Retirements

[pineapple stu]

So what can we expect? 22 months till our next competitive game, if you count the Nations League as only pseudo-competitive.

O'Shea anyway; talked out of it 18 months ago; not getting a look in now.

Hoolahan probably. 36 by the end of the season.

Walters? Just gone 34 and injured.

Daryl Murphy? 35 by May, in the team because of Long's loss of form and didn't did anything the last three games. Not entirely his fault of course.

Whelan? 34 in January. Derided but consistent, trusted (until recently) and experienced.

Westwood? What's the point for him any more?

How to replace all in the squad if worst comes to worst? Something like

Randolph
Coleman---Clark---Duffy---Brady
McClean---McCarthy---Hendrick---Arter--- O'Dowda
Long

Not sure if that midfield works though.

Subs then

Elliot
Christie---Keogh---Long/Boyle---Doherty
McGeady---Meyler---Hourihane---O'Kane---Horgan
Maguire

That's a very weak second XI. There's obviously others - Judge, Hogan, Egan, Rice, Scannell, Kelly, maybe Benson - but it's getting to be very slim pickings. The jury is very much out on some of the players named too (Long has 30 games for Burnley in 8 years for example)

But we'll surely have an inexperienced squad for the next qualifiers.

Thoughts?

[liamoo11]

So what can we expect? 22 months till our next competitive game, if you count the Nations League as only pseudo-competitive.

O'Shea anyway; talked out of it 18 months ago; not getting a look in now.

Hoolahan probably. 36 by the end of the season.

Walters? Just gone 34 and injured.

Daryl Murphy? 35 by May, in the team because of Long's loss of form and didn't did anything the last three games. Not entirely his fault of course.

Whelan? 34 in January. Derided but consistent, trusted (until recently) and experienced.

Westwood? What's the point for him any more?

How to replace all in the squad if worst comes to worst? Something like

Randolph
Coleman---Clark---Duffy---Brady
McClean---McCarthy---Hendrick---Arter--- O'Dowda
Long

Not sure if that midfield works though.

Subs then

Elliot
Christie---Keogh---Long/Boyle---Doherty
McGeady---Meyler---Hourihane---O'Kane---Horgan
Maguire

That's a very weak second XI. There's obviously others - Judge, Hogan, Egan, Rice, Scannell, Kelly, maybe Benson - but it's getting to be very slim pickings. The jury is very much out on some of the players named too (Long has 30 games for Burnley in 8 years for example)

But we'll surely have an inexperienced squad for the next qualifiers.

Thoughts?

Who are Kelly and Benson? Think mcgeady will go as well he went straight down tunnel at end which is bad form we were all sick but still stayed to clap team off mcgeady should have stayed on pitch and clapped fans.

[pineapple stu]

Liam Kelly, midfielder at Reading. Broke into their first team last season.

Robbie Benson, attacking mid at Dundalk; currently linked with a move cross-channel a la Horgan. Put him in because partly I'm biased and partly we really don't have anyone coming through

[brine3]

Martin O'Neill turned 65 this year.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Terrible shame for some decent players to end their account in this manner. Walters might keep going for one more campaign.

[Snoop Drog]

22 months till our next competitive game

16 month or so?? Doesn't qualification start in March 2019?

[samhaydenjr]

I didn't realise that Euro 2020 qualifiers weren't due to start until March 2019, which gives us a little bit more time to get reinforcements bedded in - so here's where we'll probably stand by then:

Goalkeepers: Current options will likely still be available - Elliot should probably get a run in friendlies as he is our only Premier League first choice keeper. Ian Lawlor might put himself into the frame if he can get into The Championship next season. For our other young keepers it might be a bit soon but it's worth watching to see if they can get decent loan moves or get into their respective first-team squads - Kieran O'Hara, Caoimhin Kelleher, Liam Bossin and Conor O'Malley

Defenders - O'Shea will surely retire, but at least we have two Premier League Central defenders in there already. Declan Rice, Matt Doherty and maybe Conor O'Shaughnessy should be blooded in during the coming months. If Andy Boyle and Kevin O'Connor can maintain their places at Preston, they should get some time, as should another late-bloomer, Enda Stevens, who is now playing regularly for high-flying Sheffield united. Corey O'Keeffe has been close to the Birmingham first team so he could possible break through by the end of this season. And of course, Seamus Coleman will be back from injury.

Midfielders - Yes, Hoolahan will retire - it's ridiculous for Richard Sadlier to pin our hopes on getting him to play for another campaign; Whelan will also likely go. O'Dowda is already settled in; Hourihane, Horgan, Browne, Judge and O'Kane are the most experienced (and most immediate) options. Liam Kelly should be given a chance in upcoming friendlies. Youngsters who could put themselves in the frame over the next sixteen months would include Cullen, Ronan, Barrett, Byrne, Lenihan, Manning, Shodipo, Doyle-Hayes and Molumby

Forwards - this is definitely the problem area, with Doyle already gone and Murphy and Walters almost certain to retire also. And six months ago it was looking like a looming crisis. Since then, fortunately, Maguire has transitioned successfully to The Championship, Hogan has declared for us, McGoldrick has found his form again and even Aiden o'Brien is now a serious option. We have a lot of exciting young strikers at underage level but they might take another couple of years to come through. There are, however, a few who are within sight of their respective first teams and could break through next season (although it's probably an outside chance at this point) - Connolly at Brighton, McDonagh at Forest, Grego-Cox at QPR, Hale at Birmingham. So it is going to be a difficult transition but hopefully we'll have enough firepower to qualify for a 24-team Euro 2020 and by the next World Cup rolls around we'll have a much stronger forward line

[pineapple stu]

16 month or so?? Doesn't qualification start in March 2019?
You're right; sorry. I thought it was Sept 19-Mar 20 for some reason. (If they're compressing the calendar, I think it makes sense to get rid of the 8 month gap between the end of qualifying and the start of the finals)

But it's the Nations League play-offs in Mar 20.

Still a longer pre-season than normal.

[Olé Olé]

I didn't realise that Euro 2020 qualifiers weren't due to start until March 2019, which gives us a little bit more time to get reinforcements bedded in - so here's where we'll probably stand by then:

Goalkeepers: Current options will likely still be available - Elliot should probably get a run in friendlies as he is our only Premier League first choice keeper. Ian Lawlor might put himself into the frame if he can get into The Championship next season. For our other young keepers it might be a bit soon but it's worth watching to see if they can get decent loan moves or get into their respective first-team squads - Kieran O'Hara, Caoimhin Kelleher, Liam Bossin and Conor O'Malley

Defenders - O'Shea will surely retire, but at least we have two Premier League Central defenders in there already. Declan Rice, Matt Doherty and maybe Conor O'Shaughnessy should be blooded in during the coming months. If Andy Boyle and Kevin O'Connor can maintain their places at Preston, they should get some time, as should another late-bloomer, Enda Stevens, who is now playing regularly for high-flying Sheffield united. Corey O'Keeffe has been close to the Birmingham first team so he could possible break through by the end of this season. And of course, Seamus Coleman will be back from injury.

Midfielders - Yes, Hoolahan will retire - it's ridiculous for Richard Sadlier to pin our hopes on getting him to play for another campaign; Whelan will also likely go. O'Dowda is already settled in; Hourihane, Horgan, Browne, Judge and O'Kane are the most experienced (and most immediate) options. Liam Kelly should be given a chance in upcoming friendlies. Youngsters who could put themselves in the frame over the next sixteen months would include Cullen, Ronan, Barrett, Byrne, Lenihan, Manning, Shodipo, Doyle-Hayes and Molumby

Forwards - this is definitely the problem area, with Doyle already gone and Murphy and Walters almost certain to retire also. And six months ago it was looking like a looming crisis. Since then, fortunately, Maguire has transitioned successfully to The Championship, Hogan has declared for us, McGoldrick has found his form again and even Aiden o'Brien is now a serious option. We have a lot of exciting young strikers at underage level but they might take another couple of years to come through. There are, however, a few who are within sight of their respective first teams and could break through next season (although it's probably an outside chance at this point) - Connolly at Brighton, McDonagh at Forest, Grego-Cox at QPR, Hale at Birmingham. So it is going to be a difficult transition but hopefully we'll have enough firepower to qualify for a 24-team Euro 2020 and by the next World Cup rolls around we'll have a much stronger forward line

Agree on all the above. In defence and midfield we have a few options that are well down the tracks or on the cusp of the road to progression into our squad. Clearly, the striker situation is the one where there aren't many clear options coming on the horizon. The ones you mentioned may be a bit off. It is very hard to know in relation to Hogan and O'Brien. Hogan probably needs to move. O'Brien needs more games up front. Seani has all out hopes up and hopefully delivers.

A lot of Championship players in there though. It will be interesting to see who can do something the PL.

[Olé Olé]

One thing I would say is that the entire starting line up last night will be around for the next campaign, potentially Murphy aside. And we have a long-standing issue up front anyway. So I don't think retirements impact the narrative here all that much. I think bringing through a couple of more players to add guile and goals is much more important. I know we conceded 5 last night but I'm just writing that off against the Goodwill our defence has accumulated.

[backstothewall]

I know we conceded 5 last night but I'm just writing that off against the Goodwill our defence has accumulated.

You're right. Last night was an omnishambles. They lost the head but as a rule we have a good defence.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm 50 now and am calling it a day.

[IsMiseSean]

I'm 50 now and am calling it a day.

Ha, I came in to announce my international retirement. :)

[KrisLetang]

After these awful playoffs that saw International football continue slowly bleeding to death is anyone excited about the World Cup at all? Honestly I might not watch one second.

[Nugget]

After these awful playoffs that saw International football continue slowly bleeding to death is anyone excited about the World Cup at all? Honestly I might not watch one second.
Give it time, the enthusiasm will return. I actually started my research on getting over for a game today.

[backstothewall]

After these awful playoffs that saw International football continue slowly bleeding to death is anyone excited about the World Cup at all? Honestly I might not watch one second.

I'll watch every second. The World Cup is the greatest event in sport. That's why last night hurts so badly.

[KrisLetang]

Well we do have the sanity around New Zealand and Peru to get back in the mood of high quality soccer:

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/new-zealand-face-peruvian-shamans-and-malicious-spirits-in-world-cup-qualifier/news-story/adfeb70087e07d4b96612490d738ae1e

[KrisLetang]

Give it time, the enthusiasm will return. I actually started my research on getting over for a game today.

You're going to fly to Russia for one game?

[seanfhear]

After these awful playoffs that saw International football continue slowly bleeding to death is anyone excited about the World Cup at all? Honestly I might not watch one second.Is there any rule changes that could be brought in to make football a more attacking game .

Football ( particularly international football and the likes of Mourinho ) is way to defensive at the moment . If it takes a few subtle rule change to make for more attacking football then so be it .

[KrisLetang]

I could not agree more! Horrible play is rewarded!

[Razors left peg]

I might be remembering this wrong so feel free to correct me. When Jack Charlton left we were left with a very old team with a lot of retirements when Mick took charge. Didn't he pick young players with little club experience at the time and let them use International football to help them develop. I'm thinking about Shay Given in particular.

I just feel that we should look to do something similar now. Get the likes of Liam Kelly, Declan Rice etc into the team and build from scratch playing a little bit of football and not bombard players with the idea that they are all crap so have to hoof as much as possible.

[IsMiseSean]

I might be remembering this wrong so feel free to correct me. When Jack Charlton left we were left with a very old team with a lot of retirements when Mick took charge. Didn't he pick young players with little club experience at the time and let them use International football to help them develop. I'm thinking about Shay Given in particular.

I just feel that we should look to do something similar now. Get the likes of Liam Kelly, Declan Rice etc into the team and build from scratch playing a little bit of football and not bombard players with the idea that they are all crap so have to hoof as much as possible.

Totally agree, and O'Neill isn't the man to be handed that task.

I think MON might walk when/if the retirements come rolling in.

[CraftyToePoke]

I might be remembering this wrong so feel free to correct me. When Jack Charlton left we were left with a very old team with a lot of retirements when Mick took charge. Didn't he pick young players with little club experience at the time and let them use International football to help them develop.

He did yeah, I remember his early squads and not even knowing the clubs some of the lads were at, (not as www led those days), some swam, a lot didn't, but it had to be done at the time & it did emerge a squad that served us for a good long while, some till recently enough.

[Razors left peg]

Id much rather do that than constant band aids by having the likes of Shane Long and Daryl Murphy up front!
He did yeah, I remember his early squads and not even knowing the clubs some of the lads were at, (not as www led those days), some swam, a lot didn't, but it had to be done at the time & it did emerge a squad that served us for a good long while, some till recently enough.

[seanfhear]

I’d say O ‘Neill is too set in his ways . He is perhaps stranded in his style of football of 15 / 20 years ago .

Time and Tide waits for no man .

[Olé Olé]

I would love to see Stephen Kenny take over.

[BonnieShels]

Kenny to take over with Kerr upstairs...

[Nugget]

You're going to fly to Russia for one game?
Considering it. If I book it now it's not that expensive.

[gastric]

Lads, reality will bite. I've said it before and I will say it again, Delaney has been bitten by risky choices, he will err on the conservative side in any choice made. The idea of an experienced coach who will take the heat off him when the going gets tough is ideal for him as is occurring now, with O'Neill centre stage, and no mention of the wily John.

[KrisLetang]

Martin O'Neill to still managed Ireland.
Martin O'Neill to resigned from Ireland.

Which will it be? And when will we know?

[Eminence Grise]

I just feel that we should look to do something similar now. Get the likes of Liam Kelly, Declan Rice etc into the team and build from scratch playing a little bit of football and not bombard players with the idea that they are all crap so have to hoof as much as possible.

Couldn't agree more, and maybe the exposure and experience would prevent other young players falling down the leagues and not getting back to Championship level until their late 20s, as happens too often. A 21 year old with a half a dozen caps who's a squad regular has the incentive to c0ck a snook at L1 clubs.

[OwlsFan]

Lads, reality will bite. I've said it before and I will say it again, Delaney has been bitten by risky choices, he will err on the conservative side in any choice made. The idea of an experienced coach who will take the heat off him when the going gets tough is ideal for him as is occurring now, with O'Neill centre stage, and no mention of the wily John.

There was only one risky choice and that was Stan, although arguably Kerr was also with no top level managerial experience. The FAI's appointment of experienced managers has worked as far as qualification for tournaments is concerned (Charlton, Trap and MON) but not for those who want qualification with style. McCarthy was not an experienced manager having had a few years with Millwall prior to his appointment and there were a few bumps in the road before we qualified under him.

So what I am saying is, if you want success (i.e. qualifications) you have to pay top dollar for a top man. The Northern Ireland recent experience may perhaps say otherwise but they have been a long time waiting.

[Stuttgart88]

Is there any rule changes that could be brought in to make football a more attacking game .

Football ( particularly international football and the likes of Mourinho ) is way to defensive at the moment . If it takes a few subtle rule change to make for more attacking football then so be it .

The games ebbs and flows by itself. Euro 2008 was v attacking WC 2010 defensive and then it swung back to attacking again. tactics evolve, opponents adapt and so on.

[DeLorean]

I would love to see Stephen Kenny take over.

I've a feeling the job would swallow him up.

[backstothewall]

Serious question. Do we need a manager?

We don't have a proper international for a year. It's not as if there is a shortage of issues that could do with having that money spent on them instead of a manager to pick a side for friendlies.

[jbyrne]

Serious question. Do we need a manager?

We don't have a proper international for a year. It's not as if there is a shortage of issues that could do with having that money spent on them instead of a manager to pick a side for friendlies.

we need to spend the next 10 months or so re-building. At least 5 friendlies required with the hope of identifying 4 or 5 potential starters.
we obviously need a manager for all that

[backstothewall]

we need to spend the next 10 months or so re-building. At least 5 friendlies required with the hope of identifying 4 or 5 potential starters.
we obviously need a manager for all that

We could have Noel King do it? He already knows the players concerned after all.

O'Neill makes €1m per year supposedly. Plus whatever is paid to Keane, Walford, Guppy etc.

Is it worth spending it this year?

[Park_Lane]

Serious question. Do we need a manager?

We don't have a proper international for a year. It's not as if there is a shortage of issues that could do with having that money spent on them instead of a manager to pick a side for friendlies.

Do you really want to listen to Noel King for a year?

[Park_Lane]

We could have Noel King do it? He already knows the players concerned after all.

O'Neill makes €1m per year supposedly. Plus whatever is paid to Keane, Walford, Guppy etc.

Is it worth spending it this year?

King is a moran. Ostracised some of the squad during his last stint with his tactics and selections.

[KrisLetang]

King is a moran. Ostracised some of the squad during his last stint with his tactics and selections.

Any relation to the late Erin Moran from Happy Days?

[liamoo11]

King is a moran. Ostracised some of the squad during his last stint with his tactics and selections.

No fear O'Neill had ostracised any player with his tactics or selections. All players not been picked or asked to do a different role get the hump it's life it's the glen mccauley/stephen Ireland complex - pick me and pick me where I want or I won't play and the manager is a moran

[Fizzer]

Get a brain morans

[OwlsFan]

King is a moran. Ostracised some of the squad during his last stint with his tactics and selections.

Where did you get that from ? Robbie Keane said after King's stint as manager: "I don't know if there's anything between them (King and Dunphy) but he hasn't spoofed any of the lads this week. He's been honest as they come, a credit to himself the way he handled himself," said Keane, who had earlier registered his 61st international goal. To come in, change it all up and leave out players who want to play, he's done well. All the lads enjoyed him, he's one of our own, he's fantastic."

[backstothewall]

I stumbled across this earlier. Noel King clearly coming to the opinion that Tony O'Donoghue is an arse after just over a week as caretaker manager. Followed by 20 minutes of Dunphy and Giles getting stuck into a caretaker manager, by the sound of it because he had the audacity to question them on matters of faith or morals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efErbHo6Hlw&t=326s

[Charlie Darwin]

I've my own issues with King but he did a creditable job in his stint with the senior team, including bringing in future international Andy Boyle to the set-up.

[pineapple stu]

Daryl Murphy has announced his international retirement. I think he's the first to formally do so? I imagine more will retire in the lead up to the friendly in Turkey in March

[tetsujin1979]

Few different numbers of caps going around, I've counted 32 (See below), the FAI are saying 33 - http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/fai-pays-tribute-to-daryl-murphy-upon-retirement - and wikipedia has him on 27 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Murphy#International
957240997049700358

The FAI's list includes the 1-1 draw against Cyprus in 2007, but according to uefa.com he didn't play in that game: http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2008/matches/round=2241/match=83654/postmatch/lineups/index.html

[mark12345]

The fact that he was thought of as international standard speaks volumes for our striking options. Can't fault the lad, he tried his heart out, but the ball never really stuck with him in the final third (that's when we ever managed to get it his way) and he was never really a serious goal threat to opposition defences.

[OwlsFan]

The fact that he was thought of as international standard speaks volumes for our striking options. Can't fault the lad, he tried his heart out, but the ball never really stuck with him in the final third (that's when we ever managed to get it his way) and he was never really a serious goal threat to opposition defences.

I wouldn't have been his biggest fan but to be fair to him, he scored two competitive goals in the last campaign and improved as time went on. His Serbian goal should have seen us qualify if we had done the business at home against them but therein lies another story.

[pineapple stu]

His Serbian goal should have seen us qualify if we had done the business at home against them but therein lies another story.
That's probably a little bit too much "If my auntie had balls", I think. Lots of things could have swung it; I think overall the good breaks we got out-weighed the bad ones.