about .... i am saying that normal people by and large want to read about good stuff too, no matter what the topic. Not all people are pesimistic and prey on bad news. This is the whole crux of the debate for me to be honest ... if you dont understand this .... all my effort is wasted. Let me know you opinion on this please ... for gods sake !!


* OK there are some positive stories but the majority of the news from our league worth reporting on is bad news.

Again ... wrong .... and i just cant accept that ..... at all.
You are wrong .... wrong ..... wrong ....!!

Being a Rovers fans (i think that what you said) obviously things aren't rosey right now .... .but the 400 club and Rovers fans in gerneral would put most to shame ... their loyality and faith, and positivity is unmeasured and uncompared. How you cant see a plus point there clearly questions you eyesight !!


*its not the paper/ media/ journalists job to promote the league, they report it as it is in response to what will sell papers.

That .... again is two points and they contradict each other. Media dont have to promote the league .... fair enough, point taken ... just report the facts, nice one.

But to then ...... in response to what you claim, sells papers ... fabricate, and mould lies and tell half truths and play on peoples ignorance about the league, just to sell papers is not fair at all.

To deflect responsiblity for promoting the league on one hand and then on the other, engineer ways to sell papers for short term gain on the other hand is just despicable !! Can you see now what i am saying ...... unbalanced.


* A real licence, ok try this for starters, a licence with specified legal requirements, not loose aspirations that can be taken apart in court. Specific sanctions and degrees of sanction that are binding when the licence committee makes it decision on a club that fails to meet criteria. Whats wrong with the current licence is that it was a project by 3rd class kids on what they thought SHOULD be done but theres no way of implementig it at all. For example, Rovers meet more of the general requirements now than before the examinership started yet the FAI wont be able to apply any specific penalty as its open to judicial review. Jokeshop. (though as a rovers fan I'm quite happy about this point). Uefa issue guidelines, its the FAI who did up the document, I've read it, it is a mess, there are so many ways around it that if it was put on the mad cow roundabout there'd be no traffic problems anywhere in Dublin.

I am sorry ... your argument is all over the place here ..... but i will say the licencing process does have alot of visable benefits that the average punter of the eL league would find hard to not notice.

Fair enough there might be flaws (i honestly cant comment, especially on the legal side of things) but the FAI have taken on board the implementing of this very timely ... one of the first leagues to do so and they have make ongoing changes where need be all along the way.

Also ... the whole process anyway ..... is always going ot be an ongoing thing. Not every club will make the grade (literally half of europe wont right now) but at least they are getting on with it.


*Facilities, ok here's a reply. ANY club could handily enough raise €500k with a bit of a push and a proper plan with the fans. That allows dept of sport funding of a further €1.0m, now EVERY ground in the country could do with a new stand or a €1.5m upgrade. Do that and it will be easir to keep people coming. This is ASIDE from any scheme promised to the FAI that clubs are currently using as an excuse to do nothing.*

As i said earlier ..... i totally agree ....and most definitely i understand that the league has a long long way to go, and i am not making light of it at all.

Also if you think i am blindly trying to defend the league and clubs, you are wrong ... not at all. I realise what has to be done, but i'd like to think i see it objectively, with an informed opinion. But i also see the potential the league has ..... i lived abroad for a long while and i saw the twon where i lived and all the towns around that had a great pride (and reason to be proud) for the clubs and the identity the achieved from it. Personality maybe … character most definitely .... why is that not good enough for the Irish ??

[Anto McC]

You're admitting its a struggle yet demanding that you get blanket positive media coverage.

Despite the popular saying,you won't put out a fire with fire.

[Bald Student]

Tv figures, eh rte probably made them up to flog advertising for matches advertisers didnt want to pay for.I've agreed with most of what you've said Green Force but there's an element of ignoring the facts above that don't suit your opinion.

I think that a lot of eL fans are too quick to blame the media for the leagues problems though. The media are commercial organisations and the crowds attending eL games simply don't justify large ammounts of coverage.

One criticism I have of the media though is that they're very reactive. It was known to every dog on the eL street that Rovers didn't have their financial house in order but the media showed no interest in breaking the story. Had the media put the spotlight on Rovers a few years ago they could have done Rovers and the league a great service.

[pete]

I thinkwe are entitled to criticise the media when they proint mathc reports on meaningless English Championship (new old 1st division) games & SPL have NO ONE in this country has any interest in. Sure people may look at the result when in front of them but how many people actually reading those macth reports.

Again there is a certain level of interest in the top EPL clubs but again NO ONE cares about the bottom EPL teams aside from novelty factor on last day of the season.

Even Newstalk who have good eL coverage have got lazy taking BBC 5 Live commentary on such delights as Birmingham v Fulham which definitely has no stonger pull than local eL games.

The irish media are lazy & pack their newspapers full of english wire service match reports.

:rolleyes:

[hamish]

Yep, I think it's awfully important that Runcorn, Northwich Victoria and Spennymore get page space over here on a Sunday. Unbelieveable when those type of results are in the Sunday newspapers while Eircom matches are ignored. And I don't buy the deadline excuse either.
Cork City, Bohs, Shels etc regularly get pretty good crowds so I don't buy this small attendance excuse. Bad teams in all sports get bad crowds yet there are reports of games involving college hurling matches each Sunday (and rightly so) but no League of Ireland.
Media, with exceptions, just could't be ar$ed.

[GavinZac]

i think we do a good job of keeping the most important form of media up to date :)

[Green Force]

Again very long winded.

To simplyfy my point and in direct relation to the post title "Negative Media", the media are not negative, they cover the stories that deserve to be covered.

now, on to specific points...

*why does a foreign league confer the right OVER the national league
>>>> more people want to read about it.

*There are far more fans that than rest assured and i'll tell you that because i know that at least half that number exist in Cork alone
>>>>eh so cork are getting 30,000 at every game so?

*Positive points are not interesting
>>>> if they were so interesting they would be getting covered. Us LoI fans may want to read about them but its NOT goin to happen ny time soon.

*400 Club How you cant see a plus point there clearly questions you eyesight !!
>>>> but the 400 club ARE getting positive coverage because they have their act together and ARE promoting the club properly.

*That .... again is two points and they contradict each other. Media dont have to promote the league .... fair enough, point taken ... just report the facts, nice one.
>>>> not a contradiction, it is not their job to promote the league, and I get the paper every day and the league is being reported on, not promoted.

*But to then ...... in response to what you claim, sells papers ... fabricate, and mould lies and tell half truths and play on peoples ignorance about the league, just to sell papers is not fair at all.
>>>> Rubbish.

*To deflect responsiblity for promoting the league on one hand and then on the other, engineer ways to sell papers for short term gain on the other hand is just despicable !! Can you see now what i am saying ...... unbalanced.
>>> thats not unbalanced. if there are positive stories worth reporting they get reported on. FACT. There are more negative ones though.

* Uefa licence. Ok in clearer terms the current licence, drafted by the FAI, is a total mess. It is aspirational and has no mechanism to force the implementation of its suggestions and it does not provide sanctions to force implementation that are legally binding. Hence any club could challenge the FAI's decisions in court and the fact is the FAI want to avoid that.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Green Force

1/ 200,000 people watch live Eircom League games on TV

I am sure they would have enjoyed reading about the game in the Saturday morning's papers.

2/ The Premiership rarely gets more than 125,000 viewers

On this basis alone there should be less Premiership coverage in the Papers than the EL!


In the Czech Republic (population 10,000,000 approx) the highest crowd the last weekend I was there was just under 6,000.

The same weekend Cork City from this country ( population 4,000,000) had a crowd approximately the same size.

Therefore on that basis per capita twice as many people attended the EL game in question as attended the Czech game in Question.

Our papers have relatively little coverage of the EL
The Czech papers are full of their own League.

On no basis does the stance of the Irish newspapers make any sense!

[A face]

To simplyfy my point and in direct relation to the post title "Negative Media", the media are not negative, they cover the stories that deserve to be covered.

:p ... but this is one of my points !! :) ..... who is judge and does the jury have any say in this ???

Seriously though ...... just step back and ask yourself ..... If you pose the question to yourself ....

"Are the media picking the correct stories to fully report on the league"

Alright ..... i'll add this ..... if the eircom League improves to a point where it is worthy of proper coverage ..... i know you'll say this wont happen, etc. etc. .... but i am saying IF ....IF the league is turning a corner and improves wnough to warrant proper coverage .... WHEN is the point the media should change their policy ??

Seriously ..... i'd say if you can answer that ..... honestly .... you'd be doing well.



"now, on to specific points..." :)




*why does a foreign league confer the right OVER the national league
>>>> more people want to read about it.

I say you are wrong ..... as CollegeTillIDie said ..... it appears that the numbers are in favour with the league.

If this is the case ...... then again i ask ........

Who decides ...... and by what metric ..... and what time frame ??

Does / will / would the media represent or reflect the numbers that are interested ??

How do they guage ?? How do they market research so to speak ??

Do they ACTUALLY know ..... or do they unknowingly PRESUME they know !!


*There are far more fans that than rest assured and i'll tell you that because i know that at least half that number exist in Cork alone
>>>>eh so cork are getting 30,000 at every game so?

No ... but there are 10,000 regular attending fans .... (there are more but the survey rounded down) and .... there are fans with in a 50 mile radius that have an interest, (i.e. would buy a paper to read how City got on) in the league that exceeds 30,000 ... but in a recent poll to find the all time top City team etc. there were 8600 votes (and the demographics say that 10% will have voted, out of the people who read that part of the paper) I think that might be a bit high but .... to answer your question .... well over 30000 people interested in Citys games alone ..... and if you were to look further i'd say you would be suprised.

I am not privie to all the numbers and figures .... but i'd definitely say that there are alot of people who dont get to games and RELY on the paper to see what is going on ... the is where the paper could play a good role .... by reporting the whole story and not selecting what that particular journalist wants etc.


*Positive points are not interesting
>>>> if they were so interesting they would be getting covered. Us LoI fans may want to read about them but its NOT goin to happen ny time soon.

See .... my previous points disagree with this .... my point here is that i want to CONTEST the fact that "if they were so interesting they would be getting covered" .... i want to contest it because i think it is a flawed argument .... and because it is flawed ..... the league isn't getting the coverage it deserves. It is THAT argument that i dont agree with and the whole purpose of the thread.


*400 Club How you cant see a plus point there clearly questions you eyesight !!
>>>> but the 400 club ARE getting positive coverage because they have their act together and ARE promoting the club properly.

A drop in the National Football League ocean !!!


*That .... again is two points and they contradict each other. Media dont have to promote the league .... fair enough, point taken ... just report the facts, nice one.
>>>> not a contradiction, it is not their job to promote the league, and I get the paper every day and the league is being reported on, not promoted.

No ... you missed my point.

My point is basically .... the media (to give it a name, i am generalising obviously) ... the media want their cake and eat it !!

By this i mean .... in short

I said that the media have a choice, to promote or not promote the league, .... am i said fair nuff

We'd both agree that choice to take is NOT promote the league but simply to REPORT on it ...... we are agreed to this point.

The problem stems from here ..... the media ..... Dont report properly on the league. It is not balanced (objective opinion, i.e. It is one sided ... and thats alway the bad side) ....... it is not the full story, as regards covering all issues concerning the league (i.e. Not the full picture) ...... and .....

take in this next point now ....


*But to then ...... in response to what you claim, sells papers ... fabricate, and mould lies and tell half truths and play on peoples ignorance about the league, just to sell papers is not fair at all.
>>>> Rubbish.

You say rubbish .... and i say exactly ..... it is rubbish, complete and utter, rubbish reporting on the league at stages .... look at thecorner's post ... Paul "i am based in the US" Daly ...... reported on a match and he was in a different time zone, country, continent .... might just as well have been a different planet. Cringe factor for the guy was through the roof .... he got it horribly wrong .... and lead to a radio phone in that totally exposed the guy. Bab move on his part .... but in fairness ... you tried to chance it and got caught out.

You say it is rubbish, as in not true ..... i tell you a very very different story !! I'd hold my hands up if i was wrong ..... but i am not ..... when i said the punter is being cheated earlier .... i really really meant it, because i objectively see both sides and it is like hindsight .... there are horror stories. That is largely my problem .... surely you must understand this ....

What i am saying is that, at times ... it is so far from the truth .... it doesn't bare thought !! Alarm bells, sirens ... whatever you need .... i am telling you there is a problem.


*To deflect responsiblity for promoting the league on one hand and then on the other, engineer ways to sell papers for short term gain on the other hand is just despicable !! Can you see now what i am saying ...... unbalanced.
>>> thats not unbalanced. if there are positive stories worth reporting they get reported on. FACT. There are more negative ones though.

It is unbalanced .... that is not the problem .... It is highlighting the fact that it is unbalanced.

FACT ...... i am telling you that it is not FACT

How have you come up with that ..... how do you know it is FACT !!


Should it not be more along the lines of report the events as they happen .... be objective ..... impartial ..... neutral

Do you know what i mean .... What i am saying is ...... along the lines of "Tell it how it is !!"

By you saying .... there is more negative ..... on news that hasn't happened yet !! .... there is a glaring error on your behalf

How can you decide on news that has NOT happened yet ??

Can you see what i am saying ??


* Uefa licence. Ok in clearer terms the current licence, drafted by the FAI, is a total mess. It is aspirational and has no mechanism to force the implementation of its suggestions and it does not provide sanctions to force implementation that are legally binding. Hence any club could challenge the FAI's decisions in court and the fact is the FAI want to avoid that.

I wont claim to know this one .... you could be right ....


But


Are they the same guildlines that every other association are given ??

This league is implementing the licencing (granted you say there are problems and i agree, they need to be copperfastened) .... but do you think .... in your own opinion that .....

A. The FAI/the league deserve a break for being on of the first leagues to get this going, to not learn for others mistakes, to get stuck in and implement it.

B. The system being implemented ..... again you say is flawed .... but the system and the end product ... every club in the league are looking at their situation and looking at a means to improve them ... with the licencing as a blue print.

They are improving .... even with the "flawed blue print" ... and will continue to improve .... so even if it is flawed, is there nothing to be said for its impact !!

In the last five years ... there have been good changes, if you want to see them ... you will .... if you dont want to see them, you by your own conviction will ensure you wont see them.

Either way .... the league is improving and time is its friend. The columns and word counts will stay roughly the same ... but the clubs wont .... they will continually chip away improving etc. .... taking all the breaks it can along the way .... and will increasing grow to be a better product for the punter .... it will (IMO) come to the stage where the media WILL have to fall in line or face the possiblity of being exposed and seen for all its errors and inaccuracies. Kicking and screaming as they say .... sure we'll all just wait and see !!

[A face]

to answer your question .... well over 30000 people interested in Citys games alone

I just want to add to this ..... to just have said it really .... :)

That is 30,000 people without proper coverage ...... Disproportionate paper coverage, mixed (some good alright, credit where its due) but practically no TV coverage. If you compare to foreign football, it is not worth talking about. The radio is OK, mixed aswell but again, dont go comparing ... you wont like what you see.

My point ..... that is 30,000 without proper coverage, with no support or promotion ...... if you did the figures and looked at the demographics and research and mirrored that ... can you imagine what it would be ??




If it were a level playing field ...... ???

[Green Force]

To simplify even more, a handfull of sports editors decide what is reported in their papers. If they dont sell their papers they lose their job.

*IF the league is turning a corner and improves wnough to warrant proper coverage..... Yeah but thats my point, if/when that happens coverage will improve and have more positives to report. thats the reality and until that happens there'll be more oilygates and licence/rules controversies.


*I say you are wrong ..... as CollegeTillIDie said ..... it appears that the numbers are in favour with the league.... true, and if the FAI had their act together in this regard they might capitalise on the viewing figures.

*Does / will / would the media represent or reflect the numbers that are interested ?? ....Journalists are inherrently lazy cnuts, they need to be force fed, whether hacks or editors..

*How do they guage ?? How do they market research so to speak ??... they dont, the clubs/fai should, and spoon feed them to get coverage on this basis.


*I hate cork and don't really give a toss, but they dont get 30,000 a game full stop, so give up the pedantics, crowds are brutal everywhere.

*I am not privie to all the numbers and figures .... but i'd definitely say that there are alot of people who dont get to games and RELY on the paper to see what is going on ... the is where the paper could play a good role .... by reporting the whole story and not selecting what that particular journalist wants etc......NOT the papers job, its the clubs job to feed papers worthwhile stories to MAKE them publicise this, ie halftime heroes that rovers did for the last two weeks got coverge in the papers and the news websites.



*See .... my previous points disagree with this .... my point here is that i want to CONTEST the fact that "if they were so interesting they would be getting covered" .... i want to contest it because i think it is a flawed argument .... and because it is flawed ..... the league isn't getting the coverage it deserves. It is THAT argument that i dont agree with and the whole purpose of the thread.
....Chill pill, the clubs need to draw attention to stories, hacks are lazy, make it easy for them. All the other associations do it.

*My point is basically .... the media (to give it a name, i am generalising obviously) ... the media want their cake and eat it !!
....Yes, its called capitalism, get over it.

*The problem stems from here ..... the media ..... Dont report properly on the league. It is not balanced (objective opinion, i.e. It is one sided ... and thats alway the bad side) ....... it is not the full story, as regards covering all issues concerning the league (i.e. Not the full picture) ...... and .....
... not true.

*What i am saying is that, at times ... it is so far from the truth .... it doesn't bare thought !! Alarm bells, sirens ... whatever you need .... i am telling you there is a problem.... Not true.

*By you saying .... there is more negative ..... on news that hasn't happened yet !! .... there is a glaring error on your behalf ... no, i guarantee 80% of news that come s out of the league will be bad news.

*Are they the same guildlines that every other association are given ??

This league is implementing the licencing (granted you say there are problems and i agree, they need to be copperfastened) .... but do you think .... in your own opinion that .....
..... YES and it is the FAI's job to make them compatible with the law in this country so they can be implemented. They obviously have failed. Quel surprise.

*A. The FAI/the league deserve a break for being on of the first leagues to get this going, to not learn for others mistakes, to get stuck in and implement it.
.... its not very implemented, rovers are in examinership, in france or italy that woul mean relegation

*B. The system being implemented ..... again you say is flawed .... but the system and the end product ... every club in the league are looking at their situation and looking at a means to improve them ... with the licencing as a blue print.
.... not really, they are doing as little as possible of it so they can get thier hands on grant money.

[pete]

Why do the irish media give scores for english league one, two & sometimes even scottish 1st division?

Do even a handful of readers have any interest at all?

:confused:

[EnDai]

I have a strong interest in the Conference, so I'm sure others are interested in League One and Two.

[Slash/ED]

I have a strong interest in the Conference, so I'm sure others are interested in League One and Two.

More than our own league? The point is it gets coverage despite the fact that surely only a very small minority could be interested in it, much smaller than would be interested in the EL.

[A face]

I give up .... Green Force all i'll say is that if half the journalists in the country were like you, it would be a sorry sorry state.

I am not trying to insult you, but it is like talking to the wall. I really dont think it is worth the effort.

If there were a union for journalists, i dont think they'd be very happy with you .... you have made them out to be muck.

[aido_b]

If there were a union for journalists, i dont think they'd be very happy with you .... you have made them out to be muck.

There is, its called the NUJ, and they defo wouldn't be too happy with you Green Force! you've pretty much managed to **** off every journo thats on these boards with your above comments

[Green Force]

Yeah, but unless I issue a press release they'll be too lazy to do anything about it.

Here's the complete list of good sports journalists:

Gerry Thornley.
Paul Hyland.

As for the NUJ, pyssed off they may be but as long as Mick McCaffrey is a member and there's no PCC they can stay pyssed off.


There is, its called the NUJ, and they defo wouldn't be too happy with you Green Force! you've pretty much managed to **** off every journo thats on these boards with your above comments

[Green Force]

I'm not backing what they're doing, I'm saying its reality and its in the club's and the FAIs power to do something about it.

[TonyD]

Yeah, but unless I issue a press release they'll be too lazy to do anything about it.

Here's the complete list of good sports journalists:

Gerry Thornley.
Paul Hyland.

As for the NUJ, pyssed off they may be but as long as Mick McCaffrey is a member and there's no PCC they can stay pyssed off.


By no stretch of the imagination is Paul Hyland a good sports journalist. He has basically two themes which he regurgitates ad nauseum.

1. Man Utd. What Roy Keane("His Corkness" - sweet jesus), Alex Feguson and all are having for breakfast, what they should be having for breakfast, the implications for the Ireland team of what they're having for breakfast.

2. The FAI. They're rubbish (Hey, everyone has spotted that one) Wheeled out every time there is another bit of nonsense from the Merrion Square blazers. He also has a sideline in being the harbinger of doom every time an Irish club gets into trouble (The only interest he ever takes in the game here)

[A face]

Here's the complete list of good sports journalists:

Gerry Thornley.
Paul Hyland.


Jebus Gerry Thornley / Paul Hyland will love you ... singing prasies like that. You'll definitely be an addition to one christmas card list .... fair play to you, that is just so damned nice of you. He will really appreciate it reckon !!

[thomas]

they'll be cutting and pasting your contribution fairly shortly too!

[aido_b]

Here's the complete list of good sports journalists:

Gerry Thornley.
Paul Hyland.


that just shows how much you actually read sport everyday. Wheres Aidan Fitzmaurice, Neil O Riordan or Stephen Finn.