World Cup Tournament 2018

[OwlsFan]

Japan are hopeless up front from first half viewing, and completely unable to stretch the Colombian defence at all.

Are you George Hamilton is disguise ;) ?

Some interesting facts from the game. First time an Asian team has beaten a South American side (18 games) at the WC and it's the first tournament where all of the SA sides have failed to win in the opening games.

[tetsujin1979]

Was that mixed up with Tunisia’s attacking Plan .....Or was that toothless .....

BgqtBm_oUpc

[NeverFeltBetter]

Surprised by how poor Poland were, bull**** second goal or no. This makes Columbia/Poland real interesting.

It also appears Neymar's tournament is in serious jeopardy.

[legendz]

Is George Hamilton the only RTÉ commentator in Russia? Ger Canning was commentating on a GAA match at the weekend.

[pineapple stu]

Shambles of a goal there for Russia. Simple catch for the keeper, but he punches. Then the defender - with 130 caps - spends so much time pulling his opponent's jersey that he misses where the ball is, and slots into the bottom corner of his own net.

This shirt-pulling in particular seems more endemic than ever it was. I thought there was a rule brought in a couple of years ago that it was a penalty, and it was to be clamped down on hard?

[NeverFeltBetter]

There was, officials just aren't enforcing.

Egypt going out with a whimper here, the hosts strolling into the second round. Really expected better of Egypt, I've spent literal decades hearing about how they were one of the best teams to consistently fail to qualify.

[osarusan]

Egypt are pretty much a one man show. No real threat.

Another team that pass the ball round neatly in areas where it will do no damage, but are fairly toothless up front.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Morocco the first team out of contention after failing to find a way through Portugal. They gave it a go at least. Uruguay currently toying with the Saudis.

[tetsujin1979]

Is George Hamilton the only RTÉ commentator in Russia? Ger Canning was commentating on a GAA match at the weekend.

I know commentators are supposed to remain neutral, but Canning could be commentating on the final, or the colour of his wallpaper, and it would be delivered in the same monotone

[NeverFeltBetter]

I think its a combination of ignorance of the sport/players, and apathy from a GAA head for what he's seeing. The contrast with him and Kerr in terms of knowledge and interest is gigantic: Kerr yesterday was actually analyzing the game and pointing out where exactly Saudi Arabia were going wrong, with Canning offering a basic English summation of what was occuring. You'd think there would be some football reporter in the office they'd give a chance to.

[osarusan]

To be fair, the commentator's job is to narrate what is happening, the analyst's job is to provide insight into why things are happening.

Canning probably doesn't want to be commentating on it, any more than we want to be listening to him.

[OwlsFan]

Speaking of commentating, George didn't do in the Spain/Iran game what I learned to do the hard way many years ago: before thinking that a goal that has been scored, look at the ref and then the linesman. The ref never indicated that the Iranian shot which hit the back of the net was a goal. The flag was up but George merrily went his way commentating as if it was a goal.

As to the match itself, an interesting game I thought despite the ultra defensive play by the Iranians until Spain scored. And after they scored, the Iranians came out and played some good football and could have equalised. Sadlier said he thought Iran were correct to play ultra defensive because Spain would cut them open if they didn't. Well why was it then that when Iran played a much more expansive game Spain never looked like scoring again? It's not that they didn't try. Although I don't want to sound like Dunphy, Spain did look a bit dodgy at the back on occasions.

I really think that teams like Iran with their foreign coaches are not doing themselves justice with these play for a draw tactics in most games. They can play football.

[jbyrne]

Speaking of commentating, George didn't do in the Spain/Iran game what I learned to do the hard way many years ago: before thinking that a goal that has been scored, look at the ref and then the linesman. The ref never indicated that the Iranian shot which hit the back of the net was a goal. The flag was up but George merrily went his way commentating as if it was a goal.


to be fair to george Hamilton the scoreboard on the screen went 1-1 which, I assume, was solely under the host broadcasters control. he wasn't the only one who thought it was a goal

[seanfhear]

For a country that once had Michael O' Hehir as a supreme commentator I can’t say that Ger Canning measures up . Ok , It would be very hard to come anywhere near .

Its so typical of RTE that a Person gets into a Position and is then impossible to move on . Could they not have Promoted him upstairs or something ?

[jbyrne]

For a country that once had Michael O' Hehir as a supreme commentator I can’t say that Ger Canning measures up . Ok , It would be very hard to come anywhere near .

Its so typical of RTE that a Person gets into a Position and is then impossible to move on . Could they not have Promoted him upstairs or something ?

what's more disappointing is that it appears they have sent maybe only one commentary team to Russia with the rest quite obviously sitting in a studio in Dublin. the result is that the commentary sounds like it was added after the match was over and the atmosphere comes across muted

[NeverFeltBetter]

To be fair, the commentator's job is to narrate what is happening, the analyst's job is to provide insight into why things are happening.


You're right of course, I should have been more expansive by saying that Canning's basic decription is obviously lacking in any kind of verve or effort to appear engaged with whats happening/ A real Kent Brockman "Half-back passes to centre" job.

[seanfhear]

Speaking of commentating, George didn't do in the Spain/Iran game what I learned to do the hard way many years ago: before thinking that a goal that has been scored, look at the ref and then the linesman. The ref never indicated that the Iranian shot which hit the back of the net was a goal. The flag was up but George merrily went his way commentating as if it was a goal.

As to the match itself, an interesting game I thought despite the ultra defensive play by the Iranians until Spain scored. And after they scored, the Iranians came out and played some good football and could have equalised. Sadlier said he thought Iran were correct to play ultra defensive because Spain would cut them open if they didn't. Well why was it then that when Iran played a much more expansive game Spain never looked like scoring again? It's not that they didn't try. Although I don't want to sound like Dunphy, Spain did look a bit dodgy at the back on occasions.

I really think that teams like Iran with their foreign coaches are not doing themselves justice with these play for a draw tactics in most games. They can play football.I though the Iranians were fine physical specimens with very good fitness which is handy against Spain . You’d wonder how good they could be if given their heads against another team other than Spain . As good as Spain were they won by a fortunate goal .

[NeverFeltBetter]

Great result for Australia. Group on a real knife-edge now: if France and Peru draw, France and Denmark could have a kickabout 0-0 in the last game and both progress. If Peru win, any one of the four could go through.

[pineapple stu]

This World Cup is starting to fall a but flat tbh. We're down below Italia 90 levels goalswise, and that's after starting with a 5-0 and 3-3 in the first 24 hours.

There's been few enough upsets to speak of. Peru have done ok, but have nothing to show for it.

There's been some good games - Spain v Portugal; Denmark v Peru; Germany v Mexico to name 3 - but too many have been turgid affairs.

And the games are all very similar. One team attacks, but there's 8 defensive players around the edge of the box; no way through; get tackled. Up to the other end, but there's already 8 defensive players around the edge of the box; no way forward; have a shot from 25 yards; wildly over. It's too easy now for professional teams just to sit on the edge of the box.

I think that's why it feels like there's been so many great goals - scoring from 25 yards is becoming increasingly important as a skill because you can't cut defences open any more.

There's still two-thirds of the tournament to go, so have to give it time. But if so many games continue being one-dimensional turgid 1-0 wins, you wonder will rule changes be proposed (like the backpass rule in 1991). But I can't think of anything simple and obvious (cutting out wrestling aside) that might help.

/shaking fist at cloud

[seanfhear]

^^^^^ All Joking aside the Goals need to be made bigger . At least One Ball higher and two ball widths wider .

Once upon a time you were lucky if the goalkeeper was 6 foot tall and most of the time he was in 4 to 6 inches of mud . Its a very simple change that will lead to more Goals .

[NeverFeltBetter]

There have been lots of dud matches: too many of the lower seeds playing for draws, too many of the "big" teams struggling to either put in the appropriate amount of effort (Uruguay for one) or breakdown a packed defence more than once a game. A 1-0 can still be entertaining of course, but when they start to pile-up...

At least there are already two groups where the third round of games have must-win scenarios for lower seeded sides that could provide some serious drama.

[pineapple stu]

^^^^^ All Joking aside the Goals need to be made bigger . At least One Ball higher and two ball widths wider .

Once upon a time you were lucky if the goalkeeper was 6 foot tall and most of the time he was in 4 to 6 inches of mud . Its a very simple change that will lead to more Goals .
Making the goals bigger would certainly lead to more goals alright. I remember Kevin Myers had a column in the Irish Times years ago saying they should be made 10ft high and 10 yards wide (as opposed to 8x8 now), so there'd be areas of the goal that keepers couldn't reach, and you'd get 5-3s all over the shop. That's daft; you can't have unsaveable areas, and 5-3s would diminish the power of the goal. An rud is annamh is iontach, and all that.

But I don't think making the goals bigger would alter the fact that it's so hard to get a shot away in the first place. Arguably the solution is to make the pitch bigger, but that's obviously impossible. Reducing teams to 10 a side would probably be too big a move for FIFA to consider (understandably so; there has to be some continuity with the game's past)

You can't give more points for a win because that just further paralyses teams already scared of losing. You can't give bonus points for scoring goals because that just screams "match rigging" You could tweak the offside so you can't be offside in the box, say, but those kind of tweaks have been counter-productive in recent years (lots of long ball stuff)

Not entirely sure what the answer is. The players are just so much bigger and fitter than they were when the game was invented that they're too big for the pitch now.

[pineapple stu]

This one is quite nasty. A poor game, but the leg-breakers are breaking up (if you'll excuse the pun) the general monotony of the games to date, and are making it vaguely watchable.

[osarusan]

Argentina falling apart. Shambolic stuff.

[pineapple stu]

Argentina in big trouble in the group now. Need to beat Nigeria, but if Iceland do that as well, then Argentina are going to have a good bit of goal difference to catch up. Could well see them not in the knock-outs.

Feel sorry for Messi; he's about the only one trying out there for them.

[micls]

Argentina in big trouble in the group now. Need to beat Nigeria, but if Iceland do that as well, then Argentina are going to have a good bit of goal difference to catch up. Could well see them not in the knock-outs.

Feel sorry for Messi; he's about the only one trying out there for them.

Iceland will beat Nigeria and Croatia. Croatia will rest players. Argentina are gone I'd say.

[pineapple stu]

A dull 0-0 draw more likely; I think Croatia will want to top the group. Runner-up probably plays France next; winner plays Denmark/Australia.

But yeah, quite possible alright.

[NeverFeltBetter]

A lot of the Argentinian players have looked seriously fatigued, perhaps a training issue? When that midfielder (missed the name) lost the ball ahead of the second goal, and refused to track back, it took on shades of the 7-1.

Just no kind of shape to them. A team of individuals. Croatia just had to absorb and break when the moments came.

[seanfhear]

Are Croatia a physically big team . The Argentines looked smaller than them in nearly every position .

Both Croatia and Serbia are Physically big . Something in the water in them there parts .

[seanfhear]

Making the goals bigger would certainly lead to more goals alright. I remember Kevin Myers had a column in the Irish Times years ago saying they should be made 10ft high and 10 yards wide (as opposed to 8x8 now), so there'd be areas of the goal that keepers couldn't reach, and you'd get 5-3s all over the shop. That's daft; you can't have unsaveable areas, and 5-3s would diminish the power of the goal. An rud is annamh is iontach, and all that.

But I don't think making the goals bigger would alter the fact that it's so hard to get a shot away in the first place. Arguably the solution is to make the pitch bigger, but that's obviously impossible. Reducing teams to 10 a side would probably be too big a move for FIFA to consider (understandably so; there has to be some continuity with the game's past)

You can't give more points for a win because that just further paralyses teams already scared of losing. You can't give bonus points for scoring goals because that just screams "match rigging" You could tweak the offside so you can't be offside in the box, say, but those kind of tweaks have been counter-productive in recent years (lots of long ball stuff)

Not entirely sure what the answer is. The players are just so much bigger and fitter than they were when the game was invented that they're too big for the pitch now.I think you talked yourself back to making the Goals bigger there . Its the most simple solution to the problem and attacking teams would benefit .

[NeverFeltBetter]

Any changes designed to turn matches into goal-fests strikes me as, well, very American, as if the sport can't be entertaining unless someone is scoring every five minutes. Attackers and attacking tactics are just going to have to get better. And there's skill and value in defensive football, and in goalkeeping, even if it isn't making the highlights, and they don't deserve manufactured handicaps.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, you don't want to Americanise it alright. Since 1962, the goals per game average at the World Cup has been under 3. It's dropped from 2.75 to 2.15 in that time. 2014 was a great tournament until the last 8, and that was up at 2.75 average again, so that's the target I think.

Obviously goals aren't everything; yes, there's value in defending. But it's just that a lot of the games are becoming so similar that's the problem, and it's so hard to break down a defence, leading to defensive teams, fewer goals, and more of the same type of goals.

[NeverFeltBetter]

What is with all of this "Messi's last World Cup" stuff? He's only 30 and hasn't announced an imminent retirement from international football as far as I'm aware, and much worse players have played in tournaments at age 34.

[pineapple stu]

Probably thinking he'll retire from international football again, like he did a year or two ago. But no reason he couldn't play next time alright, although he'd be 35 as it's a winter tournament in Qatar.

Brazil v Costa Rica another dire slog; one shot on target all half. This was one of the best games of the 2002 World Cup; incessant attack and outrageous skill (thinking Lucio's overhead kick goal from a corner in particular). But now it's all been coached out of them.

I wonder if the viewing figures are holding up for the tournament?

[osarusan]

The players are just so much bigger and fitter than they were when the game was invented that they're too big for the pitch now.

Yeah, I think that players are fitter and able to switch between a high press in midfield and then back to the edge of their own box very effectively and quickly, so there is no space or time in either area.

[pineapple stu]

Finally starting to open up a little bit now. Decent game last night between Switzerland and Serbia, even if Serbia will be rightly livid with the rejected penalty call. Switzerland are the first team to come from behind in the tournament to win; Spain v Portugal was the only other game where both sides had the lead.

Belgium now enjoyably tearing into a poor Tunisia side in a manner which will have England worried. England did this for the first half and only scored once, but then couldn't raise their game at all for the entire second half.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Germany might be about to join France, Italy and Spain in the "Defending champions going out in the first round" club. It's practically the norm now.

I've read the German squad is being badly affected by cliqueism, with the Bayern contingent on the one hand and Ozil, Boatang and co on the other. This stuff with the Turkish President was remarkably ill-timed too, and its showing on the pitch, especially at the back. Low's biggest team talk ever is about to take place.

[pineapple stu]

Would be remarkable if both finalists from last time went out in the group stages this time; very rare event (though it happened in 2010 actually)

Also really opens up the draw to a surprise finalist, which is something we haven't had in many, many years. Would the Czechs in '62 be the last one? Though even they were third in the previous Euros. With Italy and Holland not even qualifying, you could have Argentina and Germany out, and then the top 8 teams would be Brazil, Portugal, Belgium, Poland (who've already lost their first match), France, Spain, Switzerland and England. So easy to see a relative minnow like Mexico, Switzerland or Croatia reaching the quarters, or maybe even the semis. (Haven't looked at the draw to see how that would pan out yet)

[pineapple stu]

Germany well up for this second half. Think this will end 3 or 4-1 now.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I was just thinking that Sweden might well be the dark horse worth looking at: very disciplined at the back, dangerous on the break, maybe the Swiss in the Second Round if things work out. Then they conceded, and suddenly look very flustered.

RTE mentioned they haven't won two consecutive World Cup games since hosting the tournament 60 years ago. But weren't they third in the US?

[pineapple stu]

They drew their last group game, won the round of 16, "drew" the quarters against Romania and won on penalties which I suppose doesn't count, then lost the semis before winning the third-fourth place play off

[NeverFeltBetter]

What a finish. Germany going all out even with ten men was great to see, and the ball just wouldn't go in all second half. Huge let-off for Low, but he risked the lot after the sending off and won.

Germany and Sweden now in opposing shoot-outs on the last day.

[pineapple stu]

Yep; the last four or five games have all been quite decent. Teams have started coming out to play, and it's so much better to watch.

Germany deserved that in the end I thought. But who was it had a shot straight at Neuer a minute earlier when he should have run into the corner? That's what cost them the draw.

[osarusan]

Germany and Sweden now in opposing shoot-outs on the last day.
Mexico not through yet either. If they lose and Germany win, all 3 are on 6 points, and it would go to goal difference.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Could be looking at a Brazil/Germany second round tie.

[pineapple stu]

Panama the latest to think this is wrestling, not football. Daft stuff. Fortunately the only player they weren't pulling to the ground scored.

I'll admit to being pleasantly surprised at how well VAR has worked, even though I still don't like it too much (and we still have yet to see a goal given/ruled out by it). But it now needs to be used for this. The hint is that some refs might be ignoring the VAR advice, like in Serbia v Switzerland. These refs need to be sat down in front of the decisions they waved away and refused to review to help improve their refereeing. It's absolutely tough being the man in the middle, but this wrestling stuff is out of control at the moment

[pineapple stu]

Don't think it's ever pleased me before to see England doing so well.

Panama are a nasty side. This is just desserts on a Brazil 1-7 Germany scale

[NeverFeltBetter]

Good time to point out that of the 31 countries that made it through qualifying, Panama were the only one with a negative GD.

Japan would be a great team if they could convert more. They should have scored a few times at 1-1, now behind again. Still the likeliest AFC team to progress.

[Poor Student]

Don't think it's ever pleased me before to see England doing so well.

Panama are a nasty side. This is just desserts on a Brazil 1-7 Germany scale

Still cleaner than Harps though. ;)

[Stuttgart88]

Mexico not through yet either. If they lose and Germany win, all 3 are on 6 points, and it would go to goal difference.If Sweden win, they are guaranteed to finish ahead of Mexico I think. At moment Mexico are 6 pts, GD+2, GS3, Sweden are 3 pts, GD 0, GS 2.

If Sweden win by 1, they'll both have 6 points, GD will now each be +1 and GS will improve by 1 in Sweden's favour. Sweden will > Mexico on the head-to-head. If Sweden win by more than 1 then they will be better than Mexico on GD. That late South Korea goal could be crucial.

You'd also assume that Germany will beat South Korea by more than 1. If only by 1, Germany will be +1 GD and it would go to GS. Fascinating group, as is Colombia/Japan/Senegal.