Scottish Irn Bru Cup

[historynut]

On BBC teletext, ROI teams to join N. Ireland and Welsh teams in the Scotish Irn Bru cup

[Mr A]

Fixed title. Was already known that Sligo and Bray would enter this this season. Bala had a decent run in it last year.

[Seagull]

From Bray Wanderers Facebook- http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/irn-bru-cup-expanded-for-201718/

[historynut]

TNS reached semi's

[EatYerGreens]

This was announced a while back.

It was TNS who had the good run in it last year. Which shows how weak Scottish football is outside the SPL.

The fact that they aren't inviting the top teams from the LOI is a compliment for the league as well.

[sbgawa]

Maybe with a ten team league and a longer season the top clubs could enter it. Why not the top 5 if they would have us. A bigger comp better teams (our top 5) maybe more money sponsorship etc.......but I really just want a couple of weakends away in Scotland :) ,,,, or Wales

[Ezeikial]

Maybe with a ten team league and a longer season the top clubs could enter it. Why not the top 5 if they would have us. A bigger comp better teams (our top 5) maybe more money sponsorship etc.......but I really just want a couple of weakends away in Scotland :) ,,,, or Wales

You might get your wish without any qualification changes

[seand]

I think it was just confirmed and ratified by UEFA yesterday (as required for clubs playing in trans-national competitions), but it's old news. Sligo and Bray were the 2 highest ranked non-Euro qualifiers.

This competition is for lower league, non-league and underage Scots teams so not the glamour trip some seem to be thinking. It's questionable whether a club pushing for Europe or battling relegation will get any real benefit from travelling to play Brechin City in front of 500 in October. And if they do get thru a round the next round will be after the end of the LoI season. Still, novel opposition and an opportunity to travel to another country to see your club has it's attractions.

[sbgawa]

You might get your wish without any qualification changes


ditto

[legendz]

Maybe with a ten team league and a longer season the top clubs could enter it. Why not the top 5 if they would have us. A bigger comp better teams (our top 5) maybe more money sponsorship etc.......but I really just want a couple of weakends away in Scotland :) ,,,, or Wales
I think the idea is to enter the next best teams that gave not qualified for Europe.

It'll never happen but I'd like to see LoI clubs in the English knockout competition reserved for League One and League Two.

[Mr A]

I dream of one day seeing Harps lift the County Antrim Shield.

[El-Pietro]

I find the invitation to this tournament an insult. I'm sure it'll be a great trip but this is how Scotland sees the LOI, about the level of their U20 teams. Glad we're not involved. Hope to **** Bray or Sligo win the thing.

[nigel-harps1954]

I find the invitation to this tournament an insult. I'm sure it'll be a great trip but this is how Scotland sees the LOI, about the level of their U20 teams. Glad we're not involved. Hope to **** Bray or Sligo win the thing.

That's exactly why I'm glad to see LOI sides involved tbh. I'd hope Bray and Sligo go over and walk over any opposition they come up against, which realistically, they should be doing until at least playing one of the top Championship sides. If they're at the races at all, either one of them should be capable of winning the thing.

[EatYerGreens]

It'll never happen but I'd like to see LoI clubs in the English knockout competition reserved for League One and League Two.

Why ?

Bray Wanderers travelling to face the mighty Crawley Town on a Tuesday night in November ? The glamour of it all....

[EatYerGreens]

I dream of one day seeing Harps lift the County Antrim Shield.

Probably more chance of that than an LOI trophy anyway ;)

[EatYerGreens]

I find the invitation to this tournament an insult. I'm sure it'll be a great trip but this is how Scotland sees the LOI, about the level of their U20 teams. Glad we're not involved. Hope to **** Bray or Sligo win the thing.

In fairness - how are those in Scottish football supposed to yardstick where Irish football is, outside its top clubs ?

They look at our UEFA ranking - it's a lot lower than their's.

They look at our attendances - they're significantly lower than their's (even ignoring the top SPL clubs).

They look at our stadiums, and their's are broadly a lot better than ours.

So if you look at it objectively - on what grounds can you credibly suggest that they yardstick the LOI, minus its top few clubs, in any other way ?

[El-Pietro]

In fairness - how are those in Scottish football supposed to yardstick where Irish football is, outside its top clubs ?

They look at our UEFA ranking - it's a lot lower than ours.

They look at our attendances - they're significantly lower than theirs (even ignoring the top SPL clubs).

They look at our stadiums, and theirs are broadly a lot better than ours.

So if you look at it objectively - on what grounds can you credibly suggest that they yardstick the LOI, minus its top few clubs, in any other way ?
Take out Celtic and their coefficient and ranking is no better than ours.

[EatYerGreens]

Take out Celtic and their coefficient and ranking is no better than ours.

That sounds logical, but isn't.

1) Celtic are a Scottish football club. You can't wish them away.

2) If we pretended they didn't exist then we'd be counting one less Scottish club in the rankings, which wouldn't be a level playing field.

3) If they didn't exist, another Scottish club would take their place in Europe. And in their absence, the league would probably be more balanced - and so other Scottish clubs would be in better shape.

4) If you took out the highest ranking LOI club from our UEFA ranking, our standing would reduce as well.

5) You can't credibly expect other countries to start tinkering with their own UEFA rankings and making excuses for us in an attempt to yardstick how the LOI compares to themselves.

[Longfordian]

I think you'll find Celtic are Irish.

[EatYerGreens]

I think you'll find Celtic are Irish.

As Irish as Rangers anyway :D

[El-Pietro]

That sounds logical, but isn't.

1) Celtic are a Scottish football club. You can't wish them away.

2) If we pretended they didn't exist then we'd be counting one less Scottish club in the rankings, which wouldn't be a level playing field.

3) If they didn't exist, another Scottish club would take their place in Europe. And in their absence, the league would probably be more balanced - and so other Scottish clubs would be in better shape.

4) If you took out the highest ranking LOI club from our UEFA ranking, our standing would reduce as well.

5) You can't credibly expect other countries to start tinkering with their own UEFA rankings and making excuses for us in an attempt to yardstick how the LOI compares to themselves.

My point is that there is no gap between the top 5 or so Irish teams and everyone not named Celtic in the SPL. Maybe Rnagers will get back to that level in the next few years. Asking our teams to play St Johnstones U20s in a competitive fixture is insulting.

If Bray etc were invited into a competition against the SPL teams - even those outside of Europe that would be reasonable.

And if you took Celtic out of Scottish football (and Rangers if they get their act together) there would be much less money in Scottish football and they wouldn't have the stadia etc that they have.

[EatYerGreens]

My point is that there is no gap between the top 5 or so Irish teams and everyone not named Celtic in the SPL. Maybe Rnagers will get back to that level in the next few years. Asking our teams to play St Johnstones U20s in a competitive fixture is insulting.

You may well be right on that. But my point is - how can you say that for certain ? The only yardsticks available would, on paper, suggest Scottish football is in a better and stronger shape.


If Bray etc were invited into a competition against the SPL teams - even those outside of Europe that would be reasonable.

I'm not convinced Bray or Limerick would be beating the likes of Hearts or even the newly promoted Hibs on a regular basis. Resources and facilities would suggest otherwise.

I think this whole discussion is just indicative of how those who support each league think it's stronger than the other, on the basis of no real comparative evidence.

[El-Pietro]

I'm using European football as a yardstick. Actual results. Our top teams are as good or better than Scottish teams - despite the advantage those Scottish teams have in coefficient driven by Celtic.

[legendz]

Why ?

Bray Wanderers travelling to face the mighty Crawley Town on a Tuesday night in November ? The glamour of it all....
Obviously again it will never happen.

Just curious how LoI clubs would get on against League One opposition especially. There are clubs in that league that LoI clubs can learn a lot from right across a club's setup. Regular visits might spark fresh ideas and new thinking. It wouldn't be a bad thing for the league to have a closer link to the professional setup of the third tier across the water.

[JC_GUFC]

I find the invitation to this tournament an insult. I'm sure it'll be a great trip but this is how Scotland sees the LOI, about the level of their U20 teams. Glad we're not involved. Hope to **** Bray or Sligo win the thing.

The competition is for Scottish League clubs. The SPL u20s are invitees too, as with the League of Wales and NI clubs. The top two clubs were invited from those leagues whereas it's the 5th and 6th placed clubs from the LoI.

[Mr A]

Obviously again it will never happen.

Just curious how LoI clubs would get on against League One opposition especially. There are clubs in that league that LoI clubs can learn a lot from right across a club's setup. Regular visits might spark fresh ideas and new thinking. It wouldn't be a bad thing for the league to have a closer link to the professional setup of the third tier across the water.

Off the field at least this is already happening, and the FAI have been good in facilitating it. LOI clubs had a marketing workshop at the weekend at which Millwall spoke (they won family club of the year last year with a tiny spend so had lots to offer). Earlier this year at the media officer workshop there were presentations by Aberdeen, TNS and Colchester.

[sadloserkid]

I'd be gutted if Limerick were in this and got a home draw.

[Seagull]

Sorry, was on my phone and went to edit my post to add this link but managed to delete it instead!
http://braywanderersfc.ie/spfl-release-irn-bru-cup-details/

[bennocelt]

"The overall amount available for prize money is up by 9%, from £308,000 to £335,200", not bad..............

[Nesta99]

At a minimum it will have 1 competative pre season fixture for Sligo and Bray. That the top 2 in the Irish league are in it is interesting with mid table LoI sides - dont the Irish League sides not have enough with their own domestic competitions Europe and this. Id see the attraction if a tie was in late June early July.

[EatYerGreens]

At a minimum it will have 1 competative pre season fixture for Sligo and Bray. That the top 2 in the Irish league are in it is interesting with mid table LoI sides - dont the Irish League sides not have enough with their own domestic competitions Europe and this. Id see the attraction if a tie was in late June early July.

1) They like the money.

2) Anything that links IL clubs closer to Scotland tends to be popular.

3) Anything that reminds everyone that IL clubs are part of the UK tends to be popular with them.

:)

[Nesta99]

Fair comment! I was thinking that it showed air of inferiority complex - pull out of the Setanta Cup 'due to travel costs' and that IL sides generally not progressing (although they did when the prizemoney was very good early years). Not that long after they could play in Scotland, Wales and RoI and the teams from LoI are midtable as opposed to European qualifiers. But yup what you say fits the logic ok. Anyone think this comp could be expanded or the forerunner to Celtic league, if you pardon the term.

[seand]

Sorry, was on my phone and went to edit my post to add this link but managed to delete it instead!
http://braywanderersfc.ie/spfl-release-irn-bru-cup-details/

As luck would have it Bray and Sligo are down to play each other on the weekend they'll both start in the competition, if they get through a round Sligo-Bohs and Bray-Galway could be affected

[wonder88]

I would be very positive about this competition for LoI clubs. Some of the benefits have already been mentioned on here such as learning from clubs with a more professional structure. Also the 5k sterling for cost of overseas trip, plus tv coverage of the later stages of the competition are great incentives, and of course a very realistic test for both Bray and Sligo compared to euro competitions. Good work by the FAI to get us in it.
ps I could also be a way to re-introduce LoI soccer to TG4, which sadly has gone big on rugger in recent years, leaving the soccer Gaels on the side.

[peadar1987]

I can see Firhill from the window of my flat, so I'm hoping Bray get an away draw against Partick Colts! Anywhere Central Belt-ish should be okay to make though

[legendz]

LoI clubs seem to be performing quite well in Europe in comparison with SPL clubs, apart from Celtic. It'll be interesting to see how LoI midtable clubs from last season get on against lower league Scottish opponents.

[Northsider]

Will Bray still be entering this?

[PartySaint]

Will Bray still be entering this?

Pats next in line if they don't?

[Nesta99]

After a few years of of astricks not appearing and not major controversy we have the question marks over Athlone and now Bray. With Bray it doesnt look good in terms of this competition if teams entered get bumped out due to financial mismanagement. Wouldnt surprise me if the FAI introduce some sort of bond lodgements as participation for bot league and this cup or a central contract system paid for by the clubs but issued by the FAI as it reflects REALLY badly on them in a much wider audience when the SFA, never mind the Welsh and Nordies, are asking WTH as yiz at.

[JC_GUFC]

I see the draw has been made for the 1st Round here...

http://int.soccerway.com/national/scotland/challenge-cup/20172018/1st-round/r40492/

The 2nd round when the Irish & Welsh clubs enter takes place on the first weekend in September.

It also looks like Eir have the rights to the games.

[littlebray]

I see the draw has been made for the 1st Round

Yes, almost a month ago, and here (http://www.braywanderers.com/showarticle.php?id=745) ever since ...

... and format details in braywanderersfc as noted above, since 21 June.

:)

[patrickccfc]

https://twitter.com/BrayWanderers/status/897053875047411712

Draw for second round Thursday at 1pm

[oldskool]

https://twitter.com/BrayWanderers/status/897053875047411712

Draw for second round Thursday at 1pm


Rangers U20 went out last night beaten by Dumbarton 2-1, be interesting to see who Bray and Sligo get, not expecting much from this competition to be honest but a bit of diversion for Bray and Sligo who have had a bit of a mare of a season for two different reasons

[pineapple stu]

Celtic out as well; lost 3-1 to Annan

[Roo69]

Sligo Rovers v Falkirk
Elgin City v Bray Wanderers
Crusaders v Motherwell
Albion Rovers or Spartans v Linfield
TNS v Livingston
Dumbarton v Connah’s Quay Nomads
Peterhead v Annan
Dundee United v Alloa
Berwick Rangers v Queen of the South
St Mirren v Hearts Colts
Hamilton Colts v Cove Rangers
Aberdeen Colts v Inverness Caley Thistle
Ayr United v Montrose
Stranraer v Partick Thistle Colts
Buckie Thistle v Dunfermline Athletic
Raith Rovers v Ross County
Games to be played on weekend of September 2/3.

[EatYerGreens]

Interesting enough fixtures there.

I'd expect both Bray and Sligo to progress, but Sligo could be a risk. Falkirk have had a shaky start to their season, whilst Sligo have been no great shakes this season either. Hard to see how they won't still be in a relegation scrap by the time this fixture comes round, so they may not be that bothered about winning it.

Tricky tie for Crusaders. If Linfield face Albion Rovers it could turn into a proxy Old Firm match. They're based in Coatbridge, which is not only near Glasgow but is also the west of Scotland's biggest Catholic town.

[Dalymountrower]

Albion are under investigation for playing an in eligible player in the last round and had a "pay what you can" entrance fee for their game v Spartans. They are managed by Brian Kerr.
If they tried to sell their ground twice , I claim "house" in Scotlands version of League of Ireland bingo.

[pineapple stu]

Crues are playing Motherwell's u20s. Should be favourites for that; the u20 sides aren't up to much so far

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Interesting enough fixtures there.

I'd expect both Bray and Sligo to progress, but Sligo could be a risk. Falkirk have had a shaky start to their season, whilst Sligo have been no great shakes this season either. Hard to see how they won't still be in a relegation scrap by the time this fixture comes round, so they may not be that bothered about winning it.

Tricky tie for Crusaders. If Linfield face Albion Rovers it could turn into a proxy Old Firm match. They're based in Coatbridge, which is not only near Glasgow but is also the west of Scotland's biggest Catholic town.

Seeing as our only game between now and then is away to Cork I think it's a safe assumption to say we'll still be in a relegation scrap. May as well give it a go. Only 2 other games in September.

[Bray Head]

Bray and Sligo are both out of the FAI cup and will only play every second week in the League in September so both should progress a few rounds in this competition. Will be interesting to see how they fair to compare the standards