Next years first division

[Lim till i die]

Athlone
Cabo RFC
Cobh Wanderers
Black and red athlone
The artist formerly known as shelbourne
Waterford
Mick Wallace.


People often argue for one division.

Would anyone notice if we allowed this lot drift away on their garbage barge?

[pineapple stu]

I'm not sure what to read into us being left off that list.

[Lim till i die]

UCD are a brilliant club. Needed to produce players for us proper clubs while we spend on our money on wages. :ball:

[pineapple stu]

Feeling the love. Huzzah! :)

[White Horse]

Feeling the love. Huzzah! :)

Always appreciated in Dundalk.

[Longfordian]

If we weren't in the LOI I'd have to post my crap on the "Other Clubs" forum and that's no good for anyone. That said I do wonder why we bother sometimes.

[ybig]

Athlone
Cabo RFC
Cobh Wanderers
Black and red athlone
The artist formerly known as shelbourne
Waterford
Mick Wallace.


People often argue for one division.

Would anyone notice if we allowed this lot drift away on their garbage barge?


dont throw stones in glasshouses..

[Hitman]

I'm not sure what to read into us being left off that list.

I think he's biased against your club.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Of the 8 there you could forsee 4 clubs potentially challenging or being there or there abouts in terms of the top three. UCD always going to be involved, Waterford with new investment, if Longford can get their act together like Drogheda did, Cobh if they keep the good work up. Not sure about Wexford going forward.

[legendz]

Would anyone notice if we allowed this lot drift away on their garbage barge?You ask such a question off the back of First Division teams winning the Premier Division playoff three years in-a-row!!! :D How many years of the last 25 have Limerick spent in the second tier?

The First Division has been gutted. It was a strong healthy 12 team division. Derry and Cork had to reset down there. People know the history of the Premier expanding to 12 again. That obviously took quality from the tier below.

The division seems to have found it's feet after the struggle to only field 7 first teams in 2014. It's healthy for the League of Ireland to have a tier a step away from the limelight. It's wasn't put under scrutiny for having only 7 first teams. 8 teams playing over 4 series isn't put under the spotlight either.

Unforeseen circumstances can happen again that a big club might be down there for a year or two.

With non-LoI entities from non-LoI areas being allowed join the underage leagues, it's unknown if that will lead to more clubs joining the league? With the U17 league having started in 2015 and the U15 league set to start in 2017, the U13 league will possibly start in 2019?

As much as I'm an advocate for an intermediary league, the focus is correctly on the underage setup. When the underage leagues are in place, clubs should have a better idea on whether an intermediary league is feasible and a necessary step between underage to senior level. A decision might need to be made in how non-LoI entities in the underage league join the LoI at senior level?

The FAI seem to have learned from mistakes made with the A Championship. The underage leagues seem to be only allowing entities from non-LoI areas. This should avoid a repeat of the 3 clubs in Galway situation.

The FAI will either seek expressions of interest again for the First Division or reinstate the A Championship. If they do reinstate the intermediary tier, there should be no obligation on LoI clubs, just optional. Participation in the underage leagues will have to be mandatory for new entities who should only come from non-LoI areas.

Regardless of expressions of interest or intermediary leagues, the First Division and it's clubs definitely a place in the League of Ireland.

[JC_GUFC]

Probably not said much by fans of Galway United but we should have taken much more from Mervue and a lesser extent Salthill playing in Division 1.
Players playing in Division 1 are much better prepared for Premier Division League of Ireland than any of the "best player in Galway Junior League" I have ever seen.

Looking at the likes of Cobh and Athlone in the 2nd half of the season and possibly even Cabo I would expect a fair few players to be playing in the Premier with other clubs in years to come.

I think there is a big role to play for Division 1 but clubs have to be sensible. Paying journeymen to try and get you out of the Division is crazy. I know a lot was going on at Athlone but no wonder they struggled for support when fans couldn't identify with any players. I would say similar was true of Roddy's team at Waterford. Why would anyone go to support a bunch of Dubs with no prospect of promotion? At least if it's committed young lads they could be the next Sean Maguire etc.

[outspoken]

Oh look at the Limerick fan with his head up his h0le after one season. Enjoy signing Conor Powell from us and getting thumped by the big boys again.

[bluewhitearmy]

Oh look at the First Division Champions 2016 Limerick FC fan with his head up his h0le after one season. Enjoy signing Conor Powell from us and getting thumped by the big boys again.

Fixed.

[GUFCghost]

Why are there no proper provincial leagues?Surely the transport costs can't be that astronomical?

[oldyouth]

Would anyone notice if we allowed this lot drift away on their garbage barge?

The sole reason the 1st Division exists to to accommodate whatever version of Limerick is in place at the time, when they implode. Therefore it still has a future

[legendz]

Why are there no proper provincial leagues?Surely the transport costs can't be that astronomical?Ruud Dokter made a valid point that he could not implement a youth structure from another country in Ireland. He had to find what was appropriate for the country.

The restoration of the A Championship would seem more appropriate in a similar vein than linking provincial leagues to the LoI. We're unlikely to see any moves like that until the youth leagues are all in place.

[CraftyToePoke]

Oh look at the Limerick fan with his head up his h0le after one season. Enjoy signing Conor Powell from us and getting thumped by the big boys again.

LTID catches himself a fish.

[bluewhitearmy]

The sole reason the 1st Division exists to to accommodate whatever version of First Division Champions 2016 Limerick FC is in place at the time, when they implode. Therefore it still has a future

Lads I wont keep doing it for ye get a grip now please.

Also have ye even been in the league long enough to see more than one version of Limerick?

[sadloserkid]

The sole reason the 1st Division exists to to accommodate whatever version of Limerick is in place at the time, when they implode. Therefore it still has a future

You keep it warm for us so won't you? :)

The sole reason Wexford Youths exists is because a crooked, dishonest property developer wanted a vanity project that would allow him to continue pretending he's Italian instead of, you know, doing things like paying tax or raising kids who won't pretend they were abused by their teachers on Facebook.

[bennocelt]

You keep it warm for us so won't you? :)

The sole reason Wexford Youths exists is because a crooked, dishonest property developer wanted a vanity project that would allow him to continue pretending he's Italian instead of, you know, doing things like paying tax or raising kids who won't pretend they were abused by their teachers on Facebook.

what? lol

[sadloserkid]

what? lol

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/four-boys-including-mick-wallaces-son-expelled-over-facebook-sex-claims-about-teachers-26854499.html

As punishment, Mick brought the boy to watch during Euro 2012... to be fair, the punishment may not have fit the crime.

[gufcfan]

Would anyone notice if we allowed this lot drift away on their garbage barge?

Part of the problem with the First Division is that there are no sporting consequences for being ****e, other than being stuck in the division of course.

[fionnsci]

Any talk of any clubs wanting to make the step up? I remember there being talk of St Kevin's doing a Cabo in order to gain access to the national underage leagues. Hopefully it won't be too long before Monaghan return, the Monaghan/Cavan underage side is hopefully a blueprint for that.

As for talk above of restoring the A Championship, surely there's no appetite or need for this. Even the Premier League has largely disbanded its reserve system in favor of underage leagues. Increased costs for clubs that would be better spent on youth development. A better avenue for senior teams to gradually join the LOI if they're not ready to step right in than the A Championship would be to first enter the u17 league then work your way up and join the First Division. There's not exactly excess demand keeping clubs down the queue.

[sbgawa]

No way will the fai allow that. We don't need another loi club in dublin. Plus the likes of kevins will still only have an interest in the child slave trade to the UK

[ATFC-1887]

Clonmel are applying for a licence i was told

[nigel-harps1954]

Clonmel are applying for a licence i was told

Town/Celtic?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'm sure the usual rumours will float around this winter. Tralee, Carlow, somewhere in Meath. In the end it just isn't worth it for new clubs. That latest report didn't even broach the topic.

I don't want more Cabinteely's in the league either. No offence to them, but we all know they aren't going anywhere fast.

[legendz]

As for talk above of restoring the A Championship, surely there's no appetite or need for this. Even the Premier League has largely disbanded its reserve system in favor of underage leagues. Increased costs for clubs that would be better spent on youth development. A better avenue for senior teams to gradually join the LOI if they're not ready to step right in than the A Championship would be to first enter the u17 league then work your way up and join the First Division. There's not exactly excess demand keeping clubs down the queue.There's a Premier League 2 across the water. It replaced their U21 league with age limit raised to U23. The priority is rightly on the structures from U13 to U19. Once those structures are in place, if an intermediary league is feasible and seen as a necessary step, the A Championship could be restored. It could be U23 for LoI teams with no age limit for non-LoI entities.


Clonmel are applying for a licence i was toldIs that for the underage leagues?

[bluewhitearmy]

I'm sure the usual rumours will float around this winter. Tralee, Carlow, somewhere in Meath. In the end it just isn't worth it for new clubs. That latest report didn't even broach the topic.

I don't want more Cabinteely's in the league either. No offence to them, but we all know they aren't going anywhere fast.

I'd be happier wit more Cabos than a one tier system tbh.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Talking about potential LOI clubs has always been a exercise in futility of course, but you still wonder about the urban centres in Ireland bigger than, say Longford or Wexford or Cobh, that could support a LOI club if the locals were arsed or if it wasn't such a financial dead-end. Places like Navan, Ennis or Kilkenny.

I mean, Clonmel would be interesting, for sure, No idea how competitive you could reasonably expect them to be,

[Comic Book Guy]

Talking about potential LOI clubs has always been a exercise in futility of course, but you still wonder about the urban centres in Ireland bigger than, say Longford or Wexford or Cobh, that could support a LOI club if the locals were arsed or if it wasn't such a financial dead-end. Places like Navan, Ennis or Kilkenny.

I mean, Clonmel would be interesting, for sure, No idea how competitive you could reasonably expect them to be,

Were they to join I'd say they'd be able to hold their own within a year or two, one of the advantages that they have is that Clonmel is a decent sized town, their ground also is pretty close to the town centre which is a big help imo (e.g Kilkenny were always at a disadvantage given their ground was a few miles outside the city). Less travelling for us too:o

[Quayman]

It amazes me how the north has a 4 tier system and then a link from the amateur leagues into this "senior" system. how we can't establish something like this is a joke.

[legendz]

It amazes me how the north has a 4 tier system and then a link from the amateur leagues into this "senior" system. how we can't establish something like this is a joke.Where's it getting them though gauging by crowds and European results?

[oriel]

Also don't forget all football in the north plays winter season.

It would be good to have a link from LOI FD to say the Leinster or Munster leagues, both would prob have the strongest junior teams, but they all play winter compared to summer for LOI.

A massive challenge for the Irish league is playing in Europe a full month before they play a competitive domestic match, but next years FD is going to be a massive challenge for the LOI. It's probably the weakest standard in its 30 year existence.

[Macy]

It amazes me how the north has a 4 tier system and then a link from the amateur leagues into this "senior" system. how we can't establish something like this is a joke.
afaik, the IFA has a proper structure, unlike the FAI. Too many equally weighted sections in the FAI to have any coherent overall plan.

[sadloserkid]

Where's it getting them though gauging by crowds and European results?

Don't you tirelessly rail for the restoration of the A Championship and a senior team in every village, hamlet and crossroads in the country? I would have expected you to be all over this tbh.

[legendz]

Don't you tirelessly rail for the restoration of the A Championship and a senior team in every village, hamlet and crossroads in the country? I would have expected you to be all over this tbh.I see merits in an intermediary league where it's optional for LoI clubs and clubs from mainly non-LoI are allowed join if they are part of the underage leagues. I can't see one being put in place until after the U13 league is in place.

I thought the Munster Senior League is full of Cork teams? Linked to the First Division will that lead a repeat of the Galway situation of too many LoI clubs for the area?If there's a need for another LoI club in a LoI area, I'm sure they can apply to join the underage leagues and First Division if more expressions of interest are sought?

[Pablo Escobar]

I thought the Munster Senior League is full of Cork teams?

It is. There's not one team in any of the MSL divisions from outside of Cork. It's just one of our many league systems at this stage, but it is the highest quality. We love our factions down here.

[GC13]

There's a Premier League 2 across the water. It replaced their U21 league with age limit raised to U23. The priority is rightly on the structures from U13 to U19. Once those structures are in place, if an intermediary league is feasible and seen as a necessary step, the A Championship could be restored. It could be U23 for LoI teams with no age limit for non-LoI entities.

Is that for the underage leagues?

This is a viable starting option - problem with the under age development to senior level are the gaps, grated the u/15's will start however it should bring in u/13 next - the gap from u/19 to senior is too great for some that need a bit more time - having an u/23 with a option to play two overage players for loi teams would be sensible. i think the key will to keep it competitive so it is a part of the player development.

[legendz]

It is. There's not one team in any of the MSL divisions from outside of Cork. It's just one of our many league systems at this stage, but it is the highest quality. We love our factions down here.Cork City had their bid to enter a B team rejected then as well.

Kerry and Monaghan-Cavan have shown the way for other non-LoI areas. Talk of Clonmel must be regards the U15 league and/or U17 league.

[CraftyToePoke]

I don't want more Cabinteely's in the league either. No offence to them, but we all know they aren't going anywhere fast.

Are they that different from where Wexford Youths would have been at their outset ? Happy to be corrected if so.

[nigel-harps1954]

In all fairness, I think Cabinteely have been a grand addition to the league.

[gufcfan]

In all fairness, I think Cabinteely have been a grand addition to the league.

The attitude they have towards the league is the important thing.

Imagine the horror show some of the clubs that moaned about not being let in would be if they have LOI teams. Fielding teams in a league in which teams that actually want to be there find it difficult and this other lot then almost doing it under protest. No thanks.

[Philosophizer]

Talking about potential LOI clubs has always been a exercise in futility of course, but you still wonder about the urban centres in Ireland bigger than, say Longford or Wexford or Cobh, that could support a LOI club if the locals were arsed or if it wasn't such a financial dead-end. Places like Navan, Ennis or Kilkenny.

A team in Navan would find it very tough to draw any type of meaningful supporter base. In Meath, gaelic football is king and always will be, even if the county team has gone to sh!te recently. Navan has a decent population (around 30k i think) and a big catchment area, but there's a bunch of v well established and successful GAA clubs in and around the town (O'Mahoney's, Simonstown, Senchalstown, Wolfe Tones, Rathkenny, Skryne etc) and Navan rugby club has been very prominent in the town for years too. Navan Cosmos and Park Villa are decent football teams but it's a gaelic football town, with rugby and football battling it out for a distant 2nd place. Same applies for other urban centres like Ashbourne.

Also, Colm O'Rourke still has a big influence in Navan. He's the principal in the main boys secondary school in the town (which has about 1000 pupils listed at any time). He's involved with the school's gaelic football teams and they are usually v good. I don't think the school has ever even had a soccer team. which further entrenches the GAA dominance.

[legendz]

Also, Colm O'Rourke still has a big influence in Navan. He's the principal in the main boys secondary school in the town (which has about 1000 pupils listed at any time). He's involved with the school's gaelic football teams and they are usually v good. I don't think the school has ever even had a soccer team. which further entrenches the GAA dominance.GAA dominance hasn't stopped Kerry teams being part of the old U21 league, defunct A Championship and recent U17 league.

The upcoming U15 league and existing LoI underage leagues are a suitable platform for soccer people in Meath or any area.

[Philosophizer]

GAA dominance hasn't stopped Kerry teams being part of the old U21 league, defunct A Championship and recent U17 league.

The upcoming U15 league and existing LOI underage leagues are a suitable platform for soccer people in Meath or any area.

I'm not saying it can't be done - simply explaining that Navan (and Meath in general) is not, and never has never been a hotbed for soccer so a LOI club would find it hard to survive. I heard recently that we've never had anyone from the county earn a cap for the ROI team. There's very little tradition of soccer in Meath, even less than Kerry i'd say. At least you have Tralee Dynamos who've been interested in joining the LOI in the past.
Our proximity to Dublin probably hasn't helped though. The best kids in the meath leagues are quickly spotted and brought to a Dublin club or Drogheda boys if they're good enough so our underage (club and representative) teams tend to be quite weak too. It's a cycle which perpetuates itself. The biggest club in the county would be Parkvilla in Navan. They're a middling LSL team and have never shown any interest in becoming a LOI club. Maybe they know that it would be too much of a struggle.

[legendz]

I'm not saying it can't be done - simply explaining that Navan (and Meath in general) is not, and never has never been a hotbed for soccer so a LOI club would find it hard to survive.If that's the lie of the land, it's the way it is. Hopefully as the underage leagues become established, more areas will join.

[EatYerGreens]

With non-LoI entities from non-LoI areas being allowed join the underage leagues, it's unknown if that will lead to more clubs joining the league? With the U17 league having started in 2015 and the U15 league set to start in 2017, the U13 league will possibly start in 2019?

As much as I'm an advocate for an intermediary league, the focus is correctly on the underage setup. When the underage leagues are in place, clubs should have a better idea on whether an intermediary league is feasible and a necessary step between underage to senior level. A decision might need to be made in how non-LoI entities in the underage league join the LoI at senior level?


I just don't see what's in it for 99%+ of current non-LOI teams to want to enter the senior ranks to be honest.

Beyond Board room ego or ill-defined ideas of 'ambition', why would they ? It's a huge step-up in costs with little additional income generated, and they'll have seen the likes of strong clubs like Monaghan, Kilkenny, St Francis etc give it a go and get their fingers burned. Much simpler and strategically beneficial for clubs to instead focus on their own facilities, their underage set up etc, rather than roll the financial dice on joining a League that most of them look down on anyway.

Until the FAI pumps significantly more money into the prize funds available for finishing at every rung of the senior ladder, I just don't see what's in it for anyone new to join. The lack of clubs knocking on the FAI's door for entry would seem to support that view as well.

[sbgawa]

I just don't see what's in it for 99%+ of current non-LOI teams to want to enter the senior ranks to be honest.

Beyond Board room ego or ill-defined ideas of 'ambition', why would they ? It's a huge step-up in costs with little additional income generated, and they'll have seen the likes of strong clubs like Monaghan, Kilkenny, St Francis etc give it a go and get their fingers burned. Much simpler and strategically beneficial for clubs to instead focus on their own facilities, their underage set up etc, rather than roll the financial dice on joining a League that most of them look down on anyway.

Until the FAI pumps significantly more money into the prize funds available for finishing at every rung of the senior ladder, I just don't see what's in it for anyone new to join. The lack of clubs knocking on the FAI's door for entry would seem to support that view as well.

The reason the DDSL clubs want to join is to prevent their players leaving to join the Dublin LOI underage setups from 14 years old.
They could run an amateur team of their 18 and 19 year olds in the LOI first division...finish bottom every year and still get the transfer fees to the UK for the kids they send over at 15.

[EatYerGreens]

Your post seems to suggest that there is a movement amongst DDS clubs to want to game the LOI First Division to take advantage of overseas transfer fees.

Is there any evidence of this ? Which DDSL clubs are genuinely trying to join the LOI ? Have any of them expressed a firm interest (St Kevin's was mentioned above, but it seemed to be more rumour than fact) ? I can't see the FAI wanting more Dublin clubs in the League anyway, so what clubs want and what they may be able to get could be too very different things.

Even if there was a few looking to join - I still can't see the economics of it working out. How much in transfer fees do these clubs genuinely pocket in the average year ? And how would that compare to the cost of having to run a senior club in a national league ? And how much would the underage development etc suffer (and thereby the pot f gold at the end of the rainbow) if the same small pool of volunteers were having to run a senior club as well as their usual underage set up ? They'd attract very little if any additional help by being a senior club, so someone has to cover the additional workload involved