LOI Club History Discussion

[wonder88]

Maybe a small problem LoI clubs have in getting more fans is that their team names are not inclusive/grounded in locality enough. I would rather have the original Galway Rovers than the current Utd for example. Do the City in Corks name exclude those in the county?
Could some of the stats lads on here tell us who and what year we had the first United club in the loI ? Bit off topic but I think Bohs had an offer from some company, Phillips?, to change their same for a 10 year sponsorship deal in the 1970's before name on shirts was allowed, but they turned it down I think.

[oriel]

Maybe a small problem LoI clubs have in getting more fans is that their team names are not inclusive/grounded in locality enough. I would rather have the original Galway Rovers than the current Utd for example. Do the City in Corks name exclude those in the county?
Could some of the stats lads on here tell us who and what year we had the first United club in the loI ? Bit off topic but I think Bohs had an offer from some company, Phillips?, to change their same for a 10 year sponsorship deal in the 1970's before name on shirts was allowed, but they turned it down I think.

I`m pretty sure Cork United won 3 in a row league titles in the 40's.

[seand]

Maybe a small problem LoI clubs have in getting more fans is that their team names are not inclusive/grounded in locality enough. I would rather have the original Galway Rovers than the current Utd for example. Do the City in Corks name exclude those in the county?
Could some of the stats lads on here tell us who and what year we had the first United club in the loI ? Bit off topic but I think Bohs had an offer from some company, Phillips?, to change their same for a 10 year sponsorship deal in the 1970's before name on shirts was allowed, but they turned it down I think.

Dublin United were founder member 1921. Followed by Shelbourne United in 1922 (not the same club as Shelbourne FC)

[stann]

Could some of the stats lads on here tell us who and what year we had the first United club in the loI ?
Ha, beaten to the punch!
Yep, Dublin United played the first two seasons of the Free State League, and Shelbourne United also took part in the second and third seasons, that's in addition to the original Shelbourne FC.
And of course there was the Reds United alter-ego of Shels for one season in the mid-30s, and as stated above the first Cork United, which was a League side for most of the '40s.

[wonder88]

Thanks folks for the info on the Dublin, Cork and Shelbourne Uniteds, I will have to find out more about them clubs sometime. Of course the name is only a small/tiny part of what attracts fans to go support a team, but there is a strong county loyalty is Ireland(despite them being a British imposition) and along with county colours I think clubs should use them in order to create an identity. Would Wexford change from the pink to the yellow bellies, Cork go red etc.

I was abroad during most of the Dublin City project, so don't have great knowledge of what went on, but in terms of name and colours the guy seemed to have an interesting concept. I remember reading that he was hoping that tourists would purchase the replica jerseys in Corrolls shops etc and it would be a good revenue stream for the team. Also Dubs might know, but was their a story a while back that the GAA unhappy with Leinster rugger crowd trying to latch on to their popularity by bringing out similar jerseys to theirs.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Once wearing a Limerick jersey to five a side in Dublin, I received a puzzled query along the lines of "Why not green?". I'll admit I have wondered on occasion if something like that might help attach locals more to a side, but at the end of day I like that Limerick FC have their own colors unique of the GAA team and Munster.

[oriel]

So in the modern era, well going back maybe since the 70's, who was the first of the then LOI clubs to be called 'United'

I've decided not to google, from memory I do recall Galway Rovers in oriel park around 1980, almost sure Waterford only changed to United around 82, they definitely won their leagues as Waterford in the incredible era from mid 60's to early 70's. Limerick, tough one, almost sure they were Limerick FC in the 1977 cup final v Dlk, but United when they won the league in 1980. Drogs, another tough one, I just about recall 'Drogheda FC' so I think United might have been around 1980-81 also.

Have I missed any club that went from 'FC' to 'United' around this era? I still don't know who was the first for this era to be called United, I think it's Limerick.

Ps just remembered Limerick traded as City around 85/86 ??? decent side too, they wore yellow & green. I remember a superb MF battle one season between Barry Kehoe and Tommy Lynch. 2-2 draw. If that result is true, I need to seriously get a life.

[seand]

So in the modern era, well going back maybe since the 70's, who was the first of the then LOI clubs to be called 'United'

I've decided not to google, from memory I do recall Galway Rovers in oriel park around 1980, almost sure Waterford only changed to United around 82, they definitely won their leagues as Waterford in the incredible era from mid 60's to early 70's. Limerick, tough one, almost sure they were Limerick FC in the 1977 cup final v Dlk, but United when they won the league in 1980. Drogs, another tough one, I just about recall 'Drogheda FC' so I think United might have been around 1980-81 also.

Have I missed any club that went from 'FC' to 'United' around this era? I still don't know who was the first for this era to be called United, I think it's Limerick.

Ps just remembered Limerick traded as City around 85/86 ??? decent side too, they wore yellow & green. I remember a superb MF battle one season between Barry Kehoe and Tommy Lynch. 2-2 draw. If that result is true, I need to seriously get a life.

We're going WAY off topic here, but Drogs have been United since they joined the league, I think. For my own entertainment as much as anything else here's all the Uniteds:
Dublin United 1921-23
Shelbourne United 1922-24
Reds United 1935-36
Cork United version 1 1939-48 (ex Fordsons/Cork/Cork City (first version), replaced by Cork Ath etc)
Evergreen United 1951-59 (then Cork Celtic)
Drogheda United 1963 to date
Cork United version 2 1979-82 (ex Albert Rovers/Cork Alberts, replaced Cork Celtic etc)
Limerick United 1979-83 (ex Limerick, then City/FC/37 etc)
Galway United 1982 to date (ex Galway Rovers)
Waterford United 1983-2016 (ex Waterford)
Monaghan United 1985-2012
Newcastle United 1985-6 (then renamed Newcastlewest)

All of which reminds me of my favourite Irish pub conversation .... someone says 'I support United' I say 'Galway or Waterford?'

[The Donie Forde]

We're going WAY off topic here, but Drogs have been United since they joined the league, I think. For my own entertainment as much as anything else here's all the Uniteds:
Dublin United 1921-23
Shelbourne United 1922-24
Reds United 1935-36
Cork United version 1 1939-48 (ex Fordsons/Cork/Cork City (first version), replaced by Cork Ath etc)
Drogheda United 1963 to date
Cork United version 2 1979-82 (ex Albert Rovers/Cork Alberts, replaced Cork Celtic etc)
Limerick United 1979-83 (ex Limerick, then City/FC/37 etc)
Galway United 1982 to date (ex Galway Rovers)
Waterford United 1983-2016 (ex Waterford)
Monaghan United 1985-2012
Newcastle United 1985-6 (then renamed Newcastlewest)

All of which reminds me of my favourite Irish pub conversation .... someone says 'I support United' I say 'Galway or Waterford?'

Don't forget Evergreen United, later Cork Celtic.

[ciaraa]

We're going WAY off topic here, but Drogs have been United since they joined the league, I think.

It was Drogheda FC for the cup final against Limerick. Not too sure when the United bit came on board but it wasn't long after that.

[seand]

Don't forget Evergreen United, later Cork Celtic.

Ah come on, you can't expect me to remember ALL the Cork clubs ;-)

[oriel]

Drogs were definitely 'FC' from when they joined in the early 60's, and this was right up the late 70's I think.

[seand]

It was Drogheda FC for the cup final against Limerick. Not too sure when the United bit came on board but it wasn't long after that.

They were United before the 71 cup final v Limerick anyway, or contemporary programmes and newspapers were way ahead of the game! Limerick Leader online archive of papers from 1971 refers to Drogheda United with respect to 71 cup final. I thought they changed to United when joining the league or just before when applying to join. I could be wrong.

[EatYerGreens]

We're going WAY off topic here, but Drogs have been United since they joined the league, I think. For my own entertainment as much as anything else here's all the Uniteds:
Dublin United 1921-23
Shelbourne United 1922-24
Reds United 1935-36
Cork United version 1 1939-48 (ex Fordsons/Cork/Cork City (first version), replaced by Cork Ath etc)
Evergreen United 1951-59 (then Cork Celtic)
Drogheda United 1963 to date
Cork United version 2 1979-82 (ex Albert Rovers/Cork Alberts, replaced Cork Celtic etc)
Limerick United 1979-83 (ex Limerick, then City/FC/37 etc)
Galway United 1982 to date (ex Galway Rovers)
Waterford United 1983-2016 (ex Waterford)
Monaghan United 1985-2012
Newcastle United 1985-6 (then renamed Newcastlewest)

All of which reminds me of my favourite Irish pub conversation .... someone says 'I support United' I say 'Galway or Waterford?'

Don't forget the latest addition either = Mervue United !

[The Donie Forde]

Ah come on, you can't expect me to remember ALL the Cork clubs ;-)

Sure we've only had 2 Cork Uniteds and 1 Evergreen United - how hard can that be? :-)

[Partizan]

Don't forget the latest addition either = Mervue United !

Ah! Mervue, how could we not forget thee.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZE3iXphD5E

[Partizan]

It was Drogheda FC for the cup final against Limerick. Not too sure when the United bit came on board but it wasn't long after that.

Isn't the current DUFC (1975) an amalgamation of two clubs, Drogheda FC (1962) and a non league Drogheda United (1919)?

[Straightstory]

Very DEFINITELY, Drogheda became Drogheda United in 1975.

[holidaysong]

Any Lilywhites remember that we were down as 'Dundalk United' on an away game match programme either last year or the one before?

That counts, right?

[Yossarian]

Any Lilywhites remember that we were down as 'Dundalk United' on an away game match programme either last year or the one before?

I recall "Dundalk United" being announced as Pats opponents over the tannoy once or twice in Inchicore.

[stann]

Isn't the current DUFC (1975) an amalgamation of two clubs, Drogheda FC (1962) and a non league Drogheda United (1919)?
Very DEFINITELY, Drogheda became Drogheda United in 1975.
Correct, Drogheda FC formed in 1962, and joined the League for the 1963/64 season (along with a returning Sligo Rovers as the league expanded to 12 teams again having reduced to 10 the previous season. Good job messing like that is a thing of the past...)
They amalgamated with the older, non-league, Drogheda United ahead of the 1975/76 season.

Just looking back through some random old newspaper reports, it was definitely Drogheda FC that beat us in October 1970 for the first time in four years, and again in January 1973 it was Drogheda FC we beat on the way to that last title.
Any mention of Drogheda United pre-1975, in newspapers or programmes, most likely is just confusion between the two names, or (in the papers) actually refers to the non-league outfit. They were active in the AUL which would have been covered quite a bit in papers like the Herald, at least.

[Partizan]

Correct, Drogheda FC formed in 1962, and joined the League for the 1963/64 season (along with a returning Sligo Rovers as the league expanded to 12 teams again having reduced to 10 the previous season. Good job messing like that is a thing of the past...)
They amalgamated with the older, non-league, Drogheda United ahead of the 1975/76 season.

Just looking back through some random old newspaper reports, it was definitely Drogheda FC that beat us in October 1970 for the first time in four years, and again in January 1973 it was Drogheda FC we beat on the way to that last title.
Any mention of Drogheda United pre-1975, in newspapers or programmes, most likely is just confusion between the two names, or (in the papers) actually refers to the non-league outfit. They were active in the AUL which would have been covered quite a bit in papers like the Herald, at least.

So the current DUFC came about in 1975, not 1919 as incorrectly stated?

UC Sampdoria, who ply their trade in Serie A is another example. They are an amalgamation of two clubs, Ginnastica Sampierdarenese (1891) and Andrea Doria (1895). They merged in 1946 to give us the club that we have today. Therefore UC Sampdoria is just 71 years young, not 126 or 122. So DUFC (1975) are only 42 years in existence, not 98 years that is often erroneously given.

Btw, are there any other cases of this in the League at present, or is DUFC (1975), a unique case?

[atfconline]

Bray are an amalgamation as well, aren't they?

[seand]

So the current DUFC came about in 1975, not 1919 as incorrectly stated?

UC Sampdoria, who ply their trade in Serie A is another example. They are an amalgamation of two clubs, Ginnastica Sampierdarenese (1891) and Andrea Doria (1895). They merged in 1946 to give us the club that we have today. Therefore UC Sampdoria is just 71 years young, not 126 or 122. So DUFC (1975) are only 42 years in existence, not 98 years that is often erroneously given.

Btw, are there any other cases of this in the League at present, or is DUFC (1975), a unique case?

Interesting that.... I'd suggest the Drogheda FC formed in 1962 was the senior partner in the merger in 1975, but Drogheda United FC does indeed go back to 1919, so I wouldn't quibble their claim to go back to 1919. And it looks like there was some confusion in the papers prior to 1975, with Drogheda FC being confused with Drogheda United.

It was in 2015 I think that UCD re-christened us Dundalk United. I think we played at the Bowl the week after Drogheda and somebody was in a bit of hurry when updating the programme before printing! Not that unusual to see the wrong squad/crest/away team name in programmes in fairness.

[Martinho II]

Bray are an amalgamation as well, aren't they?

I dont think so. Bray have had so many clubs over the years. There was the original Bray Wanderers in the 50s that played with us in the LSL till they disbanded. then there was Bray Unknowns. Thats my gist on it ATFC. The Bray lads would be able to give you a more accurate answer on it!

[El-Pietro]

That's interesting. Similar to the situation with Germany, and East/West Germany. Germany claim 4 World Cups, but 3 of those were won by West Germany. Do Germany just claim history from West Germany, or both teams in modern history.

From a certain point of view you could argue that the histories of both clubs both attribute to the modern day side, so even if the current name was adopted in 1975, the club is much older.

Waterford didn't form in 2017, they were founded in either 1930 or 82 depending on who you talk to, changing their name didn't create a new club. I don't think its clear cut either way with Drogheda.

[seand]

That's interesting. Similar to the situation with Germany, and East/West Germany. Germany claim 4 World Cups, but 3 of those were won by West Germany. Do Germany just claim history from West Germany, or both teams in modern history.

From a certain point of view you could argue that the histories of both clubs both attribute to the modern day side, so even if the current name was adopted in 1975, the club is much older.

Waterford didn't form in 2017, they were founded in either 1930 or 82 depending on who you talk to, changing their name didn't create a new club. I don't think its clear cut either way with Drogheda.

Waterford went bust and were reformed in 1945 too! They were Waterford FC (1945) Ltd for a while.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54078441@N03/15821128256/in/album-72157629315881185/

But then most clubs have reformed at some stage over the years.

[pineapple stu]

That's interesting. Similar to the situation with Germany, and East/West Germany. Germany claim 4 World Cups, but 3 of those were won by West Germany. Do Germany just claim history from West Germany, or both teams in modern history.
I think the view is East Germany merged into West Germany, and so West Germany just changed name.

Like how Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, etc, all broke away from the USSR, leaving Russia on its own to claim the USSR's record. And ditto with Serbia in Yugoslavia.

[stann]

So the current DUFC came about in 1975, not 1919 as incorrectly stated?
Not for me to say whether it's incorrect or not.
I'd think of it in terms of the length of a river. Seems reasonable you'd follow the river itself back to source to measure that. But what if it had a tributary that was longer again, could that not be considered the real distance? The one thing you wouldn't do is measure back just to where they merged, that way madness lies.
Don't know how Drogs fans feel about it, but I'd go with either 1962 (the source) or 1919 (the longer tributary), but not 1975. :cool:

[stann]

Waterford didn't form in 2017, they were founded in either 1930 or 82 depending on who you talk to, changing their name didn't create a new club. I don't think its clear cut either way with Drogheda.
I think there's no valid reason not to push the formation year back to 1927, as it goes. Waterford Celtic were formed in that year, and played three seasons in the Munster Senior League before applying, and being accepted, to the Free State League under the same name. They only changed it to Waterford AFC just before the 1930/31 season kicked off, and were still referred to as Celtic in many newspaper reports for months afterwards.

The 1940s hiatus is interesting. Unlike the earlier gap from 1932-34, the club had dropped out of senior football altogether for four seasons, but when they returned to the League of Ireland it was with some of the same players, staff and directors, and it was not seen in the national press as anything other than a return of the old club.
A report from June 1945 in the local paper did talk of a "meeting of shareholders of the newly-formed Waterford Association Football Club," which presumably is where Waterford AFC (1945) comes about, but the very next paragraph begins: "The sub-committee submitted a report of their work in connection with the club's re-admission to the league," and there is further mention of a successful "request for re-admission to the League of Ireland."
So it seems, despite a new legal (or business) entity being formed, that in the view of the national press (local press a little more ambiguously), and more importantly the League itself, it was a continuation of the old club.

A general meeting in September 1982 saw a vote to disband the board of Waterford FC (1945) and form a new group under Waterford United FC (1982), with the club rebranded and re-badged as a result. Some indeed see this as a new entity, but certainly on the playing front the change-over here was seamless from one season to the next, way more so than in 1945 (six of the team that played the last league game of 1981/82 featured in the first one of 1982/83, for example).

[sbgawa]

I think there's no valid reason not to push the formation year back to 1927, as it goes. Waterford Celtic were formed in that year, and played three seasons in the Munster Senior League before applying, and being accepted, to the Free State League under the same name. They only changed it to Waterford AFC just before the 1930/31 season kicked off, and were still referred to as Celtic in many newspaper reports for months afterwards.

The 1940s hiatus is interesting. Unlike the earlier gap from 1932-34, the club had dropped out of senior football altogether for four seasons, but when they returned to the League of Ireland it was with some of the same players, staff and directors, and it was not seen in the national press as anything other than a return of the old club.
A report from June 1945 in the local paper did talk of a "meeting of shareholders of the newly-formed Waterford Association Football Club," which presumably is where Waterford AFC (1945) comes about, but the very next paragraph begins: "The sub-committee submitted a report of their work in connection with the club's re-admission to the league," and there is further mention of a successful "request for re-admission to the League of Ireland."
So it seems, despite a new legal (or business) entity being formed, that in the view of the national press (local press a little more ambiguously), and more importantly the League itself, it was a continuation of the old club.

A general meeting in September 1982 saw a vote to disband the board of Waterford FC (1945) and form a new group under Waterford United FC (1982), with the club rebranded and re-badged as a result. Some indeed see this as a new entity, but certainly on the playing front the change-over here was seamless from one season to the next, way more so than in 1945 (six of the team that played the last league game of 1981/82 featured in the first one of 1982/83, for example).

That's a great bit of research.

[gspain01]

My understanding has been that Waterford dropped out in 1941 in a row over player bonuses. The club reached the FAI Cup Final losing to Cork United after a replay and finished level on points with United thus ensuring a playoff for the title that never took place due to the row.

Legend has it Limerick bought the blue Waterford jerseys and switched colours to blue/white from red and white stripes from the 1942/43 season. I've never been able to verify it but heard talk of it as a very young boy on the popularside in the early 1970's when many of those claiming it would have been going in the early 1940's. We certainly started playing in blue & white from 1942/43 and have almost ever since (apart from the seasons in Pat Grace's horse racing colours).

Waterford Celtic actually were playing years afterwards. They lost the 1938 Munster Junior Cup Final to Glasheen - http://www.munsterfa.com/previouswinners.html

I tend to view these changes as the same club. Rules were lax in previous years and it was easy enough to liquidate a club and a new club take their place in the league.

[seand]

I tend to view these changes as the same club. Rules were lax in previous years and it was easy enough to liquidate a club and a new club take their place in the league.

Spoken like a true Limerick FC/United/City/37/FC fan ;-)

[stann]

There were a couple of separate things going on in 1941, I think.
Working from memory here, but IIRC the reason they handed the league to Cork uncontested was that the players wanted a draw bonus in place as well as the win bonus for that test match to decide the league, as it was beyond the period of their paid contracts. The directors refused in high dudgeon, and seven players struck, so the club couldn't field a team, and after a period of deliberation the title was awarded to Cork United.
Meantime, and maybe not unconnected, the club was losing money hand over fist all season long, and they pulled out of the following year's competition simply because the costs were going to be too high, especially transport (presumably due to petrol rationing), and the directors weren't prepared to bear the burden any further.
There was definitely an element of sulk on both sides though, both in the club pulling out and the way the rogue players were treated by the League afterwards.

The first year Waterford Celtic joined the League of Ireland, they also continued with a team in the local Waterford City League as well. I have a few sketchy details of games against New Ross and Kilkenny for example, and presumably this was their reserves or a B side of some kind. When Waterford FC pulled out of the League after two seasons, they played one season in the MSL, then pulled out of that too to go back to junior league for a season. I'd guess they kind of took over Celtic's place at that point, or at least the two teams combined, but on re-entering the League the following year Celtic were again free to plough their own furrow at the lower level for several seasons after that.

I heard the shirt story before alright, must look into that bit more if possible, I love stories like that. They mightn't have had the hashtags back then but it's always been the BestLeagueInTheWorld.

[Charlie Darwin]

Waterford went bust and were reformed in 1945 too! They were Waterford FC (1945) Ltd for a while.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54078441@N03/15821128256/in/album-72157629315881185/
Every club in the league has gone bust and reformed bar Cabinteely. Wexford had the honour up until this year.

[nigel-harps1954]

Every club in the league has gone bust and reformed bar Cabinteely. Wexford had the honour up until this year.

Hold on there a minute...

[outspoken]

We never went bust

[redarmyfaction]

Or us.

[pineapple stu]

Standard UCD mention

[Charlie Darwin]

Lads, every club has gone bust. It used to be a lot easier to ditch a holding company and set up a new one than it is now, but every club has done. Some several times.

edit: UCD an exception for obvious reasons

[outspoken]

UCD the model club.

[sadloserkid]

Bray are an amalgamation as well, aren't they?

It's no excuse but I am tired this morning... when I first read this sentence I read amalgamation as abomination. I wasn't even particularly surprised... :o

[seand]

One for the club history discussion thread..... Shamrock Rovers are calling their new corporate entertainment area the '1899 Suite'- which is odd for a club formed in 1901. The date has been debated time and again, but I thought 1901 had been pretty well nailed down, especially by club historian Robert Goggins. The only argument in favour of 1899 was that 1899 used to be painted on the gates at Milltown. I wonder was there some new information that came to light to suggest 1899 is right, or was it a conscious attempt to add an extra layer of gravitas by pushing the club back into the 19th century.

[Northsider]

One for the club history discussion thread..... Shamrock Rovers are calling their new corporate entertainment area the '1899 Suite'- which is odd for a club formed in 1901. The date has been debated time and again, but I thought 1901 had been pretty well nailed down, especially by club historian Robert Goggins. The only argument in favour of 1899 was that 1899 used to be painted on the gates at Milltown. I wonder was there some new information that came to light to suggest 1899 is right, or was it a conscious attempt to add an extra layer of gravitas by pushing the club back into the 19th century.

1914 would be a better guess.

Like most football clubs, Shamrock Rovers had very humble beginnings. The club was formed in 1899 in the city of Dublin in an area where the districts of Ringsend and Irishtown meet. The very first meeting took place at number four Irishtown Road but it wasn't until the second meeting was held around the corner in Shamrock Avenue that the name Shamrock Rovers was decided upon.
The new club immediately registered with the Leinster Football Association but spent the first two years playing friendly games. It didn't take long though for the first piece of silverware to arrive as Rovers were crowned County Dublin League winners in 1904/05. That same season the club also captured the Leinster Junior Cup when they beat Dundalk 2-1 in the final at Dalymount Park.
Shamrock Rovers then took a further step up when, in 1905, they joined the Leinster Junior League and went on to win the LJL league title as well as retain the Leinster Junior Cup. Within the few years since formation the club had grown considerably. The committee believed that the time was right to take a further step forward and they entered the team into the Leinster Senior League for the 1906/07 season. However, as the season began it became obvious that Rovers were suffering problems in trying to get players out and when they failed to secure a private ground, which they were required to do as members of the LSL, they were forced to pull out of football.
The club was revived in 1914 and entered the Leinster Junior League winning the league title at the first go.

[EatYerGreens]

My understanding has been that Waterford dropped out in 1941 in a row over player bonuses. The club reached the FAI Cup Final losing to Cork United after a replay and finished level on points with United thus ensuring a playoff for the title that never took place due to the row.

Legend has it Limerick bought the blue Waterford jerseys and switched colours to blue/white from red and white stripes from the 1942/43 season. I've never been able to verify it but heard talk of it as a very young boy on the popularside in the early 1970's when many of those claiming it would have been going in the early 1940's. We certainly started playing in blue & white from 1942/43 and have almost ever since (apart from the seasons in Pat Grace's horse racing colours).

Waterford Celtic actually were playing years afterwards. They lost the 1938 Munster Junior Cup Final to Glasheen - http://www.munsterfa.com/previouswinners.html

I tend to view these changes as the same club. Rules were lax in previous years and it was easy enough to liquidate a club and a new club take their place in the league.

I have a strange recollection that Limerick United played in red and white stripes ? Maybe as their away kit ?

[EatYerGreens]

I think there's no valid reason not to push the formation year back to 1927, as it goes. Waterford Celtic were formed in that year, and played three seasons in the Munster Senior League before applying, and being accepted, to the Free State League under the same name. They only changed it to Waterford AFC just before the 1930/31 season kicked off, and were still referred to as Celtic in many newspaper reports for months afterwards.

The 1940s hiatus is interesting. Unlike the earlier gap from 1932-34, the club had dropped out of senior football altogether for four seasons, but when they returned to the League of Ireland it was with some of the same players, staff and directors, and it was not seen in the national press as anything other than a return of the old club.
A report from June 1945 in the local paper did talk of a "meeting of shareholders of the newly-formed Waterford Association Football Club," which presumably is where Waterford AFC (1945) comes about, but the very next paragraph begins: "The sub-committee submitted a report of their work in connection with the club's re-admission to the league," and there is further mention of a successful "request for re-admission to the League of Ireland."
So it seems, despite a new legal (or business) entity being formed, that in the view of the national press (local press a little more ambiguously), and more importantly the League itself, it was a continuation of the old club.

A general meeting in September 1982 saw a vote to disband the board of Waterford FC (1945) and form a new group under Waterford United FC (1982), with the club rebranded and re-badged as a result. Some indeed see this as a new entity, but certainly on the playing front the change-over here was seamless from one season to the next, way more so than in 1945 (six of the team that played the last league game of 1981/82 featured in the first one of 1982/83, for example).

Some research I did a while back came up with a different formation story for the original Waterford FC.

It suggested that the club had its roots in a team called “YoungFavourites” which was formed in 1930 and played in local football competitions in Waterford. They used to draw good crowds to a pitch/venue called Ballyneesagh, and the level of support encouraged the idea that they shouldseek to have a Waterford team elected to the LOI.

Does any of that sound right or familiar to you Stann ?

[stann]

Some research I did a while back came up with a different formation story for the original Waterford FC.

It suggested that the club had its roots in a team called “YoungFavourites” which was formed in 1930 and played in local football competitions in Waterford. They used to draw good crowds to a pitch/venue called Ballyneesagh, and the level of support encouraged the idea that they shouldseek to have a Waterford team elected to the LOI.

Does any of that sound right or familiar to you Stann ?

Not right, I don't think, EatYerGreens, though some of the info is significant.

Young Favourites were a junior side that played alongside Celtic in the early Waterford league. As an example, as I type I'm looking at a list of the Free State Junior Cup results involving Waterford area sides from the last Sunday in 1929, which reads:
Waterford City 1 - 5 O'Connell Celtic
Waterford Celtic 3 - 0 Hibernians
Shamrock Rovers 3 - 0 Parnell Celtic
Tramore Celtic 1`- 2 St Joseph's
Young Favourites 5 - 5 Tramore Rookies

The Waterford Celtic here are their junior XI, as the Munster Senior League side the same weekend were being pulled out of the hat in the Munster Senior Cup draw, and were gearing up for an FAI Senior Cup appearance against the mighty Brideville the following Sunday (they only lost 1-0, by the way, regarded as quite an eyebrow-raising result!)

It's quite possible that Young Favourites played out of Ballinaneesagh though, which is where Waterford FC played their first five league games while they were waiting for Kilcohan Park to be brought up to snuff, so that connection is there. That ground no longer exists, BTW, there's a big cemetery there now. Both the junior and MSL Waterford Celtic sides played their home games in Ozier Park, which is still a fine ground.

There's no question that Waterford AFC were a continuation of Waterford Celtic however. For example, an article in the Irish Independent of Friday, July 4th 1930 is headlined "12 CLUBS FOR FREE STATE LEAGUE" and sub-headed "Waterford Celtic and Dolphin elected." They didn't change the name to Waterford AFC until the season was about to kick-off. And, as said, the team were continuously referred to as Celtic in the press for months after the change.

[EatYerGreens]

Not right, I don't think, EatYerGreens, though some of the info is significant.

Young Favourites were a junior side that played alongside Celtic in the early Waterford league. As an example, as I type I'm looking at a list of the Free State Junior Cup results involving Waterford area sides from the last Sunday in 1929, which reads:
Waterford City 1 - 5 O'Connell Celtic
Waterford Celtic 3 - 0 Hibernians
Shamrock Rovers 3 - 0 Parnell Celtic
Tramore Celtic 1`- 2 St Joseph's
Young Favourites 5 - 5 Tramore Rookies

The Waterford Celtic here are their junior XI, as the Munster Senior League side the same weekend were being pulled out of the hat in the Munster Senior Cup draw, and were gearing up for an FAI Senior Cup appearance against the mighty Brideville the following Sunday (they only lost 1-0, by the way, regarded as quite an eyebrow-raising result!)

It's quite possible that Young Favourites played out of Ballinaneesagh though, which is where Waterford FC played their first five league games while they were waiting for Kilcohan Park to be brought up to snuff, so that connection is there. That ground no longer exists, BTW, there's a big cemetery there now. Both the junior and MSL Waterford Celtic sides played their home games in Ozier Park, which is still a fine ground.

There's no question that Waterford AFC were a continuation of Waterford Celtic however. For example, an article in the Irish Independent of Friday, July 4th 1930 is headlined "12 CLUBS FOR FREE STATE LEAGUE" and sub-headed "Waterford Celtic and Dolphin elected." They didn't change the name to Waterford AFC until the season was about to kick-off. And, as said, the team were continuously referred to as Celtic in the press for months after the change.

Excellent stuff Stann.

So is the old Ballinaneesagh ground now St Otteran's Cemetery on the west of the town ? And did Waterford Celtic play at Kilcohan Park themselves as well.

[Partizan]

AFAIK, Waterford also played at Ballinakil which is Waterpark RFC's ground.

[Charlie Darwin]

One for the club history discussion thread..... Shamrock Rovers are calling their new corporate entertainment area the '1899 Suite'- which is odd for a club formed in 1901. The date has been debated time and again, but I thought 1901 had been pretty well nailed down, especially by club historian Robert Goggins. The only argument in favour of 1899 was that 1899 used to be painted on the gates at Milltown. I wonder was there some new information that came to light to suggest 1899 is right, or was it a conscious attempt to add an extra layer of gravitas by pushing the club back into the 19th century.
The Heritage Trust recently discovered a newspaper report from 1899 on a match involving Shamrock Rovers from Ringsend. It was in the programme at some point last season but not sure if it was put online.