Formula 1

[Schumi]

Yeah, very boring this year. Alonso's just walking away with the title.

[Macy]

Yeah, very boring this year. Alonso's just walking away with the title.
Hopefully they'll go back to last years rules (at the very least) rather than all the luck elements needed this year. How it's supposed to be safer with tyre wear like was seen yesterday beggars belief, before you take into account the reduced excitement and skill around strategies. ffs, I've watched F1 through turbos, no turbo's, full pit stops, tyre change only, back to tyres and fuel, and now to fuel only.... Very annoying...

[elroy]

God Im surprised, anything wouldve being an improvement on last year and I think this year is pretty good so far.
Dont think alonso will run away with it plus am expecting a late charge from ferrari. The strategy element has diminished a bit alright, however rather than the last 10/15 laps of races being a procession to the finish, now they're arguably the most exciting.

[Macy]

It's more competitive because the other cars have caught and passed Ferrari, which would've happened under whatever rules (look at the rise and fall of McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, Bennetton/Renault over the years). What the rule changes have done have drastically increased the influence of luck, rather than it being the best driver/car.

[Wiseguy]

I used to be a huge F1 fan until recentlly when it became a predictable precession with Schuey leading the way.I have been to several G.P's and i have to say that this years championship is a breath of fresh air.It's good to see the drivers with driving ability coming to the fore and Ferrari trailing in their wake.As regards the luck,that comes and goes so i would leave the rules the same.

[shedite]

I used to love F1 years ago from about the time Damon Hill won, through the time that Hackinnen and Coulthard ruled in McLaren's but then started to loose interest when Shumacher dominated.

However, I am going to my first Grand Prix next weekend in Montreal. Any advise on what to watch on race day? Can you get close to the track with GA tickets or are ya better watching it on a big screen with all the times etc. Anyone ever been to a GP?

[niamh]

I was at the Canadian race a few years back. Honestly unless you are there early with the GA tickets, you'll be watching it on television. We had seats and we lucky but the whole event is very well organised.
Reinvigorated my whole love for the sport :)
Just de sound alone...

[niamh]

The championship is more interesting this year but the races - bar Europe and San Marino - are exactly the same. One strong car, walking away with the whole thing.
Schumacher wasn't the problem in the last few years - the lack of competitive racing is the issue and how to change that in a sport were money is everything.
No easy answers :rolleyes:

[omril]

So, what are your expectations for Montreal?

Alongside Spa, that's my favourite circuit, and I'd really like to see my Fisi claiming his 2nd win of the season in sunday, after being in the podium for like 4 times with cars that simply don't belong there, especially the benettons.

Williams did well over there last year, before being disqualified (sorry, can't remember why), with ralfie claiming the second place and JPM in 4th, so maybe we'll finally see ralf finishing ahead off trulli. I don't know about JPM's chances, but he's definitely one of the best guys out there, did extremely well in 2003, he should be given some more time. He has the talent.

Schuey has always been very good in Canada, but it's hard to drive a car that has no tyres. Kimi is my favourite for the win, anyway, and sorry for being an arse, but I'd really really like to see Alonso DNF.

[mypost]

Alonso won his fourth race at the European Grand Prix, after only leading for one lap of the race, -the last one!!

Canada is usually the turning point of the season for the struggling teams, who normally begin to catch up with the leaders from this race on, and become more competitive. While it looks hard for Alonso to be caught in the championship, it can be done if he suffers a few DNF's. With 12 races remaining, I wouldn't say that the title race is over yet.

[shedite]

Well went to my first Grand prix yesterday. Absolutely amazing experience. We had GA tickets so no seats. to be honest, I was expecting to be able to stand wherever you wanted, but the track it very covered so there's only very few places to see the race.

When we got there we headed over to the start to watch the cars getting ready and watched the start through the stands, then we walked around a bit and watched from a straight where the cars were passing at 330km/h!!!

Eventually we headed down to the hair pin bend where we got a fantastic view where we could also see big screen and commentry.

then Sata's car went off the track right in front of us and the fire people were putting out the fire. They brought on a crane to lift the car and Schumacher skidded and nearly hit the crane!

Great day out though. I would defo get a seat next time if anyone's going. 32 degrees too was nice and there was a concert on the track after which was a cool idea coz it staggered the 125,000 crowd's exit.

[mypost]

The Canadian race was a slow-burner, but livened up in the second half, with Button the latest driver to fall victim to the "Champions Wall". Montoya was black-flagged, neither Renault driver finished, despite having a 1-2 at one stage. Eventually Raikkonen kept his car in one piece, and won his third race this season, with the Ferrari scoring the most constructors points, with both drivers ending up on the podium.

The Indianapolis track in the USA hosts round 9. The long straights, and sweeping corners should hand the McLaren's a distinct advantage, possibly allowing Raikkonen to close the gap further in the championship. However, the races at Indianapolis tend to be processional, and it's not one of my favourite circuits, the second shortest on the calendar.

[mypost]

The USA GP turned out to be a farce. One of the tyre manufacturers failed to have an adequate set of tyres for the weekend, and only 3 teams competed in the race, leading to crowd trouble in one of the worst weekends in F1 history.

Motor racing is dangerous. It's that danger that draws people to the sport. The sport can never be made completely safe. F1 races in the past, have been run in torrential rain, run on weekends of major global disasters, run during earthquakes, yet F1 millionaire drivers can't drive a race because one corner of a track is deemed unsuitable for a tyre to race on, and there was apparantly, no possibility to consider any alternative options, for the sport's sake.

Tbh, this kind of thing has been coming for a long time. Schumacher's dominance of the sport in recent times, has led to many changes in the rules. The old qualifying sessions were interfered with. Then qualifying became effectively part of the race. Then engine use was restricted. Then in-car technical devices were banned. Then tyre use was restricted, in order to not only cut costs, but to attract more people to watch races. The teams only care about what's best for them, not what's best for the fans, or the sport. There is no Plan B considered for exceptional circumstances like what happened at the USA GP. The rulebook must be adhered to at all times, or else.

For the record, Schumacher notched up his first win of the season. But the GP itself was not a race, it was a joke. :mad:

[Macy]

Michelin's fault, and I don't blame the Bridgestone runners for not wanting to change the course. Nothing wrong with their tyre, so why should they? Bugger the spectical - if Michelin can't produce a safe tyre for the track, it's on their head.

Doubt Michelin will be in a position to fook up next year knowing Ecclestone... ;)

Another damning indictment of the pathetic rule changes. That's 2 of the last 3 races adversly affected by the new tyre regulations - what a great safety measure :rolleyes:

[elroy]

The USA GP turned out to be a farce. One of the tyre manufacturers failed to have an adequate set of tyres for the weekend, and only 3 teams competed in the race, leading to crowd trouble in one of the worst weekends in F1 history.

Motor racing is dangerous. It's that danger that draws people to the sport. The sport can never be made completely safe. F1 races in the past, have been run in torrential rain, run on weekends of major global disasters, run during earthquakes, yet F1 millionaire drivers can't drive a race because one corner of a track is deemed unsuitable for a tyre to race on, and there was apparantly, no possibility to consider any alternative options, for the sport's sake.

Tbh, this kind of thing has been coming for a long time. Schumacher's dominance of the sport in recent times, has led to many changes in the rules. The old qualifying sessions were interfered with. Then qualifying became effectively part of the race. Then engine use was restricted. Then in-car technical devices were banned. Then tyre use was restricted, in order to not only cut costs, but to attract more people to watch races. The teams only care about what's best for them, not what's best for the fans, or the sport. There is no Plan B considered for exceptional circumstances like what happened at the USA GP. The rulebook must be adhered to at all times, or else.

For the record, Schumacher notched up his first win of the season. But the GP itself was not a race, it was a joke. :mad:


Well generally I would be in favour of the rule changes this year, otherwise we would have had another Schumacher parade for the season. However yesterday was a disgrace, it showed a complete and utter disregard for the fans. Can you imagine if you forked out €000's to go see that.
I wouldnt blame the drivers, mainly the FIA and the team principals and Michelin to an extent. Yes they brought the wrong tyres but why they couldnt reach an agreement like all bridgestones start at the front, all micheling cars are given a time penalty at the end/start of the race in return for the chicane.
It was a complete joke, there should be some sort of arbitration body to deal with circumstances like this whose decision would be binding on all and ultimately would lead to what the fans want-a race.
F1 in the US is dead for sure.

[Schumi]

Motor racing is dangerous. It's that danger that draws people to the sport. The sport can never be made completely safe. F1 races in the past, have been run in torrential rain, run on weekends of major global disasters, run during earthquakes, yet F1 millionaire drivers can't drive a race because one corner of a track is deemed unsuitable for a tyre to race on
I don't think that's fair at all. Did you see the accident that Ralf had? If there's a significant chance of that happening to cars in the race, it's completely unreasonable to expect drivers to race. It would be like forcing footballers to play on a pitch with land mines.

[elroy]

I don't think that's fair at all. Did you see the accident that Ralf had? If there's a significant chance of that happening to cars in the race, it's completely unreasonable to expect drivers to race. It would be like forcing footballers to play on a pitch with land mines.


Agreed, the drivers were not to blame for yday. I dont particularly like him but on the formation lap you could hear Coulthard on the team radio trying to get the team to let him race.
Yesterday was a result of a terrible error by Michelin and massive egos and politics in F1.

[Macy]

btw Was it last season or the season before where Bridgestone had problems with the tyres and requested a track change? Michelin refused, so I guess what goes around comes around. More michelin runners shouldn't make the difference - I doubt had it been reversed the Michelin runners would've agreed the changes....

[Superhoops]

I don't think that's fair at all. Did you see the accident that Ralf had? If there's a significant chance of that happening to cars in the race, it's completely unreasonable to expect drivers to race. It would be like forcing footballers to play on a pitch with land mines.
Agree completely, but there was another option offered by putting a chicane in before that particular bend to slow down the drivers. However, Ferrari would not agree. They obviously had reasons for doing it, but that decision took no account of the fans who had turned up to see a race. The reaction of the fans was predictable and justified. I am no fan of F1, but I cannot see what benefit Ferrari got out of winning a six car race. Surely the mother of all 'hollow victories'.

[Macy]

Agree completely, but there was another option offered by putting a chicane in before that particular bend to slow down the drivers. However, Ferrari would not agree. They obviously had reasons for doing it, but that decision took no account of the fans who had turned up to see a race. The reaction of the fans was predictable and justified. I am no fan of F1, but I cannot see what benefit Ferrari got out of winning a six car race. Surely the mother of all 'hollow victories'.
Bridgestone produced a tyre that was capable of being used safely on the track. Michelin didn't. Technical fook up by Michelin, so Bridgestone runners right to go ahead on the agreed track. Why should the Bridgestone runners be disadvantaged because of a mistake by a supplier to other teams? The blame lies squarely at Michelin.

[Superhoops]

Bridgestone produced a tyre that was capable of being used safely on the track. Michelin didn't. Technical fook up by Michelin, so Bridgestone runners right to go ahead on the agreed track. Why should the Bridgestone runners be disadvantaged because of a mistake by a supplier to other teams? The blame lies squarely at Michelin.
Maybe it does, but surely the sport has more of an obligation to the thousands of fans who spent a lot of money travelling to Indianapolis to see a race rather than to an obligation to one team? Had Ferrari been using Michelin and the only teams that were using Bridgestone were the 'no hopers' like Jordan etc. there would have either been no race at all or a compromise on the layout of the track. If one team is allowed to become bigger than the sport then the sport deservedly has problems.

[mypost]

Did you see the accident that Ralf had? If there's a significant chance of that happening to cars in the race, it's completely unreasonable to expect drivers to race. It would be like forcing footballers to play on a pitch with land mines.

Motor sport is dangerous, and the danger is all part of F1. If you drive a car around at high speed for 1.5/2 hours, overcoming all the hurdles on the track, you deserve your success. These guys are handsomely paid to put their lives on the line, every time they test, practice, qualify, and race, for our entertainment. It's their job.

Personally, I don't blame Michelin. I blame the FIA. How do they punish Michelin, without throwing the championship into disrepute? If they deduct points, or suspend teams from races, there will be uproar among most of the teams, and another sign that the FIA are biased towards Ferrari, for commercial reasons. I blame the FIA who refuse to consider alternative options for such serious and exceptional circumstances, hiding behind their rulebook. Common sense demanded that they come up with an acceptable compromise to the teams who are supplied by Michelin. Racing whilst waiving points is unacceptable, as you may as well not race when you're effectively wasting your time going round, and round for an hour and a half.

What happens if this tyre issue comes up again later this season? What happens if cars with Michelin tyres fly off the circuit at the Adelaide hairpin in Magny-Cours, Stowe in Silverstone, Stavelot at Spa, Parabolica at Monza, or Spoon in Suzuka, will there be another 6-car race again? The next race is coming up soon, and Michelin's tyres may still not be considered safe to drive it. Will the Michelin teams withdraw again? It's certainly possible.

Personally, I think that as a face-saving measure, the USA GP should be declared null and void, and be re-run after the end of the scheduled races this season, with free admission for fans who turned up yesterday who had their day ruined. I think that's the fairest solution.

[Macy]

Personally, I don't blame Michelin. I blame the FIA. How do they punish Michelin, without throwing the championship into disrepute?
WTF, Michelin are supposed to produce a tyre that is capable of performing on the track. They didn't, so how is that the FIA's fault? They took a gamble on the tyre to get as much advantage as possible - they went too far. Entirely Michelin's fault what happened.

Michelin will be punished by no longer being suppliers to the F1, and too right too if they're not up to the job.

Bloody yanks - spectacle above the sport's rule book. Next they'll be wanting safety cars because someone's too far ahead :rolleyes:

[pete]

Has to be Michelins fault. Why didn't they use the tyres from 2004?

[shedite]

It's a stupid situation.

Michelin should have brought safe tyres - they could have seen the track for the past few months.

FIA should have put in a chicane.

Everyone's a looser here.

[Schumi]

Next they'll be wanting safety cars because someone's too far ahead :rolleyes:
Surely not! :D

[Macy]

Surely not! :D
I know, just wouldn't be proper motor racing would it....

[shedite]

Just had a thought. If any team had reappeared from the pit lane during the final lap, and was on the track while micheal schumacher passed the finish line, they would have got points for coming 7th. Could have been very funny.

Also could have been funny - Schumacher and Barichello took each other out as he came out of the pit stop. Jordan 1-2.

By the way, is Jordan any bit Irish owned anymore?

[pete]

By the way, is Jordan any bit Irish owned anymore?

Don't think any irish ownership left. Eddie Irvine was rumoursed to be involved in takeover as think Jordan verging on bankruptcy with new owners.

[mypost]

WTF, Michelin are supposed to produce a tyre that is capable of performing on the track. They didn't, so how is that the FIA's fault? They took a gamble on the tyre to get as much advantage as possible - they went too far. Entirely Michelin's fault what happened.

Michelin will be punished by no longer being suppliers to the F1, and too right too if they're not up to the job.

Paul Stoddart, Minardi boss, is calling for Mosley's head, and his team's tyres are not supplied by Michelin. Knowing that their tyres were screwed up, Michelin attempted to race while allowing concessions to the non-Michelin shod teams, but the FIA wouldn't permit them. Somebody had to lose on Sunday, but nobody wanted to accept responsibility. And that's the problem. Everybody says it's not their fault, but the sport is run by organisers, who should have done everything possible to ensure we had some form of race in Indianapolis. It's the FIA's fault for not doing what they are supposed to do, i.e. govern. You can't have a competitive race with just 3 teams, or you lose all creditability, as a sport. Mosley says it's not their problem, but it will be. Punishing Michelin won't hurt them, they'll still make money in other ways, or move to compete in a less bureaucratic form of motor-sport. The FIA will lose sponsorship, lose tv viewers, ticket sales will plummet for other races, and they'll take a heavy financial hit in an important commercial area, North America. The FIA could have allowed something resembling a proper "race" to take place in Indianapolis, but as they chose not to, the financial repurcussions for them and the sport as a whole, could be horrendous.

[Frank Blue]

Just read an interesting take on all this in yesterday's Daily Mail (yuck!) that a visitor brought over. First of all the non-Michelin teams were right, including Ferrari with their position. It's rules chaps. Why change the race circuit or allow a change of tyres, when you agreed to the rules in place and now wanted them broken. Blame the tyre supplier, as it isn't as if Michelin is new to this game, nor the Indianapolis circuit. In fact blame yourselves for not bringing in the right kit. Doh!
The article went on (OK I am trying to cut it down and give a quick sunmmation, with personal bias to boot), thatOK they cant go through this corner at 180mph top speed.......well slow down a bit!!! You have brakes!!!
This could have been also done.

The final spin is that it was a battle for control of the premier sport in motor racing. As a result the manufacturers, except Ferrari, were trying to push the F1 promoters and FIA into accepting their demands to break the rules in place. Ecclestone didnt put up a good argument - could have used most of this post. So now the battle lines have been drawn up. The end of F1 as we know it?

[Schumi]

OK they cant go through this corner at 180mph top speed.......well slow down a bit!!! You have brakes!!!
This could have been also done.
No it couldn't. Can you imagine a group of cars coming up to the corner together and all suddenly have to slow down. There's no way they'd slow by the same amount and you'd be guarenteed a crash at some stage in the race(and this is before you consider what would would happen if a Bridgestone car was behind them). It'd be like Coulthard at Spa in 1998 again except that there'd be loads of cars involved.

[mypost]

Hopefully normal service will be resumed in the French Grand Prix, so we have a genuine race to look forward to.

Renault should have won last year's race, but were outfoxed by Schumacher's pit-stop strategy. (How can someone win a race on 4 pit stops??) :eek: Williams have a new package, that they believe will make them faster from this round. Will Ferrari rediscover it's competitive edge? Or will Raikkonen walk away with it again?

The tyres don't suffer too badly from wear-and-tear in Magny-Cours, the track surface is as smooth as a billiard table. And if Michelin's tyres are not up to scratch at their home race, they may as well withdraw from the championship! ;)

[niamh]

There were a lot of politics involved at the American GP. The 'Group of Nine' were trying to pin the blame of Ferrari when they were perfectly entitled to run the races without any changes.
The suggestion of a chicane was ridiculous....untested? How were the cars supposed to figure that one out on Lap one after running through it a couple of times?
Michelin made a mess of it. They were to blame.

[mypost]

The British Grand Prix hosts Round 11 of the championship at Silverstone, a race that was almost excluded from the championship this season. It's the closest we have to a "home" race too.

Alonso won the last race for Renault, helped by the fact Raikkonen's engine blew during the weekend, which led to a qualifying penalty. However, Raikkonen and Montoya are expected to thrash the opposition on their home circuit. It would be brave to bet against them.

Btw, would the teams on Michelin tyres faced punishments if they had started the race in Indy, but chose not to complete any laps? The FIA can punish them for not starting, but maybe not if they retired en-masse during the race instead.

[mypost]

Round 12 moves to Hockenheim, in Germany. Alonso increased his lead over Raikkonen by two more points at Silverstone, where from a McLaren point of view, the wrong driver won the race, Juan Montoya.

Before 2002, Hockenheim was one of the world's greatest circuits, an intimidating challenge which was hell for poor cars with unreliable engines, that often couldn't cope with the very long straights over 45 punishing laps. (Some of the straights were so long, that they hosted drag races!!) Sadly, it was ripped up, and the current track is effectively a tv track now, with only one redeeming feature at the Turn 3 hairpin, which provides lots of overtaking opportunities. Schumacher suffered a puncture there 2 years ago, and it's the 10th anniversary of his first win there this year. McLaren, and Renault, may be the only ones to fight it out for victory this time, however.

[elroy]

yes it used to be some track, still is fairly good. Those long straights always threw up a good race. remember 97 berger and fisichella, when jordan came so close to a then first win.
Hopefully Raikkonen can get the win and a good few more points than alonso, want to see this championship go down to the wire

[mypost]

The drivers title was decided at the last race, when Raikkonen retired leaving second-placed Alonso to take the lead and drive unchallenged to the flag. The race is on for second place now, and continues in one of the most beautiful cities in Europe, Budapest. While the city's grandeur is awesome, the Hungaroring circuit is not. The tight, twisty dustbowl has one overtaking spot, at Turn One, and races are perennially processional. There have been 20 Grand Prix's there now, and it has never rained during the race. Alonso is expected to walk it again.

[mypost]

Alonso finished 11th in Hungary, as Kimi won the race without breaking sweat. It's happened too late at this stage to affect the Championship.

Round 14 moves to Turkey. The brand new circuit is similiar in size to Bahrain, and China, but is anti-clockwise. The new circuits may leave Ecclestone and Mosley salivating over Hermann Tilke's design, but as the crowd is usually well away from the track in some parts, there would appear to be more atmosphere on the moon, than at the Istanbul Oktodrum.

[mypost]

Raikkonen won the Istanbul GP, and McLaren would have had a 1-2 finish, if Montoya didn't crash, spin, and run off the circuit in the space of 2 of the last 3 laps. Alonso finished a grateful second, and a bonus two points...

...which came in handy at the next race in Italy, at Monza. Montoya survived a tyre deflammation near the end to win, finishing just ahead of Alonso. Raikkonen, suffering another 10-place grid penalty for mechanical problems, trailed in 5th.

It all means the championship is practically done and dusted. With 40 points remaining, Alonso leads Raikkonen by a whopping 36 points. McLaren may have the best car this year, but they won't close that big a gap. They might reduce it in Belgium with the unpredictable weather at Spa, but I fancy Alonso to clinch it in Brazil, in front of the prime-time tv audience.

[niamh]

People can say what they want about Michael Schumacher's dominance, but what i want to see is a straight out battle between two championship challengers - whoever they may be.
Kimi is flying at the moment and Alonso, quite rightly is playing it safe, but I would love to see the two of them just go at it. The McLaren is a lot quicker though just not as reliable.

[mypost]

Raikkonen won again in Belgium, cutting the gap at the front to 2 points, as Alonso benefitted from another Montoya error late on, to take second.

As the circus headed West to Brazil, Alonso claimed the drivers championship by finishing 3rd, behind a McLaren 1-2, with Montoya claiming his second win at Interlagos in a row.

Heading further West over the Pacific, the focus moves to the Constructors title. McLaren are bidding to win back their crown they last won in 1998, but Alonso has kept Renault in the hunt for their first title since they won it with Williams in '97. Ferrari and Schumacher played merely a supporting role this year. The Japanese Grand Prix start time was moved for the first time this year since 2000, it starts at 2pm local time, moving back in line with the majority of the other circuits. It means a 6am GP start for us. Let's hope it's more exciting than last year's Schumi walkover, his last competitive vicory.