Richie Sadlier on Second Captains

[GUFCghost]

He spoke very well about Dundalk the state of the league in general,what did ye think?
Starts at about 28:09 https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains-it-com/man-city-lose-pep-shine-dundalks-bigger-picture-bung-culture-abides

[El-Pietro]

Like everything with Richie Sadlier I think hes overly critical and negative. The points he made were fine but I think the majority of fans aren't as extreme as he makes it seem.

[Philosophizer]

usually I like Richie a lot but when he talks about his LOI experience he is extremely negative. I'm sure there are some small minded ppl in each LOI club but Richie makes it seem like 90% of ppl involved at LOI clubs are total morans. He certainly never looks at it optimistically.

[GUFCghost]

usually I like Richie a lot but when he talks about his LOI experience he is extremely negative. I'm sure there are some small minded ppl in each LOI club but Richie makes it seem like 90% of ppl involved at LOI clubs are total morans. He certainly never looks at it optimistically.

He seemed to start optimistically,or at least empathetically ,then gradually got angrier. Probably a bit scared from his experience at pats.

Some very good points about Dundalk's money were made. Seven million really is feck all in terms of professional sport

[White Horse]

He spoke very well about Dundalk the state of the league in general,what did ye think?[/URL]

He did what he usually does, ridicule people involved in LOI football.

This was not a segment about Dundalk. It was a segment about how other clubs are too petty minded to welcome Dundalk's success.

Of all the angles on the Dundalk story that those second captain cnuts could have discussed, they had to chose one the paints the league in a bad light.

[TonyD]

usually I like Richie a lot but when he talks about his LOI experience he is extremely negative. I'm sure there are some small minded ppl in each LOI club but Richie makes it seem like 90% of ppl involved at LOI clubs are total morans. He certainly never looks at it optimistically.

I don't mind Sadlier either, he makes some good points at times, but ultimately he had the chance to contribute and maybe make a difference at Pats, but decided that was too difficult and took the easy option of sitting on the sidelines pontificating instead. Far easier, and you don't have to produce results. Remember, Richie is the man who gave Jeff Kenna the managers job at Pats.

[Louth4sam]

I honestly think Sadlier sees an opportunity of being the controversial pundit. Dunphy isn't gonna be around for ever and I think Sadlier will be gunning for his position

[gufcfan]

He can do one after the Prime Time thing. I think people are right about him just wanting to stir the pot. Knows exactly what he's doing. Reminds me of a journo once upon a time that had intimate knowledge of a situation at a LOI club and went on national radio to completely mischaracterised it, obviously deliberately.

[legendz]

The presenters of that and non LoI "soccer fans" have a perception that Dundalk will take the rest of their domestic games lightly, so as to focus on their European games and the financial rewards it can offer. They can't seem to make the connection that Dundalk need to win the league to get back into the CL qualifiers next year.

[nigel-harps1954]

Second Captains is a load of boll0cks and Richie Sadlier couldn't bring himself to say anything positive about the LOI if he was paid to do so.

[Acornvilla]

Dunno, lads, I think you're all over reacting a bit, I thought what he said was fair enough, and pretty much the reality of the situation, and when he did say something negative, he usually tried to balance, by remarking that there are members of clubs and fans who aren't as extreme and think the opposite etc.
They also did emphasize that dundalk need to win the league to be in the CL.


As for the schoolboy stuff from the other night, I got the impression, that he likely said a lot more and it was the editing of the piece that made him look awful, it was an incredibly biased excuse for journalism.

[legendz]

As for the schoolboy stuff from the other night, I got the impression, that he likely said a lot more and it was the editing of the piece that made him look awful, it was an incredibly biased excuse for journalism.
He's responding to most on twitter if anyone wants to debate it with him?!

[Philosophizer]

I thought what he said was fair enough, and pretty much the reality of the situation, and when he did say something negative, he usually tried to balance, by remarking that there are members of clubs and fans who aren't as extreme and think the opposite etc.

I've no doubt his stories are true, but in my view it's not balanced if he spends 5 mins ridiculing club administrators with stories of pettiness and small-mindedness, but then adds 10 second speech saying that there are lots of excellent people doing excellent work too.

He clearly found working in the LOI environment to be very frustrating but he doesn't have to stick the boot in every chance he gets. I get the impression he just wasn't a good enough communicator for that role. You need a lot of patience and diplomatic savvy (as well as other attributes) to succeed in a position like that - most people just don't have it. Don't get me wrong now, I generally like listening to him a lot because he seems to be quite intelligent, thoughtful and articulate, but that doesn't mean he can succeed at everything he puts his hand to.

[disgruntled]

Just listened to all the program.
I always thought that Sadlier was a realistic voice on Soccer & nothing I have heard in the program has changed my mind on that.
He said it as it is with no attempt to hide away & always say the nice things for fear of upsetting anyone as distinct from the likes of Dunphy who says things just to get a reaction.

This makes me think that what he said on the Prime Time program was either heavily edited or taken totally out of context.
It goes to show that you can't believe everything you hear & its very easy to take something & twist it to mean something totally different.

[legendz]

This makes me think that what he said on the Prime Time program was either heavily edited or taken totally out of context.His twitter comments suggest his comments were not strongly edited and nor were they taken out of context.

He never replied to someone's tweet: "SKB are not being 'removed'. If LOI19/17 was so bad, young players wouldn't bother with it. SKB still doing what they do."

[disgruntled]

His twitter comments suggest his comments were not strongly edited and nor were they taken out of context.

He never replied to someone's tweet: "SKB are not being 'removed'. If LOI19/17 was so bad, young players wouldn't bother with it. SKB still doing what they do."

Sorry, don't have twitter so can't comment on that.

As to the LOI under age structure I think its the only way to go.
I am of the opinion that schoolboys should start with their local club up to age 12 or 13 & if they show sufficient promise should continue their football education through the League of Ireland under age structure up to senior level.
During that time they will receive coaching & training which will enable them to be better prepared should they go on to have professional careers in the UK or elsewhere.

However due compensation & attention must be paid to the clubs where they started their football.
This could be in the form of assisting schoolboy clubs with equipment & coaching assistance plus a percentage of any transfer fees into the future of that players career. This percentage would be on any transfer fee for that player during his career.
This would insure that any transfer monies would filter down through the leagues to the clubs where a player started their career.

[sbgawa]

Sorry, don't have twitter so can't comment on that.

As to the LOI under age structure I think its the only way to go.
I am of the opinion that schoolboys should start with their local club up to age 12 or 13 & if they show sufficient promise should continue their football education through the League of Ireland under age structure up to senior level.
During that time they will receive coaching & training which will enable them to be better prepared should they go on to have professional careers in the UK or elsewhere.

However due compensation & attention must be paid to the clubs where they started their football.
This could be in the form of assisting schoolboy clubs with equipment & coaching assistance plus a percentage of any transfer fees into the future of that players career. This percentage would be on any transfer fee for that player during his career.
This would insure that any transfer monies would filter down through the leagues to the clubs where a player started their career.

Completely agree and then we wouldn't have the DDSL clubs encouraging 15 year old kids to leave school to go to a UK academy and bet their lives on "making it"

[sbgawa]

Completely agree and then we wouldn't have the DDSL clubs encouraging 15 year old kids to leave school to go to a UK academy and bet their lives on "making it"

For the sake of a 5k fee

[Nesta99]

Isnt that what does or is supposed to happen to benefit all the clubs involved in a players development with such a system of training compensation in place?

A change in mindset wouldnt go amiss by 'local' clubs also. They should view themselves as part of a pathway in player development in co-operation with senior clubs, not work against them, despite of them or to spite them as I have seen happen myself. The player should come first and should not be a pawn between egos or historical issues or disagreements between the different levels of the coaching structures. Young players should be allowed aspire to get to the top of the game but not be deemed a failure if a transfer straight to Man Utd doesnt materialise - there is a route for players in the domestic game here too as we know. There are many schoolboy coaches that pour scorn on League of Ireland clubs coaching players, maybe the coaching itself is not very different and it shouldnt be if coaches follow the methods set out when doing coaching badges, but there is at minimum the chance to interact with older pros who have been abroad and back, or who have carved out successful careers in LoI. There are greater benefits to having access to LoI level coaching from U13 ON no matter how well intended kids parents ARE when trying to 'encourage' and ignore what may be on offer in their area. But aside from coaching benefits that young players could have access to it is a shame to hear the credibility and contribution LoI makes to football in this country often derided before a local club coach has even spoken in any way to the coaching staff at a senior club. Rivalry, the 'what would they know' attitude, almost territorial claims made on players against a club that represents a region. It wasnt always done well in the past but that is no reason for any coach to be an obstruction to a young players general development over quite often petty gripes from decades previous. It happens far to often still imo and there is no shortage of resistance to the introduction of lower age groups for LoI clubs. If we could get something between U19s and senior going properly we will be well on the way to doing thing a lot better. Ok I have been working all night and maybe this is a meaningless ramble but demonising LoI or the FAI with this initiative is short sighted and self serving to quite a few wannabe Mourhinos or whomever!

[legendz]

If we could get something between U19s and senior going properly we will be well on the way to doing thing a lot better.Has Ruud Dokter made any comments on something between U19s and senior level? It doesn't seem part of any current plan. If it is part of a longterm plan, it'll probably be further down the pipeline. When LoI clubs have teams from U13 to senior, they'll be better placed to know if a reserve team is viable.

Non-LoI entities have been invited to apply for the U15 league. Monaghan-Cavan and Kerry are already involved in the U17 league. Players will have an opportunity to develop in these areas up until about leaving cert year.

I don't know the ins and outs of the state of the game in Tipperary and Clare here in Munster. If the powers that be of those district leagues want to develop young players, following Kerry's example might be the way forward? Further afield from here, Mayo stands out as another area that might benefit from linking up with the underage leagues?

From a Kerry point of view, if senior level isn't feasible, underage involvement should benefit future Oscar Traynor Cup teams, as should re-entering the league cup. No Kerry club has won the FAI Junior Cup. Years of involvement in the national underage leagues should go some way in helping Kerry clubs to try and achieve success at that level.

[Philosophizer]

Was Sadlier bullied during his time in the LOI or something? He certainly seem to have a gripe because any time he speaks about the LOI these day he's a total anti LOI moan-bag!

[Mr A]

Not sure it's just about the LOI, he seems to be a whinging git in general.

[Straightstory]

Dunphy on TV after the Ireland game last night was full of praise for the way Dundalk play - which was nice. Talk turned to whether any Dundalk players would be good enough to play for Ireland. Some quick discussion about Dundalk's strength being a 'team', and probably not having individuals good enough make the international side. (Horgan not mentioned). Got the impression Richie was going to be very dismissive about any Dundalk players being selected, but then the discussion moved on (probably back to how dreadfully Ireland had played).
It's difficult for Sadlier replacing Giles on the panel. He's much younger than the other two and seems to be in somewhat a dilemma about how much he should assert himself. Generally, I think he just needs to lighten up a bit and not seek to be controversial. He'll probably 'ease into it' over time.

[Mr A]

Nothing Dunphy says means anything. He a parasite only interested in getting attention and making a lot of money slagging off Irish football.

[White Horse]

Nothing Dunphy says means anything. He a parasite only interested in getting attention and making a lot of money slagging off Irish football.

True, but normally the LOI is an irrelevance on these panels. It is nice that we are no longer invisible.

[disgruntled]

Isnt that what does or is supposed to happen to benefit all the clubs involved in a players development with such a system of training compensation in place?

A change in mindset wouldnt go amiss by 'local' clubs also. They should view themselves as part of a pathway in player development in co-operation with senior clubs, not work against them, despite of them or to spite them as I have seen happen myself. The player should come first and should not be a pawn between egos or historical issues or disagreements between the different levels of the coaching structures. Young players should be allowed aspire to get to the top of the game but not be deemed a failure if a transfer straight to Man Utd doesnt materialise - there is a route for players in the domestic game here too as we know. There are many schoolboy coaches that pour scorn on League of Ireland clubs coaching players, maybe the coaching itself is not very different and it shouldnt be if coaches follow the methods set out when doing coaching badges, but there is at minimum the chance to interact with older pros who have been abroad and back, or who have carved out successful careers in LoI. There are greater benefits to having access to LoI level coaching from U13 ON no matter how well intended kids parents ARE when trying to 'encourage' and ignore what may be on offer in their area. But aside from coaching benefits that young players could have access to it is a shame to hear the credibility and contribution LoI makes to football in this country often derided before a local club coach has even spoken in any way to the coaching staff at a senior club. Rivalry, the 'what would they know' attitude, almost territorial claims made on players against a club that represents a region. It wasnt always done well in the past but that is no reason for any coach to be an obstruction to a young players general development over quite often petty gripes from decades previous. It happens far to often still imo and there is no shortage of resistance to the introduction of lower age groups for LoI clubs. If we could get something between U19s and senior going properly we will be well on the way to doing thing a lot better. Ok I have been working all night and maybe this is a meaningless ramble but demonising LoI or the FAI with this initiative is short sighted and self serving to quite a few wannabe Mourhinos or whomever!

I think the present compensation system covers only the transfer of players up to the age of 23.
After that there's nothing to the schoolboy club as I know it even though that player might be further transferred for multiplies of the original transfer fee. Players often only reach their full potential in their late twenties.
What I had in mind was that every time a player is transferred throughout his career a percentage of the fee would trickle down through the LOI club to the schoolboy club.
This could mean a windfall to the schoolboy club many times more that they originally received.
This would also incentivise the schoolboy club to make sure players went through a LOI club because it might mean many times the fee they would receive if they sold off (pimped) a schoolboy to a UK club at 15 years of age etc.

This would mean a change to Fifa's Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players which would take forever to force through.
There are multiple rules within this document to protect the transfer of minors but people have found ways around most of them including entire families moving to another country so that their pride & joy could go to the academies of large clubs.
I seem to remember a Dublin family moving to Spain some years ago so their little kid could join Barcelona.
Wonder what happened to that kid ?

In the meantime the quickest way would be an increase in the training compensation that a schoolboy club receives when a player is transferred through a LOI club. At least make the amount equal to what the schoolboy clubs receive when they send their budding Ronaldo's over at present.
It must be made more profitable to send players through the LOI system than sending them over directly.

[JC_GUFC]

Like everything with Richie Sadlier I think hes overly critical and negative. The points he made were fine but I think the majority of fans aren't as extreme as he makes it seem.

Agree with that. He was directly asked what the crowd was like at the Cork cup game but even though it was probably the biggest crowd in Richmond for a number of years he didn't answer it, as if it didn't suit his agenda.

I like him as an analyst and his points on SC were fair enough but there are plenty of positives about the league too.

[TonyD]

True, but normally the LOI is an irrelevance on these panels. It is nice that we are no longer invisible.

Exactly. It's nice to see a bit of recognition. Small steps but it all helps.

[legendz]

Walter Murphy, the Manchester United scout who brought Robbie Brady from Kevin’s to Old Trafford, was in Clonmel yesterday. He wouldn’t be drawn on the politics, but admitted the players he was watching aren’t getting enough coaching hours at the moment.

Brighton scout PJ Quirke agreed and feels the U15 League is a solid plan. “In my opinion, at U15 it’s a good thing. But the major clubs in Dublin don’t want it because they will lose players at 13.” Unlike with the other political impasse hogging the headlines, at least with football the good work continues regardless.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/political-impasse-but-irish-boys-rule-czechs-392504.html

What's the obsession with Sadlier? I don't rate him as an analyst. I remember one time himself and Kenny Cunningham were analysts. Sadlier visibly shied away from some talking points and Cunningham dominated.

Sadlier was quick to talk up Brighton in that podcast. Let him react to Brighton's scout agreeing with the LoI U15 league.

[Philosophizer]

What's the obsession with Sadlier? .

Believe it or not those Rte panelists have a massive influence over the general public opinion on football in this country.

If sadlier is consistently ripping on our league in the media it certainly doesn't help our league grow and attract casual footy fans to take an interest in the league.

[Philosophizer]

Ive no problem with him highlighting problems in the LoI (of which there are too many to list) if it's in the context of a balanced discussion, bit with sadlier it's just bitch, moan, whine.

[disgruntled]

Ive no problem with him highlighting problems in the LoI (of which there are too many to list) if it's in the context of a balanced discussion, bit with sadlier it's just bitch, moan, whine.

Maybe there aren't enough good points about the League of Ireland to make it a balanced discussion ?
Yes there are many good things happening in the LOI but these are largely over shadowed by the constant problems involving the league & some of the individuals operating in it.
Having followed the LOI for a long long time there are often times when I find it hard to defend some of the things that go in the LOI.
There's never a week goes by without something ugly rearing its head.

[GUFCghost]

Maybe there aren't enough good points about the League of Ireland to make it a balanced discussion ?
Yes there are many good things happening in the LOI but these are largely over shadowed by the constant problems involving the league & some of the individuals operating in it.
Having followed the LOI for a long long time there are often times when I find it hard to defend some of the things that go in the LOI.
There's never a week goes by without something ugly rearing its head.

What the league needs above all other things is two or three years where the **** doesn't hit the fans,or alternatively,the **** hits the fans in as private a setting as possible. With a bit of leadership this should be possible,the LOI has possibly a more admirable volunteer base than the GAA,the problem is that those volunteers don't have anyone to guide them.

What's the story with the PCA these days? That sounds like a very positive development

[disgruntled]

What the league needs above all other things is two or three years where the **** doesn't hit the fans,or alternatively,the **** hits the fans in as private a setting as possible. With a bit of leadership this should be possible,the LOI has possibly a more admirable volunteer base than the GAA,the problem is that those volunteers don't have anyone to guide them.

What's the story with the PCA these days? That sounds like a very positive development

Seems to have gone very quiet again since the 5k was announced & as usual some clubs had to throw a spat.
Some of the FAI blazers must be delighted.
It would be very positive if the clubs would learn to keep their mouths shut.
Do the talking within the PCA & then speak as one voice.