Shamrock Rovers Examinership Thread

[trevy]

I can see both points of view here on whether Shamrock Rovers should survive or not.A football club isn't just a business however it shouldn't be allowed run up huge debts and not pay them off either just because they are a football club and were Ireland's most successful in the past.I wouldn't like to see any team go bust but theres been famous clubs throughout Europe who've totally gone out of business or had to drop out of professional football and reform at amateur level.I think this is the last chance saloon for Rovers to sort things out and hopefully they can.

[joeraki]

No figures were ever agreed. Tony Maguire made them up. One of many lies to the Rovers fans.

No they where never agreed, but I know for a fact that Clarkson moving in would leave Rovers with a debt in the years to come that was unpayable. To me the Clarkson deal was like making a deal with the devil. "I'll pay all your debts off now but in 6/7 years time your mine !!"

[Ringo]

Monday April 25th 2005


THE appointment of Neil Hughes as examiner to Shamrock Rovers is expected to be confirmed in the High Court this morning.

The full hearing will take place today with the club's creditors entitled to representation at the hearing with the Dublin club owing €2.36m.

Two weeks ago Hughes was charged by the High Court with coming up with a plan that would enable creditors recover their debts and ensure the future viability of the club by attracting investors and hiring a full-time commercial manager.

He will deliver a report to the High Court today during which he is expected to outline the considerable amount of goodwill there is towards Rovers in their present plight.



© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

[Ringo]

Rovers can be saved, court told


THE High Court was told yesterday that there is "cautious optimism" that an arrangement can be put in place to ensure the survival of the company that runs Shamrock Rovers Football Club.

But the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) is seeking further clarification in relation to financial information it was given relating to the club.

During an application for the appointment of an examiner to Branvard Ltd, trading as Shamrock Rovers, it was stated that there were seven separate parties interested in investing in the club.

Branvard has debts of €2.36m with more than €540,000 due to the Revenue Commissioners in respect of PAYE and PRSI arrears.

Ms Justice Mary Laffoy appointed accountant Neil Hughes as examiner to Branvard Ltd.

Following yesterday's appointment, the judge allowed 60 days from April 11 last, when the petition to appoint an examiner was presented, for a survival package to be drawn up.

In his affidavit, Mr Hughes said he had made "significant progress" in satisfying the conditions identified as being necessary to secure the survival of the company.

Meanwhile, High Court proceedings in which Shamrock Rovers was challenging South Dublin Co Council's refusal to extend a grant of permission to allow completion of the club's new 10,000 seater stadium in Tallaght were struck out yesterday with no order at the request of the club.

John Maddock

© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

[Ringo]

Rovers facing expulsion fear

Tuesday April 26th 2005


SHAMROCK ROVERS are facing possible expulsion from the eircom League after the FAI unearthed several discrepancies in their application for a 2005 club licence.

Rovers have until tomorrow to explain why the balance sheets submitted as part of their audited accounts for 2003 and 2004 are absolutely identical - as are the figures for tangible and intangible fixed assets.

The club could also face questions from the Office of Corporate Enforcement as the audited accounts were filed with the Companies Office.

And, to add to Rovers' worries, the FAI has asked them to explain the relationship of their company secretary and director Paul Boyle with their auditors, J P O'Donohoe & Company, who are based in Waterford.

The FAI is also looking for a detailed explanation of a €900,000 loan Rovers received from Slonepark, the company set up to construct and operate their proposed new stadium in Tallaght.

The FAI became aware of the discrepancy following a meeting with examiner Neil Hughes at which he showed them the accounts prepared for the High Court by an independent auditor.

The association subsequently wrote to the examiner and Rovers chairman Tony Maguire and the matter was mentioned in the High Court yesterday when Justice Mary Laffoy approved the appointment of Hughes. She expressed concern at the FAI's letter which was read out in court and requested that the High Court be immediately informed of any sanction taken by the FAI that could affect the survival prospects of Rovers as a going concern.

The examiner said after yesterday's hearing that the licence question must be resolved if he is to secure the investment needed to ensure the survival of the club.

If it's found that Rovers has violated any of its club licence obligations, there is a whole range of penalties open to the FAI - including expulsion.

Last night Maguire said that Rovers would be seeking a personal hearing with the FAI to explain the discrepancies in the accounts and insisted that no attempt had been made to deceive the licensing department. "There was an error made in the filing of the accounts," he said.

Maguire added that Boyle was not involved in any way with the compilation of the club's accounts. He was unaware of the exact nature of Boyle's relationship, if any, with the company's auditors.

The Slonepark loan, he said, was an old one which had been inherited by the current directors.

Gerry McDermott



© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

[pete]

I thought i heard Roddy say last night on eL weekly that he was looking to bring a couple of forwards into the team. Was i dreaming?

:confused:

[NY Hoop]

This proves once and for all what a *&^%$ magoo is. "An error made........." You are the error magoo you muppet.

But what about the FAI? Why didnt they actually look at the accounts WHEN THEY WERE HANDED IN instead of now FFS?!!!

I sincerely doubt that we will get thrown out considering that it would result in fixture chaos and the FAI do not want anymore bad news. Sorry ringo! BTW were you THE fan in the stand at richmond?!!

Also if you carkies can bring more than 50 on friday we would appreciate it :D


KOH

[pineapple stu]

But what about the FAI? Why didnt they actually look at the accounts WHEN THEY WERE HANDED IN instead of now FFS?!!!
I assume they just checked to see if accounts were prepared. They wouldn't have that much of a qualification in accountancy and auditing (granted, I presume there was a qualified person on the committee?). That said, it does show up how flimsy the whole UEFA Licencing thing is - most clubs make an effort, but what's the point when you can get away with the likes of this? Now that the Companies Office and the ODCE are on Rovers' case, it's made the FAI aware that there's a problem. ODCE is not someone you want to get on the wrong side of either. But Rovers' auditors have a lot to answer for here as well...

[Éanna]

Also if you carkies can bring more than 50 on friday we would appreciate it :D
we usually do :p Seriously though, I don't think we'll have a great crowd up on friday because most people are waiting to go up on the monday for shels

[pete]

I think would be a disaster if eL clubs were to turn on one of their own & vite them out of the league.

Some seriously dodgy goings on with rovers accounts which is why i believe Directors should need a licence to rule eL clubs. Rovers Director boyos should be given 10 year bans from involvementw ith irish football.

[WeAreRovers]

Now that the Companies Office and the ODCE are on Rovers' case, it's made the FAI aware that there's a problem. ODCE is not someone you want to get on the wrong side of either. But Rovers' auditors have a lot to answer for here as well...

Who do you think approached the Companies Office and the ODCE in the first place? Here's a clue it was the people who are now running the club on a day-to-day basis and trying to secure the long-term future of the club.

We've known about these accounting and other irregularities for a long time. Someone else suggested that out former directors be banned from football for ten years. Far to leniant IMO. They should all be banned for life from anything to do with Irish football but going on what happened to Louis Kilcoyne I won't be holding my breath.

KOH

[ThatGuy]

Finn Harps are going to get relegated because they are living within their means. Shamrock Rovers are going to stay up because they are living far beyond their means.

The FAI must take action.

[Macy]

Shamrock Rovers are going to stay up because they are living far beyond their means.

The FAI must take action.
What against all clubs spending more than they can afford? Bohs are building up a nice debt that will only be serviced by selling Dalyer....

[ThatGuy]

What against all clubs spending more than they can afford? Bohs are building up a nice debt that will only be serviced by selling Dalyer....

Macy sure has a good grasp of Shamrock Rovers' situation :rolleyes:

[Macy]

Macy sure has a good grasp of Shamrock Rovers' situation :rolleyes:
I'm just making the point that you can't criticise only one club for living beyond their means. Virtually every club in the premier could do with examinership to clear their debts. Rovers aren't the only ones costing Harps their place due to spending more than they can really afford - pretty much every club is (including us, who I'd be concerned about too, but then we got a new major sponsor in). Too simplistic to just blame Rovers for costing Harps their place on that basis.

[ThatGuy]

I'm just making the point that if you can't criticise only one club for living beyond their means. Virtually every club in the premier could do with examinership to clear their debts. Rovers aren't the only ones costing Harps their place due to spending more than they can really afford - pretty much every club is (including us, who I'd be concerned about too, but then we got a new major sponsor in).
It is a completely different situation.

It is up to Bohemians members to decide how much the club spends. The club does spend too much and if it continues to do so it will be in big trouble. But it will be able to rectify the situation itself, and over €300,000 of the budget is now in Tolka Park. Bohemians has the capacity to pay off any of its debts, even it it means cashing in on its primary asset, which we hope will never happen.It is an entirely different scenario to Shamrock Rovers'.

If Bohemians start failing to pay bills, failing to pay players, but continuing to sign players etc then we would be in the same boat.-

[drummerboy]

Even $helbourne have debts.

[Macy]

It is a completely different situation.
Different situation, same result for Harps who are being careful with their money. Plenty of arguments to be made against Rovers and their lack of management, however, Finn Harps would be in trouble because of living within their means even if CHF had stayed up at Rovers expense last season.

[ThatGuy]

Even $helbourne have debts.
Every business in the world has "debts". As for saying Shelbourne have debts, talk about stating the obvious. If there is ever any investigation into how they run their finances then I think that releagtion will be the least of their worries.

[Mr_T]

Ok, speaking as a Harps fan, hopefully Rovers are finally having to cut their cloth to suit their means. It is very frustrating, even while in Div 1 due to our own financial cutbacks to watch Rovers having no money, not being able to honour existing contracts and still making big signings - e.g. Payne, Gavin.

However, can some of the Rovers guys please explain why Roddy Collins was on eL Weekly claiming that he'd had a great ould chat with the examiner and would soon be looking to add a new striker to the squad!!!!!

BTW, Harps may be being careful with their money, but will be looking to sign players in teh transfer window, and are not relegated just yet. :eek: :eek:

[harpskid]

Wondered that myself T, surely to Christ he's not going to start splashing more cash is he... :eek:

And we are far from relegated. NO SURRENDER

[drummerboy]

Every business in the world has "debts". As for saying Shelbourne have debts, talk about stating the obvious. If there is ever any investigation into how they run their finances then I think that releagtion will be the least of their worries.


What I’m talking about is debts which are outstanding for more than a year. Most companies don't do business like that. Debts occurred for renting facilities and not bothering to pay the landlord.

[Krstic]

And we are far from relegated. NO SURRENDER


:D :D Ha Ha Ha Ha, is this the comedy thread???

[Ringo]

Finn Harps are going to get relegated because they are living within their means. Shamrock Rovers are going to stay up because they are living far beyond their means.

The FAI must take action.

Sounds familiar :rolleyes: , no one’s going to do anything about it. :mad:

[WeAreRovers]

However, can some of the Rovers guys please explain why Roddy Collins was on eL Weekly claiming that he'd had a great ould chat with the examiner and would soon be looking to add a new striker to the squad!!!!!



Eh, 'cos he's a total spoofer. I thought everyone knew that. :confused:

BTW If we are relegated by the FAI for the financial irregularites of the previous regime we'll take it on the chin. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

KOH

[kevincronin2000]

I know shamrock rovers fans have got some bad publicity in the past, but the way they are supporting the club now i find amazing. Most supporters would have just shouted there discontent and did fcuk all, but rovers supporters are actually getting up off there @ss and doing something about it.

I do think Rovers should be peanilised some how maybe relegated, but don't punnish all the good supporters they have by killing the club.

I for one will make the game friday night, but maybe at the final whistle when we have the three points, i might force myself into a round of aplause for the genuine shamrock rovers supporters.

[LFC in Exile]

The FA in England have a rule that clubs get docked 10 points for going into examinership. The same here would be a good idea. This goes back to Leicester's ploy of going into examinership to get the creditors off their backs and then getting promoted, while clubs who ran a good ship suffered on the pitch. :ball:

[Mr_T]

Eh, 'cos he's a total spoofer. I thought everyone knew that. :confused:

BTW If we are relegated by the FAI for the financial irregularites of the previous regime we'll take it on the chin. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

KOH

Fair enough, if thats all it is. And as for getting relegated for financial irregularities, thats seperate issue. What amazed me was that while in examinership, facing near extinction due to huge debts, your manager rather than talking about necessary trimming of the wage bill to the minimum to aid financial recovery is talking about signing new players.

The people bankrolling the club in the interim may need to put him straight on a few things surely!!!!

[drummerboy]

Wouldn't it be prudent for Rovers to move to Morton Stadium now, which would be a lot cheaper to rent than Dalymount. I'm sure Bohemians wouldn't stand in their way, considering the fix Rovers are in. I know Roddy wouldn't like the idea but the pitch is a lot better up there now.

[Slash/ED]

I think the fans would prefer Morton anyway, so their little amount of money isn't going to their rivals.

[Éanna]

I know shamrock rovers fans have got some bad publicity in the past, but the way they are supporting the club now i find amazing. Most supporters would have just shouted there discontent and did fcuk all, but rovers supporters are actually getting up off there @ss and doing something about it.

I do think Rovers should be peanilised some how maybe relegated, but don't punnish all the good supporters they have by killing the club.

I for one will make the game friday night, but maybe at the final whistle when we have the three points, i might force myself into a round of aplause for the genuine shamrock rovers supporters.
agreed kevin. the rovers fans have been amazing.

[Mr A]

Today's article in the Indo:


FAI must take hardline action

Wednesday April 27th 2005


THESE are anxious times for Shamrock Rovers and that is not talking about the examinership process that the club is currently under, but another matter which could have huge repercussions for the club.

Examiner Neil Hughes, in tandem with Shamrock Rovers 400 Club, has made a tremendous impact in the first 14 days of the examinership and proved to the High Court that the club is capable of being saved.

There are seven potential investors waiting in the wings with the possibility of more coming on board between now and the May 4 closing date for expressions of interest. In addition there has also been tremendous interest in the advertisement for a commercial manager.

South Dublin County Council is confident that it will soon repossess the leases for the Tallaght site from Mulden International and Slonepark which will enable it to complete a fast-track planning permission within three months and get the builders back on site.

Fingal County Council has reacted positively to approaches about Rovers using Morton Stadium next season thus giving the club a ground of its own until Tallaght is ready.

So, the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter and brighter for Rovers and its viability as a football club. Every soccer fan in Ireland will rejoice at that because the eircom League does need a successful Hoops side.

However, it does not need any club that abuses the club licensing system which was set up to bring regulation to a cowboy industry. If it is proved that Shamrock Rovers rode a coach and four horses through the licensing system then they have no right to expect any leniency from the FAI's First Instance Committee which is made up of seven independent individuals with no connection to any of the 22 eircom League clubs.

Those within Rovers who argue that those who eventually take over the club should not be penalised for the sins of the previous owners are offering an emotional argument that ignores the seriousness of this particular misdemeanour.

UEFA set up the club licensing system to ensure that the financial affairs of clubs were conducted properly and if it is proven that Rovers supplied the wrong information when they submitted their audited accounts then European football's governing body is likely to take a very dim view if the FAI overlook such a serious breach of the financial criteria.

Rovers submitted audited accounts for 2003 and 2004 when they submitted their licence application even though they only had to supply the 2004 accounts. As they were not required at that time, the 2003 accounts were filed away and only the 2004 accounts were assessed.

It was only when accounts prepared by an independent auditor to support the High Court petition to go into examinership were unveiled that the FAI realised there was a serious discrepancy and this was subsequently borne out when Hughes met with the licensing department.

Last Friday, the FAI wrote to Shamrock Rovers giving them nine questions to answer regarding the financial documentation they supplied to support their application for a Premier Division licence last January. Rovers chairman Tony Maguire said on Monday that he was confident they would be able to provide adequate answers to the FAI's licensing department's queries and suggested that the only sanction which should apply should be a "slap on the wrists."

By last night no answers had been forthcoming but there appears to be no way Rovers can duck this extremely serious issue.

Look at a club like Finn Harps which has turned in a surplus for the past four seasons, significantly reduced its debt and is currently preparing to build a new stadium in Stranorlar.

They have done things by the book, cut their cloth to measure, and are currently languishing at the bottom of the eircom League Premier Division with one point after six games.

If Rovers are found guilty of supplying incorrect information with their licensing application, are the FAI going to say there is one law for Dublin clubs and another for those in the sticks?

A guilty verdict must result in a sanction, be it a points deduction or automatic relegation to the First Division at the end of the season.

That won't harm the long-term viability of this once-great club, in fact it may even help the new investors find their feet, but it will send out a loud and clear message that licensing must be taken seriously by all clubs.

Gerry McDermott
The Bootroom

[Ringo]

PFAI want probe into Kelly wage hitch

Thursday April 28th 2005


THE PFAI has asked the Eircom League to investigate Shamrock Rovers' decision to stop paying one of their players because he is injured.

Striker Liam Kelly, who has undergone two groin operations, was told in January by his doctor that he needs six months rest to clear up his troublesome pubic bone injury before he can resume playing.

Rovers' response was to stop paying the player in January and he has only been fully paid three times over the past 17 weeks. One cheque, which he received for outstanding wages, before Rovers went into examinership, bounced.

Although the other Rovers players have been paid since the examinership process began, Kelly has not.

The matter was brought to the attention of Neil Hughes, the examiner appointed to run the club by the High Court, yesterday by the PFAI.

But the examiner told the players union that Kelly was not a priority because he couldn't play and is now considered to be a creditor of the club.

The Irish Independent understands that no medical evidence was sought before the examiner arrived at this decision.

PFAI Chief Executive Fran Gavin said he had asked the Eircom League to investigate because the examiner's decision sets a dangerous precedent. "What happens if another player gets injured this Friday against Cork or in a subsequent game? Will that affect him getting paid in the future?" he asked.

"Liam Kelly is not a creditor but an employee. He is under contract until the end of the season and, while we appreciate the difficulties the examiner is operating under, we have asked the League to investigate."

Legal sources indicated last night that the examiner would have to apply to the High Court if he wanted to remove Kelly from the payroll. Liam Kelly declined to comment last night while the examiner was unavailable for comment.

Manager Roddy Collins had earlier talked of his relief that the 400 Club had agreed to bankroll the payment of wages to players.

Collins admits that since the start of the season he's been on a permanent pub crawl as he toured Dublin hostelries trying to get players' cheques cashed.

As a player and a manager he has found himself in some sticky financial situations in the past but admits that what he has been through at Rovers is by far the worst.

"The only thing I can compare it to is when I employed fellows on a building site in the days when there was no money in the building trade.

"You would be due a cheque of six grand at two o'clock on a Friday to pay the lads with the banks shutting at three and the builder wouldn't turn up. You'd have to scramble round borrowing money to make up the wages which thankfully I always did," said Collins.

"The stress of being responsible for players' well-being and their financial situation is horrendous. It is the worst stress in the world."

With a massive crowd expected tomorrow night at Dalymount Park for the visit of Cork City, Rovers fans are rallying around the club in its hour of need and Collins is aware that he and his players also have to do their stuff on the pitch to keep the ball rolling.

Gerry McDermott



© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

[joeraki]

I find it a bit strange that the Kelly and FAI issues are both coming to light in the same time period. Seen as both would of been known in January.

Anyone best of luck to Rovers from an ex Oriel boot boy and not the type that collects the ball ;) They've been the most loyal fans in the league by far and are putting their money their mouths are. If all clubs fans where the same then lord only knows what achievements some clubs might have done by now

[Ringo]

Rovers chairman quits after debts row

Friday May 6th 2005


A CHAPTER in Shamrock Rovers' history came to an end yesterday when it was announced that chairman Tony Maguire had resigned after two and a half years at the helm of the club.

Maguire, along with fellow director, Paul Boyle, took the decision to resign following a meeting with the FAI Club Licensing Committee that had sought answers to a number of questions relating to Rovers' Club Licence application.

The FAI requested answers to a number of questions after discovering that the company which owns Rovers, Branvard Limited, had revealed in a High Court petition for Examinership that it had debts of over €2.3 million; over €600,000 more than previously revealed to the Club Licensing Department.

The Club Licensing Committee broke up their meeting on Wednesday night without agreement though a decision on whether the club should be punished or not is expected today as is an official statement from Maguire and Boyle.

The two directors' decision to resign will not affect the FAI's position nor will it affect the continued day-to-day running of the club by the Examinership steering group.

"The Examiner needs two directors in situ and Branvard still have two directors, John Breen and Tony Ennis," a source said.

Maguire was chairman since October 2002 during one of the most tumultuous times in Shamrock Rovers history.

During his tenure, there was no building work at the club's proposed new home in Tallaght as the club stumbled into greater and greater debt.

In the last two seasons, the club's players contemplated strike action after wages were not paid and, even this season, the club was struggling before going into Examinership.

Maguire has long been unpopular with Rovers' supporters after pledging to hold regular meetings with them upon his appointment, though only a handful of meetings were held while the supporters' representative on the Branvard board, Mark Lynch, resigned after a brief stint.

But also during Maguire's tenure, the 400 Club was launched, a supporters trust which has grown to such a size that it is now bankrolling the club and has begun a takeover bid.

It is understood that Maguire and Boyle decided to resign to allow prospective new investors a clean slate when they eventually do take over Shamrock Rovers, believing that a new full-time regime with no debts from the past, is the best way forward.

Along with the 400 Club, a number of other names have been mentioned as potential investors including Gretna chairman Brooks Mileson, former FAI CEO Fran Rooney and former Shamrock Rovers manager Liam Buckley.

However, one of those reported to be a potential investor, former Republic of Ireland striker John Aldridge has emphatically denied that he is interested in joining the club.

Reports yesterday suggested Aldridge was fronting a bid backed by Manchester City striker Robbie Fowler and Liverpool building tycoon Steve Morgan though Aldridge's agent Dave Lockwood refuted the claims.

"It's absolute garbage," he said. "It sounds like someone is trying to generate cheap publicity for Shamrock Rovers."

Meanwhile, FAI Chief Executive John Delaney hoped to meet members of the National League Supporters Association yesterday to discuss the cut in tickets available to eircom League supporters' clubs for international matches.

However, the meeting was cancelled after NLSA members were unable to attend because of work commitments.

Owen Cowzer



© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

[dfx-]

Hmmm...I've been perusing this thread in and out all morning and since it was before I joined here, so it was all new or perhaps just a new place for the same old same old to be talked about from some..

A thoroughly good read, if only to confirm the level of progress that nearly one year has seen and since Shels are in a spot of bother, how will they be in a year's time... The doomsday predictions for Rovers would've been enough to drag anyone into depression..:eek:

Rovers thrown out of the league, Rovers owe too much, how can they pay back 2.5m, how could the 400 club possibly run the club, "enjoy your next few games they'll be your last"..

Yep, it's been some year, alright:D

[dfx-]

*puts on scouser accent, perm and dodgy moustache*

Ok ok calm down, calm down....:eek:

My enjoyment of the thread had nothing to do with Shels or any other club and I'm not gloating - it's just this thread shows to me how far Rovers have come so far - that in comparison to some parts of this thread every little thing is progress. It was an interesting read for a morning since I hadn't read it before...as a Rovers fan reading a Rovers thread that I literally accidentally stumbled upon..

Sheesh...:eek:

[paudie]

*it's just this thread shows to me how far Rovers have come so far - that in comparison to some parts of this thread every little thing is progress. It was an interesting read for a morning since I hadn't read it before...as a Rovers fan reading a Rovers thread that I literally accidentally stumbled upon..



Ye've come so far because 95% of your debts were written off, legally I know, and ye were left with a clean slate.

Lot of work done by the 400 club of course.

Also a lot of work done by Finn Harps, who have made a profit for the last 5 years and are building a new stadium and have never been in examinership.

And Dundalk who installed an all weather pitch last year and did a lot of work to the ground. Not without difficulty but without any major debt write off as far as I know. in fact I think they sold their training pitch to finace some of the work.

Rovers fans are so anxious to start history with the 400 club takeover I think the FAI honours list should be changed to show
Shamrock Rovers (1899-2005) 15 league 24 cups
Shamrock Rovers (2005- ) 0 leagues 0 cups

Rant over:D

[pete]

I think Rovers level of debt was overstated as maybe 50% was owed to Directors who spent the money they "loaned" the club. IMO Directors like that are not entitled to a cent.

[WeAreRovers]

IMO Directors like that are not entitled to a cent.

And they didn't get a cent.

KOH