The myth of we're just "happy to be there"

[OwlsFan]

Can I myth on the head that is being perpetuated by Keane and also Fanning in the Sunday Indo and others on this site - namely that once we qualify, that's it and that we're just happy to be there for the craic and the ceol. Recently Keane repeated this on RTE News. Fact: Euro 88 - we're within 8 minutes of the Semis until robbed by an Offside goal (and incidentally Aldridge is pushed in the peno box a few minutes after). Italia 90: we don't go home after the first round but qualify for the quarter finals. USA 94: we don't go home after the first round and qualify for the next round and go out to a very strong Dutch team. Japan/Korea 2002: we don't go home after the first round and go out on penos only to Spain. We all know who went home early there. These are not the peformances of teams who are there only for the craic. We are totally different to many teams like Scotland who have never advanced to the 2nd stage of a competition. We go to win. We compete to our best ability and we enjoy it.

You don't have to be a demented lunatic that scowls at everyone to be a top player or have a hunger to win. Look at many of our best players like McGrath, Lawrenson, Robbie Keane, Duff, Brady, Whelan etc- all great players. All competitive. All wanting to win but able to do it without denegrating their fellow teammates or their nation.

So please: next time you glibly say Irish teams are just happy to be there remember the facts, not the myth.
[IP address logged]

[Donal81]

Good point but in USA 94, I have a feeling that plenty there thought that they could go home having beaten Italy in the first game. They might compete to the best of their ability but its the mentality which some might question.

[ColinR]

with a favourable draw one day we could reach the Semis or Quarters(again),which is the maximum all realists can expect/hope for.....

why set the bar so low, greece didn't.

can we not even hope of causing an upset???

[drinkfeckarse]

I'd go along with all that. Never can understand the "just making up the numbers" attitude of some footballers. Reminds me of the pity I feel for the 100-1 outsiders in the Grand National.


I think some, not all of our players have had this attitude of "happy to be here" whether we like it or not (McAteer for one) and I think if you have that attitude then you are almost beaten straight away.

Nobody's saying we didn't do well but who's to say we couldn't have done better if ALL of our players went out onto the pitch EXPECTING to win regardless of the opposition.

The difference between the 100/1 horse and the footballer is that the horse doesn't know that it's 100/1 now does it? It just goes out to run and try it's best and sometimes has it's day....

[pineapple stu]

Can we not even hope of causing an upset???
I don't think anyone can say that Ireland go into any particular game thinking they won't win. Anything else is silly. I think people put far too much stock in a team's (or the fans') relaxed attitude after they get knocked out - that's just the way we are. Once we get knocked out - as is almost always going to happen - there's no point kicking ourselves about what might have been (like the English) - might as well look back and enjoy what we've done.

[drinkfeckarse]

I don't think anyone can say that Ireland go into any particular game thinking they won't win


I think all footballers go into games knowing that they CAN win but it can kinda be half hearted without a lot of belief behind it.

Much better to have that focus and single mindedness of "we WILL win".

[NeilMcD]

Kevin Moran said that before we took the field against England in Euro 88 and that Ronnie Whelan said to him that we would be lucky if we could keep them down to one today. He could not believe that here was a guy that had won a European Cup but because he had a green jersey on felt lesser than those in white ones.

There is no doubting that preparation for games was not ideal, Six or Seven pints before the Game against Italy and Harrys Challenge etc. In addition, in the build up to the game against Italy a lot of the players were talking to the press saying things like it would not be so bad to go out against Italy in Rome. or if you were to pick a place to go out of the World cup, Rome against Italy would be it.

[blobbyblob]

Kevin Moran said that before we took the field against England in Euro 88 and that Ronnie Whelan said to him that we would be lucky if we could keep them down to one today. He could not believe that here was a guy that had won a European Cup but because he had a green jersey on felt lesser than those in white ones.

There is no doubting that preparation for games was not ideal, Six or Seven pints before the Game against Italy and Harrys Challenge etc. In addition, in the build up to the game against Italy a lot of the players were talking to the press saying things like it would not be so bad to go out against Italy in Rome. or if you were to pick a place to go out of the World cup, Rome against Italy would be it.


In fairness to Ronnie, he wasnt going in with rose tinted glasses. Although it gores me to say it, England could have had at least 1 had Packie Bonner not been as inspired as he was. Thankfully Packie didnt didnt put a foot, knee hand or head wrong.

[Eire06]

I am expecting to qualify for the world cup finals and I'm expecting us to go far, can even picture us lifting the World cup .. :D
To the point that I've arranged time off work for it already adding up 2 years holidays for the world cup finals and I will be booking my flights very soon ( as soon as they will let me book that far ahead)

I would expect no less from the team we have..

I do get stick for this saying I'm living in a dream world and I'm deluded.. But I don't think so, I have full faith in the team.. It buugs me when people say oh I'd be happy with a draw in this match ect. ect. A draw is only a consolation prize..

[Lionel Ritchie]

Good point but in USA 94, I have a feeling that plenty there thought that they could go home having beaten Italy in the first game. They might compete to the best of their ability but its the mentality which some might question.

I don't think people were happy for us to go home after Italy -though there was certainly a lot of rightful satisfaction at an old account being settled.
People were cognisant, however, of the fact that
(a) we had no top flight striker in our squad (our most prolific at that time being Tommy Coyne of Motherwell who collapsed after the Italy game from toxic shock caused by some fool making him guzzle cold water in an attempt to make him produce a sample for the dope testers)

and (b) the lunacy of the midday kick offs always meant a team from our climate would be hobbled after a single match of it.

[NeilMcD]

I think before a game or a tournament you should expect to win it and prepare as if you are going to win it Do everthing to the best of your abilty and that includes the backroom staff etc. However I will say that if you get a draw from an away match and you have not played well there is a time when you can say you are satisfied with the draw, but I think this should only be the case after the game. Sometimes managers or players say it before a game and that tends to bug me too. However I can fully understand a manager coming out after a game that his team have not played well in and saying he was satisfied with a draw

[stojkovic]

It comes from the top. Charlton and McCarthey were 'just happy to be there'.

Euro88
After luckily beating England we found ourselves with a chance of SFs. We dominated USSR in the best performance of any Irish team IMO only to draw and then went out to the Dutch. We enjoyed the tournament as it was the first time and some probably thought the last tiem we'd qualify. I was in Stuttgart and I witnessed 60yo men openly crying after the game as they had waited so long for this.
Italia90
Jack Charlton was like a one-man circus in this World Cup and kept the journos happy with a few rants and quotes and cigar smoking nonsense. We did well (four draws !!!) but maybe could have done better had we beaten Egypt and avoided playing the Italians.
USA94
More nonsense from Charlton. While he misses his flight back from Washington and slept on a bench in the airport (tight fcuker) Setters is making a ****** of training. Over two hours in the heat. It was Townsend (as captain) and not Keane who took the players off the training pitch that day. Yes the heat and lack of a striker hindered us but had we beaten Norway we could have avoided the Dutch and Orlando. As winners we would have stayed in NY. Jack stated that he hated the WC and the USA and FIFA and all that and that is not good way of preparing your players. Players who had to put their empty suitcases in the hallway because their hotel rooms were so small.
Saipan02
It's my World Cup and I'm going to enjoy it and no-one is gonna spoil it on me - Mick McCarthy. Nuff said.

We have over the years turned it on and were capable of beating anyone on our day but bad management who know that the Irish back home will have a party win lose or draw lost sight of why we were there and what we could have achieved.

The best Irish squad that we would have had was for Euro92 when we failed to qualify. We would have won that tournament. We lost because we threw away a 3-1 lead in Poland and our great manager said "A draw is sometimes better than a win".

At least our current manager has a winning mentality even if it is sometimes a "win-ugly" one.

[Green Tribe]

I am expecting to qualify for the world cup finals and I'm expecting us to go far, can even picture us lifting the World cup .. :D
To the point that I've arranged time off work for it already adding up 2 years holidays for the world cup finals and I will be booking my flights very soon ( as soon as they will let me book that far ahead)

I would expect no less from the team we have..

I do get stick for this saying I'm living in a dream world and I'm deluded.. But I don't think so, I have full faith in the team.. It buugs me when people say oh I'd be happy with a draw in this match ect. ect. A draw is only a consolation prize..

Good girl, that's the spirit, i will go for the whole month, will be finishing uni that may, so perfect timing :D My cousin is getting married on a saturday when one of the group games will be played, what's betting it will be an Ireland game?! Selfish, getting married during the world cup! :rolleyes: ;) , if i can i will fly home for the day, but not if ireland is playing, sorry cousin!!!

[Eire06]

if "the trouble's" of Saipan02 did one think for us it highlight the shambles the FAI were and the poor managment and organisational skills we had..

Hopefully they have learned from the mistakes and they will approach this WC like professionals and show the world that we have a top class team to be feared and not a happy go lucky team of boosers and messers.....

[Eire06]

Good girl, that's the spirit, i will go for the whole month, will be finishing uni that may, so perfect timing :D My cousin is getting married on a saturday when one of the group games will be played, what's betting it will be an Ireland game?! Selfish, getting married during the world cup! :rolleyes: ;) , if i can i will fly home for the day, but not if ireland is playing, sorry cousin!!!
My cousin is gettin married on one of the group dates too and half our family are going to Germany( Including her brother and Father :eek: ).. she's not impressed we just realised and were trying to get her to change the date.. very stubbern though :mad:

[Green Tribe]

Could be difficult to change date, u know what these receptions venues and churches are like for weddings, are always booked at least a year in advance, she could get married in germany :eek: ;) :D

[Eire06]

Could be difficult to change date, u know what these receptions venues and churches are like for weddings, are always booked at least a year in advance, she could get married in germany :eek: ;) :D
he he can't see that happening.. She only got engaged last month so hopfully it won't be too much bother..
Her father is going mad..

[Green Tribe]

heh he, does her fiance not want to go to the world cup? SUrely they could get him to persuade her......... :D

[thejollyrodger]

i think the players always wanted to win each match, but Roy's problem was the way we went about it. We didnt have any real organisation and planning. The FAI were flying the blazers over in first class while it had the squad all crammed up in economy class. Stuff like that. Other stuff like not having coaches to cover diet, a technical coach, proper soccer balls, blah blah etc etc.

In the past it was always a case of what could have been instead of delivering on wins ! Genesis wraps up a lot of all that.

The way Eddie O Sullivan the rugby coach prepares was something sadly lacking in previous soccer campaigns. But the national phyche still isnt fully comfortable with being the favourites. Were not really playing at our best when were odds on to win.

Well the purpose of this rant, is that Ireland still has to progress in terms of organistion and preperation. We should be putting teams like Isreal and Switzerland away at half time. Winning is a habit. The country should expect a lot more than just to be there.

We should top our group and at least make it to the quarter finals or even semi's of the W.C. We have a decent enough squad, the only real problem is sticking the chances away.

[OwlsFan]

A lot of misquotes or misinterpretations of quotes there. What is wrong with Mick Mc saying that he was going to enjoy the World Cup ? You seem to equate "enjoyment" with "losing". On the contrary - happy squads succeed more often that in-fighting or unhappy squads. You can enjoy something with a 100% commitment to win.

Saipan is only highlighted because of Keane's rants. The rest of the arrangements for the Korea/Japan trip were near perfect.

Someone said "We have over the years turned it on and were capable of beating anyone on our day but bad management who know that the Irish back home will have a party win lose or draw lost sight of why we were there and what we could have achieved". So called "bad management" got us to 3 World Cups and in each case we qualified for the next round and in Euro 88 were 7 minutes away from the semis. The team of USA 94 was at the end of its days with no striker of international class. Yet we still beat Italy. It's so easy to say if and but and maybe - we have done fantastically well for a country where soccer is very much a second choice sport. The facts show we were not there just for the craic - we were there to compete and get as far as we could.

As for Brian Kerr being a winner - good luck to him but he is not a winner (yet) with the Senior team. For both the Basel and Paris games he picked negative teams (Finnan playing on the right). He has yet to beat one of our major rivals either in the last group or this (draw and loss vs Swiss, draw vs Russians and draw in Paris). His major tests are to come in our two home games and in the forthcoming game away to the Israel. Possibly a win was there for us in Paris if we had been a bit more adventurous but if, maybe etc etc. However, we don't do away wins in tournaments against major opposition. Scotland is my only memory of a major win away so I was happy with the 1pt in Paris. Fingers crossed for the rest.

[ColinR]

A lot of misquotes or misinterpretations of quotes there. What is wrong with Mick Mc saying that he was going to enjoy the World Cup ? You seem to equate "enjoyment" with "losing". On the contrary - happy squads succeed more often that in-fighting or unhappy squads. You can enjoy something with a 100% commitment to win.


i remember seeing mc carthy making that exact statement on football focus, just before the team flew out, and i just sounded like the wrong thing to say, and whether he meant it or not, he came across as someone with very limited ambitions for his next few weeks.

[byrnie20]

Doesn't anyone think Ireland can win the 2010 World cup ?

[Green Tribe]

Doesn't anyone think Ireland can win the 2010 World cup ?

2010 and 2006, 2 in a row hee hee ;) south africa, isn't it in 2010? that would be great, looks an amazing, beautiful country and at last a world cup in africa :D

[thejollyrodger]

going out to a major championship, ahh lets enjoy it lads. err.... more like we want to win!! from the manager please !! Sven would be shot with a comment like that.

Yes we can win the W.C. Since its not as tightly contested as it once was. Soccer has too much money through it and went down the tubes. The only real meaningful competition left is the Champions League.

[byrnie20]

Yeah it is in South Africa, I think 2006 maybe to soon but you never know,by 2010 the yougsters we have coming through will be ready

[Cowboy]

We won't win the World Cup next year(& probably never will),but as long as we give all our best,stretch every sinew & all those other cliches,with a favourable draw one day we could reach the Semis or Quarters(again),which is the maximum all realists can expect/hope for.....

I disagree strongly, I thought the last world cup was very poor in terms of quality and may have been within our reach had the whole saipan thing not happened. There is no reason why we cannot win a world cup.

[Slash/ED]

we don't go home after the first round and go out on penos only to Spain. We all know who went home early there.

And the fact that the players and management celebrated that fact is exactly what annoys people.

Did germany go in with the mentality of if they go out to Spain sure that's grand? No, and there's no way individually their squad was that much better than ours. This was the so called worst German team of all time and yet they made the final, the difference is in their mentality. They didn't treat the world cup as a bleedin' **** up.

Thankfully I think with the Kerr era we seem to have a much more professional attitude and it stand us in good stead.

[Cowboy]

well if you are that certain about the future why have you not won the lottery ?
with this attitude you have us beat before we even start and i really dont know how you can be so certain after the poor performaces of the teams in the last world cup.


Not a chance.......we just dont have the quality of strength-in-depth(& many parochial types moan whenever anyone with just a distant relation is mentioned!),which is a population issue.
& cultural.......in a small country....the distractions of rugby & GAA take players out of the potential pool.If we had 10 world-class players & 8 played in every game maybe?

Realistically,the Euros could be a target.....as I said earlier,I'd always prefer to get to the WCF's.......& happy for us to 'make up the nos.'! :cool:

[pineapple stu]

And the fact that the players and management celebrated that fact is exactly what annoys people.
I disagree. The fact that the team looked back with pride at its achievements - top 16 in the world for a small country with soccer as its third sport is being overlooked far too much - doesn't mean that they players weren't gutted that they went out. You saw the players after the match - in tears most of them. Not celebrating from what I saw. I much prefer the Irish attitude of trying 100% but not beating ourselves up over losing over the English attitude of "40 years of hurt" and always finding a scapegoat and then building up stupid amounts of pressure and hype on the next tournament. Unfortunately, these days it's almost like we should be embarrassed to be Irish and do things the way we do them... :(

[OwlsFan]

I repeat: you can go out to enjoy something and play to win. Winning is much more enjoyable than losing.

I remember the stick Ally McLeod got when he boasted Scotland were off to win the World Cup and they had a huge party of a send off. As usual (unlike us) they came home after the first round.

I have never seen an Irish team give anything but it's best at tournaments and to try and win. I repeat on each occasion they've got through to the next round. Hardly the performances of a load of boozers. We can take defeat with dignity - doesn't mean we don't want to win. Big difference there. I will never forget the hurt Mick Mc felt when we lost the play-off in Brussels.

As for us winning the World Cup, which of the non major footballing nations has won the World Cup in recent years. Answer none. We have kicked in recent years way above our weight. We have many journey men in our teams and always have. It is the team spirit which carries us through time and time again aided by 4/5 good players. Other than Given, Duff and Keane (Saipan), most of the other players wouldn't get on the subs bench of other nations. We go to play as hard as possible, give it our best shot but to create fanciful expectations of winning the World Cup is a joke. It's easy to say "We're going to win the World Cup" and then to portray anyone who disagrees as a party head or loser but it's just talk. I'd love us to win it but it would be a miracle if we did - and don't point to Greece. World Cup is different to Euros like chalk is to cheese.

[Slash/ED]

Other than Given, Duff and Keane (Saipan), most of the other players wouldn't get on the subs bench of other nations.

Sorry but that's ********, do you really not think Finnan, Carr, Reid and Keane eile would get on the bench of other nations?

Not expect to win a world cup but that should be our aim, and to look back with pride over a tournament where we managed to beat world superheavyweight Saudi Arabia and drew and lost some other games against some average teams is very very stupid imo

[stojkovic]

A lot of misquotes or misinterpretations of quotes there. The team of USA 94 was at the end of its days with no striker of international class.
Babb - 23
Gary Kelly - 19
McAteer - 23
Roy Keane - 23
Irwin - 26
Staunton - 24
Phelan - 29/30
Sheridan - 30/31

Only McGrath (centrehalf in FIFA team of WC), Houghton and Townsend were 'at the end of their days' and Houghton played in Brussells 18 months later.

Misquotes and misinterpretations indeed.

[Eire06]

Its the winning that matters not the taking part ;) :D

[pineapple stu]

Only McGrath (centrehalf in FIFA team of WC), Houghton and Townsend were 'at the end of their days' and Houghton played in Brussells 18 months later.
What about Bonner? Coyne? Moran? Aldridge? Whelan? Plenty of old players.

Brussels was '97 - three years later, not 18 months.

[pineapple stu]

Not expect to win a world cup but that should be our aim, and to look back with pride over a tournament where we managed to beat world superheavyweight Saudi Arabia and drew and lost some other games against some average teams is very very stupid imo
You're mixing expectations for the World Cup beforehand and what we draw from the World Cup afterwards. I can't see how anyone could say that we didn't go out to beat Spain, or that we didn't think we could do it. If we didn't think we could do it, we wouldn't have kept on right till the injury-time equaliser.

But after you get knocked out, what's the point in brooding eternally about being knocked out? You said that the players and management celebrated losing to Spain, yet they were clearly all in tears and were gutted. Are you just going to let this blatant contradiction go?

You also say the Germans' mentality is better than ours, again on the basis that we can appreciate what we've done after the event. Nothing matters after the event - it's our mentality during the event that counts, and I think we've shown time and time again that ours is up there with the best.

[thejollyrodger]

FFS. All our results to date have been through an FA that is probably one of the most corrupt and badly managed in the world. We never had a decent pool of players to pick from. We have never trained players through any sort of technical training regime. Even players Roy keane's age were brought through without any idea about formations !!

Basically in the past, we just turned up on the day and did very well.

Soccer was never really a proper sport in this country till 1990. We never had a proper soccer manager until 200?(kerr). And its still not reached its full potential.

International soccer is in decline from what it was. In the hay day, there was magnificant teams from brasil, Germany, Holland, Italy. A lot of which, now are sh1te in comparision. A lot of teams like Spain, holland etc are going to tournaments trying to find a face saving way of leaving the competition.

The standard at Portugal 2004 was very poor to be honest. Very few of the teams wanted to really play and there was A LOT of ordinary teams there. We would have done very well if we qualified.

Its a lot easier to get to the World Cup semi finals that the finals of the Champions League (in a good year,not last year) IMO. So all those ney sayers are a blast from the past.

We have a very decent first 11 at the moment. It just needs a few tweaks here and there and were flying. We should be aiming to top the group for the WCQ's and aim for the quarterfinals/semi finals and that isnt talking sh1te.

[wws]

The standard at Portugal 2004 was very poor to be honest. Very few of the teams wanted to really play and there was A LOT of ordinary teams there. We would have done very well if we qualified. .

groundless. we didnt qualify cause one of those **** teams beat us home and away - we had no right to be there - and as such we're no better than any of them that it - in fact it makes us worse

Ireland - along with Norway - one of the WORST teams in Italia 90 football wise. Fact!
USA - one decent game v Italy and that was the height of it
Korea/Japan - knocked out by the world cups perrenial **** "big" country = spain


awe inspiring record

[cullenswood]

I think the vast majority of the players go to the tournaments trying to win every game they can. Most of the celebrating when we get knocked out is done at home by the "leprechaun type" fans who insist on the Phoenix Park being used to give the players a big party

[OwlsFan]

do you really not think Finnan, Carr, Reid and Keane eile would get on the bench of other nations?

Hmmm. Finnan and Keane (Rob) are in and out of their teams. Reid has been playing 1st Division football up to recently. Carr is just back from a long injury. We think they're great because they play for us and, as previously indicated, raise their game when they don the green jersey (not just there for the craic and to be beaten). Premiership managers don't seem to agree with our assessments so I'm not sure they'll get on the benches of the top foreign international teams.

Jollyroger says we never had a proper manager until Kerr. Please - get a grip. Charlton had been a success as a league manager in the UK. He was also a World Cup medal winner. He turned round an Irish team that had finished last in its group in the qualifiers for the 1986 World Cup to a team that was eventually rated 6th in the World!! My God, what more do you guys want ? Mick McCarthy seems to know how to manage as well - Sunderland 2nd in the Championship. John Giles was also our manager once - he had also done well as a manager in the UK. Jollyroger says the players had no idea of formations - Jack's team was one of the most regimented teams there ever has been. Every player knew the formation and knew their job in it.

This sort of revisionist nonsense makes me mad :mad:

[thejollyrodger]

groundless. we didnt qualify cause one of those **** teams beat us home and away - we had no right to be there - and as such we're no better than any of them that it - in fact it makes us worse

Err we didnt qualify for Portugal because the team was a mess after Saipain. Every match was always about Roy Keane blah blah and not about soccer. Our defence was the worst EVER and thats something we always get right.
We let in 4 goals FFS against the Ruskies so there was something seriously wrong.

Were 12th best team in the world at the moment. I imagine we will be under 10th once we qualify for Germany. That makes us a great deal better than the rest of them.

The Czech Republic missed out on the last European championships yet everyone was saying that they should have been there. Soccer is a funny old game:)



Ireland - along with Norway - one of the WORST teams in Italia 90 football wise. Fact!
USA - one decent game v Italy and that was the height of it
Korea/Japan - knocked out by the world cups perrenial **** "big" country = spain

Like I said, soccer has never taken off until 1990. We just had a few lads making up the numbers and flying the flag. They werent professionals, they were just there for the beer and craic.

In 1994, everyone knew our game plan. Soccer had moved on, and we hadnt. The players we had then were all just about to retire. All sport evolves, we totally transformed the way we played after that final. It was just a wake up call to the public that we need to actually have a soccer programme.

I agree with you about our technical abilty back then. It was dreadfull stuff. Just kick it long. Things are a lot different now though. Reid,Duff,Mc Geady, Robb Keane,Kilbane are all technially very good. All of them came through the youth system. We have made great progress in the last 10 years.

As for the Spain match. Its a match we should have won. I cant belive Robbie didnt take the first peno instead of hearte. Peno's are a 50/50 anyway but we had the spanish beaten all over the pitch, we just lacked that cutting edge up front. We would turn Spain over now though.

Another point, is that winning at soccer is about keeping things tight at the back and scoring 1 or 2 up front. You can do all the fancy flights like a clown but that wont win you nothing. I.E Chelsea vs Barca. Ronaldoihno might look great when he is in a empty pitch but that counts for jack when you start closing him down. I'd rather be Chelsea and win than Barca and look like a clown.

[thejollyrodger]

Charlton had been a success as a league manager in the UK........
Mick McCarthy seems to know how to manage as well - Sunderland 2nd in the Championship.........John Giles was also our manager once - he had also done well as a manager in the UK. Jollyroger says the players had no idea of formations - Jack's team was one of the most regimented teams there ever has been. Every player knew the formation and knew their job in it.

Charlton hadnt a clue about any of the players ability, everyone knew where to play and what to do because it was brutally simply.

Kick ball long into peno area, Head ball into net. Always kick ball forward !! He got results with his long ball but it was never proper football.

Mc Carthy and his team are grafters. He belongs somewhere between the priemer divison fighting relegation and top of the championship fighting for it. He does very well but he is not a winner.

Johnny Giles will be the first to tell you that he isnt cut out for management.

A good player doesnt make a good manager ! Kerr did a magnificant job at underage at European level. HE HAS WON THINGS. Also, he doesnt try to put Duff up front alongside Keane, when its clearly wrong. He brings players like Kavanagh in (who Mc Carthy or Charlton would never) to do a job for us. He moves Kilbane into the center and balances the whole of midfield out for us.

Mc Carthy could never get it right :rolleyes:

[NeilMcD]

Did Barca not win the last match 2-1 and are they not top of the league in Spain. Did Ronaldinhio not win a World Cup in 2002. I do not think he is a clown but his a very effective footballer who also entertains in the same mould as Zidane and Maradona but has not reached the levels that the two of them reached.


I agree with a lot of your post otherwise. I would rather Barcelona any day of the week. I think the ideal is to win with flair which is what they do. Hope they do it tonight.

[Macy]

FFS. All our results to date have been through an FA that is probably one of the most corrupt and badly managed in the world.
You're having a laugh if you think our association is one of the most corrupt and badly managed in the world. Maybe one of the worst in western europe admittedly....

On the training, the nation as a whole has to take responsibility - only follow foreign teams, send our youngsters abroad from a young age, don't support domestic football to allow the system to develop here with academy's etc....

Personally don't think we've done any better than alright in the major tournaments. Certainly nothing to celebrate.

[stojkovic]

groundless. we didnt qualify cause one of those **** teams beat us home and away - we had no right to be there - and as such we're no better than any of them that it - in fact it makes us worse

Ireland - along with Norway - one of the WORST teams in Italia 90 football wise. Fact!
USA - one decent game v Italy and that was the height of it
Korea/Japan - knocked out by the world cups perrenial **** "big" country = spain


awe inspiring record
Norway didnt qualify in 1990.

[OwlsFan]

I think he probably mean Norway in USA '94.

"Charlton hadn't a clue about the players' abilities "- 6th in the World ratings from around 90th in eight years. I suspect he must have known something.

As to our style of play - I couldn't care less how we play so long as we're successful.

[ColinR]

Like I said, soccer has never taken off until 1990. We just had a few lads making up the numbers and flying the flag. They werent professionals, they were just there for the beer and craic.


just out of interest how old are you??

i grew up in the eighties made into football, pretty much like all kids around us, following the hype of division one in england. irish international crowds were down because the team was doing poorly at the time 86 qualifiers, but get a dvd of irish great matches etc., see the crowds there when we beat france in lansdowne, russia in dalymount etc. - football wasn't just introduced to ireland in 1990, its always been here, and its always been big. 1988 & 1990 just added more hype to it. the likes of brady stapleton, moran, giles, daly, givens etc., they were not just 'there for the beer and craic'

[stojkovic]

just out of interest how old are you??

i grew up in the eighties made into football, pretty much like all kids around us, following the hype of division one in england. irish international crowds were down because the team was doing poorly at the time 86 qualifiers, but get a dvd of irish great matches etc., see the crowds there when we beat france in lansdowne, russia in dalymount etc. - football wasn't just introduced to ireland in 1990, its always been here, and its always been big. 1988 & 1990 just added more hype to it. the likes of brady stapleton, moran, giles, daly, givens etc., they were not just 'there for the beer and craic'
Seconded.

[thejollyrodger]

Did Barca not win the last match 2-1 and are they not top of the league in Spain. .........I would rather Barcelona any day of the week. I think the ideal is to win with flair which is what they do. Hope they do it tonight.

Chelsea will win , if not, Ill eat my hat and you can rub it in tomorrow.

Im 100% certain that Chelsea will win.

Soccer was sold EN MASS to the Irish public at Italy '90, but we have always done very well. We were not very consistent and poor away from home but of course Im not writing off the achievements of the 80's and know about all the great games and '88.

[wws]

Norway didnt qualify in 1990.

Good God ure right! I miss Dolan related banter! His audios on the ccfc.ie are pure David Brent! This 'why cant ireland beat the swiss' vibe is lame in comparison.

[Slash/ED]

But after you get knocked out, what's the point in brooding eternally about being knocked out? You said that the players and management celebrated losing to Spain, yet they were clearly all in tears and were gutted. Are you just going to let this blatant contradiction go?

No, not after the match directly but later like in the cringeworthy Joe Duffy episode they were acting like heroes for loseing ffs. McAteers comments in his recent interview summed the mentality up.


You also say the Germans' mentality is better than ours, again on the basis that we can appreciate what we've done after the event. Nothing matters after the event - it's our mentality during the event that counts, and I think we've shown time and time again that ours is up there with the best.

If our mentality was up there with the best we'd have more than three (one on penaltys) in the world cup, it's not just to do with working hard and battling it's to do with belief and we've lacked it in the past.


Premiership managers don't seem to agree with our assessments so I'm not sure they'll get on the benches of the top foreign international teams.

You're making thigns up here, Finnan 'in and out' of the Liverpool side, eh? And what has Carr recently coming back from an injury got to do with his standing as an international footballer? :confused: