Limerick Desmond League 2018/19

[Red_Devil]

Seriously, the refs must cop themselves on?? I have been reading posts regarding this issue for weeks now, and people are still missing the most important point. A referee, a person was assaulted, punched and spat on and you expect the referees to send their members back out again when the proper punishment hasn't been sanctioned by the league for the incident, all because its Abbeyfeale. The leagues interpretation of the referees report was that both the spit and punch were carried out by the same person, and so the player got a year for each, a total of 2 yrs suspension. From what I hear the refs clarified that there were 2 separate individuals involved. This was put back to Abbey who insist that they had a players meeting and no one else was involved. So the league have taken the clubs word over that of the ref. If this was another club they would be told to hand over the other culprit or else face suspension from the league. Abbey are holding the league to ransom to protect an individual capable of doing this, and yet we still blame the referees??


And how do you explain the fact that an individual has admitted to the league that he was responsible for both offences and he has been rightly punished for them

Well for one if the Ref knows for a fact that more than one person attacked him. He is right to dig his heels in as then he knows this person is taking the hit for another. If he clearly knows he was hit by someone and spit on by another he knows this person is lying.
Also if the reports are true that this individual denied involvement to the guards then it shows that some sort of cover up is going on.

[Gazza29]

Well for one if the Ref knows for a fact that more than one person attacked him. He is right to dig his heels in as then he knows this person is taking the hit for another. If he clearly knows he was hit by someone and spit on by another he knows this person is lying.
Also if the reports are true that this individual denied involvement to the guards then it shows that some sort of cover up is going on.

But shur how does he know “for a fact”. He never saw him

[dutchie]

I heard the other day that abbey are protecting the other person as he is a player with there junior team, imo abbey should be banned and rest of the lge continue.

[Red_Devil]

But shur how does he know “for a fact”. He never saw him

Ya he may not have seen his face/ exact details but he may know it came from a different person.

[Cruyff]

Abbeyfeale games off this weekend

[Shearer]

Newcastle West Town's last game - April 21.
Kildimo United's last game - April 21.
Abbeyfeale United A's last game - March 3.
Abbeyfeale United B's last game - February 17.
Abbeyfeale United Youths' last game - March 19.

It's going to be a long time before Kildimo, who are pretty much relegated, play their next league game and they'll be expected to keep players interested and training for nothing fixtures and will be slapped on the wrist for not fulfilling the fixture if it comes to it.
Newcastle West Town are suffering too but not as bad, they're just getting rode by the fact that they're being fixtured against Abbeyfeale every single week with no backup fixture for when it falls through.

I'm fully convinced that the league will not be finished at all, at all.

[fanaticfan]

Just deduct Abbeyfeale points in both junior teams and youths or give the 3 points to the teams they have left to play and get on with the rest of the league. This situation has ruined this years league for everyone

[sportsfanatic]

Just deduct Abbeyfeale points in both junior teams and youths or give the 3 points to the teams they have left to play and get on with the rest of the league. This situation has ruined this years league for everyone

That won’t solve it either. The refs won’t officiate Abbey game because this “second person” hasn’t been given up meaning he could be still playing with their youths or juniors! By deducting Abbey points it doesn’t give the refs what they want.

Was talking to a lad at work who was at the meeting Wednesday night and it was the league telling all clubs the story from start to finish and where we are now.
Incident happened, Abbey were punished for what was down on the card. There is a communication issue where the league interpret that there is no mention of two players on the card and refs believe there is (card was read out on Wednesday night and there’s is no clear mention of 2 players - from what I’m told). The fai , Munster council and ref association have all met with the league and the refs and they (including the refs association) believe that the issue has been dealt with and all that can be is done and the refs should go back reffing as normal. The refs are still not happy because they feel this second person is still not dealt with and can continue playing on.

It’s an absolute nightmare situation for everyone. The 3 officials cannot be done as there is a rule or something stating on Desmond cup semi finals and finals have 3 officials - the league said it leaves them open to objections from other teams if three officials are used for some games and not others and also the money issue I’m sure if a big factor on that one too.

EGM possibly be called for next week and the lad I work with said the league were happy if the clubs voted to go on strike themselves. I would be of the same opinion of Shearer that the league won’t be finished this season. I’m sure most clubs just want the season to finish but I do feel very sorry for clubs who are in title contention and promotions.

[Soreloser]

Just wondering why the refs are feeling so strongly about all this, Could it be that they are right, there has been several assaults on refs down through the years and they always got on with it once the issue had been dealt with by the league so has anyone wondered whats different here,Just maybe its the club that are the issue, hearing rumours that the fella that was suspended by the league after abbey gave his name has now said he only ever called the ref a "F******* C***" but never Punched or Spat at him. Also hearing on the grapevine that there may be legal action coming down the tracks, If thats true then club and the league committee which includes a member from the same club might be made to look anything but clean in all this. Also heard that at the meeting one club suggested letting the refs ref their games next sunday and then refuse to pay them when it was over, if thats true it just goes to show how childish the people are that are sent as delegates to these meetings.
Were the clubs told the whole truth at the meeting or a version made to make the refs look bad.

[southern kid]

this is gone awful messy..from talking to club delegates what was v clear is support for referees actions is almost non existant.. as iv always said no referee/official shud never be assaulted in sport..I do not believe the club are hiding a second player as why would they, I just believe they cannot get name if there is one or not, no one really knows..as for legal side of it, if young lad changed statement I'm sure that would be on legal advice from a solicitor as we know the way they work..I do not agree about refs not getting paid after reffing a game, we got to respect the job they do which is tough at time..apparently some want to go back reffing so maybe secret ballot vote at there meeting would be best.. it's clear refs have power but it's time to move on and respect all players and managers supporters etc.. if it's gone legal let da guards deal with it and punish through courts if evidence is there to do it and if 2nd name is found I would urge league to 're visit it and deal with it appropriately.. I feel sorry for clubs involved in possibly winning trophies and some for fidmrst uptime possibly.. just all move on and let legal side do der job.. at end of day league committee are amateur as is Abbey committee..

[Ballistinianlad]

Referees are meeting tonight. Not sure if they are balloting to strike or what’s the craic.
One thing is for sure they ain’t gonna back down. I have to sadly agree with the consensus that the league will not finish this season.
If that happens could anyone see a motion of no confidence being submitted against the league committee? Or is this all down to the refs playing hardball

[last man back]

Refs definitely sticking to there guns on this one, even talks of a few of them just doing underage games going forward.
As said above league unlikely to finish this season! Disaster for clubs in running for promotion or cups, can you imagine how Broadford team feel after there result last Friday. If this isn’t sorted ( and I can’t see how) it leaves a big question mark over next season aswell.

[runinglate]

I don't think we could see a vote of no confidence, I don't know what else the league can do in relation to this.
How this has not made it into the papers has me baffled it is the only way that the FAI will ensure a decision is met.
With the last two games having to be played together that will cause the grief and we are nearing that stage now.

[Soreloser]

Refs definitely sticking to there guns on this one, even talks of a few of them just doing underage games going forward.
As said above league unlikely to finish this season! Disaster for clubs in running for promotion or cups, can you imagine how Broadford team feel after there result last Friday. If this isn’t sorted ( and I can’t see how) it leaves a big question mark over next season aswell.

Allegedly it was the Broadford delegate that proposed letting the refs do their games on Sunday and then not paying them at the end, Not the brightest star in the sky if thats true

[Gazza29]

Referees are meeting tonight. Not sure if they are balloting to strike or what’s the craic.
One thing is for sure they ain’t gonna back down. I have to sadly agree with the consensus that the league will not finish this season.
If that happens could anyone see a motion of no confidence being submitted against the league committee? Or is this all down to the refs playing hardball
A motion of no confidence, would u cop yourself on, the FAI and the referees association have both told them to go back. The refs are 100% wrong, no debate

[DesmondLad]

No they haven't, the referee society (ISRS) have backed their members actions. The way I see it, Abbey should do the decent thing and withdraw from the league at a youths level, for this season and the next if the second culprit isn't handed over. Why would a ref lie about such a thing unless he was 100 per cent sure there were two involved. Again as I have said in the past the League took the clubs word over the refs. How can they continue to ref games in the future with the potential of this happening again and the league not believing what they are told. I know I wouldn't if it was me. We all have heard rumours of who this second fella is, but yet Abbey are in the dark??

[Gazza29]

No they haven't, the referee society (ISRS) have backed their members actions. The way I see it, Abbey should do the decent thing and withdraw from the league at a youths level, for this season and the next if the second culprit isn't handed over. Why would a ref lie about such a thing unless he was 100 per cent sure there were two involved. Again as I have said in the past the League took the clubs word over the refs. How can they continue to ref games in the future with the potential of this happening again and the league not believing what they are told. I know I wouldn't if it was me. We all have heard rumours of who this second fella is, but yet Abbey are in the dark??
Finally, we have a break through, DesmondLad knows who the mystery guy is. I presume you are on the way to Desmond League HQ to give up the name. At last we are going to get going again and finish the season and it’s all thanks to this guy

[Griffo]

I dont know what clubs refusing to play matches is going to achieve bar force the refs to dig in further and ruin this season and potentially next. The committee are basically saying that they will ruin the season for everyone, in a bid to stick by Abbey. Its comical when the same committee have a senior member who is involved with Abbey. Common sense, protect the majority who are totally innocent, stand down Abbey for the remainder of the season and resolve this in the off season. Probably harsh on Abbey but at least we have a league to go back to next season. I am actually shocked Abbey haven't suggested this in a bid to salvage the entire league.

[DesmondLad]

No need for the sarcasm Gazza! Since you seem to know all the ins and outs of this, Im sure you have heard rumours too like us all. All I want to know as does everyone, is why are Abbey willing to jeopardise the league season finishing for a player.

[westernflow]

I'll say it again, if it was a small club I can guarantee they would be picking up the pieces and looking to next season. This is another PR disaster for the league and I can see the league losing alot of its playing membership in the next few months. I can't see the games in any division being concluded, due to the rule of the final 2 games to be played together, bar div 1. any word on Friday eves games, were they played?

[Ballistinianlad]

Heard an u16 manager got a text to say no more fixtures for the time being. Waiting to hear if this is an all out “strike”

[twotouch]

Full on strike from the Refs no more games going ahead until it’s either resolved or the league is finished.

[Foxynob44]

Abbey need to be kicked out of the league its as simple as that either that or else they have linesmen at their matches & all other clubs sign off on it to say they all agree (thus allowing no future objections) & they pay for the linemen..one clubs actions through its failure to control their players are effecting a vast number of other clubs, if this isn't sorted there won't be a Desmond league left in the not too distance future. The league sticking by Abbey in all of this is shocking & embarrassing. A referee was assaulted. How it hasn't made the Local & national media is mind boggling.

[Griffo]

League and refs not bugging here, only solution is for Abbey do the sensible thing and walk away or else remove them. Although finishing their season, they put the greater good of every other club above this dispute. Otherwise this could be the ruination of the league for years to come.

[Ballistinianlad]

1pm and still no official word about whether tomorrow fixtures go ahead or not.

[Desmond18]

1pm and still no official word about whether tomorrow fixtures go ahead or not.

Sure it’s the Desmond league... would expect nothing else 😡😡 players always suffer the most

[the 12 th man]

Lads,it's not a free for all here so watch what you post.

[Red_Devil]

A motion of no confidence, would u cop yourself on, the FAI and the referees association have both told them to go back. The refs are 100% wrong, no debate

Refs 100% wrong? Bit of a bold statement. Do you know as a matter of fact there was only one individual involved?

[Ballistinianlad]

I also find it a bit unfair to say refs are 100% wrong. As far as they are concerned one of their members was attacked and spat on by two players. One player was punished (who says it wasn’t him since) and the other has not been identified. From their point of view a player who spat on a referee is still playing. From that perspective they are right.
Personally I don’t see why the entire league needs to suffer because of one team. If they stood down abbey for the rest of the season it would be a better alternative. It may even suddenly identify this second player. (If there is one ;)

[fanaticfan]

All matches off. Refs on strike

[Griffo]

Couldn’t agree more

[GrassRoots]

Hi all, a colleague of mine told me about this site. I've been reading the thread with the last week. I'm a retired player and would like to express a few views that I have.
Firstly at the start of the thread people were complaining about the quality of the league? How is this issue going to be solved when you have this ongoing issue with refs/league/Abbeyfeale. Interest is going to deteriate dramatically.
Secondly, I don't agree with people saying dump all Abbeyfeale teams out. Punish the team in question which I gather was the youths team?
Does the player in question play with the B's or A's? I think that is vital. If not, leave them at it. I presume an A team contending for trophies trains twice a week and match the weekend. From August to May that'd accumulate 160 hours MINIMUM. I've been involved in trophy winning teams if someone suggested that my team were to be 'thrown out' for something we didn't do I would be fuming as all this dedication and hard work was all for nothing.
Thirdly and finally, maybe the refs are right maybe their wrong, is the referee in question alright? If so everybody should just get up and forget about this issue and enjoy those wonderful evenings in clonreask.

[Langerdan007]

Lads,it's not a free for all here so watch what you post.

True - didn't see much out of the way in the comments that appear to be removed now

By the sounds of DesmondLad there's a name and conspiracy floating around - either way, whoever's version is the right one - the current situation is farcical
if there is no games on this week it'll be into June (if at all before leagues finish) - you've lads going on holidays, interest waning with no games, young lads with exams, fellas going away supping cider on a sunny championship sunday
there'll be a raft of walkovers / agreed results and the league plunges further into mayhem

Is there any further meetings called for this week?

[Soreloser]

Just wondering if the League now offered to put linesmen on abbey games would it help get the season finished. Somebody said that that would set a precedent but it wouldn't because I seem to remember back years ago there were linesmen on a premier game between Shanagolden and Rathkeale when they were going for the Premier league.
At least that way there would be some games played which is 100% better than the current situation where no games will get played

[Gazza29]

Just wondering if the League now offered to put linesmen on abbey games would it help get the season finished. Somebody said that that would set a precedent but it wouldn't because I seem to remember back years ago there were linesmen on a premier game between Shanagolden and Rathkeale when they were going for the Premier league.
At least that way there would be some games played which is 100% better than the current situation where no games will get played

Id definitely agree with that, people need to come together now and sort this mess out

[Shearer]

They get linesmen for the big league games in town the whole time.

[Kennycon]

There should be linesmen at all games

[Round Tower]

There should be linesmen at all games

Here in the ML in the top divison, the super leage their is always 3 officials for the 5 games each week.The idea of having 3 offiicials for Abbey games would be a good one and if the cost for the clubs involved was high then the league could pay the 2 extra officiaals

[runinglate]

Any update from the league is there meetings due to take place this week?
Does anybody see them changing there tune and putting the pressure back on abbey.
As someone said above how are national media not on this, even local media this is an actual story that needs to come out for it to be sorted, compared to some of the drivel they usually have.

[westernflow]

There is barely enough refs to go around. The idea that there should he enough refs for 3 at a game is a pipe dream.

[Soreloser]

Look at the league website,
2 games down for last Friday night,12 games originally fixed down for yesterday, 6 at 11.30 & 6 at 2.30. No ref down for 2 games, Only 2 games down for next Friday night. Surely then there is enough refs to have 3 on abbey games.

[Shearer]

As someone said above how are national media not on this, even local media this is an actual story that needs to come out for it to be sorted, compared to some of the drivel they usually have.
The league is covered in local media by a committee member so it won't be mentioned. Its almost like North Korea.

[DesmondLad]

I agree with some of what you have said, but your last statement of saying if the ref is alright we should all forget about the issue and get on with it. If this goes unpunished what's to stop it happening again?Clubs need to realise their are consequences for their actions. The proposal of three refs on all Abbey games was put to the league 7 weeks ago by the referees, but they point blank refused. So I don't think this proposal will be a solution now, since they resoundly disregarded their proposal. We now as clubs need to take control. The league Committee are our representatives, elected by us. They are supposed to act in the best interests of ALL clubs not just one. We need to tell them what we want. A fair proposal would be for the league to remove the youth team for a period of 12 months. Abbey claim that they have met with the youths team several times over the past few weeks and questioned them over this assault. Nothing has come of this, of course no one will come forward they are young kids, they will not hand over their team mate. If a second player was produced, they probably would get a 12 month ban. So shouldnt the team who clearly know who assaulted the ref be punished as a whole as they are are unwillingly to 'tell on a fellow teammate'. If the second culprit comes forward and admits guilt then the other players' ban would be rescinded and would be free to play football. Is this not a fair compromise? That way Abbey A and B could return to league and All clubs will get to finish their season.

[Soreloser]

I agree with some of what you have said, but your last statement of saying if the ref is alright we should all forget about the issue and get on with it. If this goes unpunished what's to stop it happening again?Clubs need to realise their are consequences for their actions. The proposal of three refs on all Abbey games was put to the league 7 weeks ago by the referees, but they point blank refused. So I don't think this proposal will be a solution now, since they resoundly disregarded their proposal. We now as clubs need to take control. The league Committee are our representatives, elected by us. They are supposed to act in the best interests of ALL clubs not just one. We need to tell them what we want. A fair proposal would be for the league to remove the youth team for a period of 12 months. Abbey claim that they have met with the youths team several times over the past few weeks and questioned them over this assault. Nothing has come of this, of course no one will come forward they are young kids, they will not hand over their team mate. If a second player was produced, they probably would get a 12 month ban. So shouldnt the team who clearly know who assaulted the ref be punished as a whole as they are are unwillingly to 'tell on a fellow teammate'. If the second culprit comes forward and admits guilt then the other players' ban would be rescinded and would be free to play football. Is this not a fair compromise? That way Abbey A and B could return to league and All clubs will get to finish their season.
I reckon that all members of the youths team probably cannot be suspended as there is nothing to suspend them for, even if abbey withdraw the youths team they can still play with the As or Bs and the refs would not agree to go back if there was a chance of that happening unless they get linesmen.

[Ballistinianlad]

Abbey offered to withdraw youths team. They have one game left I believe.
Refs not happy as player is not punished by that. I can see why they don’t agree to that in fairness.
As said above. We are now entering the part of the year where fellas go on holidays etc. To expect team. Especially like us who have nothing at all to play for to remain interested and be able to field a team in the middle of June is crazy.
I don’t see this being resolved this season or next season at this stage

[DesmondLad]

I reckon that all members of the youths team probably cannot be suspended as there is nothing to suspend them for, even if abbey withdraw the youths team they can still play with the As or Bs and the refs would not agree to go back if there was a chance of that happening unless they get linesmen.

Why not? They are all complicit, they all know who was involved but they will not tell. If they get a ban, this ban would see them ineligible from playing any type of junior soccer I.e. With Abbey A or B. Arent the Youths not part of the junior league??

[Langerdan007]

Why not? They are all complicit, they all know who was involved but they will not tell. If they get a ban, this ban would see them ineligible from playing any type of junior soccer I.e. With Abbey A or B. Arent the Youths not part of the junior league??

its Schrodingers Cat - how do you ban somebody for knowing something if they dont admit they know?
I understand your point - punishing the team achieves nothing, their league is over and the players are free to move to another youths team or play at junior level
Banning all of them at the very least punishes any perpetrators but i dont think it would stand up, there should have to be at least an offence for a player to be banned

[snafu]

Just throw Abbeyfeale out.
All age groups and deny entry next year until the 2nd person owns up.
Let them join the Kerry league if they want. They'd be no loss to the Desmond league.
Disappointing behaviour from a once reputable club.

[DesmondLad]

its Schrodingers Cat - how do you ban somebody for knowing something if they dont admit they know?
I understand your point - punishing the team achieves nothing, their league is over and the players are free to move to another youths team or play at junior level
Banning all of them at the very least punishes any perpetrators but i dont think it would stand up, there should have to be at least an offence for a player to be banned

Well that brings us back to the referee who claims there were 2 players involved in the incident. So the real question becomes Do we believe the ref who has told us there were two, or do we believe the club who say there was one? The defense of youths saying they know nothing is a joke. At their first meeting with their own club officials they were asked if anything was seen or if anyone knew anything. None of them came forward with any information. This is what the league told clubs at their information night as they described the sequence of Abbeys own investigation. Then A few days later this player 1 owns up to the two offences. So while they were all at the match and surrounded the ref at the end of the game, they didn't see player 1 do anything when they were originally asked at the first meeting. This brings me back to my original point of not telling on a team mate. Are we expected to believe this, that nobody saw anything? How can the league?

[Red_Devil]

Well that brings us back to the referee who claims there were 2 players involved in the incident. So the real question becomes Do we believe the ref who has told us there were two, or do we believe the club who say there was one? The defense of youths saying they know nothing is a joke. At their first meeting with their own club officials they were asked if anything was seen or if anyone knew anything. None of them came forward with any information. This is what the league told clubs at their information night as they described the sequence of Abbeys own investigation. Then A few days later this player 1 owns up to the two offences. So while they were all at the match and surrounded the ref at the end of the game, they didn't see player 1 do anything when they were originally asked at the first meeting. This brings me back to my original point of not telling on a team mate. Are we expected to believe this, that nobody saw anything? How can the league?
Well said. If they initially claimed they didn’t see anything then suddenly this 1 player comes forward how is it difficult to believe they are hiding a second player.
Abbeyfeale are probably happy to stay quiet and hope other teams get frustrated with the current situation so opinion swings against the refs. Other clubs will then get annoyed at the refs strike, forgetting the bigger issue of a ref being abused.