2019 UEFA Under-21 Championships

[Olé Olé]

9 of the 18 players are born in Ireland and of the other 9, one is Mark Kinsella's son so not as bad as other squads. Also, of those 9 Irish players the Hales, Kane and McGrath are at LOI sides and Curtis, Manning and Delaney had very formative times in their career in the LOI. Only Shaughnessy and Mulraney are Irish-born players who can't refer to the LOI are being key to their development.

[samhaydenjr]

Is there some sort of rule preventing us from bringing in new players at this point of the competition or promoting players from the U-19s? If not, why don't we see the likes of Jimmy Dunne, Conor Masterson or Ryan Nolan at the back? Or Caoimhin Kelleher in goal? Or Michael Obafemi or Aaron Connolly up front? I'm particularly worried that there's no mention of Nolan, a teenager who is on the fringe of the Inter Milan squad and qualifies for Spain through residency

[Olé Olé]

Is there some sort of rule preventing us from bringing in new players at this point of the competition or promoting players from the U-19s? If not, why don't we see the likes of Jimmy Dunne, Conor Masterson or Ryan Nolan at the back? Or Caoimhin Kelleher in goal? Or Michael Obafemi or Aaron Connolly up front? I'm particularly worried that there's no mention of Nolan, a teenager who is on the fringe of the Inter Milan squad and qualifies for Spain through residency

It's a tricky one. Should we replace Danny Kane with Dunne as Kane had to be shipped out on loan as he couldn't get a game in LOI? Quigley is sliding down the divisions- why not bring in Connolly or Obafemi for him? Are they persisting with the players that have played all along and the older, stronger players instead of putting the future of Irish football first? Will Quigley or Kane ever play for the senior side?

[TrapAPony]

Will Quigley or Kane ever play for the senior side?

I always die a little inside every time I see conference players in Irish underage squads. There are no excuses for it. Connor Ronan, Jimmy Dunne, Jake Doyle-Hayes should all be in that squad. Jack Byrne too despite his attitude is still good enough to be there. I would also agree that I do not understand why Nolan hasn't been called up to any Irish underage team despite being highly rated at Inter Milan.

[Charlie Darwin]

I always die a little inside every time I see conference players in Irish underage squads. There are no excuses for it. Connor Ronan, Jimmy Dunne, Jake Doyle-Hayes should all be in that squad. Jack Byrne too despite his attitude is still good enough to be there. I would also agree that I do not understand why Nolan hasn't been called up to any Irish underage team despite being highly rated at Inter Milan.
You think a guy in League One, a guy who's played a couple of SPL games in his career and an U23s league player should be ahead of a guy who's a regular in the team and has taken a chance by going out to play football?

[samhaydenjr]

You think a guy in League One, a guy who's played a couple of SPL games in his career and an U23s league player should be ahead of a guy who's a regular in the team and has taken a chance by going out to play football?

Or to put it another way: do we think that a player who played 21 National League and 20 League Two games last season an went straight into the first team at the SPL leaders this season after featuring in pre-season for his EPL parent club should be ahead of a player with 6 National League games under his belt? Well... yes. I mean good luck to Danny Kane, I hope he gets regular football and gets his career moving upwards. But clearly Dunne is further along in his career. Even if Kane cements his place for half a season or so at Fylde, he'll then likely have to come back to Cork City, impress next season and then look for a transfer to an upper-tier English club. By then, Dunne could well have a full SPL season under his belt and may even be an EPL regular. And yes, you could make the argument that Kane justifies his place as the regular player in the U21 squad, but that just leads to the question: why wasn't Dunne in the squad all along?

And regarding Connor Ronan... he has been mentioned as a potential top talent and has made 16 League One appearances and 7 Championship Appearances along with some cup appearances, including impressing in a League Cup game against the Mighty Manchester City. Although I do see reasonable arguments for all the other midfielders so that isn't as blatant of an omission. Incidentally he's gone on loan to Walsall so it will give us another opportunity to see how he's developing: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45375788

[Charlie Darwin]

You're still talking about discarding players who have performed well enough as starters to get us to this point in favour of guys who haven't performed at a higher level. And you're also not even comparing the right players as Kane is playing full-back for Ireland and the players you mention are a centre-half and two midfielders, none of whom would be challenging for his place.

If you want to make a case for Dunne ahead of Sweeney or Ronan ahead of McGrath, go ahead, but you're not doing that.

[samhaydenjr]

You're still talking about discarding players who have performed well enough as starters to get us to this point in favour of guys who haven't performed at a higher level. And you're also not even comparing the right players as Kane is playing full-back for Ireland and the players you mention are a centre-half and two midfielders, none of whom would be challenging for his place.

If you want to make a case for Dunne ahead of Sweeney or Ronan ahead of McGrath, go ahead, but you're not doing that.

Okay, I'll admit that I didn't know that, which means we're thin on the ground for right-backs at this age group. And sure, there is the case to be made for sticking with the players who started the qualifiers at a time that Dunne was just starting out at Barrow. So it might be a bit of 20/20 hindsight to say that his potential should have been spotted earlier in the campaign, although with the FAI scouting for Irish-eligible English-born players, they should also be keeping a close ear to the ground on the progress of Irish youngsters and their clubs' plans for them. Because right now, it looks like Dunne is going to be playing regularly at a higher level than the other centre-halves for the next few months and I can even see a path where he would be playing at a high enough level to merit consideration for the senior team within a year (good loan spell at Hearts leading to him breaking into the Burnley first team) - I can't see that for the other centre-backs, with the possible exception of Shaughnessy.

As regards Ronan, I did say that I agreed that there wasn't a clear argument for his inclusion over the others but I felt to dismiss his case on the basis of him being just a "League One player" was unfair. On a single-game basis he's probably tasted action at the highest level of this group, holding his own against the Manchester City midfield in the League Cup in front of 50,000. Of course Manning and Cullen both have more senior experience overall in the English Leagues, as does Mulraney in Scotland and the two LOI lads, and it would be hypocritical of me to have said elsewhere that LOI should be used as a pathway to gaining senior experience for more of our young players and go on to dismiss the LOI careers of McGrath and Hale to date. But I do feel we should keep a very close eye on Ronan's progress at Walsall as it will hopefully indicate whether he will prove to be the calibre of player we're hoping he will be - if so, we should be ready to call him up to the U21 squad

[tetsujin1979]

Starting XI named
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[Olé Olé]

8 of the starting 11 born in England. Granted, however, Curtis was reared in Donegal and Liam Kinsella is Mark's son.

[Closed Account]

Kosovo 1-0 Ireland
D'oh

[liamoo11]

kosovo 1 up twenty mins left

[elroy]

Presume this isn’t streamed anywhere?

[elroy]

1-1!!!

[samhaydenjr]

Unfortunately, by my reckoning that means we can no longer qualify for the play-offs as best second-place team: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_qualification#Ranking_of_second-placed_teams

[Closed Account]

Winning all 3 games would give us a good chance, (2 are v Germany so unlikely and we'd top the group then)

[samhaydenjr]

Winning all 3 games would give us a good chance, (2 are v Germany so unlikely and we'd top the group then)

Sorry, you're absolutely right, my calculations totally failed to take that into account - for some reason I thought the Israel game was the only one that counted towards second-placed points (we've had yet another heatwave in Toronto - my brain is fried). So a win against Israel and one win against Germany would give us a shot, although the odds would still be against us. But well done to the team for staying in the game this late (which is unprecedented for an Irish U21 side)... I know Noel King gets a lot of stick and even I questioned some of the omissions from this squad, but he's done something right to make this team competitive... and Curtis is really starting to make strides since his move to Pompey (proving Kenny Shiels wrong). So in this week of doom and gloom, perhaps there are green shoots coming up... In the light of this and the progress of the U17s and U19s over the last couple of years is it possible that maybe, just maybe, the FAI is starting to do the right things when it comes to player development?

[Charlie Darwin]

Sorry, you're absolutely right, my calculations totally failed to take that into account - for some reason I thought the Israel game was the only one that counted towards second-placed points (we've had yet another heatwave in Toronto - my brain is fried). So a win against Israel and one win against Germany would give us a shot, although the odds would still be against us. But well done to the team for staying in the game this late (which is unprecedented for an Irish U21 side)... I know Noel King gets a lot of stick and even I questioned some of the omissions from this squad, but he's done something right to make this team competitive... and Curtis is really starting to make strides since his move to Pompey (proving Kenny Shiels wrong). So in this week of doom and gloom, perhaps there are green shoots coming up... In the light of this and the progress of the U17s and U19s over the last couple of years is it possible that maybe, just maybe, the FAI is starting to do the right things when it comes to player development?
Well, as mentioned above, seven of the players were born and developed outside the FAI's jurisdiction so they can't take too much credit. Even on the bench, the Hale brothers came through the Northern Irish system before going to the UK (though they're both now getting developed in the League of Ireland).

[DeLorean]

Down 1-0 after 5 mins - https://www.uefa.com/under21/season=2019/matches/round=2000803/match=2022410/index.html?iv=true

[DeLorean]

0-2 after 22

[pineapple stu]

5-0 now. Always going to be hard to live with the Germans. Looks like Norway are slight favourites for second spot now though; the fifth goal put them ahead of us on goal difference; we've both still to face Germany.

[Cathalsmart]

Cant we ever surprise in a good way, when ever we surprise it only seems to be surprisingly bad.

[elroy]

5-0 now. Always going to be hard to live with the Germans. Looks like Norway are slight favourites for second spot now though; the fifth goal put them ahead of us on goal difference; we've both still to face Germany.

But I believe that second place isn’t going to get either Norway or ourselves a playoff..,,,

[Olé Olé]

Ireland U21s head into final two games with Euros spot still up for grabs http://the42.ie/4270035

Jimmy Dunne called up, thankfully. A new recruit in Jordan Shipley. He plays in League One and is already 21. English-born. Is a fairly typical Noel King call-up.

[Stuttgart88]

Is a fairly typical Noel King call-up.The whole squad is fairly typical of Noel King.

[tetsujin1979]

No Ryan Nolan. You'd have to wonder what he did to offend the entire organisation

[liamoo11]

No Ryan Nolan. You'd have to wonder what he did to offend the entire organisation

to be fair Conor masterson is not in either and he has been involved competitively at first team level at a bigger club

[tetsujin1979]

Think he's injured, didn't feature for Liverpool this week in the UEFA youth league

[Olé Olé]

Some quotes in the Examiner from King that I can't find online where he refers to Shipley as "a big lad who played 42 games for the first-team last season at Coventry." He refers also to how he's 6 foot and he's been chasing him for a while.

So he's chasing big lads who have League Two experience? Great stuff Noel.

[jbyrne]

So he's chasing big lads who have League Two experience? Great stuff Noel.

of all the things that could be said of noel king this is hardly the worst. an u21 lad eligible for us who has decent first team experience is hardly a bad thing

[Olé Olé]

of all the things that could be said of noel king this is hardly the worst. an u21 lad eligible for us who has decent first team experience is hardly a bad thing

And I didn't say it was the worst thing that could be said of him. I just find it very strange he's bringing in a 21 year-old into the squad so late in the campaign based on them being a big lad with experience in League Two. It's hardly a long-termistic approach to Irish football. But maybe Shipley will be a senior, who knows.

[Closed Account]

1050366657909153792

[IsMiseSean]

Israel just took the lead again. 2-1. Massive error from O'Hara.

[Closed Account]

3-1 . All over

[Cathalsmart]

King should be fired but of course he won’t, fkin spoofer.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd prefer to see Kenny Cunningham involved with a team like the Irish U21s than at St. Pats.

[Olé Olé]

1050366657909153792

3 starters that have come through the Irish system.

[tricky_colour]

Ronan Hale, who scored, describe the game as a must win, I would agree, unfortunately they lost. They can't qualify now.

[DeLorean]

I'd prefer to see Kenny Cunningham involved with a team like the Irish U21s than at St. Pats.

King could have the Pat's job.

[tetsujin1979]

Final qualifier this afternoon against Germany is on Eurosport

[Cathalsmart]

Final qualifier this afternoon against Germany is on Eurosport

Hopefully a comfortable German win which rubber stamps the fact that King needs to be fired.

[TrapAPony]

Hopefully a comfortable German win which rubber stamps the fact that King needs to be fired.

More chance of Noel King getting a 10 year contract extension than the FAI firing him unfortunately. I really don't know what King's purpose is as U21 manager.

[Cathalsmart]

Exactly his post match interview are just him waffling to try cover up the fact he hasn’t a clue.

[tetsujin1979]

Germany with all the play so far, but Ireland with a shot from distance from Cullen
lineup
1052212577692987393

[IsMiseSean]

I'm already dreading Kinger getting his hands on the current U19 squad.

[seanfhear]

I'm already dreading Kinger getting his hands on the current U19 squad.
Its his job to prepare them for Martin O’Neill telling them how poor they are at football .

Defeat with King in charge is a conduit for this .

Is it time for some Reporter to ask O’Neill if he thinks its good management to be telling his players how poor they are ?

[Cathalsmart]

Is Noel King out of contract btw? If so we will have some emusment weather it be somehow he gets an extension or he finally ****s off.

[Stuttgart88]

King isn’t on a contract. He’s a permanent employee with other responsibilities than the U21s.

[Cathalsmart]

Oh great, the plague shall continue so, gets the players set up for international football with Ireland at least. No wonder Grealish and potentially Rice jumped ship.

[Cathalsmart]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews//sport/soccer/noel-king-fans-expectations-are-too-great-like-england-876537.html

“I think Ireland have got some exceptional results at various levels, given the size of our country,”

That amongst other things you expect this excusasaurous-Rex to say and of course as is standard with the FAI they reward his failure with a new contract... this really is baffling.