Republic of Ireland v Austria - Sunday 11th June 2017 - World Cup 2018 Qualifier

[Charlie Darwin]

I haven't watched it back but I was there. We had a couple of chances but we largely sat off them and allowed them to play around us, regardless of getting near their box a couple of times.

[DeLorean]

I haven't watched it back but I was there.

You win again Paul.

[p2011]

I was going to post a few thoughts on the game, but I have to say that Fixer's account above matches my first viewing of the match (on tv). I can remember us pressing them a lot in the first half and having them playing back and forth across their penalty area. Their keeper looked uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. Austria did have some possession, but almost always in areas that were not dangerous (just like Bosnia home - the person beside me: "they're dominating us", me: "they're not, look where they're having their possession, in the middle third, they're not hurting us at all"). I really thought we looked better than Austria and looked like we could move up a few gears in the first half, whereas Austria were playing about as well as they could expect.

I can understand not playing Hoolahan from the start, but I wouldn't agree with it. Perhaps there is some injury issue we don't know about. Trust can't be the issue: he played the full 90 mins against Germany at home last time around and wasn't hauled off when we were defending our lead. At least MON eventually brings him on and is generally prepared to mix things up, change our shape, and roll the dice as the game pushes on - all things Trap almost never did. It was almost funny how many attacking players were on the field at the end: we finished with Walters, Murphy, Hoolahan, McClean, McGeady, Hendrick, plus Brady as a left back and two centre halves who went up for set pieces.

I really can't understand how people listen to the RTE panel and take them seriously. There is no choice between Hoolahan and Whelan - they're chalk and cheese, completely different types of player doing completely different jobs. Certain members of the panel seem to think midfielders are midfielders.

[DeLorean]

I'm really looking forward to watching the match back again after Fixer and p2011's reports. I was stationed in the corner of the lower tier, behind the goals where Walters scored, so I don't think it's the best position for a good overview.

I can agree with some of the comments straight off though, especially about Christie. I didn't think he was that bad at all. Coleman's had plenty of similar type performances for us - disappointing in an attacking sense but doing most of his defensive work reasonably well.

I wouldn't have thought we had penned Austria back for the most of it but would have completely agreed that they didn't look particularly threatening either. The moved the ball around well but never looked like stretching us too much.

It's a point well made about the chances and near chances we created too, I suppose on reflection we were the more threatening overall.

I don't think many posters on here are influenced by the Dunphy narrative though to be fair, but the more casual fan probably is.


There is no choice between Hoolahan and Whelan - they're chalk and cheese, completely different types of player doing completely different jobs. Certain members of the panel seem to think midfielders are midfielders.

I can't speak for the RTÉ panel but I did feel there was a choice to be made between Hoolahan and Whelan in the lead up to the game. Obviously they weren't vying for the same position though. I was thinking he might have went with Arter and Hendrick as the central pair which would have freed up a spot for Hoolahan.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought we were brutal in first half. I haven't heard Dunphy. We were better in second half. We could have won 2-0 or lost 2-0. Both teams had chances but over the 90 we were better overall.

O'Neill must take a lot of the blame. All the talk before the game was about positivity. He opted for a conservative midfield and, regardless of who played, the players lacked edge and authority from the start. we responded well, but we usually do.

[shakermaker1982]

I seriously do not buy into this Whelan hyperbole. He wasn't crap but he wasn't excellent. He was a 6 out of 10. Hendrick and Arter had shockers but Whelan needs to be moved on. He's actually a bit more positive for Stoke than he is for us.

I play CB or CM on a Sunday. If I was at CB and my central midfield constantly ran away from the ball when defenders had it (watch the tape) or kept passing the ball back to me I'd be asking what exactly do you do for the team? He marks space and makes the odd interception but this no risk ball playing means we resort to hoofing the ball away because the central midfielders don't want to take responsibility. His passing stats will be through the roof but that's because it goes back to Duffy or Randolph.

I think we've beaten Italy, Germany and Austria away without him starting and did not concede so it's not as if we cannot do well without him. I'd give Jeff a run in the side as the 'regista'. Hoolahan in the 10. Long up top and Walters wide right.

The manager deserves criticism for the style of play - it was Trap era caveman stuff and I don't have a pre-agenda. We've played well numerous times under the MO'N regime but the other night was well below bar. PICK the BALL players.

[DeLorean]

Whelan started in Vienna but went off early enough. It only reinforces your point though as we improved after that.

[Stuttgart88]

But he clogs up space :)

[Stuttgart88]

The manager deserves criticism for the style of play - it was Trap era caveman stuff and I don't have a pre-agenda. We've played well numerous times under the MO'N regime but the other night was well below bar. PICK the BALL players.Ditto

[Fixer82]

I seriously do not buy into this Whelan hyperbole. He wasn't crap but he wasn't excellent. He was a 6 out of 10. Hendricks and Arter had shockers but Whelan needs to be moved on. He's actually a bit more positive for Stoke than he is for us.

I play CB or CM on a Sunday. If I was at CB and my central midfield constantly ran away from the ball when defenders had it (watch the tape) or kept passing the ball back to me I'd be asking what exactly do you do for the team? He marks space and makes the odd interception but this no risk ball playing means we resort to hoofing the ball away because the central midfielders don't want to take responsibility. His passing stats will be through the roof but that's because it goes back to Duffy or Randolph.

I think we've beaten Italy, Germany and Austria away without him starting and did not concede so it's not as if we cannot do well without him. I'd give Jeff a run in the side as the 'regista'. Hoolahan in the 10. Long up top and Walters wide right.

The manager deserves criticism for the style of play - it was Trap era caveman stuff and I don't have a pre-agenda. We've played well numerous times under the MO'N regime but the other night was well below bar. PICK the BALL players.

I agree. Pick the ball players. I think nearly all of us wanted Hoolahan to start. Hendrick hasn't done much for us since he scored against Serbia though so he should have been dropped. Or at least be the man taken off when the changes were being rung.
Arter, at least was getting into goal scoring positions. McClean had a glorious chance to play him in in second half but went solo

[jbyrne]

I seriously do not buy into this Whelan hyperbole. He wasn't crap but he wasn't excellent. He was a 6 out of 10.


no one is saying he was excellent on sunday but rather defending him for being singled for criticism out by some.
Whelan was still one of our better players sunday but he didn't have to be excellent to be so

[tetsujin1979]

no one is saying he was excellent on sunday but rather defending him for being singled for criticism out by some.
Whelan was still one of our better players sunday but he didn't have to be excellent to be so
Exactly. He wasn't outstanding, but neither did he do wanting to deserve some of the criticism he received after the game

[DeLorean]

no one is saying he was excellent on sunday

Fixer did say that. Presume that's what Shakermaker was referring to.


Whelan had an excellent game. Barely put a foot wrong. But Dunphy's narrative feeds into the public narrative. It's getting tiresome. In fact, it got tiresome years ago!

[Fixer82]

Fixer did say that. Presume that's what Shakermaker was referring to.

I thought Whelan did his job excellently. He's not Hoolahan so let's stop comparing them (not you guys, RTÉ panel)

[Charlie Darwin]

I thought Whelan was very good by any measure. Not 10/10 good but 7/10, which was better than anyone else in green.

[liamoo11]

I thought Whelan was very good by any measure. Not 10/10 good but 7/10, which was better than anyone else in green.

Lads used to say whelan did all this amazing work off the ball blocking off space so lads don't run at our back four. On Sunday Austria got to run through the middle of midfield at least three or four times right onto our back four. So why do lads think whelan had a good game? He completely neglected his sitting role to end up in the attacking third where he added minimal creativity. He is so slow then he can't get back to cover ground when the ball is list. McCarthy been fit next season to play that defensive role and cover ground to allow us to push our midfield high to press without leaving us open like on Sunday is vital. Please god he leaves everton I'd even accept Celtic at this stage!

[Charlie Darwin]

I counted a number of times Whelan broke up attacks in the middle with Arter and Hendrick AWOL. I suppose anytime something goes wrong in midfield it's Whelan's fault though.

[irishfan86]

I'm with the Whelan wasn't the problem crowd. I was less thrilled by Arter and Hendrick, although accept that perhaps Hendrick wasn't used in a position that plays to his strengths.

[DeLorean]

I counted a number of times Whelan broke up attacks in the middle with Arter and Hendrick AWOL.

Except it wasn't Hendrick's job to break up attacks in the middle?

[Charlie Darwin]

It was his job to be in midfield, and if people were running straight through then he's not exactly blameless. Arter would take more blame, obviously.

[mark12345]

So looking ahead to Georgia on September 2 - this is where the wanton squandering of 2 points will matter most.
The lads will face a 7 hour trip to Tblisi on the morning of the 1st most likely. They'll be slightly jet lagged having crossed two time zones (3 hours time difference if I'm not mistaken).
They'll then train the following morning briefly and set up to play a game at 8pm the following night (local time) in what is likely to be heat of 27 degrees.
Safe to say that they'll be pretty drained by the time they head back to the hotel (hopefully with 3 points in the bag).
Then the following morning it will be a return flight to Dublin which will further fatigue the players (remember in years past Irish managers have always complained about tiredness of their players at this time of year).
September 3rd will be another lost day, and it will be up early the next morning for training.
Then it will be game time the following day.
Serbia on the other hand have a home game to mighty Moldova, which will translate into a confident team making the 3 hour trip to Dublin for game on Sept 5.

[DeLorean]

Georgia are a strange outfit, they played ourselves and Wales off the park away from home and can't even conjure up a win in two games against Moldova.

[mark12345]

Georgia are a strange outfit, they played ourselves and Wales off the park away from home and can't even conjure up a win in two games against Moldova.

They are a difficult opponent alright. They'll threaten us in Tblisi. We need to open our account early and hopefully hit them on the break as they come looking for an equaliser.
Team selection in that game will be crucial once again, but somehow I have lost all faith in MON's ability to see what't in front of his eyes.
Best manager in Europe when he was at Celtic, because he achieved so much with so little, but last Sunday's performance from him will stick in the craw for many years to come.

[mark12345]

Way early to be picking teams for Georgia game, but with nothing else to look forward to for three months, why not?

My 'keep the ball on the deck' team would be as follows:

Randolph in goal,
a back three of Christie, Duffy, Clark or Ward;
wing backs of Brady and McGeady (doing all the fetching and carrying from back three to distribute to midfielders and forwards)
midfield partners of McCarthy and Arter with Hoolahan sitting behind front two,
and Walters and McClean up front (Shane Long impact sub)

[DannyInvincible]

Best manager in Europe when he was at Celtic, because he achieved so much with so little, but last Sunday's performance from him will stick in the craw for many years to come.

It was a frustrating result, sure, but it wasn't a total f***-up, nor has it dashed our hopes of qualifying. We did manage a point and still have an excellent chance of qualifying. Last Sunday's result just makes that a bit more difficult than a win would have made it. If we do manage to qualify, nobody will be worrying about drawing with Austria at home in years to come. It will be seen as one of the valuable points that contributed to the overall tally that enabled us to qualify. It might stick in the craw if we miss out on qualification by a point or two - it would rightly be viewed as two points lost under such circumstances - but let's not assume disaster just yet.

[gastric]

Funny, I still feel confident that we will achieve qualification based just on my gut! Easy to criticise the midfield, but this is what happens when you pick three central midfielders who aren't the most creative. The game highlighted the need for a younger Wes to emerge (Judge?) and a younger Robbie to emerge, who that might be remains a mystery.

[Charlie Darwin]

Way early to be picking teams for Georgia game, but with nothing else to look forward to for three months, why not?

My 'keep the ball on the deck' team would be as follows:

Randolph in goal,
a back three of Christie, Duffy, Clark or Ward;
wing backs of Brady and McGeady (doing all the fetching and carrying from back three to distribute to midfielders and forwards)
midfield partners of McCarthy and Arter with Hoolahan sitting behind front two,
and Walters and McClean up front (Shane Long impact sub)
I'd avoid a back three after the last time.

[CraftyToePoke]

I'd avoid a back three after the last time.

There is merit to a three with the player pool skill set we have, but the three has to contain one, ideally two, guys quick over the ground who will operate in FB areas comfortably, as the one above would to be fair (more than the one picked in the friendly would anyway). The midfield picked in that game was a waste of everyone's time also after trekking out there. Between that and the midfield he picked Sunday and how badly that misfired it's easy to see why people are so disheartened after the summers performances and how we were improving up to that in this group.

[Charlie Darwin]

There is merit to a three with the player pool skill set we have, but the three has to contain one, ideally two, guys quick over the ground who will operate in FB areas comfortably, as the one above would to be fair (more than the one picked in the friendly would anyway). The midfield picked in that game was a waste of everyone's time also after trekking out there. Between that and the midfield he picked Sunday and how badly that misfired it's easy to see why people are so disheartened after the summers performances and how we were improving up to that in this group.
I think we looked a lot better when we had two strikers on against Austria alright. I suspect our players are a bit put out by O'Neill changing formations all the time and they operate best within a defined system like the one that largely worked against Italy and France. We badly need Long too up front as we don't have anyone else who can stretch a team when we play long ball.

[BonnieShels]

I thought Whelan was very good by any measure. Not 10/10 good but 7/10, which was better than anyone else in green.

I thought he was definitely a 5/7.

[bennocelt]

They are a difficult opponent alright. They'll threaten us in Tblisi. We need to open our account early and hopefully hit them on the break as they come looking for an equaliser.
Team selection in that game will be crucial once again, but somehow I have lost all faith in MON's ability to see what't in front of his eyes.
Best manager in Europe when he was at Celtic, because he achieved so much with so little, but last Sunday's performance from him will stick in the craw for many years to come.


Usually agree with you Mark but what, he won the SPL a few times, wow:p

[mark12345]

Usually agree with you Mark but what, he won the SPL a few times, wow:p

Wasn't really thinking of his exploits in the SPL. More of beating teams like Juventus and Barcelona in Europe. And he took Celtic to extra time in the UEFA Cup Final in Seville, in a five goal thriller.

[samhaydenjr]

I just thought I'd note the importance of the never-say-die attitude that seems to have been instilled in the team - this is the sixth competitive international under MON where we've scored in the last ten minutes to improve a result (Georgia, Germany, Poland, Italy, Serbia and Austria).

[DannyInvincible]

I just thought I'd note the importance of the never-say-die attitude that seems to have been instilled in the team - this is the sixth competitive international under MON where we've scored in the last ten minutes to improve a result (Georgia, Germany, Poland, Italy, Serbia and Austria).

That's one way of putting it and, whilst I was delighted those goals came and have been generally happy to credit O'Neill for making the necessary changes - something the inflexible Trap may not have done - there's also another (admittedly pessimistic) way of looking at it, or, to be more specific, there's another way of looking at those games where the goal improved the result from a potential loss to a draw. As I wrote in the "opponent watch" thread:


The pattern of play against our main group competitors at home seems to be to play very cautiously - giving our opponents a greater deal of respect than they probably deserve - and then making a big push for the final quarter or so. From what I can recall (and correct me if I'm wrong), against Poland (in the last qualification campaign), Wales and Austria all at home, that late burst proved to be just too late for us to snatch the three points and we've ended up with draws in games when we really could have won them had we started as we finished. Had we had another ten minutes or so in each of those three games, I think we could have won them. Despite having clawed back and squaring things up from being a goal down in two of those games, the end-result of a draw still felt oddly frustrating or irritating in the immediate aftermath considering how strongly I think we had finished those games.

It's annoying that a conservative or overly cautious approach from the outset has allowed us to fall behind in the first place in some of the games mentioned before we've really utilised our full attacking potential late on, by which time it has often proved too late to take the very-much-achievable full three points on offer. Sure, it's great we didn't give up on getting back into those games, but it's just such a shame we left the spirited and gallant comeback efforts so late.

[Stuttgart88]

For me there are two issues, although maybe linked to each other:

(1) the midfield selection was conservative
(2) despite all the fighting talk in the build up, the players started like rabbits in the headlights. This was a bigger failing for me. MON is renowned for his motivational skills. They didn't seem to work on Sunday.

[bennocelt]

Wasn't really thinking of his exploits in the SPL. More of beating teams like Juventus and Barcelona in Europe. And he took Celtic to extra time in the UEFA Cup Final in Seville, in a five goal thriller.

True but I was referring more to the style of play which was pretty boring at times.

Also not much tactical nous

He would never get a big job at Man United, or Arsenal, for sure

[DeLorean]

Yet David Moyes did.

[jbyrne]

True but I was referring more to the style of play which was pretty boring at times.

Also not much tactical nous


cant agree with this. The wins over Germany, Bosnia and Italy in the Euros were exciting. Also, some excellent football played in the first 60 mins against France in the euros before we ran out of steam and a very decent away win in Austria. You cant beat the likes of Germany, Italy, Bosnia and Austria away without some sort of decent tactical nous.

I have had mixed views about MON since he got the job but not really sure he can be criticised too much overall.

We have some decent players and we play to our strengths as best we can. The fact that the discussion around our fortunes and style of play centre around a 35 year old championship player speaks volumes of the type and standard of player we have.

I think many an Irish supporter has unrealistic expectations really.

[tetsujin1979]

getting a little away from the match topic, if you want to discuss MON's management/tactical history there's a thread for that: http://foot.ie/threads/184787-Martin-O-Neill-and-Roy-Keane

[DeLorean]

I see that Icelandic clap hasn't run its course yet. I squirm in my seat when it's going on. They were actually doing it in the lead up to an Austrian corner in the first half and then to an Irish corner in the second. Not sure who it's supposed to help/encourage. All I know is that it has to go.

[Siberian]

I see that Icelandic clap hasn't run its course yet. I squirm in my seat when it's going on. They were actually doing it in the lead up to an Austrian corner in the first half and then to an Irish corner in the second. Not sure who it's supposed to help/encourage. All I know is that it has to go.

I couldn't agree more, nearly as embarrassing as booing Glasgow Rangers players. For a nation renowed for playwrights, song writers and story tellers we're brutal when it comes to penning a few football chants. Do we actually have any originals????

[tetsujin1979]

it was being done before the Euros.

[Siberian]

Seemingly started by Motherwell fans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8iC1Yf6h84

[OwlsFan]

I see that Icelandic clap hasn't run its course yet. I squirm in my seat when it's going on. They were actually doing it in the lead up to an Austrian corner in the first half and then to an Irish corner in the second. Not sure who it's supposed to help/encourage. All I know is that it has to go.

Not as embarrassing as the James McLean has less than fond feelings for the Queen song.

[DeLorean]

Not as embarrassing as the James McLean has less than fond feelings for the Queen song.

Haven't heard that at the last couple of games thankfully.

[KrisLetang]

I see that Icelandic clap hasn't run its course yet. I squirm in my seat when it's going on.

Who gave it to you, that guy you met at the bar in Reykjavik? Can't they give you something for it?

[DeLorean]

Hahaha.... walked into that! :o

[OwlsFan]

Haven't heard that at the last couple of games thankfully.

You're obviously not behind the goal. Sung almost every time James makes a significant contribution.

[Real ale Madrid]

You're obviously not behind the goal.

Well he is obviously not there now - the game was over a week ago!

[DeLorean]

You're obviously not behind the goal. Sung almost every time James makes a significant contribution.

I was in the corner behind the goals that Walters scored into the last day, not directly behind the goal. Didn't notice anything.