View Full Version : Shamrock Rovers Examinership Thread
Shamrock Rovers rolling to the brink of ruin
Tuesday April 12th 2005
THE country's most famous football club, Shamrock Rovers, is on the brink of financial ruin with debts of more than €2.36m.
The club, which was founded in 1901, has been without a home ground since 1987. It currently plays home games at Dalymount Park, for which it pays Bohemians Football Club €60,000 a year, the High Court heard yesterday.
Mr Justice Peter Kelly was told the lack of a ground was the main reason for the club's financial woes. Branvard Ltd took over the 'Hoops' in 1996 but had been declared insolvent.
Last week, the 400 Club, set up by Shamrock Rovers' supporters to contribute financially to the team, loaned money to cover players' wages. Despite this, the club's ability to play in the Eircom League is under threat because it failed to meet a schedule of payments agreed with the Revenue Commissioners, who are owed over €540,000. But there may be a glimmer of hope. An independent accountant said the club had a reasonable prospect of survival if a "neutral" ground was found and a full-time commercial manager appointed.
The court heard that the club is in negotiation to secure grounds at Santry's Morton Stadium. Justice Kelly adjourned an application by the company which runs the club to appoint an interim examiner.
Breda Heffernan
© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/
Tuesday April 12th 2005
SHAMROCK Rovers may be forced to drop out of the Eircom League unless an interim examiner is appointed, the financially beleaguered club has warned.
The club, which has debts of over €2.36m, is so cash-strapped that a supporters' club last week paid the players' wages.
Yesterday the football club went to the High Court to make an application for the appointment of an interim examiner. The application was refused but will come before the court again today.
If appointed, an examiner would keep the club running while investigating the viability of the business. He would decide whether to put the company into receivership or liquidation.
Anthony Maguire - a director of Branvard Limited which took over the club in 1996 - told the High Court yesterday that the club had become an institution for successive generations of Dubliners. He added that it had a reputation internationally and domestically not rivalled by any other Irish team.
The club maintains its financial troubles are due to a lack of a permanent home ground. It was based at Glenmalure Park in Milltown until 1987 but since then has been unable to secure new grounds. It currently rents Dalymount Park from Bohemians at a cost of €60,000 a year.
Mr Maguire explained that the club's long-time home ground at Glenmalure Park had been owned by members of the Kilcoyne family who - despite fierce opposition from fans - sold it for development.
The appointment of an interim examiner was supported by the 400 Club, a fund created by Rovers supporters to contribute an agreed annual amount to help the club. Plans to relocate to a new facility at Tallaght have bogged down in planning difficulties and the club has now broached the possibility of moving to Morton Stadium in Santry instead.
However, the club may have contributed to its own difficulties. The court heard that a practice existed whereby it appeared that players had been paid mileage expenses even though transport was provided by the club.
The club has also failed to meet payments to the Revenue Commissioners, who are owed €540,000in PAYE and PRSI arrears, and could lose the right to play in the Eircom League.
The agreement involved payments of €50,000 on December 1, 2004, followed by 20 payments of €18,500 a month commencing at the end of March 2005 and culminating in a final payment of €144,980.
The agreement with the Revenue had been put in place to enable the club to obtain a Tax Clearance Certificate - without which it cannot play in the League.
Various suppliers have issued legal proceedings against the club, as has a former manager who was awarded €30,500 in the Circuit Court after taking an unfair dismissal case.
However, the final whistle may not have sounded just yet for Shamrock Rovers.
An independent accountant believed it had a reasonable prospect of survival if four conditions were met. These include securing a long term home ground, successful completion of negotiations to restructure the company's debts, acceptance of a scheme of arrangement and the appointment of a full-time commercial manager to procure revenue and sponsorship.
Mr Justice Peter Kelly said yesterday he would refuse Branvard's application as there was insufficient evidence showing the company's ability to secure a "neutral" home ground at Morton Stadium in Santry. He also wished the Revenue Commissioners to have an opportunity to be heard on the application.
On that basis, Mr Justice Kelly refused the application but adjourned it to today to allow the club to furnish further evidence on the Morton Stadium option and to allow the Revenue to be represented.
Breda Heffernan
and John Maddock
© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/
The club has also failed to meet payments to the Revenue Commissioners, who are owed €540,000in PAYE and PRSI arrears, and could lose the right to play in the Eircom League.
The agreement involved payments of €50,000 on December 1, 2004, followed by 20 payments of €18,500 a month commencing at the end of March 2005 and culminating in a final payment of €144,980.
The agreement with the Revenue had been put in place to enable the club to obtain a Tax Clearance Certificate - without which it cannot play in the League.
Mr Justice Peter Kelly said yesterday he would refuse Branvard's application as there was insufficient evidence showing the company's ability to secure a "neutral" home ground at Morton Stadium in Santry. He also wished the Revenue Commissioners to have an opportunity to be heard on the application.
On that basis, Mr Justice Kelly refused the application but adjourned it to today to allow the club to furnish further evidence on the Morton Stadium option and to allow the Revenue to be represented.
Breda Heffernan
and John Maddock
© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/
they should have never beeen given a licence, it maks a joke of the league. The rest us play with it the rules & rovers buy a place in the premier division.
carrickharp
12/04/2005, 6:58 AM
In all fairness it would be as very sad day for soccer in Ireland if this happened.
Hibs4Ever
12/04/2005, 7:20 AM
In all fairness it would be as very sad day for soccer in Ireland if this happened.
No way. Good Riddance :D
drummerboy
12/04/2005, 8:43 AM
Interesting to see Morton Stadium being dragged up again. Fingal Co Council have been trying for over a year to get somebody to run the stadium for them as a going concern, on the proviso that Athletics is still the primary sport. The long jump on the inside of the running track has been removed and the pitch widened. The surface is now also far superior that when Rovers last played there. The drawback is the floodlighting is not quite up to the standard of EL football although they are used by Drums in the LSL. This I'm sure could be rectified fairly easily.
dcfc_legend9
12/04/2005, 8:47 AM
i would personally be sorry to see rovers out of the league but if it has to be done then thats it :confused: :confused: :confused:
drummerboy
12/04/2005, 8:47 AM
Are you enjoying what's happening to Rovers.
I'm surprised Rovers have any fans left after goings on in recent years. I think most eL clubs would have folded already.
The club however has failed to live within its means when money has been tight & a 13.5k weekly wage bill is a disgrace.
NY Hoop
12/04/2005, 12:13 PM
they should have never beeen given a licence, it maks a joke of the league. The rest us play with it the rules & rovers buy a place in the premier division.
Can absolutely guarantee you that if CHF went out of the league tomorrow nobody would notice let alone protest.
The club were given a licence. Get over it. If you wanna whinge about it contact Bob Breen and ask him. As for buying a place in the premier..................drivel.
Off to the High Court at 2 to see the examiner being appointed, hopefully!
KOH
I'm surprised Rovers have any fans left after goings on in recent years. I think most eL clubs would have folded already.
The club however has failed to live within its means when money has been tight & a 13.5k weekly wage bill is a disgrace.
I'd say its folded a few times over the years - the clubs name has passed on to various hands - and now we're expected to believe that propping up the existing board who got them into this mess - PURELY due to wreckless trading is the salvation of the club through examinership!!!
:rolleyes:
NY Hoop
12/04/2005, 12:24 PM
I'd say its folded a few times over the years - the clubs name has passed on to various hands - and now we're expected to believe that propping up the existing board who got them into this mess - PURELY due to wreckless trading is the salvation of the club through examinership!!!
:rolleyes:
Honestly dont care what you expect to believe.
The fact is that examinership is the ONLY route available to us. Unfortunately during this examinership the present board have to remain in place.
The 400 club will fund the club during the 70 day period and in this time will actively pursue investors. If no investor comes on board then its bye bye but cant see that happening..............
The current wage bill will have to reduced as we cant get any worse on the field.
KOH
I cannot see any circumstances whereby the current board would up and leave - if the fans bail them out with mega fundraising in the examinership period - the only beneficiaries will be the current board - you cant WISH away ownership - these guys are in it to either own the finished product or take as much dough as they can weasel out for themselves
I've no sympathy because the whole thing was founded on self inflicted wreckless trading - they are not a charity case they are a criminal case
drummerboy
12/04/2005, 12:42 PM
KOH I certainly hope Rovers get sorted out. I see you could be sharing with Drums again in Morton Stadium. Bit ironic that. 2 biggest clubs in Ireland during the 50s and 60s
I think the best solution at this stage might be for Rovers to fold and restart as some clubs in Italy have done. Either way they need rid of the current board and all its debts- its a disaster. As Pete said, its amazing they have any fans left. It would be a big loss to the league though if they were to go
manic da hoop
12/04/2005, 2:21 PM
I cannot see any circumstances whereby the current board would up and leave - if the fans bail them out with mega fundraising in the examinership period - the only beneficiaries will be the current board - you cant WISH away ownership - these guys are in it to either own the finished product or take as much dough as they can weasel out for themselves
I've no sympathy because the whole thing was founded on self inflicted wreckless trading - they are not a charity case they are a criminal case
OK well you're way WAY off the mark here. The last thing that any genuine Rovers fan would want to do is to bank-roll the current board of our club. The central function of the 400 Club over the past few months has been to get rid of them. Thankfully I can confirm that within the past hour the examinership was given the go-ahead in the High Court, so that process effectively starts here. What that more or less means is that the various financial and structural problems that have existed at the club over the past couple of years are now being addressed and, hopefully, rectified with a view to allowing the club to start off on a clean slate - free of debts and free of our board. All current shareholdings will be declared null and void at the end of this 70 -100 day period. After that it is up to us, the fans, to make sure it is a success and that the right people are there to do the right job. If that doesn't happen then the club will die, and we will have nobody to blame but ourselves.
Shamrock Rovers will survive if it deserves to survive.
well good luck with it - but if those rats are still in place at the end - i wont be thinking its "good for the league" or any such wishy washey nonsense
Can absolutely guarantee you that if CHF went out of the league tomorrow nobody would notice let alone protest.
The club were given a licence. Get over it. If you wanna whinge about it contact Bob Breen and ask him. As for buying a place in the premier..................drivel.
Off to the High Court at 2 to see the examiner being appointed, hopefully!
KOH
You can't live off past glory's forever. If there are rules , every club should follow them. if you owe 2.5 million & have a wage bill of 13k a week, you are buying a place in the league. the examiner will not re-pay the 2.5 million. You need to get risd of the clowns that allowed the debt to get to this crazy amount.
well good luck with it - but if those rats are still in place at the end - i wont be thinking its "good for the league" or any such wishy washey nonsense
its a business , end of story.
Are you enjoying what's happening to Rovers.
The board yes , the fans no.
Rovers granted examinership
12/04/2005 - 3:49:04 PM
Shamrock Rovers have been granted a court-approved examinership in a move which the club hopes will end their crippling financial problems.
Branvard, trading as Shamrock Rovers, applied for the examinership – a provision in law to allow a company to suspend the payment of all debts, but continue trading, while a rescue package is put in place - last week.
It was believed by the majority associated with the club that the proposal was one of the few remaining options to keep the club in business, as they struggle with €2.3m debts and no fixed assets.
An independent investigation of the club’s accounts revealed that Branvard were financially insolvent and, if the examinership bid failed, could have faced liquidation.
But Mr Justice Peter Kelly allowed the examinership after seeking assurances that the club are looking for a long-term lease on Morton Stadium in Santry and will not renege on a payment schedule agreed with the Revenue Commissioners.
Mr Neil Hughes has been appointed examiner and he will start work immediately while the Shamrock Rovers’ supporters’ trust, the 400 club, will bankroll the day-to-day running of the club.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/04/12/story197750.html#
thecorner
12/04/2005, 3:02 PM
Are you enjoying what's happening to Rovers.
not one bit.. if they went they would be missed big time
the club we love to hate
the 12 th man
12/04/2005, 3:10 PM
btw, where's conor "kicking king" clarkson these days ?
not one bit.. if they went they would be missed big time
the club we love to hate
You could always learn to hate someone else ;)
You could always learn to hate someone else
So could you, thanks for all the info on Rovers, but you seem a tad fixated on them.....
Passive
12/04/2005, 3:17 PM
One Justice Kelly, there's only one Justice Kelly...
drummerboy
12/04/2005, 3:41 PM
Where will Rovers next home match be played? Dalymount or Morton?
skitz3
12/04/2005, 4:40 PM
Said it before and i will say it again the day shamrock rovers leave the league it will be the WORST day in the history of the league.
said on the news there that the future of rovers could possibly hinge on the good will of the tax man who is owed is 560,000 euro's
pineapple stu
12/04/2005, 6:03 PM
the good will of the tax man
Usually an oxymoron...
If Rovers do fold, how easy would it be to get back into the league, as some have suggested? The Italian teams mentioned elsewhere - and likewise the likes of Aldershot and Telford in England and Dynamo Dresden (?) in Germany - re-entered the league way down the rung and got promoted back up...but we don't have that system. In 30 years' time, will Shamrock Rovers be like Drumcondra are today?
joeraki
12/04/2005, 6:05 PM
Really hope they come good. Off all the Dublin clubs nothing gets the blood boiling on match day than a visit from rovers, maybe bohs. The other 2 pats and shels games where always a bit too lightweight
well according to media reports today they failed/defaulted to met the schedule the tax man set for them how much good will does the taxman have left for them?
higgins
12/04/2005, 8:36 PM
How can everything be ok after the 70-100 days?
Wont you still have 2.36million of Debts!!! Who is going to pay those off?
How can everything be ok after the 70-100 days?
Wont you still have 2.36million of Debts!!! Who is going to pay those off?
They may make a deal to pay 10-30cent in the euro of their debts. I suspect most debts are in the stadium which IMO clubs are stupid trying to pay off upfront (i.e. its like someone paying for house upfront with no mortgage).
I don't think tax man usually does deals with tax owed.
I can't understand how Rovers got the taxman to write them a tax clearance certificate as surely was no chance they'd pay 500k+ tax bill in the short term.
Fans can only do so much (400 club etc...) for their club but I think the Rovers board(s) have been very irresponsible in their managing of the club. Maybe the people should need a licence to run irish football clubs?
So could you, thanks for all the info on Rovers, but you seem a tad fixated on them.....
Post it as i see it. Not a lot else happening at the moment. If nothing else its something the concerns every Eircom league club. The same thing could happen to a lot of the top teams.
joeraki
12/04/2005, 8:54 PM
How can everything be ok after the 70-100 days?
Wont you still have 2.36million of Debts!!! Who is going to pay those off?
I think you pay a percentage of what you owe out, for example say 20 cent for every euro you owe. Might sound strange but if you are owed money and the club goes in liquidation you get nothing.
All Rovers stuff goes here. No multiple threads please.
Yeah, but 5% of 2.36 million is still €118000, which is a fair oul whack of cash when you can't pay the wages as it is.
corkharps
12/04/2005, 9:49 PM
its a business , end of story.
If you're ever stuck for an answer to the question'Why does EVERYBODY hate Dublin City FC?', just have a look at the quote you posted above. It's MORE than a business! Good luck Rovers.
Rovers problem in facing their debt situation is having no collateral against which a loan could be secured. How many other eL teams are there who don't own their ground and who could face similar problems in coping with debts?
Bald Student
12/04/2005, 11:33 PM
Wont you still have 2.36million of Debts!!! Who is going to pay those off?I think that the key thing here is that the current shareholders in Rovers can have their ownership of the club taken off them by the examiner.
The ownership of the club could then be sold to, for example, the supporters at,to pick numbers, 1000 euro per shareholding. If a thousand supporters signed up, then a good chunk of the debt would be cleared.
I'm no expert bit that's the way forward as I see it.
As an eL supporter I hope two things happen in this mess.
That the FAI or the government don't bail out Rovers. That would set a terrible precedint.
That Rovers don't go out of the league, that would be a loss to anyone involved in the eL.
Rovers have spent over their means for a long time now. It is fair that they experience a painfull readjustment. Hopefully at the end of it all they will be still here.
OneRedArmy
12/04/2005, 11:37 PM
If you're ever stuck for an answer to the question'Why does EVERYBODY hate Dublin City FC?', just have a look at the quote you posted above. It's MORE than a business! Good luck Rovers.
You beat me to it Cork Harps.
Why does it not surprise me that a fan of a club with no history views it as "just business"?
I'll give you a simple example. Say you're a fan and a shareholder/400 club member of Rovers, or whatever club.
Say you're also a shareholder in AIB.
Do you spend all day on a website arguing about how well the AIB Chief Executive spoke last week, who the next Finance Director might be and speculating what the interim results will be? Do you travel half the country to visit a branch you haven't been to before?
I could go on. The day football becomes just a business in this country it will die, as the game depends on those that make irrational financial decisions, whether large or small, because they are addicted to football and supporting their club.
The Sheliban
13/04/2005, 5:53 AM
The Rovers board surely knew the scale of their financial problems when they poached Roddy from DC. Clubs like Limerick and Monaghan have to spend within their means. All clubs probably spend a little what they can't afford. But Rovers seem to want their cake and eat it too.
The licensing system is a farce. You can owe another club €100, and not get a licence, yet owe millions to all and sundry, and obtain a licence.
I have great sympathy for most of the Hoops fans, but you don't try to spend your way out of a financial mess. Cut out the large waybill - for managers, players etc - get into Morton Stadium, where at least you'd be able to sell advertising - drop down a division and build your way back up.
If you're ever stuck for an answer to the question'Why does EVERYBODY hate Dublin City FC?', just have a look at the quote you posted above. It's MORE than a business! Good luck Rovers.
It has to be run as a business. You can't just keep spending money & hope some will bale you out or you'll go bust and start again. its bull$hiit to suggest any different. The player's get paid the manager kitman etc get paid, of couse its a business. The reason that clubs are in trouble is that they are not running the clubs properly. Why have Harps been in the first division for the last few years? Because they havn't spent money that they don't have. We had a wage bill of 6k last year, less than half of what Rovers had. They got to stay in the Premier divison, we got relegated. Their has to be an even playing field. If you have the money & can pay the players fair enough, but to owe 2.5 million & still get a licence makes a joke of the whole system.
League to tighten rules as Rovers granted extra time
Wednesday April 13th 2005
EIRCOM LEAGUE clubs will face even more stringent financial tests under the FAI club licensing system following the appointment of an examiner to Shamrock Rovers.
UEFA is currently preparing to introduce phase two of the financial criteria for the club licensing scheme. No date has yet been set for its introduction, but the FAI is actively considering implementing these new standards in the 2006 manual in a bid to prevent a repeat of the Shamrock Rovers case.
The new standards would see clubs having to furnish monthly accounts, detailed cash flow budgets as well as detailed schedules for debt reduction.
The introduction of a salary cap is also a possibility and officials from the FAI's club licensing department have been closely monitoring the operation of a wage protocol in England, where League One and Two clubs have to maintain wages at between 65 and 75 per cent of income.
The FAI's first instance committee will meet within the next few days to discuss the Shamrock Rovers situation and they have the power to withdraw the club's premier division licence.
The FAI had their own legal team in the High Court on Monday and Tuesday keeping a watching brief and they will prepare a report for the first licensing committee.
The seven members of the FLC will be particularly keen to see what documentation was presented in court to support Rovers' petition for examinership and compare it to their application for a club licence back in January.
In both 2004 and 2005 Rovers were refused a licence by the FLC but subsequently obtained one on appeal.
It is believed that, because Mr Justice Peter Kelly feels that Shamrock Rovers has an opportunity to survive as a going concern, the first instance committee will be reluctant to go against the High Court and withdraw their licence during the period of examinership. However, they are sure to seek a meeting with the High Court appointed examiner, Neil Hughes, to hear his plans for the club and also to make him aware of the club's commitments under the licensing procedure.
Although several Eircom League clubs has privately indicated that they are extremely unhappy at the situation, there is unlikely to be any sanction against Rovers in the short-term.
Unlike the English League, where Wrexham were deducted ten points for going into administration, there is no provision in the eircom League's rule book for clubs going into examinership. However, they could be excluded from next year's competition if the majority of clubs at a special general meeting of the League felt that they were guilty of misconduct.
The PFAI have been in contact with their members at Rovers and have also had discussions with members of the 400 Club, who will be bankrolling the club over the period of the examinership. The Rovers players have been receiving their wages since the season started and the PFAI will continue to adopt only a watching brief as long as that continues.
The Shamrock Rovers 400 Club held an egm in Tallaght on Monday night and agreed to financially support the club through the examinership process.
"The 400 Club is crucial to the future of Shamrock Rovers and pivotal to the success of the examinership. We are fully committed to the cause and believe that the current crisis at Rovers can be resolved," said chairman Jonathan Roche.
Since the 400 Club was formed two years ago, they have contributed around €300,000 to Rovers.
Rovers manager Roddy Collins said he supported the move to examinership and the decision of the 400 Club to financially support the club over the next few months.
DUNDALK'S plans to unveil their new artificial pitch at Oriel Park on April 21 have failed to materialise and their 'home' game against Limerick that night will take place at United Park.
"The problem is still down to finance although we have heard that the Department of Sport are close to releasing the funding," said Dundalk CEO Sean Connolly. "We are disappointed that Oriel will not be ready but I would ask all Dundalk supporters to be patient."
Dundalk hope to be back in Oriel Park for the Monaghan United game on May 5.
Gerry McDermott
© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/
2.36m in debt, players not being paid, examiner appointed by the court.
Any other league in the world would revoke their license or at the very least dock them 10 points.
But Oh no, this is rovers and all the bull**** that we need them in the league comes out.
The rest of the clubs in the league have to support themselves and sort out their own finances but time after time rovers have been bailed out by the FAI and the government.
They cant get their stadium built and they cant run a football club, by keep giving them money and time isnt helping, obviously.
The other clubs can vote to have them expelled from the league for the next season due to misconduct. i hope this happens and rovers learn once and for all its the same rules for EVERY club
manic da hoop
13/04/2005, 9:40 AM
The management problems at Rovers have been on-going now for years, afterall you don't rack up a debt of over €2million over night on the turnover of an eL club. We as Rovers fans have been tearing our hair out at the way this club has been run during that time. Finally now it would seem we have finally been given a chance to rectify those problems once and for all and, hopefully, put new structures in place that will secure the future of this club for many years to come. The first phase starts hear, the ball is now in our court and if we (the fans) **** it up then I don't expect any sympathy from anyone.
Bear in mind that the High Court do not grant Examinerships willy-nilly, otherwise every company in Ireland would willing allow themselves to accumulate massive debts safe in the knowledge that they can then use this process to bail themselves out when the time comes. Judge Peter Kelly granted it on our behalf on the basis that we have a viable future as a top eircom League club. It is up to us now to prove him right and justify his confidence. At the risk of sounding a little arrogant, I just hope that everyone in football in this country gives us whatever support they can for the good of the game as a whole in Ireland, because without us the league would be a much poorer place.
Koh.
The other clubs can vote to have them expelled from the league for the next season due to misconduct. i hope this happens and rovers learn once and for all its the same rules for EVERY club
:rolleyes: the problem is Shels/Pats & a few others are in the same boat. it would be like turkeys voting for christmas.
drummerboy
13/04/2005, 10:08 AM
Ringo you seem obsessed by Shamrock Rovers plight. Are you Ronan Seery?
higgins
13/04/2005, 10:16 AM
Judge Peter Kelly granted it on our behalf on the basis that we have a viable future as a top eircom League club
The same can be then said of every club within the league :mad:
You actually bought your way to premier division survival last season by building up more debts at the expense of clubs like Dublin City :mad: I'm not a Dublin city fan and think they are a 1st division team but it gives nobody the right to overspend and gain an advantage.
This rule of examinership is crazy. You get away with clearing debts and a clean slate while others such as Shels still have plenty of Debts!! This cant go unpunished surely??? The point was made that Pats and shels also have debts and yes that's true but you either manage your debts within the club an play football within your budget or you drop out of the league and go down the road of examinership.
You cant have your cake and eat it...
I'll be shocked if after 70 days you are allowed continue trading as normal with no points reduction or players wage reduction or enforced relegation and your 2million less in debt! That's a crazy idea.... Are rovers fans for real when they think that will happen?
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