John Caulfired

[seand]

It's been mentioned elsewhere, but surely worth a thread of it's own. John Caulfield mutually agreed out of a job.

After 5 years of success I'd have thought he'd built up enough credit to survive one third of a crap season, but it seems pretty grim so far this season, with 3 wins from 13. What do the resident Cork fans think?

In five years in charge his worst performance was finishing second to (arguably) the best LoI team of all time, you just wonder who's going to come in and do a better job

[Lim till i die]

John Caulfired??

Always preferred Long Ballfield myself.

[Longfordian]

It may have been as much to do with his public moaning about his budget being cut etc as the on the field performance.

[El-Pietro]

Greatest ever manager, incredibly consistent league performances. Never lost a cup tie in 90 minutes as far as I remember, only lost to Bohs after a replay in 2014.

Unfortunately, this year things have fallen apart. Its really sad to see it end this way but a change was needed. Its not just the results, we didnt look like we were going to turn it round, unable to do simple things well. Only 12 goals this season through 14 games and 4 of those came in a crazy game in Donegal in which Harps also scored 3. Unable to beat Harps at home who might be the worst LOI Premier team since Galway in 2011. They actually were probably the better team on Monday and were not afraid to press and challenge us. They hadn't won at the Cross in a couple of decades. When you get to that stage something has to be done.
I'm worried about what comes next because you can never know how a manager will fit in with a team. I have no great love for Kenny but his achievements speak for themselves, and he failed at Rovers. We could bring in someone experienced and it might not work, or we could go with someone inexperienced and it could be an inspired appointment, or vice versa.

[El-Pietro]

It may have been as much to do with his public moaning about his budget being cut etc as the on the field performance.

I doubt it. We will have to pay him now and pay his replacement. Our budget is smaller this year and probably needs to be cut further based on crowds so far, this decision will have financial implications and our membership are very financially conservative given our clubs history.

But feel free to believe what you want.

[Longfordian]

I don’t care enough to believe anything too strongly to be honest. It was just idle speculation.

[White Horse]

If a reminder is needed at how fickle supporters are and how vicious clubs are, the sacking of John Caulfield is a perfect reminder.

Caulfield took over a club in the graveyard and brought them unprecedented success in their short history.

A poor run of games in little over quarter of the current season, fans turn on him, personally abuse him, and then his club sacks him.

Who would be a manager.

[Ezeikial]

It may have been as much to do with his public moaning about his budget being cut etc as the on the field performance.

The results this season are obviously the core issue, but the performances have hardly instilled any significant confidence that the current management could change it - meanwhile crowds tumble and the finances suffer. But his continual comments about budget cuts and the direction taken by the board could hardly have helped his relationship with the decision makers

[Real ale Madrid]

Its not just a quarter of a season to be fair on the current board. We have 6 wins in the last 22 games - 3 of which were dead rubbers at the end of last season. I would have given him more time and will always be a massive fan but there have been problems on the field for nearly a year and recruitment since the double winning season has not been up to scratch either. It is harsh on him I think but a club with our spending capabilities shouldn't be in a relegation battle.

[Ezeikial]

Greatest ever manager, incredibly consistent league performances. Never lost a cup tie in 90 minutes as far as I remember, only lost to Bohs after a replay in 2014.


I presume that you mean greatest ever manager of Cork City? If so, I totally agree

His record is remarkable,, although your memory is letting you down about the cup record



I'm worried about what comes next because you can never know how a manager will fit in with a team. I have no great love for Kenny but his achievements speak for themselves, and he failed at Rovers. We could bring in someone experienced and it might not work, or we could go with someone inexperienced and it could be an inspired appointment, or vice versa.

I understand your point about fear of the unknown, although it is hard to envisage the situation getting worse than it is at the moment.

[joey B]

1 league title and 2 FAI cups never finished outside the top 2 in his 5 seasons probably unfortunate that he came up against one of the best sides we've ever seen in our league,the league should probably thank Caulfield and Cork that we don't have a complete monopoly from Oriel Park at the minute.

[ArFella]

Given the timing and the recent news stories surrounding their big Munster rivals, Limerick, leads me to conclude that Cork are about to poach the LoI's greatest ever manager, Sean Connor, right from under their noses.

[seand]

Roddy Collins has some unfinished business on Leeside too. He's never had a team relegated you know

[redarmyfaction]

We inexplicably sacked Ian Barraclough miss season this ending our most successful era and haven't even aspired to mediocrity since lucky to have stayed up since TBH.

Karma is a bitch
dere's no escapin it
Karma is a bitch
y'u bettah face up to it

[pineapple stu]

A poor run of games in little over quarter of the current season, fans turn on him, personally abuse him, and then his club sacks him.

Who would be a manager.

Ah it's a lot longer than a quarter of a season in fairness. Cork have been poor - by their standards - since June last year anyway; almost a full year. Four pretty poor performances in Europe followed by mid-table league form for the next three months. The collapse the previous season once Maguire left was startling too.

It's a tough one for the Cork board. There was a strong case things were going stale by the end of last season, but it would have a big call to change manager over the winter. I don't think the board had any real choice but to act now.

[Brusher]

Has Stuart Ashton got the proper credentials ? Wasn't he very popular in the under age system..he'd be very aware of what's coming through.

[joey B]

So who are the serious candidates for the job?
I'm sure it'll get interest from the UK aswell.

[micls]

The idea that this is a kneejerk decision based on the last 8 games is nonsense.

John Caulfield is a legend, that's not up for debate.

But we have been declining for 18 months. Since last July, our league form has been appalling, losing far more than we've won. It's been almost a year of very poor form. This decision wasn't rushed into.

The hope was the off season would give a chance to change it up and turn it around, but it's gone the other way. And the key part in the decision is that we don't look to have the capacity to turn it around.

Lots of people with very little knowledge making claims of it being rash and unfair. But they haven't been watching the last year. Crowds have plummeted, income is significantly dropped and if we miss out on Europe that's a huge hole in next year's budget. That leads to further cuts and the cycle continues.

Change was needed. Its unfortunate it happened as it did, as JC will probably be our most successful manager for a long time to come.

He brought us from mid table to consistent top 3. What he achieved was incredible.

But nothing lasts forever in football, and it's time for a change. Huge risk, and plenty of nerves about it, but still needed.

[El-Pietro]

Statement from JC
http://www.redfm.ie/news/sport/john-caulfield-releases-statement-following-departure-from-cork-city/

[Mr A]

Would Cork have the wherewithal to tempt Keith Long to come down there?

[micls]

Would Cork have the wherewithal to tempt Keith Long to come down there?

Doubt it. Doesn't he had a good day job? And he's recently signed a 3 year deal.

[Lim till i die]

Roy Keane??

Whatever he'd cost would be recouped and then some on the gate.

The problem caulfield had was that his teams are generally absolutely septic to watch. Which is fine when things are going well. But when they are not it really speeds up the decision to get rid. Because whatever about paying money to watch winning ****e people won't pay to watch losing ****e. I've no doubt 1600 odd at a league game while being all the points off the euro places would have caused a few brown trousers in the boardroom.

Imho the time to get rid of caulfied was the end of the season before last.

Watching cork from a Limerick point of view I remember being amazed after Maguire left.

Martin Russell's Relegation Roadshow actually picked up more points than a supposedly title challenging cork side after Maguire left.

At the end of that season a player of the calibre of Bastien Hery was knocking around Limerick available on the cheap. Waterford picked him up.

Because a john caulfield managed side had no use for a Bastien Hery.

Kind of summed him up for me.

[Lim till i die]

I just realised I've a lost year there lol (easy as a Limerick fan)

I stand over my points/barely disguised slurs.

[Dalymountrower]

That`s three of the five Delaney strongholds crumbling, Cork, Waterford and Limerick. Just Tipp and Kerry to go.

[Johnnie C]

Think he was harshly treated, what he achieved in previous seasons should have bought him more time. Done it all with the club as player and manager and took over when the club were on (yet another) low ebb. A lot of Cork fans showing yet again how fickle they are by the hounding some gave him recently as the crowds thinned out by the week at a time when a team really needs support. But there's a long history of crowds deserting teams in Cork.

[Dalymountrower]

. A lot of Cork fans showing yet again how fickle they are by the hounding some gave him recently as the crowds thinned out by the week at a time when a team really needs support. But there's a long history of crowds deserting teams in Cork.

Yeah, am old enough to remember that the "Cork 800" related to both the cod anniversary of English rule and the average Cork City crowd in 1985.

[oriel]

Greatest ever manager, incredibly consistent league performances. Never lost a cup tie in 90 minutes as far as I remember, only lost to Bohs after a replay in 2014.

Unfortunately, this year things have fallen apart. Its really sad to see it end this way but a change was needed. Its not just the results, we didnt look like we were going to turn it round, unable to do simple things well. Only 12 goals this season through 14 games and 4 of those came in a crazy game in Donegal in which Harps also scored 3. Unable to beat Harps at home who might be the worst LOI Premier team since Galway in 2011. They actually were probably the better team on Monday and were not afraid to press and challenge us. They hadn't won at the Cross in a couple of decades. When you get to that stage something has to be done.
I'm worried about what comes next because you can never know how a manager will fit in with a team. I have no great love for Kenny but his achievements speak for themselves, and he failed at Rovers. We could bring in someone experienced and it might not work, or we could go with someone inexperienced and it could be an inspired appointment, or vice versa.


I was thinking earlier, only for Kenny being at Dundalk for 2013 – 2018, JC probably would have won another league title, maybe even two, who knows. His haul of 1 league and 2 cups is fairly decent to be fair, especially being in the job around the same time as Kenny, 6.5 years? The rivarly was a massive thing too in my book, as it was only Cork during that Kenny period who properly challenged Dundalk every year.

I can’t help thinking he was very badly let down by senior players like Morrissey and Buckley being just two, and maybe even McCormack, these guys should have dragged the others to better levels during the past month when the rot was firmly in place. Benson also at the back, should he had led better? then the mistake after mistake by McNulty, all car crash stuff.

Cork fans can quite rightly feel he was their greatest manager ever, he gave them great service both as a player and a manager, but it was absolutely the right timing to part today.

[Johnnie C]

Yeah, am old enough to remember that the "Cork 800" related to both the cod anniversary of English rule and the average Cork City crowd in 1985.
Spot on although you might even be generous with that figure. Sure I saw someone once that Shamrock Rovers fans outnumbered the home support at the 86 Cup semi final second leg at Flower Lodge although in City's defence they were 4-1 down after first leg and hadn't a hope of overturning it.

[El-Pietro]

Spot on although you might even be generous with that figure. Sure I saw someone once that Shamrock Rovers fans outnumbered the home support at the 86 Cup semi final second leg at Flower Lodge although in City's defence they were 4-1 down after first leg and hadn't a hope of overturning it.

What does 1986 have to do with fans today? The world has moved on massively from then. Our fan base is quite young, many weren't even born in 1986, and a significant portion would have been too young to attend, myself included.

[osarusan]

I think part of it is that he recruited so poorly that it's not so much a case of him not getting the best from his players, as that they are just not that good a squad any more.

So I'm not sure a new manager can 'turn things round' so quickly.

[Ezeikial]

I think part of it is that he recruited so poorly that it's not so much a case of him not getting the best from his players, as that they are just not that good a squad any more.

So I'm not sure a new manager can 'turn things round' so quickly.

While hardly anyone would argue with the assertion that he recruited poorly (not just this season but in two consecutive close seasons) there is more to it than that.

While a weaker squad may make competing for the league title very difficult, it does not explain the results and current position

The Cork City website lists the following eleven players as having the most game time in the squad so far this season. Here's a team line up based on that, with the ranking for the most game minutes in brackets


McNulty (1)
McCarthy (3) | Casey (6) | McLoughlin (5) | Griffin (4)
McCormack (8) | Morrissey (9)
Sheppard (10) |Buckley (2)| Tilley (7)
Cummins (11)
https://www.corkcityfc.ie/home/list/senior-team-statistics-2019/

From that list the only newcomers this season are Dan Casey and James Tilley.

That should not be a relegation threatened side with less than a point per match average.

A new manager has a real opportunity to dramatically improve performances and results

[El-Pietro]

Perhaps, but given the level of performances lately I'd be surprised if we saw an immediate turn around.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Doubt it. Doesn't he had a good day job? And he's recently signed a 3 year deal.

He comes in every so often into our office in Dublin fixing a fax machine or something like that (to be honest I don't know what it is at all). Nice guy though.

[Treaty Gooner]

Glitw

[White Horse]

Allan Reynolds being eyed up by Cork.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/waterford-boss-reynolds-on-corks-radar-as-caulfield-exits-38070990.html

[pineapple stu]

Hmm. Hardly setting the world alight with a big budget in Waterford?

[Pablo Escobar]

Allan Reynolds being eyed up by Cork.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/waterford-boss-reynolds-on-corks-radar-as-caulfield-exits-38070990.html

I've heard about 10 different names linked at this stage. Take no notice for the moment I would think.

Anyway, John Cotter has been appointed as Interim Manager.

[White Horse]

Cork targeting continuity as John Cotter is appointed Interim Manager.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0502/1047024-cotter-named-as-interim-cork-city-manager/

[oriel]

If Cork go with Cotter, I think he can only be in place for 60 days or so, then they will have to appoint a manager with the badges. Unelss they can unearth a John Gill type from somewhere.

What would the view on Cotter be for Cork fans, he seemed very behind the scenes, when he worked with JC?

[sidewayspasser]

I'm not sure how I feel about Cotter as interim manager. I always had the impression he's more the loyal servant type, not sure he can lead.
As for the badges, as far as I know Lisa Fallon has Pro badges, but would the club put her in a John Gill like role or would she agree to that? I doubt that. And anyone who would come in from the outside would want to be the manager and not just be there for the badges, I guess.

But that's all just my personal view as a random supporter without any behind the scenes knowledge.

[joey B]

Colin T O'Brien must be a serious consideration,Cork legend,great experience with young players,a O'Brien/Healy/Bennett ticket sounds an attractive one to me.

I suppose it will depend on what the club can offer in terms of finance to improve the squad and whether the job will enable him to fufil his career ambitions....

[Pablo Escobar]

Colin T O'Brien must be a serious consideration,Cork legend,great experience with young players,a O'Brien/Healy/Bennett ticket sounds an attractive one to me.

I suppose it will depend on what the club can offer in terms of finance to improve the squad and whether the job will enable him to fufil his career ambitions....

He is my first pick. I'm not privy to Board discussions, but he must be on their radar.

However, would it be a wise career move for him moving out of a role that he is making a name for himself in, to jump to the rollercoaster of the LOI? It's pot luck really.

[Real ale Madrid]

What would the view on Cotter be for Cork fans, he seemed very behind the scenes, when he worked with JC?

Its fine for the moment in an interim capacity - big opportunity for him if he can turn things around. Has won 3 x FAI intermediate cup and 2 x Munster Senior Leagues witch is almost identical to Caulfield's credentials when he took over. Not convinced by him but I wasn't convinced by Caulfield either when that appointment was made and it worked out ok! Its hard to know. Need to steady the ship first.

[El-Pietro]

Cotter would need to win games, and probably do so in a different style to win a significant portion of fans over. If the football looks similar to how it has done in recent years (even when winning) I suspect many would think hes too similar to Caulfield. From speaking to people who saw his Avondale team regularlyand who know players who played under both JCs at Avondale they are apparently very different managers so we will have to wait and see.

Ashton had a mixed bag of results in his short period in charge in 2013 but we played intense attacking football and people loved it so much that his name still comes up today so if Cotter can get us playing attacking football he'd probably win fans over quickly.

He is on the Pro License course so I think we could rustle up someone with the badge if needed to get him to the end of that.

The most common names being brought up by City fans so far are Colin T, Healy, Fenn and a few shouts for Collie O'Neill and Keith Long. That means nothing of course, we have no idea what the BoM are thinking.

[sullanefc]

If a reminder is needed at how fickle supporters are and how vicious clubs are, the sacking of John Caulfield is a perfect reminder.

Caulfield took over a club in the graveyard and brought them unprecedented success in their short history.

A poor run of games in little over quarter of the current season, fans turn on him, personally abuse him, and then his club sacks him.

Who would be a manager.
That post is full of cr@p to be honest.

Firstly, Caulfield did not take over a club in the graveyard, Tommy Dunne got City promoted to premier before that.

Calling City supporters fickle/vicious etc is also bull. This decision is not based on this season only. In reality, bar a good first half to 2018, we have been muck since Sean Maguire left.

My own report card:
2014 - With little expectation the team came within 90 mins of winning the league. An incredible achievement. Conservative right back selection and approach to the final game had City fans thinking, what if.... but people understood the conservative tactics given the strength of the squad.

2015 - with expectations risen from the previous season, fans were disappointed that we were so far behind Dundalk in the end. The Reykjavik drew enormous criticism and some called for his head as early as then. Having said that, another 2nd place and a cup final (albeit a boring match) had fans largely satisfied.

2016 - Caulfield's best ever recruitment season. Bolger, Browne, Beattie, Dooley, Maguire. Expectations were high but fans were delighted with Caulfield's signings. Finishing second and playing conservatively in many matches had fans wondering if we would ever win under Caulfield. A brilliant run in Europe and winning the cup being the keeps the critics quiet.

2017 Nothing to be said. Amazing achievement but worrying form post Maguire.

2018 Good start but poor 2nd half the the season.

2019 we know.

Caulfield has always had critics. To call this a fickle decision is simply not true.

[ger121]

Doubt it. Doesn't he had a good day job? And he's recently signed a 3 year deal.

I could have sworn I read preseason that he had gone full time. Maybe I’m mistaken.

[marinobohs]

I could have sworn I read preseason that he had gone full time. Maybe I’m mistaken.

I think he said he would like to go full time at some future point.Both Long and Croly penned 3 year contracts so hands off !:p

[CorribsideSteve]

That post is full of cr@p to be honest.

Firstly, Caulfield did not take over a club in the graveyard, Tommy Dunne got City promoted to premier before that.

Calling City supporters fickle/vicious etc is also bull. This decision is not based on this season only. In reality, bar a good first half to 2018, we have been muck since Sean Maguire left.

My own report card:
2014 - With little expectation the team came within 90 mins of winning the league. An incredible achievement. Conservative right back selection and approach to the final game had City fans thinking, what if.... but people understood the conservative tactics given the strength of the squad.

2015 - with expectations risen from the previous season, fans were disappointed that we were so far behind Dundalk in the end. The Reykjavik drew enormous criticism and some called for his head as early as then. Having said that, another 2nd place and a cup final (albeit a boring match) had fans largely satisfied.

2016 - Caulfield's best ever recruitment season. Bolger, Browne, Beattie, Dooley, Maguire. Expectations were high but fans were delighted with Caulfield's signings. Finishing second and playing conservatively in many matches had fans wondering if we would ever win under Caulfield. A brilliant run in Europe and winning the cup being the keeps the critics quiet.

2017 Nothing to be said. Amazing achievement but worrying form post Maguire.

2018 Good start but poor 2nd half the the season.

2019 we know.

Caulfield has always had critics. To call this a fickle decision is simply not true.

I'd forgotten about the Reykjavik away tie. That was particularly awful. Perhaps that was the first signs of things to come.

[El-Pietro]

I'd forgotten about the Reykjavik away tie. That was particularly awful. Perhaps that was the first signs of things to come.

Yep a sign of things to come. A sign of winning against Linfield and Hacken and being a post away from taking the lead away against Genk the year they went on to reach the quarter final of the Europa League the following year.
A sign of winning the cup in 2016. A sign of winning 6-2 on aggregate against Levadia Tallinn in 2017, a sign of going unbeaten with 20 wins from our first 21 games in our double winning 2017 season. A sign of reaching four straight cup finals from 2015-2018 and finishing in the top two of the league for five straight years.
This year has been awful and Caulfield had to go if he couldn't find a way to turn things around which it didn't look like he did but that doesn't invalidate the achievements he had in his time as manager.
Fans of other clubs whinge about our style of play under him but just be greatful he took us to the heights he did or it would have been 5 years of Dundalk dominance with no one remotely close in league or cup

[Martinho II]

theres a lot of talk of Alan Reynolds taking over the Cork City job and considering his brief spell with Cork assisting JC dont be surprised if he jumps ship from Waterford and go to Cork!! AR must surely be ****ed off with LP and the FAI for his european dreams not being fulfilled!!