Turkey V Republic of Ireland - Antalya - 23rd March 2018 - Friendly

[shakermaker1982]

Did the 532 work?

Twitter and Facebook is just full of Liverpool fans slagging off the team and the manager.

[Fixer82]

That was painful stuff.
Severe lack of composure and technical ability in the squad.

How many times did Turks play one touch football and when we got it our players had to take two or three touches?

Couldn’t pass the ball out of defence and ended up hoofing out for Turkish throw.
McClean as a wing back was too intent on hoofing ball as hard as he could into the sky.

Positives for me were Doyle, Rice, Maguire and Horgan.
Good to see Alan Judge playing again.

Once again though, we concede by not sorting out a two-man corner. Happened against Scots and Danes.

[tricky_colour]

Did the 532 work?

Twitter and Facebook is just full of Liverpool fans slagging off the team and the manager.

Not according to a commentator on RTE he said it made no difference
then it automatically switched to the England game, the highlight of which was a young blonde girl,
one of the children who come on with the players for the national anthem, flicking two fingers
at the camera when she was on TV :o

Aside from that all the children with the England team looked pretty miserable.

[Fixer82]

Another positive for me was 8 of the 11 starters singing Amhrán na bhFiann. Must be the most we’ve had singing it in years.

[Kingdom]

Thought second half we played well enough, Rice took a bit of time to get into it but was excellent once he got into the game and was even more so when when he moved into midfield. Meyler & Rice in cm is what we should go with going forward in my opinion. Hendricks had another anonymous game, first half he's the senior lad in middle and he was nowhere to be seen. There's goals in Seani and Hogan if we can get them the service, Dunner had it right after the game saying we're too conservative in midfield, if you cede that and sit back in the middle you'll be hard pressed to create anything. Optimistic after that despite the result.
You know that one chance we created.......it was Jeff, out of nothing.

[colonelwest]

You know that one chance we created.......it was Jeff, out of nothing.

Aye it was, that's the stuff he's capable of doing and that he needs to do more often, he needs to be more aggressive on the ball and off the ball looking for it. Rice did more of that on his debut at 19 years of age when he went into midfield than Hendrick has done since the Euros pretty much.

[tricky_colour]

https://youtu.be/UE9ciobvxrU?t=5m14s

5m14s stick tongue out and flicks two fingers!!

I have noticed earlier that all the England "mascots" all looked really miserable so I
was wondering what she was so happy about, note all the rest of the dutch mascots
look pretty miserable to, at least she is enjoying herself.



(https://youtu.be/UE9ciobvxrU?t=5m16s)

[backstothewall]

I only got seeing parts of the match but I find myself surprised at how negative the comments are. It was more or less a scratch team, and Turkey are no mugs.

3 at the back seemed to work well enough. There wasn't many chances for either side but of the parts of the game i've watched we created the best one from open play. None of the new players looked out of place, Rice was obviously impressive but I also liked the look of Hogan. We've given a run out to some of those who show up for squad after squad without ever getting very much in the way of playing time which will have to be good for harmony in the squad.

Overall I felt it was a worthwhile exercise, and there were plenty of positives.

[Fixer82]

I only got seeing parts of the match but I find myself surprised at how negative the comments are. It was more or less a scratch team, and Turkey are no mugs.

3 at the back seemed to work well enough. There wasn't many chances for either side but of the parts of the game i've watched we created the best one from open play. None of the new players looked out of place, Rice was obviously impressive but I also liked the look of Hogan. We've given a run out to some of those who show up for squad after squad without ever getting very much in the way of playing time which will have to be good for harmony in the squad.

Overall I felt it was a worthwhile exercise, and there were plenty of positives.

The negativity is due to the haplessness of so many of the players making basic mistakes. Not controlling the ball with first touch. Hoofing the ball out of play so much and making a balls of trying to pass out of the back.

[tricky_colour]

http://i63.tinypic.com/29njne0.jpg

Naughty Dutch girl!

[DannyInvincible]

Not a great game but we did better in the second half. Liked the look of Rice, particularly when he was moved into midfield. Hogan was unlucky not to score his chance; he shouldn't have bothered trying to round the keeper. Thought Maguire impressed too; should have had a penalty.

[Fixer82]

Not a great game but we did better in the second half. Liked the look of Rice, particularly when he was moved into midfield. Hogan was unlucky not to score his chance; he shouldn't have bothered trying to round the keeper. Thought Maguire impressed too; should have had a penalty.

Hogan should have slid to make the ball instead of trying to catch up with it.
Maguire definitely deserved a peno.

But overall I found the game so frustrating. The Turks looked far superior on the ball.

[Olé Olé]

Not a bad exercise at all. I think we allowed ourselves to get pinned into our own half in midfield. The three lads there struggled to get into the game as a result (Browne, Hourihane and Hendrick). Maguire and Hogan look good and Rice looks great.

[Fixer82]

Whelan at one stage said that we were sitting back inviting them on to us. But our defence (Duffy and McClean) in particular consistently hoofed the ball back to the Turks in the first half. The midfield had no option but to sit deep and defend as the Turks came forward with the ball time and again

[Stuttgart88]

I was really disappointed in that. Sure, Rice looked like a thoroughbred footballer but the standard of play was generally rubbish - as we have become accustomed to under MON. Totally lacking cohesion. The only consistent passing was between our CBs who eventually hoofed it up to two midgets upfront.

Midfield totally abdicated responsibility in the first half, bar a passage of play on 42 mins when they all seemed to want the ball. Anyone notice when Rice had possession once and held his arms up begging for an option? In the first 5-10 mins territory was quite even. Then Turkey realised we lacked ambition with the ball and moved up 5-10 yards. Then after another 10 mins they realised we simply moved back, so they moved up again. From around 25 mins onwards Turkey's deepest players were playing inside our half.

I thought Horgan had something about him when he came on and Doherty showed a bit of swagger. He's a confident lad.

Doyle did grand but his distribution makes Randolph look like Liam Brady. He's definitely not a threat to any of the more established options. Maguire's first touch is like Mick McCathy's. If your forward pair are to feed off scraps the ball has to stick. Instead it bounced off both of them like a rubber ball on a tiled floor.

The goal was brain dead defensively. Turkey tried the same thing only a few mins earlier from the other side and it led to a chance they should have scored from. I liked that move actually, it's just a shame we were asleep. Didn't we concede at a crucial time of the game against Denmark from a short corner too? These are the details that matter.

I didn't notice much from Hendrick other than his pass for Hogan. I was watching on a small screen in a pub in Kilburn and could barely hear the commentary. I struggled to make out which midfielder was which at times.

Really uninspiring. I didn't care about the result I just wanted some signs of life, signs that O'Neill is getting reasonably good players - which they are - to play reasonably well. I didn't really see much of that.

[Stuttgart88]

That was painful stuff.
Severe lack of composure and technical ability in the squad.

How many times did Turks play one touch football and when we got it our players had to take two or three touches?

Couldn’t pass the ball out of defence and ended up hoofing out for Turkish throw.
McClean as a wing back was too intent on hoofing ball as hard as he could into the sky.

Positives for me were Doyle, Rice, Maguire and Horgan.
Good to see Alan Judge playing again.

Once again though, we concede by not sorting out a two-man corner. Happened against Scots and Danes.This, except I think (hope?) the midfielders picked have the technical ability just not the "moral courage" to demand the ball. That's their effing job.

[backstothewall]

This issue raised about Rice looking around for someone to pass to. Harry Arter has made taking the ball from the back 4 his stock and trade at Bournemouth. A Rice-Arter axis could be key to us in the future.

[Olé Olé]

This issue raised about Rice looking around for someone to pass to. Harry Arter has made taking the ball from the back 4 his stock and trade at Bournemouth. A Rice-Arter axis could be key to us in the future.

McCarthy's best games for us have been when he's done something similar, albeit less aggressively than Arter does.

Hogan and Maguire up front offer serious pace and the gilt-edged chance of Hogan offered an insight as to how it would work out in the future. Being able to move the ball quickly through midfield would seriously facilitate creating chances like that with their pace to get behind defences.

[backstothewall]

McCarthy's best games for us have been when he's done something similar, albeit less aggressively than Arter does.

Hogan and Maguire up front offer serious pace and the gilt-edged chance of Hogan offered an insight as to how it would work out in the future. Being able to move the ball quickly through midfield would seriously facilitate creating chances like that with their pace to get behind defences.

I wouldn't mind a look at playing Rice as a libero in one of the friendlies coming up. It might be hard to fit McClean in to that system but it feels like that is going to be an issue in any system we play with the players available to us

[shakermaker1982]

Sounds like we are still going long. It really pi$$es me off that this is still allowed to happen. Roy Keane was one of the best CM players to give a short pass. One touch, two touch he would move the ball on. Why isn’t this filtering down to the players?

They surely play one and two touch at training? If my Sunday league side can practice it once a week at training on a Tuesday night and then see a big difference over the course of a season on mud bath pitches it’s not surely too much to ask to see professionals make a step change in their approach?!!

Not every time but we will never improve if our mindset is just to go long. Football has moved on - we need to catch up.

Good to hear that Rice was a positive. Just need to find 5 or 6 of his quality!

[Fixer82]

This issue raised about Rice looking around for someone to pass to. Harry Arter has made taking the ball from the back 4 his stock and trade at Bournemouth. A Rice-Arter axis could be key to us in the future.

It won’t stop our defence panicking and hoofing it cos their first touch was poor.

Another thing I noticed. When ball was in the air Turkish defenders generally headed it toward one of their own players. When ball was in the air for Irish defence they generally just headed it anywhere away from goal. Invariably to the feet of a Turk

[Stuttgart88]

I've just read an interview with Rice where he says he only knew he was playing an hour before KO. I really hate that. How can you know and prepare for your role if you don't know you're playing? And yet we concede from set pieces all the time.

I can't stand Dunphy and no doubt Owls Fan will have something to say but I agree with every word he says here

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/its-mad-it-really-is-mad-eamon-dunphys-brutal-verdict-on-irelands-new-era-under-oneill-and-keane-36739142.html

O'Neill is a relic of pre-2008 football and he is harming this team and its prospects. I wish he had gone to Stoke.

[Diggs246]

I have to say regardless of his Villa exploits, Conor Hourihane has never once played anywhere near the required level for Ireland

[seanfhear]

Is there anything FIFA can do with the Rules of football to stop teams playing like Ireland do . Its a sort of Anti-Football . Ok I have had one or two ( glasses of vino ) .

But the way Ireland and similar teams play football has to be stopped .

[CraftyToePoke]

Is there anything FIFA can do with the Rules of football to stop teams playing like Ireland do . Its a sort of Anti-Football . Ok I have had one or two ( glasses of vino ) .

But the way Ireland and similar teams play football has to be stopped .

Ban heading.

[Stuttgart88]

Is there anything FIFA can do with the Rules of football to stop teams playing like Ireland do . Its a sort of Anti-Football . Ok I have had one or two ( glasses of vino ) .

But the way Ireland and similar teams play football has to be stopped .What similar teams?

[boysingreen]

Frustrating to watch to say the least. Friendly or not, we look absolutely clueless.

[seanfhear]

What similar teams?The Icelandic way of playing ain’t exactly beautiful to watch for a neutral . People sort of put up with it because it has been successful for a small country . Norway down through the years ( I don’t know their style at the moment ) were the opposite of must see football .

[Stuttgart88]

Sorry Old fella, I was actually joking and wasn't expecting a serious answer! I don't think anyone is as bad to watch as we are though. Icelands's results in qualifying have been amazing and the performances have been superior to anything we ever do.

[geysir]

Right on, man.

[geysir]

Afaics there are no teams who play the game like us. Even the 'minnows' play good football against similar standard teams and also against many of the better teams. It's not the mistakes on the pitch that worry me about that performance the other night, it's the basic defunct philosophy that's underpinning the set-up that eats away at the remnants of hope. We're like the guy 'Biff', who hasn't the brains to debate the issue and always wants to take it outside to settle the issue.

[OwlsFan]

I've just read an interview with Rice where he says he only knew he was playing an hour before KO. I really hate that. How can you know and prepare for your role if you don't know you're playing? And yet we concede from set pieces all the time.

I can't stand Dunphy and no doubt Owls Fan will have something to say but I agree with every word he says here

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/its-mad-it-really-is-mad-eamon-dunphys-brutal-verdict-on-irelands-new-era-under-oneill-and-keane-36739142.html

O'Neill is a relic of pre-2008 football and he is harming this team and its prospects. I wish he had gone to Stoke.

Didn't see the game as I was in the UK. I don't have an issue with the long ball game provided that it is effective and we win games as a result (e.g. we have a Niall Quinn or a Tony Cascarino up front) but it does seem bizarre to be pumping the ball up to vertically challenged forwards if that is what happened (I'll take your word for it rather than reading Dunphy, who, if we played the passing game and lost, would be saying that we should be hitting it long).

It's a team now in transition with apparent ball players and who shouldn't regard the ball as a hot potato to be disposed of as quickly as possible. Perhaps O'Neill will recognise this and get the best out of the players - let's hope so.

I didn't see the goal from the corner. It is interesting though that one of O'Neill's tactics has been to feint taking a short corner to draw 2 defenders out for the one extra attacker. Perhaps his line of thinking is I am not going to fall for this and only send one defender out ??

As an exercise, I think that is about time that we have played away friendlies rather than playing Oman and Poland at home. More of the same and give the team a chance to gel. Let's not be too harsh on the basis of one game.

[Fixer82]

There are so-called minnows that embarrass us with their superior technical abilities. Georgia comes to mind

[tricky_colour]

So Rice gets all the praise, but had anyone one mentioned the goal went in off his backside yet?


https://youtu.be/VR7a_r1hKqs?t=2m37s

[tetsujin1979]

does it? It's impossible to tell

[tetsujin1979]

does it really matter that Rice was told he was going to start an hour before kick off, if he played so well and won MOTM?

[Stuttgart88]

Well if all the players were only told they were playing an hour before the match how can they be properly prepared? Being debriefed on their role, how to handle a direct opponent, whose responsibility it is to pick a loose player from a short corner etc. What Trap called the leetle details.

[tetsujin1979]

Trap would pick a team sometimes a week before a game, and people complained that made us too predictable!

[DeLorean]

Well if all the players were only told they were playing an hour before the match how can they be properly prepared? Being debriefed on their role, how to handle a direct opponent, whose responsibility it is to pick a loose player from a short corner etc. What Trap called the leetle details.

I don't know, it makes sense what you're saying but the one thing we've generally been is organised from a defensive point of view. I suppose a players potential role can be explained and practised without it necessarily being confirmed he's going to start. When have our players looked as though they don't know their role?

Getting caught out by short corners is down to a drop in concentration I think, if that's what you mean, not a lack of preparation beforehand. Players on the pitch have to be smart and alert enough to respond to variations in the opposition's approach. It was poor getting caught out by the first Turkish corner on Friday, but unforgivable to be caught out again five minutes later and MON naming the team three weeks ago probably wouldn't have prevented it.

[Fixer82]

I've no huge issue with the team being named late.
Surely the players are ready to go no matter what and know their positions/roles

[jbyrne]

Well if all the players were only told they were playing an hour before the match how can they be properly prepared? Being debriefed on their role, how to handle a direct opponent, whose responsibility it is to pick a loose player from a short corner etc. What Trap called the leetle details.

I can see that argument but maybe the players preparation is effectively covered during the week at training and lads effectively know that they will be playing early enough in the week due to the teams (first v reserves) that are arranged in the practise matches.

what concerns me more is the players inability to put passes where they should go and the inability at times to control simple passes. this was quite evident last Friday. one pass from a midfield player to our RB at the time in the second half summed it up for me.... it should have been a simple pass back to the full back but it went past him requiring our RB to turn to retrieve the pass but by then the turks had pressed up on him and so the RB had no option but to launch it up the pitch. too many of our passes put the receiving player under pressure for me and I cant understand why its so bad at times

[Diggs246]

Yes, also it keeps all players at all times at the ready.

[osarusan]

I don't know, it makes sense what you're saying but the one thing we've generally been is organised from a defensive point of view. I suppose a players potential role can be explained and practised without it necessarily being confirmed he's going to start. When have our players looked as though they don't know their role?

This is true, but only if the players starting won't make a difference to the tactics.

If it's as simple as 'the left winger will do this, this and this' then everybody knows their job, regardless of who the left winger turns out to be on the day. But if it's as simple as that, it means there aren't really any variations on tactics based on the individual players, along the lines of 'if X plays up front, we deliver the ball like this, but if it's Y, we do it like this'.

But seeing as how we were hoofing it up to two small forwards, maybe it really is as simple as that.

[DeLorean]

I'd say it's safe enough to assume there isn't a Pep Guardiola level of detail applied. :)

[backstothewall]

Well if all the players were only told they were playing an hour before the match how can they be properly prepared? Being debriefed on their role, how to handle a direct opponent, whose responsibility it is to pick a loose player from a short corner etc. What Trap called the leetle details.

I disagree with this. Every player in the squad should be prepared whether they are starting or not because things happen. People wake u on the day of a game with a dose of the flu or slip in the shower or get injured in the warmup etc. And things are even more unpredictable in the game itself. It's a different code but Kieran Marmion played on the wing for the first time in his life against England in the 6 Nations.

Naming the team late means our opposition don't know what they will face and allows us to put new players in without worrying about them being up all night with nerves the night before.

[DannyInvincible]

The goal was brain dead defensively. Turkey tried the same thing only a few mins earlier from the other side and it led to a chance they should have scored from. I liked that move actually, it's just a shame we were asleep. Didn't we concede at a crucial time of the game against Denmark from a short corner too? These are the details that matter.

We can be poor at dealing with tactical corners. The goal we conceded against Scotland in Glasgow in the qualifiers for the Euros immediately springs to mind. We also conceded from a corner at home to Austria last campaign. I'm nearly sure there have been other occasions too..?


Trap would pick a team sometimes a week before a game, and people complained that made us too predictable!

Surely there's a happy medium. A manager can give his players an idea of who'll be starting a day or two in advance and can prepare those players accordingly. There's no need to release the planned line-up to the media and you would hope that squad morale and discipline would be solid enough to ensure the information wouldn't be leaked.

[Stuttgart88]

I disagree with this. Every player in the squad should be prepared whether they are starting or not because things happen. People wake u on the day of a game with a dose of the flu or slip in the shower or get injured in the warmup etc. And things are even more unpredictable in the game itself. It's a different code but Kieran Marmion played on the wing for the first time in his life against England in the 6 Nations.

Naming the team late means our opposition don't know what they will face and allows us to put new players in without worrying about them being up all night with nerves the night before.

There's a big difference between publicly naming the team and telling the players who's playing though.

There was some confusion last year when Robbie Brady ran back to the bench just before kick-off and just after the team photos were taken to look at a piece of paper O'Neill was holding, in what appeared to be a last minute tactical / positional clarification. The more alarmist in our ranks here cited it as evidence of chaos but I was more relaxed about it. I'm less certain now.

It's noticeable that when O'Neill's merits are discussed by his players it's always that he's a great motivator but not hands-on in training. Personally I'd prefer a coach to have his players well drilled and briefed first and foremost.

[DeLorean]

We're can be poor at dealing with tactical corners. The goal we conceded against Scotland in Glasgow in the qualifiers for the Euros immediately springs to mind. We also conceded from a corner at home to Austria last campaign. I'm nearly sure there have been others occasions too..?

Denmark's first goal came from a short corner too I think, although Harry Arter being nutmegged was the bigger factor here, as opposed to being caught out a such.

[Stuttgart88]

Denmark's first goal came from a short corner too I think, although Harry Arter being nutmegged was the bigger factor here, as opposed to being caught out a such.

Wasn't Hendrick caught in no mans land too though, not knowing whether to stick or twist so to speak?

[backstothewall]

There's a big difference between publicly naming the team and telling the players who's playing though.

It usually adds up to the same thing. It inevitably gets out if the players know. Very few footballers go on to have careers in the intelligence services.



It's noticeable that when O'Neill's merits are discussed by his players it's always that he's a great motivator but not hands-on in training. Personally I'd prefer a coach to have his players well drilled and briefed first and foremost.

You are right about O'Neill's reputation but that's no different to Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger or Brian Clough (no surprise there). For me as long as someone is covering that it doesn't really matter, and given everything i know about him I find it very difficult to believe that Roy Keane is letting the 'lettle details' slip.