2016 US presidential election

[osarusan]

So today is the day that two of the least likeable candidates I've ever seen finally get voted on.

I expect Clinton to win relatively comfortably in the end, but if Trump doesn't win this time, I worry about a politician who has the skill to whip up the same rhetoric but the smarts to avoid alienating so many voters next time.

[Real ale Madrid]

Isn't Trump too old to run again though?

I'm glad the whole thing is over to be honest.

I'm Real ale Madrid.
And I approve this message.

[SkStu]

There is a lot of what Trump says that would be appealing to the average American voter. The whole "drain the swamp" message is one i could see myself buying into. With Clinton you get essentially an elite who commits careless or criminal acts and gets away with it because she has people in the right places. She says the right things but life wouldnt change for the average American under Clinton. I do think that Trump would fight for things that are important to Americans, even though they are probably not the right things (the wall, border control) to a lot of the left. When most of the election cycle has centred around him allegedly groping women and using the word pussy and her allegedly sharing classified emails and her Foundation engaging in bribery, you know that you have not given yourself the best choice. American politics is a complete mess. But it wont change.

It is not over yet Real Ale Madrid!! The country is completely divided and i wouldnt be surprised to see some trouble in the aftermath, regardless of who wins. I also think that Clinton may end up being impeached or not even getting to office if she wins. This whole wikileaks stuff, if you have been digging in, is fascinating insight into democratic politics and to some extent disturbing and i think there is more coming.

Sanders was easily the best of the bunch.

The Clinton campaign is worried and is rallying in blue states to make sure they dont turn. I am predicting a slim win for Clinton but would not be surprised if Trump wins.

[Real ale Madrid]

It is not over yet Real Ale Madrid!! The country is completely divided and i wouldnt be surprised to see some trouble in the aftermath, regardless of who wins. I also think that Clinton may end up being impeached or not even getting to office if she wins. This whole wikileaks stuff, if you have been digging in, is fascinating insight into democratic politics and to some extent disturbing and i think there is more coming.


Trump is a lunatic - but I'm not sure if he will have the stomach for any fight after the election. He may throw out a few soundbites at the start - wait and see etc.

Electoral Collage speaking - its more or less a done deal I think - I don't think there will be any doubt after Florida, Ohio etc are called. Could be wrong I suppose.



Sanders was easily the best of the bunch.


Amen to that - wouldn't have gotten much done but would have been a breath of fresh air to see a man with his political philosophy in the White House.


I'm Real ale Madrid, and I approve this message.

[BonnieShels]

Wyoming and the Dakotas have gone to Drumpf.

Oh my God! SHOCK!

Florida is cutting it close but it looks like Brouward and Dade will just get Clinton over the top when they declare.

[BonnieShels]

This is great and real-time and scary when it started to swing for Trump.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president

[Charlie Darwin]

Remember when people were saying Sanders voters had to switch to Hillary because Democrats needed to unify to stop Trump? That's going well.

[BonnieShels]

The amount of people on my fb complaining about Johnson and Stein is ridiculous. The Dems fupped this up big time.

[osarusan]

Waking up to this!! Must be a lot of disenfranchised people in that country.

[Real ale Madrid]

I suppose if you make education prohibitively expensive it bites you in the a$$ eventually?

[Eminence Grise]

Went to bed around 1 thinking it was game over for Clinton. Time to start learning Russian, folks...

[OwlsFan]

They think it's comb over. It is now !!

[nigel-harps1954]

Bill Clinton would have made a crap First Lady anyway.

[dahamsta]

Went to bed around 1 thinking it was game over for Clinton. Time to start learning Russian, folks...

Elon Musk has it right, we need to get the feck off this lunatic asylum.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Got to laugh at the narrative that Trump secured the dumb, uneducated redneck vote among people who never went to college.

Didn't Hillary get Bruce Springsteen, Jay-Z, Beyonce and Bono to campaign for her?

They don't have a college degree between them.

If people get their voting cues from celebrities they need their heads examined anyway.

I also laugh at the simplification that the election would've been a landslide for Hillary if only millennial votes counted.

Someone once said: time passes, things change.

The same people voting for Trump now probably protested Vietnam in the sixties.

Trump got in because Hillary is corrupt and untrustworthy. She is establishment. The establishment have forgotten the little guy.

This is one for the little guy.

Sanity prevails.

[Real ale Madrid]

Sanity prevails.

If Racism, xenophobia, homophobia and sexism = sanity - then yes, sanity prevails.

[sbgawa]

The next American President is going to be chosen in a special edition of usa has got talent hosted by Simon Cowell

[BonnieShels]

Got to laugh at the narrative that Trump secured the dumb, uneducated redneck vote among people who never went to college.

Didn't Hillary get Bruce Springsteen, Jay-Z, Beyonce and Bono to campaign for her?

They don't have a college degree between them.

If people get their voting cues from celebrities they need their heads examined anyway.

I also laugh at the simplification that the election would've been a landslide for Hillary if only millennial votes counted.

Someone once said: time passes, things change.

The same people voting for Trump now probably protested Vietnam in the sixties.

Trump got in because Hillary is corrupt and untrustworthy. She is establishment. The establishment have forgotten the little guy.

This is one for the little guy.

Sanity prevails.


Since when does a billionaire property speculator strike you as someone out there for the "little guy"?

I'm assuming on that basis you would be a massive Bernie Sanders supporter in theory?

[nigel-harps1954]

It would sort of be like Denis O'Brien running for Taoiseach

[NeverFeltBetter]

Man, I wish the quotes of people I've hidden didn't show up in my feed.

[nigel-harps1954]

Man, I wish the quotes of people I've hidden didn't show up in my feed.

NeverFeltWorse

[backstothewall]

In retrospect the Clinton campaign reminds me of any post Good Friday Agreement SDLP campaign. Plenty of telling the electorate that the other guys are really awful people and reminders of all the great things they did in the last wee while but no vision for how they would make peoples lives better.

The electorate pay their votes in advance, not in arrears. They want to know what you will do for them, not what you did do for them. Incoherent and self-contradictory as he was, Trump put forward a plan of sorts that ordinary people could hope would improve their lot in the world. Hillary just didn't do that.

Joe Biden would have destroyed him.

[Wolfman]

Trump is an unreliable, hypocritical, flip-flopping Moron. His voters are even worse.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Man, I wish the quotes of people I've hidden didn't show up in my feed.

If BonnieShels opinions offend you so much, I have a suggestion - suck it up.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I understand neither Trump or Clinton should be President but I dislike the narrative that only one of them is unqualified.

Just because Hillary is a career politician doesn't mean she has a right to the office.

People complain about Trump.

This is a woman who achieved nothing of note in the Senate or as Secretary of State.

She had a private email server as SOS, then there is the cronyism, the conflicts of interest, bribes (or "speaking engagements"), the blatant warmongering..

She was under FBI investigation for chrissakes.

How anyone can go on about Trump's sexism when her husband paid off women who accused him of raping them..

Has anyone ever heard of Vince Foster?

[Wolfman]

As opposed to his poison about Mexicans, Muslims and Immigrants. A fascist in other words.

A man of wholly economic migrant stock, currently married to another economic migrant. The sooner this hypocritical tool leaves the better.

[thischarmingman]

This is a woman who achieved nothing of note in the Senate or as Secretary of State.



Foreign Policy:
Myanmar transition
Iran nuclear deal framework
Israel/Hamas peace agreement/ceasefire
Promoting LGBT rights in Africa as Secretary of State
HIV/AIDS testing and treatment through Clinton Foundation partnership with ANTIAIDS and the Victor Pinchuk Foundation in Ukraine
Launched Global Hunger and Food Security program
Saved the Turkish-Armenian accord
Co-sponsored Afghan Women and Children Relief Act of 2001
Co-sponsored Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act of 2001
Co-sponsored Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act of 2006
Co-sponsored Iraq Reconstruction Accountability Act of 2006
Co-sponsored Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act of 2006

Health:
Expanded the Family Medical Leave Act to include national guard/reservist
Co-sponsored Prevention First Act (family planning)
Changed State Department policy to include same sex couples in Diplomat benefits package
Lead group investigating 9/11-related illnesses in first responders (her Senate successor ended up passing her bill)
Co-founded Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families
Helped increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma for NIH
Helped investigate Gulf War Syndrome
Co-sponsored Traumatic Brain Injury Act of 2008
Co-sponsored ALS Registry Act
Co-sponsored Poison Center Support, Enhancement, and Awareness Act of 2008
Co-sponsored Veterans’ Mental Health and Other Care Improvements Act of 2008

Education:
Built Arkansas’ Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youngsters
Reformed Arkansas’ education system as chair of the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee
Co-sponsored Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Improvement Act of 2006

9/11:
Instrumental in bringing $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center site’s redevelopment
Established family compensation/small business loan programs
Co-sponsored Procedural Fairness for September 11 Victims Act of 2007

Children/Women:
Helped create Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice
Helped pass Adoption and Safe Families Act
Helped pass Foster Care Independence Act
Supported and promoted the passage and rollout of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), which expanded health insurance for children in lower-income families.
Co-sponsored Native American Breast and Cervical Cancer Treatment Technical Amendment Act of 2001
Co-sponsored Pediatric Research Equity Act of 2003
Co-sponsored PREEMIE Act
Co-sponsored Newborn Screening Saves Lives Act of 2007

This is considered by many to be one of the turning points of international women’s rights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXM4E23Efvk
In 1995, during an unprecedented address in Beijing to the United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women, Hillary recounted worldwide abuses and declared “It is time for us to say here in Beijing, and for the world to hear, that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women’s rights as separate from human rights.”

Career:
Staff attorney for the Children’s Defense Fund in Cambridge
Board member of the Yale Review of Law and Social Action
Legal work at the Yale Child Study Center for child abuse
Volunteer at New Haven Legal Assistance Association
Director of the Arkansas Legal Aid Clinic
Chair of the American Bar Association’s Commission on Women in the Profession

Political Career:
Researcher on migrant worker problems — Subcommittee on Migrant Labor
Jimmy Carter’s Indiana director of field operations
Chaired Arkansas’ Rural Health Advisory Committee, working to expand medical facilities for the poor
Chair of the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee
Chair of Presidential Task Force on National Health Care Reform
First Lady of Arkansas
First Lady of the United States
United States Senator from New York
United States Secretary of State

Voting Rights
Wrote Count Every Vote Act of 2005
Co-sponsored re-introducing the Equal Rights Amendment

More legislation (that became law)
Co-sponsored Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009
Co-sponsored Methamphetamine Production Prevention Act of 2008
Co-sponsored PROTECT Our Children Act of 2008
Co-sponsored KIDS Act of 2008
Co-sponsored Broadband Data Improvement Act
Co-sponsored Appalachian Regional Development Act Amendments of 2008
Co-sponsored Healthy Start Reauthorization Act of 2007
Co-sponsored Hematological Cancer Research Investment and Education Act of 2002
Co-sponsored Persian Gulf War POW/MIA Accountability Act of 2002
Co-sponsored FHA Downpayment Simplification Act of 2002
Co-sponsored Strengthen AmeriCorps Program Act
Co-sponsored 21st Century Nanotechnology Research and Development Act

Legislation Vetoed
Co-sponsored Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007

SOURCE: https://medium.com/@hodgesmr/so-what-are-hillary-clintons-achievements-325a341ef0e7#.41iptaa5t

[BonnieShels]

But besides all that, what has she actually done?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

But besides all that, what has she actually done?

It's void of any context.

[SkStu]

Her naughty list is probably just as long to be honest. I'm no Trump fan but I won't stand for HRC being painted as a saint (nor is Trump a monster). They were both awful.

As I said in my first post it's no surprise to me that he beat her. He had a clear vision to challenge the elite and fight for the people on the things that matter to the ordinary American.

[backstothewall]

It's void of any context.

From now on you shall be called "TOWK that is called TOWK"

[BonnieShels]

Her naughty list is probably just as long to be honest. I'm no Trump fan but I won't stand for HRC being painted as a saint (nor is Trump a monster). They were both awful.

As I said in my first post it's no surprise to me that he beat her. He had a clear vision to challenge the elite and fight for the people on the things that matter to the ordinary American.

I don't think anyone here is waving the HRC flag really loudly, but to complete dismiss her as useless and having done nothing (As our buddy TOWK did) is ridiculous in the extreme.

She was a ****ehawk but what we have now is so so so so so so so much worse.

---

So TOWK, where do you stand on Bernie Sanders? Woudl he have been the sort of anti-establishment figure you crave?

[BonnieShels]

I understand neither Trump or Clinton should be President but I dislike the narrative that only one of them is unqualified.

Just because Hillary is a career politician doesn't mean she has a right to the office.

People complain about Trump.

This is a woman who achieved nothing of note in the Senate or as Secretary of State.

She had a private email server as SOS, then there is the cronyism, the conflicts of interest, bribes (or "speaking engagements"), the blatant warmongering..

She was under FBI investigation for chrissakes.

How anyone can go on about Trump's sexism when her husband paid off women who accused him of raping them..

Has anyone ever heard of Vince Foster?

Dubya (That's what us oldies who were around for the 2000 Omnishambles call George W Bush) did the same as well didn't he? BAD BAD MAN. HE'S A BAD MAN.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

So Donald Trump is racist because he thinks illegal immigrants should be deported?

If you don't respect your host country enough to respect its laws, and its immigration and naturalisation processes, then you don't belong there. You want to live in America? Get a college degree, move there legally, contribute, pay taxes etc, etc....

I think illegal immigrants should be deported whether they are Mexican or whether they are Irish.

A lot of people want to turn this into a one-sided race issue, yet nothing has been mentioned about the reports of black people intimidating white pollers at polling stations across America because that wouldn't fit the narrative. At least be consistent I say.

There has been a lot made of the fact that an older generation of working class white people favored Trump as if this in itself was racist. By the same token was it not racist when Barack Obama was voted into the White House largely on the basis of his skin color by ethnic minorities? No more or no less I'd say.

As for the "locker room talk". I don't think Hillary has the moral high ground on that one. Her husband was a serial philanderer at best and something else at worst.

Go back in history and you will find more Presidents enveloped in sexual scandals than those that weren't.

Again, JFK, serial philanderer and objectifier of women. Lyndon B. Johnson regularly exposed himself to female staffers; he even nicknamed his genitalia "Jumbo".

I find it difficult not to like this outcome TBH. The Democratic Primary Process was rigged in favor of Hillary Clinton at Bernie Sanders' expense. Virtually the entire TV and print media ignored journalistic integrity and impartiality, and openly supported Hillary's campaign.

For the last six months we have been bombarded with anti-Trump propaganda and blatantly biased headlines from supposedly reputable newspapers such as The New York Times and The Washington Times - yet the people have seen past the bull****.

Nothing sums up the disconnect between the establishment and the average Joe Soap better than draft dodging Bruce Springsteen pontificating to blue collar Americans about who they should vote for.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

An article from Donald Trump campaign intern, Angelo Gomez.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/11/latino-millennial-donald-trump-voted-establishment-president

29% of latinos voted for "racist" Donald Trump.

I hate it when one black/latino/white person speaks for all of their race.

It reminds me of a quote from South Park pertaining to Jesse Jackson: "You are not the emperor of black people".

It's 2016. People are capable of making autonomous decisions now and won't allow mainstream media to dictate who they "should" vote for.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well then.

[BonnieShels]

So Donald Trump is racist because he thinks illegal immigrants should be deported?

If you don't respect your host country enough to respect its laws, and its immigration and naturalisation processes, then you don't belong there. You want to live in America? Get a college degree, move there legally, contribute, pay taxes etc, etc....

I think illegal immigrants should be deported whether they are Mexican or whether they are Irish.

Cool story. But there is a racist element to this. He concentrated on hispanic and muslim immigrants. Yes he might have referred to all immigrants in general sometimes, but don't try to be revisionist in thinking that the Irish were in his gunsights. It was all about the damn Mexicans.

There are many reasons why people end up in the States illegally.

A lot of the time the complete ****show of an immigration system is to blame. Some things aren't as black and white as you would like to make them out to be. The world is grey.


A lot of people want to turn this into a one-sided race issue, yet nothing has been mentioned about the reports of black people intimidating white pollers at polling stations across America because that wouldn't fit the narrative. At least be consistent I say.

And if there were Native Americans intimidating white people it would be also newsworthy. But the reason that neither would be reported on as often is because it doesn't happen as often (if at all) and let's be honest, to take your white privilege and be all woe is me for these isolated incidents is frankly disgusting.

I also would love to stack these reports of black on white intimidation (ha ha, seriously you're kidding right?) against the conventional white on black intimidation.
I'm sure you have loads of links.


There has been a lot made of the fact that an older generation of working class white people favored Trump as if this in itself was racist. By the same token was it not racist when Barack Obama was voted into the White House largely on the basis of his skin color by ethnic minorities? No more or no less I'd say.

Are you trying to tell me that this older whiter generation of working class people who grew up with segregation in their lives aren't as racist as a younger more informed and liberal generation that came after them?

Are you saying that the candidate who was completely lacking in coherent policy positions other than "MURICA!!!!!!!!" got votes from people on a non-racist basis?
Perhaps some, but you are naive in the extreme to think that candidate that got Dukkke's support isn't teeming with racist older white supporters.




As for the "locker room talk". I don't think Hillary has the moral high ground on that one. Her husband was a serial philanderer at best and something else at worst.

I saw this argument crop up in a good few places and I can't see what the point is?

Trump's disgraceful and aggressive admittance of sexual assault are okay because of Hillary's husband, Bill, who wasn't running against him.

Do you realise how outrageously sexist that is? That Hillary, even though she wasn't caught on tape gloating about groping or kissing other people is Trump's equal because her husband had affairs. Get out of it.


Go back in history and you will find more Presidents enveloped in sexual scandals than those that weren't.

Again, JFK, serial philanderer and objectifier of women. Lyndon B. Johnson regularly exposed himself to female staffers; he even nicknamed his genitalia "Jumbo".

JFK and LBJ weren't running against Trump though.

You say that if I go back in time "will find more Presidents enveloped in sexual scandals than those that weren't." Is that so?

You named 3 there plus Trump. So let's say 4 out of 45... You owe me 19 more presidents...

But then again none of them were running against Trump.


I find it difficult not to like this outcome TBH. The Democratic Primary Process was rigged in favor of Hillary Clinton at Bernie Sanders' expense. Virtually the entire TV and print media ignored journalistic integrity and impartiality, and openly supported Hillary's campaign.

Correct. Absolutely disgraceful carry on from the DNC and Debbie WS. But as unpalatable as HRC is; Trump is better because of the DNC ******ology?


For the last six months we have been bombarded with anti-Trump propaganda and blatantly biased headlines from supposedly reputable newspapers such as The New York Times and The Washington Times - yet the people have seen past the bull****.


Criticism isn't always bias. It wasn't as if DJT said some absolutely disgraceful things over the last 18 months. You go on like he's some lamb. He wasn't and he isn't.


Nothing sums up the disconnect between the establishment and the average Joe Soap better than draft dodging Bruce Springsteen pontificating to blue collar Americans about who they should vote for.

I know, the draft dodging multi-billionaire Donald J Trump is the guy for that job. The man with the common touch.

---

I'll ask you again, would you have been more inclined to be on the side of Bernie Sanders (because you're so anti-establishment) if he won the DNC nomination?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Perhaps that's because Mexico borders America, because they make up 60% of illegal immigrants in America and because of the threat Mexican cartels pose with Mexico being a neighboring country. A lot of it is black and white though, isn't it? If we use Irish people as a microcosm, most of them know fully well what they are doing when they overstay a visa. It's worth mentioning that Ted Cruz, he of latino and Irish heritage, shared Trump's views on how to treat "undocumented" people.
People who are in their late 60's and early 70's now would have been part of the counterculture in the late 60's and early 70's. Would you not say this was a time of enlightenment? Do you not think part of the reason they voted for Trump is because the previous government regime hasn't delivered the change it promised? Because these people are on the breadline, have lost their livelihoods and this in a country where a lengthy hospital stay can land you in bankruptcy? P.S. black people can be racist too. Race baiters like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton voted for Hillary.
Hillary was recorded on tape chortling about getting a child rapist off with a plea bargain when she was a lawyer back in 1975. She also has a history of aggressively intimidating and belittling the myriad women who have accused her husband of sexual assault. And the only reason she has the cachet to run for President is because of her connections to Bill Clinton, so it's fair game to bring up her failings in advocating for women when one brings up absurd comments from Donald Trump - who hasn't paid off accusers like Hillary's husband.
http://www.ranker.com/list/perverted-old-presidents/jacob-shelton
Yes I would have been more inclined to support Sanders, but the Dems chose to go with someone who has Wikileaks, Benghazi, the FBI investigation etc, etc hanging over her. Someone whose foreign policies are so underwhelming. Someone who would rather get celebrities like Jay-Z to campaign for her and pander to people rather than campaign in battle states like her rival.


It's telling that when people who are pro-Hillary are debating the result of the election, they spend more time lambasting Trump for the same stuff we've been hearing for over six months than they do defending Clinton - like the lady on Newsnight tonight.

Not once did she mention why Clinton actually merited the Presidency. Not one iota about any kind of policy.

Therein lies the rub.

P.S. It's ironic to hear people calling Trump a bully when the print and TV media have spent the last two years mocking his skintone, his hair and his general physical appearance.

Yet he's the bully. *Rolls eyes*

[Wolfman]

He had a clear vision to challenge the elite and fight for the people on the things that matter to the ordinary American.


LOL.
x a million.

[SkStu]

You can lol all you like but it doesn't make it untrue. I'll elaborate.

If I put myself in the shoes of the average American (remember the average houselhold salary of the bottom 90% of the country is $33k) and ask myself what is important to them, the most simplified answer is that they see a government that is not working for them.

Life has not improved for the bottom 90% to the extent it has for the remainder and that is a broken system. Union membership has gone from >30% of the population to <12% today in the space of 20 years so there is no ability for the ordinary working class to share in the wealth that capitalism has created for the upper class and elite. An outcome that has been overseen by a predominantly democrat rule during that period.

The American people, rightly or wrongly, are also afraid. Afraid of the threat of radical Islam and border control is a big issue for them for those reasons. When they hear Hillary tell Wall Street in her paid speeches that she believes in completely open borders and essentially free movement of trade and people they see themselves being further exposed and unprotected by the system that is supposed to do that for its people.

You also have a situation where healthcare premiums for Obamacare are going to increase from anywhere between 40% to 140% from state to State (which gets picked up by the taxpayers) you know that the squeeze is going to be felt even further by these ordinary people.

When Clinton started making overtures of war to Putin over the last few years and especially in the last few months as she got stung by wikileaks then the voters could see that another fight or freeze which would take attention global instead of internal would mean that nothing would really change at home.

Therefore when a person runs on a platform that in a nutshell consists of 1) focus on America and rebuilding infrastructure 2) draining the swamp of Washington, 3) build a wall and 4) ban Muslim immigration (which was softened) and 5) repeal and replace Obamacare, you can see how that would appeal to these people.

It was a vote for change and a vote for someone who will make government work for them. It was a rejection of a failed political system.

You can lol and say stupid Americans(/SkStu) or you can try and see past the narrative that has been spun over the last 8 months in particular by the main stream media who are in the pocket of the establishment. Trump is not evil or a monster or the new Hitler. Anyone who thinks that is just plain stupid. He's a 70 year old man who has the mentality of a 70 year old man. He's abrasive, a buffoon and I don't agree with his choice of words a lot of the time but he's a smart and intuitive businessman and person and most definitely not the fool he's been painted as. Conversely, Hillary is not the saint that the MSM would have you believe. It doesn't take a lot of digging to discover a lot of troubling behaviour but she was completely protected by the bought media since the primaries v Sanders (legend - another change candidate who was shut out by the elite insiders). It was a disgusting effort from her, her team, the DNC and the media.

So the question is, even with all that protection and even with a mundane platform of continuity, why did she lose? It wasn't because 50% of American voters are racist and sexist. Again, that's a stupid conclusion. It was because Trumps message was more appealing to people who wanted a candidate who would fight for the things that would make a difference to them. It remains to be seen if he can/will deliver on those promises but he must be given a chance. That is democracy.

[Wolfman]

Nah, he's still a c***, regardless of the US's pathetic political 'system'.
And 'change'? Only for the worse.
Based on bigotry, hatred, hypocrisy, ignorance and prejudice FFS.

[SkStu]

You're making the mistake of focussing on one of his campaign issues and ignoring the rest and ignoring the social context. I'm not trying to defend Trump or say he's a saint as he clearly is not. But you have to try and understand why he appeals to a lot of republicans, democrats, independents, blacks, whites, Latinos and Asians all voted for him in large numbers. It goes beyond the one dimension we have been force fed by the MSM and that has been greedily swallowed down by the majority of the sheeple.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think anybody's really disputing the fact that people are turning to Trump because they're fed up or alienated by or even excluded by mainstream politics.

It's all the other **** that goes with it.

[SkStu]

But then you have to say is there a whole load of other sh*t that comes with HRC and the answer there too is a resounding yes even if some of her sh*t is deemed more acceptable for some reason. Yknow the cool stuff like ignoring rules, bribery and warmongering.

So for most it's a case of pick your poison. Most went for change at any cost. And it's understandable.

[Charlie Darwin]

I have no time for HRC so I wouldn't waste my time mounting a defence.

I'd draw a pretty clear line between warmongering, which every US president does, and the sort of race-baiting and bullish misogyny Trump indulges in. And I think voting for Trump requires tacit acceptance of those things in a way it doesn't if you'd voted for Clinton or Romney or whoever.

[osarusan]

I expected Clinton to win, because I completely underestimated the sale of the disenfranchisement, and rather than alienating potential voters, Trump's comments appealed to them. I posted this elsewhere:
___

I read a good line in a piece somewhere about those people in the rust belt who voted for Trump.

It was something like this: After years of letters that were never replied to and phone calls that were never returned, Trump is a brick through the window.

He sensed the huge amount of anger and disenfranchisement out there, and capitalised on it. I still think he's the last person, and will be surrounded by the last people, that you would expect to do anything about it.

Whatever about his personal charisma, it says a lot for Obama's legacy that, after 8 years of a Democratic presidency (notwithstanding his being hindered by Republicans), people were ready to elect somebody Trump.

[bennocelt]

Foreign Policy:
Myanmar transition
Iran nuclear deal framework
Israel/Hamas peace agreement/ceasefire
Promoting LGBT rights in Africa as Secretary of State
HIV/AIDS testing and treatment through Clinton Foundation partnership with ANTIAIDS and the Victor Pinchuk Foundation in Ukraine
Launched Global Hunger and Food Security program
Saved the Turkish-Armenian accord
Co-sponsored Afghan Women and Children Relief Act of 2001
Co-sponsored Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act of 2001
Co-sponsored Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act of 2006
Co-sponsored Iraq Reconstruction Accountability Act of 2006
Co-sponsored Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act of 2006

Health:
Expanded the Family Medical Leave Act to include national guard/reservist
Co-sponsored Prevention First Act (family planning)
Changed State Department policy to include same sex couples in Diplomat benefits package
Lead group investigating 9/11-related illnesses in first responders (her Senate successor ended up passing her bill)
Co-founded Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families
Helped increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma for NIH
Helped investigate Gulf War Syndrome
Co-sponsored Traumatic Brain Injury Act of 2008
Co-sponsored ALS Registry Act
Co-sponsored Poison Center Support, Enhancement, and Awareness Act of 2008
Co-sponsored Veterans’ Mental Health and Other Care Improvements Act of 2008

Education:
Built Arkansas’ Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youngsters
Reformed Arkansas’ education system as chair of the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee
Co-sponsored Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Improvement Act of 2006

9/11:
Instrumental in bringing $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center site’s redevelopment
Established family compensation/small business loan programs
Co-sponsored Procedural Fairness for September 11 Victims Act of 2007

Children/Women:
Helped create Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice
Helped pass Adoption and Safe Families Act
Helped pass Foster Care Independence Act
Supported and promoted the passage and rollout of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), which expanded health insurance for children in lower-income families.
Co-sponsored Native American Breast and Cervical Cancer Treatment Technical Amendment Act of 2001
Co-sponsored Pediatric Research Equity Act of 2003
Co-sponsored PREEMIE Act
Co-sponsored Newborn Screening Saves Lives Act of 2007

This is considered by many to be one of the turning points of international women’s rights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXM4E23Efvk
In 1995, during an unprecedented address in Beijing to the United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women, Hillary recounted worldwide abuses and declared “It is time for us to say here in Beijing, and for the world to hear, that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women’s rights as separate from human rights.”

Career:
Staff attorney for the Children’s Defense Fund in Cambridge
Board member of the Yale Review of Law and Social Action
Legal work at the Yale Child Study Center for child abuse
Volunteer at New Haven Legal Assistance Association
Director of the Arkansas Legal Aid Clinic
Chair of the American Bar Association’s Commission on Women in the Profession

Political Career:
Researcher on migrant worker problems — Subcommittee on Migrant Labor
Jimmy Carter’s Indiana director of field operations
Chaired Arkansas’ Rural Health Advisory Committee, working to expand medical facilities for the poor
Chair of the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee
Chair of Presidential Task Force on National Health Care Reform
First Lady of Arkansas
First Lady of the United States
United States Senator from New York
United States Secretary of State

Voting Rights
Wrote Count Every Vote Act of 2005
Co-sponsored re-introducing the Equal Rights Amendment

More legislation (that became law)
Co-sponsored Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009
Co-sponsored Methamphetamine Production Prevention Act of 2008
Co-sponsored PROTECT Our Children Act of 2008
Co-sponsored KIDS Act of 2008
Co-sponsored Broadband Data Improvement Act
Co-sponsored Appalachian Regional Development Act Amendments of 2008
Co-sponsored Healthy Start Reauthorization Act of 2007
Co-sponsored Hematological Cancer Research Investment and Education Act of 2002
Co-sponsored Persian Gulf War POW/MIA Accountability Act of 2002
Co-sponsored FHA Downpayment Simplification Act of 2002
Co-sponsored Strengthen AmeriCorps Program Act
Co-sponsored 21st Century Nanotechnology Research and Development Act

Legislation Vetoed
Co-sponsored Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007

SOURCE: https://medium.com/@hodgesmr/so-what-are-hillary-clintons-achievements-325a341ef0e7#.41iptaa5t



COPY and PASTE, gotta love it!!!:p

Absolutely delighted Trump won, another big F U to the establishment. I mean how bad does Clinton have to be to lose to Trump! What were the Democratic party thinking.
All the mud slinging about "racism" and all the rest doesn't hide the fact that ordinary people want a change, even if that change could be a horror ride.

Also isn't it nice that we wont have a war with Russia till at least next summer......

[thischarmingman]

COPY and PASTE, gotta love it!!!:p

Well, should I rewrite every bill in a more colloquial way? Shuffle things around?

[bennocelt]

Well, should I rewrite every bill in a more colloquial way? Shuffle things around?

Just tell us what you think.....that usually works.:D

Hearing the BBC world service on the background from Dublin Castle......nice of Mary Lou to criticise FG over Enda Kenny's uturn, while forgetting about the time Dear Donald visited an IRA fundraiser with Gerry......

[Wolfman]

Complete drivel BC.