World Cup Tournament 2018

[Stuttgart88]

England: good side now or flat track bully with good set pieces?

[OwlsFan]

England: good side now or flat track bully with good set pieces?

It was a great result but the performance ? Not sure. First goal an unmarked centre-half for a corner. A couple of soft penalties. A deflected goal. Can't remember the other two. I thought Loftus Cheek was poor. But you can only beat what's put in front of you. Belgium game won't be wholly relevant either but they'll really get carried away if they win that. Glad England are still in it though. Adds to the interest.

My Swedish friend tells me that the bearded Swede who gave away the free kick is being vilified in some quarters in Sweden (he was a sub I think). I did feel for the Swedish fans until another friend of mine told me to forget that as they has their day in the Aviva. True but you have to empathise, particularly with the gorgeous blondes, one of whom was even crying when they were in the lead. Delighted also that Germany are still in the tournament. I prefer to see most of the better teams progress rather than the defensive ones.

As regards VAR, strange that the ref didn't refer the early penalty call for Sweden to VAR. One has the slight suspicion that if it was the other way round, there might have been a review.

Poland very disappointing. Rely too much on a tired looking Lewandowski ?

[Real ale Madrid]

That late South Korea goal could be crucial.


Son Heung-Min playing the John Aldridge role , albeit Mexico still qualified anyway in 94.

[Stuttgart88]

It was a great result but the performance ? Not sure. First goal an unmarked centre-half for a corner. A couple of soft penalties. A deflected goal. Can't remember the other two. I thought Loftus Cheek was poor. But you can only beat what's put in front of you. Belgium game won't be wholly relevant either but they'll really get carried away if they win that. Glad England are still in it though. Adds to the interest.

My Swedish friend tells me that the bearded Swede who gave away the free kick is being vilified in some quarters in Sweden (he was a sub I think). I did feel for the Swedish fans until another friend of mine told me to forget that as they has their day in the Aviva. True but you have to empathise, particularly with the gorgeous blondes, one of whom was even crying when they were in the lead. Delighted also that Germany are still in the tournament. I prefer to see most of the better teams progress rather than the defensive ones.

As regards VAR, strange that the ref didn't refer the early penalty call for Sweden to VAR. One has the slight suspicion that if it was the other way round, there might have been a review.

Poland very disappointing. Rely too much on a tired looking Lewandowski ?

I read in the Guardian that Poland ditched the 4 at the back that served them well in qualifying. I couldn't believe how poor they were but as their coach said, maybe it was just because they were beaten by a much better side. I really liked the look of Colombia.


Apparently the Swedish guy had some anti-Islamic abuse thrown at him on social media alright, and the squad reacted with a strong message back.

[osarusan]

Thought Colombia looked super last night, solid at the back and really threatening going forward. Japan lucky to get the great start they did against them. They made Poland look so limited (which maybe they are).

That group should be a fascinating final day also.

I'd fancy Colombia to beat Senegal and finish on 6, with Senegal staying on 4. So while a point for Japan sees them qualify, will they go for a win?

[OwlsFan]

Son Heung-Min playing the John Aldridge role , albeit Mexico still qualified anyway in 94.

One of the best Irish goals in the Charlton era as well.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Thought both sides looked very nervy in the first ten or so minutes last night, but then the Columbians settled and never looked back. Very impressive in the second half. Poland looked lethargic all night, and got increasingly wasteful as the night went on. Lewandowski very disappointing, some star players seem to be able to do a full club season and play OK in the WC - like Ronaldo, this time - but Lewandowski, like Messi, looks like he wants to be on a beach somewhere.

[pineapple stu]

It was a great result but the performance ? Not sure. First goal an unmarked centre-half for a corner. A couple of soft penalties. A deflected goal. Can't remember the other two.
Bit harsh. Nothing soft about either penalty; both blatant. The referee explicitly warned the Panama defence at the corner which led to the second penalty, and two of them wrestled anyway.

The goals you're missing are a really innovative and well-worked set piece, and Lingard's 20 yarder.

Yes, Panama were rubbish, but England were 6-0 up by the time Belgium had their first against them. It was a decent performance.

And the caveat of course is that the World Cup isn't won against Panama

[NeverFeltBetter]

Group A's final matches seem to just be a case of seeing if Uruguay have woken up enough to get first over a better than expected Russia, it's Group B that's more interesting today. You'd back Spain to beat Morocco, but do Iran have any chance of surprising Portugal? They'll have to put it up to them and play football from the off, as they did in parts of the Spanish game, but I think they may be capable of a shock, if they can keep Ronaldo quiet.

As for the other game, it says something about Egypt that the run-up to their last match has been dominated by talk of Salah quitting.

[OwlsFan]

Bit harsh. Nothing soft about either penalty; both blatant. The referee explicitly warned the Panama defence at the corner which led to the second penalty, and two of them wrestled anyway.

The goals you're missing are a really innovative and well-worked set piece, and Lingard's 20 yarder.

Yes, Panama were rubbish, but England were 6-0 up by the time Belgium had their first against them. It was a decent performance.

And the caveat of course is that the World Cup isn't won against Panama

What I meant by soft was they were noting sort of penalties - there wasn't a forward bearing down on goal i.e. they were just sort of nothing fouls a bit like a ball to hand penalty. They didn't have to play well to be 2 up: that's what I mean by performance as opposed to the result. Anyway, we shall see. Certainly helps their confidence after the Iceland debacle.


Thought both sides looked very nervy in the first ten or so minutes last night.

Commentators' euphemism for poor play ;)

[pineapple stu]

They were daft alright; that's certainly fair enough.

Maybe the first one was dangerous enough though.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Surprised Iran made it to the end with 11 men after the Portugal penalty set them off. They played well enough, might have done better if they'd kept their heads, and Portugal might rue that equaliser since they now play Uruguay.

[seanfhear]

Surprised Iran made it to the end with 11 men after the Portugal penalty set them off. They played well enough, might have done better if they'd kept their heads, and Portugal might rue that equaliser since they now play Uruguay.
Uruguay looked good today . Russia looked a lot more beatable and had a Player sent off who I assume will be banned for the next game . A few got yellows but I do not know if any of these will be banned ,

[pineapple stu]

Little stat - four more penalties today means we're up to 20 for the tournament, 2 more than the record number of penalties at a World Cup.

Not entirely sure what to make of that really.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I also forgot that there was both a neighbourly and a post-colonial rivalry element to Spain/Morocco, which might explain how bad-tempered that game ended.

Also just saw that Saudi Arabia beat Egypt. The North Africans had a ghastly tournament.

[OwlsFan]

I also forgot that there was both a neighbourly and a post-colonial rivalry element to Spain/Morocco, which might explain how bad-tempered that game ended..

Most of the north African countries have a long-standing beef with the Spanish, French or British. Take your choice.

[pineapple stu]

Another penalty in Nigeria v Argentina - but that looked very soft. Mascherano had arms around, but not restricting the player - naughty, but not that bad. The Nigerian fella threw himself to the ground I thought. Surely VAR should be resolving these issues?

Or am I wrong in thinking it was at best a very soft penalty? But part of the point of VAR was that everything would be clear

[micls]

I agree it was very soft. It was a foul, sure, by the book, but by that definition there's a penalty at every set piece. He lack of consistency is a killer.

[pineapple stu]

Yep - but I think if you're going to throw yourself to the ground to prove it was a foul, then it can hardly have been an infringement worthy of a penalty.

Mascherano is an idiot for having his hands up obviously. But I don't think there was enough there in any event

[NeverFeltBetter]

I think it's a foul, and the correct decision, even with the theatrics. But I suppose the counter argument is that without the theatrics, nothing would be given. The amount of penalties being given is a big indictment of how much players were getting away with up to know.

Panel made much of the Argentina manager celebrating on his own. Coach in name only?

[osarusan]

But part of the point of VAR was that everything would be clear

I don't think so. If it was promoted in that way, it shouldn't have been. Some stuff will never be clear, or clear enough.

We are not talking about stuff like the ball being over the line or not, we are talking about subjective decisions. I don't know how the VAR panel reach a decision as to whether to ask the ref to review an incident or not, but I think it should be more transparent (and just improved too).

I also thought the Nigeria penalty was soft, but I could see why the ref made the decision he did. I don't think that VAR should be used for stuff like that to be honest. It should be used for the more blatant errors - the ones where there is no doubt that the ref just got it wrong.

I think VAR would be better promoted as a way to correct the worst decisions (offsides, blatant dives, off-the-ball incidents, and so on), rather than something that will get every decision right, which it won't ever be.

Last night there was another claim for a penalty after an Argentinean defender mis-headed the ball onto his own arm late in the game. I couldn't believe that the panel asked the ref to review it, and was very pleased to see that he watched it and decided it was not a penalty. Was that a clear an obvious error? I certainly didn't think so, and was shocked to see a panel, who are apparently working off such a criterion, ask the ref to review.

But then again, maybe the ref himself asked to view the footage, and there was no implication that he had made an error.

[OwlsFan]

A huge amount was made of Messi's goal on the Beeb and RTE but very little was made of the absolutely brilliant pass which put him through. Messi took it well ok but the pass was sublime. If it had been Higuain, and the pass was by Messi, all the talk would have been about Messi's pass.

There is speculation that the manager asked Messi's permission to make the substitutions. This is the apparent footage: https://metro.co.uk/2018/06/27/argentina-boss-jorge-sampaoli-asks-lionel-messi-permission-bring-sergio-aguero-7663126/?ito=cbshare Who knows. I can't lip read Spanish.

Did Aguero actually touch the ball for the 10 minutes he was on the pitch ?

According to Messi ‘We knew God was with us and wasn’t going to let us go out. I thank all the fans that are here, for all their sacrifice and to all those in Argentina that were always with us. The shirt of the national team is above all else.’ You could imagine God in heaven with his Argentinian shirt on cheering them on, despite many of the Nigerian players blessing themselves before the game.

[ifk101]

A huge amount was made of Messi's goal on the Beeb and RTE but very little was made of the absolutely brilliant pass which put him through. Messi took it well ok but the pass was sublime. If it had been Higuain, and the pass was by Messi, all the talk would have been about Messi's pass.

He controlled a long ball on his thigh, in the same movement brought it down with his left foot, and controlled it so that it landly perfectly on his right, with which he placed a scoring opportunity from a tight angle out of reach of the goalie. And all this at speed.

Yeah he took "ok".

The pass was ok. Any professional footballer given that much space and time should be able to play a ball over the top like that.

[NeverFeltBetter]

A huge amount was made of Messi's goal on the Beeb and RTE but very little was made of the absolutely brilliant pass which put him through. Messi took it well ok but the pass was sublime. If it had been Higuain, and the pass was by Messi, all the talk would have been about Messi's pass.

There is speculation that the manager asked Messi's permission to make the substitutions. This is the apparent footage: https://metro.co.uk/2018/06/27/argentina-boss-jorge-sampaoli-asks-lionel-messi-permission-bring-sergio-aguero-7663126/?ito=cbshare Who knows. I can't lip read Spanish.



The players are leading that team now, and it'll end in tears at the weekend.

[NeverFeltBetter]

And Germany heading home. Woeful today. The Korean time-wasting was bugging me, since they had nothing to gain from a point, but they oddly always looked a bit more likely to get a goal. Mexico off the hook big time after a terrible show against Sweden.

Is this the end for Low?

[pineapple stu]

I imagine Loew has earned a chance to rebuild. For Germany, this is surely no worse than Euro 2004, and they recovered fairly spectacularly from that.

There will be no more than 6 former finalists in the quarters. Italy, Hungary, Czech Republic/Czechoslovakia and Holland didn't qualify; Germany are gone, and either France or Argentina won't make it too. 1974 was the last time a country qualified for their first World Cup Final. Would be nice to buck that.

Edit - completely forgot about Spain's first World Cup final in 2010... Oops!

[tetsujin1979]

Didn't Loew sign a new contact before the tournament?

[OwlsFan]

Sport: the great leveler. But a few days ago the Swedes were devastated and the Germans on a high. Loews and highs :)

[pineapple stu]

If someone doesn't tell Ronnie Whelan that it's Jay-sus, not Hay-sus, I'm going to reach into the telly and slap him.

[sidewayspasser]

Didn't Loew sign a new contact before the tournament?
He did, until 2022. However, I somewhat expect that he will resign within the next 24 hours.

[osarusan]

Don't mention ze VAR.

[seanfhear]

Germans come a cropper in Russia . And looks like they didn’t see it coming ....again .

[NeverFeltBetter]

Loew is considering his future. I'm sure neither he or the Germans will rush into any decision, there should be some investigation into what went wrong this summer and if a change of manager is the appropriate solution, but I have a feeling he'll go. While I'm sure Germany will stroll into Euro 2020, he won't want to tarnish his legacy any further with another dud Finals performance.

Germany become the third straight defending champions to go out at the group stage. Is there a motivation issue there, of just not having the drive to do it all again once you've already done it (albeit it took one more tournament win for Spain to reach that point)?

[OwlsFan]

Germans come a cropper in Russia . And looks like they didn’t see it coming ....again .

Yes, and they can't blame the snow or mud this time. Didn't see the game. This work business is inclined to get in the way of some games. I hope all the knock out games will be in the evening.

So far no unheralded star has come through the ranks to earn a big money transfer at the end of the tournament. Alexis Sánchez was one of the stars of 2014 although he had of course already made a name for himself at Barcelona.

[osarusan]

Colombia with 45 minutes to stay in it. I thought they looked superb against Poland, but Poland just seem to have been so weak throughout the tournament.

[Stuttgart88]

Mascherano penalty iincident n ARG v NGR:

VAR is there to overturn a clear and obvious ref mistake. If the initial decision was pen, then if the replay showed it was technically a pen but very soft, then the decision to stick with penalty is correct no?

It's all about the burden of proof given the first decision. In cricket, for example, in a LBW decision if the umpire says out and the replay shows exactly half the ball is hitting the stumps, then it's still out. If umpire says not out in the first instance, the fact that half the ball is hitting the stumps isn't sufficient to overturn the decision. And also in rugby, the "can I award a try?" or "is there any reason not to award a try?" change the burden of proof.

That's how I see it anyway!

[Stuttgart88]

A huge amount was made of Messi's goal on the Beeb and RTE but very little was made of the absolutely brilliant pass which put him through. Messi took it well ok but the pass was sublime. If it had been Higuain, and the pass was by Messi, all the talk would have been about Messi's pass.

There is speculation that the manager asked Messi's permission to make the substitutions. This is the apparent footage: https://metro.co.uk/2018/06/27/argentina-boss-jorge-sampaoli-asks-lionel-messi-permission-bring-sergio-aguero-7663126/?ito=cbshare Who knows. I can't lip read Spanish.

Did Aguero actually touch the ball for the 10 minutes he was on the pitch ?

According to Messi ‘We knew God was with us and wasn’t going to let us go out. I thank all the fans that are here, for all their sacrifice and to all those in Argentina that were always with us. The shirt of the national team is above all else.’ You could imagine God in heaven with his Argentinian shirt on cheering them on, despite many of the Nigerian players blessing themselves before the game.The goal reminded me of Long vs Germany. Same finish certainly and a lovely first touch (I think Long's was deliberate). Comparing the initial passes would be a stretch I admit!

[Stuttgart88]

Coach in name only? Ciaran Lennon of the Indo tweeted a great photo pair yesterday: Messi shaking hands with Sampaoli without looking at him, Keane shaking Mick's hand after the Dutch win. The body language was identical in each.

[NeverFeltBetter]

What do people think of Japan's manner of progression? After GD, GS and result between the teams concerned, I can't think of a better tiebreaker than disciplinary record.

Also, last 16 over the last three tournaments:

2010:

AFC: 2
CAF: 1
CONCACAF: 2
CONMEBOL: 5
UEFA: 6

2014:

AFC: 0
CAF: 2
CONCACAF: 3
CONMEBOL: 5
UEFA: 6

2018:

AFC: 1
CAF: 1
CONCACAF: 1
CONMEBOL: 3
UEFA: 11

Europe ftw.

[osarusan]

What do people think of Japan's manner of progression? After GD, GS and result between the teams concerned, I can't think of a better tiebreaker than disciplinary record.

If that's the tiebreaker, so be it. It was known in advance, and anything is better than drawing lots. Japan came through against 3 teams that would have physically outmatched them and picked up fewer bookings.

They were very lucky in other ways though - I think the match against Colombia would have been completely different apart from the early red card and penalty.

EDIT: The way they went through on 'fair play' rings somewhat false after the farcical last 10 minutes of their game too. It looked horrible, but at the same time, it was probably the right thing to do. They are through.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Jeez, all this "Easier half of the draw" talk for England. There's only one game you should be thinking about, and that's the next one. Columbia being treated like some afterthought.

[seanfhear]

Jeez, all this "Easier half of the draw" talk for England. There's only one game you should be thinking about, and that's the next one. Columbia being treated like some afterthought.
True enough and it sort of makes you hope that Colombia beats them for it . It is doubtful that James Rodriquez will play as he came off early the other day and look likes he himself was consigned to not being fit .

A big loss for any team .

[jbyrne]

Jeez, all this "Easier half of the draw" talk for England. There's only one game you should be thinking about, and that's the next one. Columbia being treated like some afterthought.

I only really saw Columbia in their Poland match but if they are half as good against England as they were that night I predict a 2-1 Colombia win. thought they were excellent that game

[seanfhear]

This Colombian Game is England’s first real game .

Panama was not a real test . Tunisia ? (maybe ) Belgium Game = Not applicable .

Its probably better that James Rodriquez broke down in the previous game than early in the England game for Colombia .

Now they know what they have to do without him ( as seems likely ) .

[Stuttgart88]

ironically, could the ref have booked any of them, the captain maybe, for unsporting behaviour or time wasting?

[osarusan]

ironically, could the ref have booked any of them, the captain maybe, for unsporting behaviour or time wasting?

Yeah, I was wondering about this myself - is there any way to punish it - but I don't think so. They did pretty much the same thing against Colombia, but they were 1-0 ahead so nobody batted an eyelid at it.

Timewasting - the ball was in play, so I don't think so.

Bringing the game into disrepute was one I thought of - the headlines would definitely suggest they did...but that seems to be a sanction that comes later.

Tbh, it happens so rarely that there isn't even a rule for it.

They are getting a bit of criticism even in Japan for it, but the coach, in the usual humble way, is pointing out that they did in fact reach the second round, so, maybe, you know, despite the way it was achieved, it was actually not too stupid.

[Stuttgart88]

A classic. Simple as.

[Eminence Grise]

That was a humdinger!

[pineapple stu]

Argentina kind of reminded me in a way of Brazil 1970.

One of the greatest players in the world at number 10 (Messi/Pelé)

Superb attacking options - how the hell does a bench contain Higuain, Dybala and Aguero?

And yet with a keeper clearly not up to it (Felix/Caballero/yer man today), and a porous defence.

In 1970, other teams were so far behind Brazil that they weren't able to take advantage. Now though, you can't carry a keeper and defence, and so Argentina are gone.

The game has moved on from 1970.

[osarusan]

Thought Uruguay were super tonight. Defensively outstanding, such work rate and discipline.

And even though Cavani usually misses 4 before he scores 1, he was lethal when he had chances tonight.