Mexico v Republic of Ireland - Met Life Stadium NJ - Friday, 2nd June 2017 - Friendly

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I concur it's a marginal decision in the greater scheme of things and it may be churlish of me to moan about it.

[Charlie Darwin]

Manning has been in and out of the team too. I'm not saying he's a bad option either.

[samhaydenjr]

Browne hasn't really nailed down a first team spot though.

Manning has impressed me more, from what I have seen of him, and appears to have more upside.

More versatile too.

Gleeson and O'Kane are worthy of a greater look based on Iceland, so I don't see much scope for Browne to get a look in.

FWIW Browne has played 35 times this season, although I believe a fair few of those were off the bench - Manning has played 17 times, although he only broke into the team in late 2016. With over 70 appearances at Championship level, I'd still give the edge to Browne. But they're both still young - Browne is 22 and Manning is nearly 21 so hopefully by the time we start our Qualifiers for the next World Cup, they'll both be serious candidates for the team.

[Olé Olé]

FWIW Browne has played 35 times this season, although I believe a fair few of those were off the bench - Manning has played 17 times, although he only broke into the team in late 2016. With over 70 appearances at Championship level, I'd still give the edge to Browne. But they're both still young - Browne is 22 and Manning is nearly 21 so hopefully by the time we start our Qualifiers for the next World Cup, they'll both be serious candidates for the team.

Have to agree with this. It sends a positive message to Browne, who has accumulated multiples of the appearances at under 21 level for us and at senior level in the Championship than Manning has.

Manning has looked really good and has earned the plaudits but Browne has the extra bit of experience and has a lot of games played for a defensive midfielder of that age.

Nobody has mentioned that Browne got the nod over Chris Forrester yet. Forrester really needs to get his move this summer.

[DeLorean]

Like Danny's logic regarding Maguire, I wonder if Browne's inclusion is partially based on convenience. Would he have been Cork-based now that Preston's season has ended? The squad is due to meet up this morning in Fota Island - http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/preston-s-alan-browne-a-late-call-up-to-ireland-squad-1.3092517

Of course, O'Neill and Keane would have been keeping a close eye on Preston anyway so it's no surprise that they'd know more about Browne than some of the others mentioned.

[backstothewall]

With Shane Long set to miss out and with O'Neill demonstrating that he's prepared to call up further players who haven't been named in his provisional squad, I'm hopeful Sean Maguire might still get a nod over the next few days, even if it's just to have the player train with the squad during the Fota Island training camp. The camp will be less than 20 kilometres down the road from Cork city (where I assume Maguire lives), after all, so why not bring him in? What's there to lose?

Cryptic but you may get your wish.2558

[tetsujin1979]

wonder if "newest" means a first call up for a player?

[Charlie Darwin]

Considering they're getting new gear I'd say so.

[DannyInvincible]

Considering they're getting new gear I'd say so.

How do we know it's new? Looks creased to me. :laugh:

[tetsujin1979]

They've only gone and bloody done it! - https://www.instagram.com/p/BUb6IV6FVNU/

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

One minute of professional football.

I wonder if there are any other reasons they called him up?

I predicted Stephen Dawson so I was half right.

[Diggs246]

Fair play to the lad. Not a bad week for him

[DeLorean]

I wonder if there are any other reasons they called him up?

https://p.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/render/coaster-square/w-110/c-fff/keep-calm-and-tie-him-up.png?v2

[Closed Account]

Mentioned here yesterday
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/may/22-may/rice-its-dream-come-true
(https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/may/22-may/rice-its-dream-come-true)
http://www.insidefutbol.com/2017/05/22/west-ham-youngster-promises-to-remain-grounded/337729/
Wrong link earlier

(https://foreverwestham.com/2017/05/blog-topics/championship-side-line-up-approach-for-west-ham-starlet/)

“Terry Westley called me and I was sat at home and just couldn’t believe it when he said Martin O’Neil had called him up to say he wants me to go to the training camp. My heart was pounding and I was thinking ‘Is this true?’.
“Now I’m focused on that and joining up on Tuesday. I’ve just got to work hard in training and try to impress Martin O’Neil and Roy Keane.”

Read more at https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/may/22-may/rice-its-dream-come-true#XiB3QMZeK12iOE7d.99


Not unusual to call up young lads to train with them similiar to Jack Byrne, Alan Browne and a good few others down through the years. Good experience and can only be a positive for him.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Byrne had a full season and Browne had several when they were called up.

I think it's a bit ridiculous TBH.

I'm not even sure there's a precedent for it.

Unheard of for a player to get called up without playing senior football and/or at a higher level than League Two, like Rice and O'Dowd.

It looks like a recruitment exercise more than a footballing decision.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

*O'Dowda

Even Conor Clifford had League One experience when he was called up.

And his subsequent career trajectory displays why that was a questionable decision.

[DeLorean]

Mentioned here yesterday
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/may/22-may/rice-its-dream-come-true

https://foreverwestham.com/2017/05/blog-topics/championship-side-line-up-approach-for-west-ham-starlet/

How did that get past the foot.ie instant news-breakers!

Am I missing something on that second link, I don't see anything about Rice?

[Closed Account]

I reckon he's only called up to train, i.e not in the actual squad that will travel to US. I wonder how many players are actually there this week? James McClean is in Dubai as far as I can see and I imagine a few others have short holidays planned.

The main 23 squad probably won't be whittled down until after the Mexico game.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I reckon he's only called up to train, i.e not in the actual squad that will travel to US. I wonder how many players are actually there this week? James McClean is in Dubai as far as I can see and I imagine a few others have short holidays planned.

The main 23 squad probably won't be whittled down until after the Mexico game.

Ten center backs in the squad according to Balls.ie.

[Closed Account]

Ten center backs in the squad according to Balls.ie.
I know yes, but what I mean is, according to O'Neill not everyone named in the extended squad is training for the Mexico/Uruguay games. He name checks the premier league players and playoff players specifically.
Being generous that would mean O'Shea, Wilson, Long and McShane, maybe add in lads who've played an awful lot of games like Keogh. We could end up with an almost B international squad travelling over.
It'll be interesting if nothing else.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I guess it will effectively be a B International, which I have been calling for for quite a while.

Hopefully the Uruguay game will see participation from some of our stronger players.

[tetsujin1979]

Two more callups: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867025688049709056

.@CorkCityFC (https://twitter.com/CorkCityFC) duo Mark McNulty & Alan Smith to join up with Martin O'Neill's Ireland squad for training camp in Fota Island. #COYBIG (https://twitter.com/hashtag/COYBIG?src=hash)

[CraftyToePoke]

I think it's a bit ridiculous TBH.

You would find the negative in a lottery win wouldn't you ?

There were rumours of Arsenal interest, he breaks into a Prem side which in case you haven't noticed, Irish players are doing less and less, the guy is dual qualified and is openly delighted by this. It shows forward thinking, MON thinking beyond MONs time as manager most likely, it shows awareness of talent emerging. It only ticks positive boxes.

Yet, still you aren't happy. Nonsense from you again in my opinion.

[Closed Account]

19 man training squad in Fota Island this week:

Republic of Ireland Training Squad
Goalkeepers: Mark McNulty, Alan Smith (Cork City)
Defenders: Cyrus Christie, Alex Pearce, Richard Keogh (Derby County), Shane Duffy (Brighton & Hove Albion), Andy Boyle (Preston North End), Kevin Long (Burnley) Declan Rice (West Ham United), John Egan (Brentford)
Midfielders: Eunan O'Kane (Leeds United), Alan Browne, Daryl Horgan (Preston North End), Conor Hourihane (Aston Villa), Wes Hoolahan (Norwich City), Stephen Gleeson (Birmingham City), Callum O'Dowda (Bristol City)
Forwards: David McGoldrick (Ipswich Town), Daryl Murphy (Newcastle United)

http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/ireland-mnt-squad-confirmed-for-training-camp

[Park_Lane]

19 man training squad in Fota Island this week:

Republic of Ireland Training Squad
Goalkeepers: Mark McNulty, Alan Smith (Cork City)
Defenders: Cyrus Christie, Alex Pearce, Richard Keogh (Derby County), Shane Duffy (Brighton & Hove Albion), Andy Boyle (Preston North End), Kevin Long (Burnley) Declan Rice (West Ham United), John Egan (Brentford)
Midfielders: Eunan O'Kane (Leeds United), Alan Browne, Daryl Horgan (Preston North End), Conor Hourihane (Aston Villa), Wes Hoolahan (Norwich City), Stephen Gleeson (Birmingham City), Callum O'Dowda (Bristol City)
Forwards: David McGoldrick (Ipswich Town), Daryl Murphy (Newcastle United)

http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/ireland-mnt-squad-confirmed-for-training-camp

Not sure in the point in calling up 2 Cork City goalkeepers. Basically saying - your just here to make up the numbers for training lads. Should have another 1st choice keeper there, Schlingerman or Supple(Keane would love that) just to run the rule over them in case of an all out goalkeping crisis.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

You would find the negative in a lottery win wouldn't you ?

There were rumours of Arsenal interest, he breaks into a Prem side which in case you haven't noticed, Irish players are doing less and less, the guy is dual qualified and is openly delighted by this. It shows forward thinking, MON thinking beyond MONs time as manager most likely, it shows awareness of talent emerging. It only ticks positive boxes.

Yet, still you aren't happy. Nonsense from you again in my opinion.

He hasn't broken into the team! He came on in second half stoppage time during the last game of the season.

Reece Grego-Cox, Kevin Toner and Michael Harriman accumulated more minutes in the PL before struggling to get minutes at L1 and L2 clubs (Cox and Toner) and establishing himself in L2 (Harriman).

The Arsenal rumors are just that. Rumors. He wouldn't be signing for their first team, he would be signing for their youth system, and as Henderson and Crowley have shown, it's hard to make the step up to senior football.

I doubt they've even seen him play TBH.

Calling someone up because their eligible is ridiculous. But if they're going to go down that road it would have made more sense to call up Josh Cullen.

Calling up a forward would show more forward thinking rather than calling up a tenth center back, pardon the pun.

[CraftyToePoke]

Calling up a forward would show more forward thinking rather than calling up a tenth center back, pardon the pun.

Pretty sure if we had a striker who played a minute at Prem level last weekend he'd be along for the jolly too.

And there's nothing wrong with protecting the asset, if England are poking behind the scenes as they are known to do and this helps send a message that the guy is happy to go to a senior squad gathering with Ireland then it's win win far as I'm concerned.

People wants these friendlies to explore options beyond the usual squad lists and here we are.

[Closed Account]

I still think it's too early to read anything into Browne, Rice, McNulty and Smiths call ups to a decimated training squad. It seems unlikely the FAI would fly 42 players to the US.
Chances are MON or a member of his staff was at the Burnley-West Ham game and asked Declan Rice if he would like to come over to a training camp. (a training camp that seems optional by all MONs quotes). Similiar with Browne.
Still a small chance Maguire, Kevin O'Connor or some other players could be asked, maybe Ryan Delaney who's played LB assuming Cork release them or they are fit after playing last night.
You can get all the recommendations from club managers, scouts, ex pros about prospective players but it's best to see them yourself on the training ground.

[Closed Account]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/many-fresh-faces-among-martin-o-neill-s-19-man-training-squad-1.3093816?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


The group will break up on Thursday evening before a revised squad gathers on Sunday in Dublin ahead of Monday’s departure for the United States where Ireland are due to play Mexico next Thursday.
It is not yet clear how many senior players O’Neill intends to bring to New Jersey or how many of the current group will remain with the squad right through until the Austria game on June 11th.

[Olé Olé]

Browne is probably in a similar position to Smith and McNulty- he was in Cork. Maybe that's unfair. He probably is worth a call up but it's an easy call to make too.

Delighted to see Rice get a call. I don't think there's ever been anything from his side that would lead us to think he would jump ship. The lad appears to have absolute buckets of potential and is playing at such a high level at such a young age. I don't think any of the players that TOWK has named there have shown as much promise by that age as Rice has.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Exactly. I don't think there's been any indication Rice would jump ship. So why call him up when he hasn't made a single senior appearance at club level?

I get that he has potential. But so did Crowley, Henderson, Dixon and several others at a similar age.

I'd go as far as to say it's debatable whether Grealish would have merited an Intl debut based on what he's done, if he had stayed with us.

He's unlikely to make an appearance against Austria anyway, so if he is inclined (doesn't look like it) he could still opt for England.

Cullen, Manning, Forrester and Darragh Lenihan must be scratching their heads.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

This link says Rice was called up to ward off interest from England.

http://www.football.london/west-ham-united-fc/players/west-ham-teenager-declan-rice-13080166

[Charlie Darwin]

Calling up a forward would show more forward thinking
Can't argue with that.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Daniel McDonnell reaching the same conclusion as myself.

http://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/shock-irish-call-for-west-hams-rice-after-joy-of-premier-league-debut-35749255.html

[tetsujin1979]

few of the squad were at the Cork City game last night: https://twitter.com/Thomas_Stafford/status/867091760027250689

[DeLorean]

few of the squad were at the Cork City game last night: https://twitter.com/Thomas_Stafford/status/867091760027250689

Cork City were playing away in Sligo on Monday night. From reading the comments that appears to be the Beamish Cup Final between Cobh Wanderers and Ringmahon Rangers at Turners Cross. Alan Browne started out at Ringmahon.

[Olé Olé]

This link says Rice was called up to ward off interest from England.

http://www.football.london/west-ham-united-fc/players/west-ham-teenager-declan-rice-13080166

It says that. But it refers to the Irish Independent. In effect, it's regurgitating McDonnell's assertion that "it's difficult to avoid the conclusion" which isn't very conclusive at all.

I really think that arriving at this conclusion ignores the fact that this lad is clearly one of the best prospects to play underage for us in some time. To captain your under 23 club side at 18. To make your PL debut at 18. The other names you mention that could feel disgruntled were never developing at this rate. Lenihan found his feet at Championship level at 22, for example.

Maybe MON is right to set the PL as the standard for call ups. Kevin Long called up before Darragh Lenihan? That demonstrates to Lenihan that he has to aim for the top level before a call up. He has to set himself aside from all the other lads at Championship and League One level who have minimal or no PL experience. What sets Greg Cunningham aside from Matt Doherty aside from Derrick Williams for LB? Hard to say. All have won POTY At their club this year or last. But Stephen Ward has consistently managed to get himself into a PL side. Cyrus Christie managed to nip in ahead of these lads by virtue of the fact that he was playing Championship whilst Cunningham and Williams (and maybe Doherty) were in L1.

I'm not saying it's the perfect yard mark as MON acknowledged during the week that he has a lot of Championship players. Most of our defenders and midfielders have come in off the back of PL experience bar some exceptions (Christie, Keogh, Duffy came in at opportune times when we were short on numbers). McShane and Pearce, for instance, can be marked aside on that basis.

[Stuttgart88]

I have to say this is the funniest squad announcement of all time, for so many reasons.

[Olé Olé]

I have to say this is the funniest squad announcement of all time, for so many reasons.

Nobody has mentioned Alan Smith was at Rangers... Grrrrrrrrr

[DannyInvincible]

It says that. But it refers to the Irish Independent. In effect, it's regurgitating McDonnell's assertion that "it's difficult to avoid the conclusion" which isn't very conclusive at all.

Aidan Fitzmaurice also said (http://foot.ie/threads/218739-Declan-Rice?p=1921643&viewfull=1#post1921643) "it's thought that this call-up to the senior panel is a move by the FAI to fend off any attempt by England to 'sign' Rice", but that's similarly vague and inconclusive.

It's thought by whom?... Fitzmaurice? Dan McDonnell? The wider media? Supporters? Or is the thinking from people in the know? The FAI? Martin O'Neill?

[DannyInvincible]

I have to say this is the funniest squad announcement of all time, for so many reasons.

I also think it's unusual myself given the additional or late call-ups - some of them very much out-of-the-blue - and then the absence of the in-form Sean Maguire, despite the selection of other Cork-based players, but care to elaborate? :)

Does O'Neill harbour a reluctance or hang-up over potentially being seen to have been led in his selections my the media? He does have a fairly lukewarm relationship with the press and can be quite sarcastic with them in press conferences. His exchanges with Tony O'Donoghue are often icy, for example, and I get the impression he likes to go against the grain. Could it be a stubbornness then on O'Neill's part that has cost Maguire a place or does he genuinely not rate the player as worthy of even a closer look?


Nobody has mentioned Alan Smith was at Rangers... Grrrrrrrrr

I hadn't even realised he was the Alan Smith who had played for Rangers. Have we ever had a Rangers player called up to the senior international squad before? (Is Smith considered an official squad call-up or is he essentially a "training prop" for the outfield squad?)

[tetsujin1979]

Aidan Fitzmaurice also said (http://foot.ie/threads/218739-Declan-Rice?p=1921643&viewfull=1#post1921643) "it's thought that this call-up to the senior panel is a move by the FAI to fend off any attempt by England to 'sign' Rice", but that's similarly vague and inconclusive.

It's thought by whom?... Fitzmaurice? Dan McDonnell? The wider media? Supporters? Or is the thinking from people in the know? The FAI? Martin O'Neill?

"it is thought" = "we have no idea why, but we're not going to admit that"
See also "famous person on date with mystery partner" = "we have no idea who their partner is, but we're not going to admit that"

[DannyInvincible]

'Decline of Irish players at top level clubs shows no sign of stopping': http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/decline-of-irish-players-at-top-level-clubs-shows-no-sign-of-stopping-1.3093289


As it grows richer and more rapacious the English Premier League seems to cast a darker shadow than ever over the club competitions of neighbouring countries, but it no longer benefits their national teams in anything like the same way. In Ireland’s case the season just ended suggests the problem is becoming more and more acute.

Barely 20 players who are, or have been, available to play for the Republic featured in the English top flight since last summer. None played for a top six club over the past nine months, only a handful prospered at any of the rest and a couple of the international team’s stalwarts had seasons to forget.

[tetsujin1979]

I read that earlier, why did he say "barely 20" instead of "19"?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I think we can all reach the same conclusion, deep down, that Rice wouldn't have been called up because of his underage accomplishments if he was born in Roscommon.

I would be very surprised if O'Neill or Keane have even seen him kick a ball.

I don't think someone should get a national team call up so someone can take a look at him.

I think it's a prerequisite that management scout a player before calling him up.

And calling Rice a Premier League player is virtually the same as calling McEvoy one because he made the bench against Tromso.

Winning POTY awards over a season while playing with grown men should be a greater estimate of whether you are ready to play Intl ball.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I have to say this is the funniest squad announcement of all time, for so many reasons.

Genuine question. What does it take, barring injury, to be dropped from an O'Neill squad?

Green, Kelly and Cox have finally stopped making squads.

Quinn has been injured.

It's very hard to get out of one.

It's like the mafia.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree, and some of the omissions and inclusions confuse me. But with about 3 exceptions that I feel strongly about we're debating the margins. None of this stops this thread from amusing me though.

[Closed Account]

I think we can all reach the same conclusion, deep down, that Rice wouldn't have been called up because of his underage accomplishments if he was born in Roscommon.

That's a bit disingenuous, Jack Byrne was called up to train with them last year at the age of 19 and Alan Browne also last year at the age of 20, although Browne missed out through injury.

[tetsujin1979]

I think we can all reach the same conclusion, deep down, that Rice wouldn't have been called up because of his underage accomplishments if he was born in Roscommon.What players from Roscommon would you call up, because of their underage accomplishments


I would be very surprised if O'Neill or Keane have even seen him kick a ball.Can you prove that? Even if they haven't, you don't think they didn't consult his U19 manager?


I don't think someone should get a national team call up so someone can take a look at him.what about Jack Byrne, Callum O'Dowda, or Ian Lawlor, or (under the previous manager) Shane Duffy, Greg Cunningham, Conor Clifford


I think it's a prerequisite that management scout a player before calling him up.By that logic, Cillian Sheridan will never get a call up


And calling Rice a Premier League player is virtually the same as calling McEvoy one because he made the bench against Tromso.Nobody is calling McEvoy a Premier League player because he's never played in the Premier League. People aren't even calling him a Europa League player because he was on the bench against Tromso. People are calling Rice a Premier League player because he has played in the Premier League. It's pretty logical.


Winning POTY awards over a season while playing with grown men should be a greater estimate of whether you are ready to play Intl ball.What players who have won POTY are not in the squad?


Genuine question. What does it take, barring injury, to be dropped from an O'Neill squad?

Green, Kelly and Cox have finally stopped making squads.

Quinn has been injured.

It's very hard to get out of one.

It's like the mafia.So you want to know what it takes to be dropped from the squad, and then name players who have been dropped from the squad.

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness to TOWK I wouldn't call up anyone from Roscommon. End of.