Scottish Irn Bru Cup

[nigel-harps1954]

Both Sligo and Bray should be looking to win this competition, never mind seeing how far they can go in it. The highest ranked sides are second division Scottish teams ffs..

[brendy_éire]

Both Sligo and Bray should be looking to win this competition, never mind seeing how far they can go in it. The highest ranked sides are second division Scottish teams ffs..

I was thinking this myself. Unfortunately for Sligo and Bray, neither are having the best of seasons at present, but they should be able to give it a decent go all the same.
Just worth bearing in that the semi-final and final take place after the Scottish winter break, so could be very different squads by then.

[Mr A]

The likes of Dundee United, Inverness, Falkirk, Dunfermline and Saint Mirren are all decent sized clubs especially by Irish standards. And the Scottish 2nd tier has standards of facilities and professionalism we can only dream of as a league. But am sure Sligo and Bray will batter all comers.

[nigel-harps1954]

Standards of professionalism and facilities don't always translate onto the pitch.

[Longfordian]

Plus the biggest teams may not take it too seriously.

[pineapple stu]

Elgin take the lead against Bray shortly after the break.

Encouraging stuff...

[ger121]

Elgin take the lead against Bray shortly after the break.

Encouraging stuff...

Must be nearly over that one. Disappointing if it stays like that.

[pineapple stu]

2-0 Elgin.

So much for going easy on them!

Average crowd in the second flight in Scotland last season was 4400 btw. Every club was bigger than Bray. I think people have been getting carried away here.

[oldskool]

Erm...... Elgin are in the 4th tier not the 2nd Stu , what an embarrassment to the league Bray are....

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, I know.

I was pointing out that the expectation the LoI teams should be looking to win was over the top. But I could have been clearer alright.

Elgin's crowds are around Bray's - 600/700 - so I don't think it's an absolute embarrassment. But it is a wake up call. Dundalk and Cork aside - maybe Rovers have potential too - the LoI is poorer than I've ever seen. And I think that's feeding into the ****e in Georgia tonight.

[MattB11]

Followed it a bit on the live betting on bet365, Bray were odds on up until Elgin scored also thought Bray missed a pen around the 80th minute turned out the ref awarded it then changed his mind.

[pineapple stu]

Sligo 1-0 down inside ten minutes

[patrickccfc]

1-1 in Sligo

[patrickccfc]

Make that 1-2

[patrickccfc]

Thought both had a shout of getting through, although Sligo got a tougher draw. Bray's result was disappointing, thought they had a good chance of advancing.

[nigel-harps1954]

That's embarrassing for League of Ireland football.

[redobit]

That's embarrassing for League of Ireland football.

Falkirk have an average home crowd of 4000, an 8000 all seater stadium and a team that cost over 4 million to put together. Nothing embarrassing to losing to them.

[Martinho II]

I would safely imagine thats it not that long ago that Falkirk were in the top flight?

[EatYerGreens]

2-0 Elgin.

So much for going easy on them!

Average crowd in the second flight in Scotland last season was 4400 btw. Every club was bigger than Bray. I think people have been getting carried away here.

Hibs were in the Scottish Championship last season, banking home crowds of up to 15,000 for each game and taking quite a few away, so you can't treat that league average as in any way indicative of the norm. Clubs like Dumbarton get crowds around Bray's level usually. You'll see a substantially lower league wide average this year.

[EatYerGreens]

I would safely imagine thats it not that long ago that Falkirk were in the top flight?

They were last in the SPL in 2010.

They were unlucky over the last few seasons to have had Rangers and Hibs at their level, as they'd have probably won the Championship last year if Hibs weren't there. They've had a terrible start to the current season however.

[pineapple stu]

Both fair enough alright. But then other factors - TV deals; potential Cup matches against Old Firm - would be an extra boost worst considering.

Still think the idea that the LoI clubs should be looking to win the tournament outright is a bit much. Even if two first-round defeats is a bit surprising.

[EatYerGreens]

That's embarrassing for League of Ireland football.

The Bray result was awful. God knows what happened there.

Sligo were always going to face a difficult challenge, but home advantage should have helped them.

I think we've not been helped by the fact that of the 2 teams entered into the Irn Bru this year on the basis of performances last year, one has since been racked by turmoil whilst the other is in a relegation struggle. I think Rovers and Derry would have been better reps in hindsight, though that would've had the potential to cause Euro issues.

[EatYerGreens]

Both fair enough alright. But then other factors - TV deals; potential Cup matches against Old Firm - would be an extra boost worst considering.

Still think the idea that the LoI clubs should be looking to win the tournament outright is a bit much. Even if two first-round defeats is a bit surprising.

There's definitely more money in the Scottish Championship than in the LOI, but that doesn't necessarily make it of a higher standard. There's probably no country in Europe equal to or bigger than Ireland who's league doesn't offer more money than the LOI - even in poorer countries.

Only a number of years of participation in the Irn Bru Cup would give an accurate reflection of the comparative standards. Let's not forget that Linfield won the first ever Setanta Cup at a time when they weren't even IL champions, so it took the following years to see a truer reflection of where the LOI and IL were via that competition.

[redobit]

Sligo were always going to face a difficult challenge, but home advantage should have helped them.




It was a pretty even game. Of course I'm biased but a draw probably would have been a fairer result. We gifted them the first goal when we were playing well - Sharkey came across for a ball, slipped and they scored. We didn't start Schlingerman or Russell either. Talking to their fans it was their first team out too. Dundalk would wipe the floor with them.

[Straightstory]

Would win any tournament for 'most complete waste of time' tournament.

[EatYerGreens]

Would win any tournament for 'most complete waste of time' tournament.

Travel aside, t's no less a waste of time than the Setanta Cup was IMO. It's certainly more competitive anyway. And like the Setanta, it has some value in scoping out whether there is potential in cross-jurisdiction competitions. A European Super League is probably an inevitability in football at some point, so it would be helpful for the smaller leagues in this corner of the continent to have some sense of how would be the best way to respond to that if it happened.

[sbgawa]

I agree EYG but given the likelihood that LOI teams in general won't make the group stages of Europe you'd have to wonder would we not be better off letting Cork and Dundalk play in it next year.
It would be a better reflection of the league.

[Philosophizer]

I agree EYG but given the likelihood that LOI teams in general won't make the group stages of Europe you'd have to wonder would we not be better off letting Cork and Dundalk play in it next year.
It would be a better reflection of the league.

Are you mad??

Imagine the uproar if the FAI asked Dundalk or Cork to play in a lowly Scottish cup - thereby assuming that neither have a chance to get into European group stages.

[Mr A]

If one of the Irish clubs won or went close to winning this it might provide a bit of a boost to the perception of the game here but clubs exiting early will make very little impact, if any. I doubt it's a competition that has made much of an impression on the public imagination.

It's not a bad idea though and I'd love to see Harps in it some year just for the laugh and chance to get a spin to Scotland for a game.

[pineapple stu]

I'd love to see Harps in it some year just for the laugh and chance to get a spin to Scotland for a game.
Don't see what possible further justification is needed really.

Would be good to see it expanded - presuming the Scottish teams are ok obviously. Tis their tournament after all

[sbgawa]

Are you mad??

Imagine the uproar if the FAI asked Dundalk or Cork to play in a lowly Scottish cup - thereby assuming that neither have a chance to get into European group stages.

Easily sorted if the top two qualify for group stages they are replaced in the draw by next highest team.
Winning would be good for the league we can't depend on an Irish team getting to group stages every year.

[pineapple stu]

Don't see why it has to be the top teams all the time. I don't think winning the tournament outright is particularly important. Giving a small boost to mid-table clubs is a nice extra touch.

[sbgawa]

Fair enough its just unlucky that the two qualifiers this year are unrecognizable as the teams they were last year. We can hardly be as unlucky again

[pineapple stu]

Bray disappointed in fairness; they're arguably stronger than last year (taking into account recent chaos and dip in form)

Agree on Sligo - but I guess that's always the risk with Europe too.

Bray/Bohs in line for the competition next year at the moment, assuming qualification stays the same and the Cup winners finish top four.

[EatYerGreens]

Fair enough its just unlucky that the two qualifiers this year are unrecognizable as the teams they were last year. We can hardly be as unlucky again

That's the danger of a summer league though, and could very easily happen again.

It's almost a year since Bray and Sligo's placing in the league qualified them for the Irn Bru. For Crusaders, Linfield, TNS etc it's only been 4 months. A lot can happen teams in-between - especially ones that weren't challenging for the league, and will therefore struggle to hold good players in the transfer windows.

So there's a good chance we'll be as unlucky again

[EatYerGreens]

I see TNS have drawn Elgin at home in the next round of this. I bet they compound Bray's misery by winning.

Linfield face Dundee United away, which has the potential to be a big fixture. The sort that LOI clubs should aspire to be involved with.

[outspoken]

Problem with this cup will nearly always be the team that finishes 5th/6th the year previous are either going to be pushing for a European place next season or like Sligo they will have gone the other direction and are in a relegation scrap so neither can afford to concentrate on this over vital league points. Now obviously Bray are pretty much out of the European race but they are a special case given what's happened at the club this season.

[EatYerGreens]

Problem with this cup will nearly always be the team that finishes 5th/6th the year previous are either going to be pushing for a European place next season or like Sligo they will have gone the other direction and are in a relegation scrap so neither can afford to concentrate on this over vital league points. Now obviously Bray are pretty much out of the European race but they are a special case given what's happened at the club this season.

The only special case with regards Bray is that they shouldn't have been in contention for a European place at all in the first place.

It was only unsustainable financial doping that saw them bank early results which have flattered them since the wheels came off the whole project. They're lucky not to be involved in the relegation dogfight.

[Seagull]

It was only unsustainable financial doping that saw them bank early results which have flattered them since the wheels came off the whole project.

I know, PSG, Man City, Bray, scandalous the money they're spending! For the record, all Bray players have had their wages paid in full this season.

[EatYerGreens]

I know, PSG, Man City, Bray, scandalous the money they're spending! For the record, all Bray players have had their wages paid in full this season.

Let's all pretend that whole soap opera that's unfolded over he Summer simply didn't happen then, eh ? ;)

How's Wicklow County Council's quest for an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile going these days btw ?

[littlebray]

How's Wicklow County Council's quest for an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile going these days btw ?

What's the Korean for "three, two, one ... zero!"?

[Seagull]

Let's all pretend that whole soap opera that's unfolded over he Summer simply didn't happen then, eh ? ;)

How's Wicklow County Council's quest for an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile going these days btw ?

You're a gas man alright, still with the NK jokes months later. There was no 'Financial Doping' at Bray.

[EatYerGreens]

You're a gas man alright, still with the NK jokes months later.

Well - it was your Chairman who said it ! :D


There was no 'Financial Doping' at Bray.

Financial doping is the process of pumping money into a football club so that it can perform above its natural level.

What happened at Bray was clearly financial doping, and the fact that the club instantly went into major financial crisis and couldn't cover player wages for more than a week when Mulvey closed his chequebook proved that fact.

[Seagull]

Well - it was your Chairman who said it ! :D



Financial doping is the process of pumping money into a football club so that it can perform above its natural level.

What happened at Bray was clearly financial doping, and the fact that the club instantly went into major financial crisis and couldn't cover player wages for more than a week when Mulvey closed his chequebook proved that fact.

'Perform above it's natural level' What the hell are you talking about, who decides a club's 'natural level'? Like I said previously, all players have been paid at Bray this season.

[Mr A]

In all fairness, even your former chairman was very clear that Bray Wanderers make no financial sense this year. Without the developers pumping in money out of the goodness of their hearts Bray would be nowhere near where they are. That said, there are loads of clubs around the league with backing of various levels. But Bray is an extreme example.

[EatYerGreens]

'Perform above it's natural level' What the hell are you talking about, who decides a club's 'natural level'? Like I said previously, all players have been paid at Bray this season.

A club's natural level is that which its regular finances allow. As tends to be shown by how they perform over time.

Bray's income, attendances and performances since they started in senior football do not make them a Top 3 club. Only an unsustainable injection of external cash made that possible for a period this year.

The fact that you're trying to deny this is true is deeply worrying, when even your own Chairman admitted it.

[Seagull]

A club's natural level is that which its regular finances allow. As tends to be shown by how they perform over time.

Bray's income, attendances and performances since they started in senior football do not make them a Top 3 club. Only an unsustainable injection of external cash made that possible for a period this year.

The fact that you're trying to deny this is true is deeply worrying, when even your own Chairman admitted it.

Our (former) chairman is an idiot and no-one should believe a word out of his mouth. He issued a statement that caused consternation but still the players were paid. He wasn't the one investing money in the club. At the start of the season that investor couldn't have known that his circumstances would change. Your allegation of 'financial doping' was hysterical. Football clubs prosper when money is invested in them, Bray aren't the only team in the League propped up by wealthy benefactors. What club do you support by the way since you're so interested in Bray's affairs?

[Ezeikial]

What club do you support by the way since you're so interested in Bray's affairs?

Classic foot.ie line

[EatYerGreens]

Football clubs prosper when money is invested in them

Firstly - no-one 'invests' in Irish football. They at best donate.

Secondly - football clubs with money pumped into them tend to prosper for only a relatively short period. And often they face real problems and sometimes die when that funding source inevitably dries up. Learn the lesson from history here.


Bray aren't the only team in the League propped up by wealthy benefactors.

Indeed. Though they are the only one to unravel spectacularly in the public eye for it this season.


What club do you support by the way since you're so interested in Bray's affairs?

Tubbercurry Tornadoes.

And I'm interested in all Irish football clubs. Hence why I'm on an Irish football forum. If I was overly interested in Bray, I'd be on their own forum instead.

[Seagull]

Firstly - no-one 'invests' in Irish football. They at best donate.

Secondly - football clubs with money pumped into them tend to prosper for only a relatively short period. And often they face real problems and sometimes die when that funding source inevitably dries up. Learn the lesson from history here.



Indeed. Though they are the only one to unravel spectacularly in the public eye for it this season.



Tubbercurry Tornadoes.

And I'm interested in all Irish football clubs. Hence why I'm on an Irish football forum. If I was overly interested in Bray, I'd be on their own forum instead.

The financial dopers will be fine, don't you be worrying about us. This is an Irn Bru thread which had two LOI clubs competing but all your negative comments are on one of those clubs. If you were only interested in Bray you say...