View Full Version : End of the Ferguson Era
well, last night marked the effective end of Sir Alex Ferguson's time in top flight football. Manchester United plc are now light years behind their London betters Chelsea - both on and off the pitch - and are now resigned to a trophyless and slow decline into the sort of territory they used to slag Man City over. It really is some turnaround.
So long old whiskey face, we'll miss your constant moaning, ridiculous over zealous chewing gum technique. Your a dinasaur, old premiership as Chelsea fan Donald Rumsfeld would say. Make way for the new breed - Chelsea FC!
well, last night marked the effective end of Sir Alex Ferguson's time in top flight football. Manchester United plc are now light years behind their London betters Chelsea - both on and off the pitch - and are now resigned to a trophyless and slow decline into the sort of territory they used to slag Man City over. It really is some turnaround.
Ah come on, worst case scenario United would have to go 29 years trophyless to compare with the liars. :D
but do you agree its all over now - we live in changed times - Cantonas Kung Fu Kick 10th anniversary (the high point of Uniteds power) was barely even celebrated this year.....
admit macy the gig is up
but do you agree its all over now - we live in changed times - Cantonas Kung Fu Kick 10th anniversary (the high point of Uniteds power) was barely even celebrated this year.....
admit macy the gig is up
It didn't go unnoticed that's for sure (and btw 1999 was the highpoint - and kickstarted 3 titles in a row, and the most exciting team was the 94 vintage)...
To early to say whether it's the end. United have been written off before, and come back, so I aint going to make predictions. Chelsea have got it right this year, but they've been big spenders for many years now with limited success. We wait and see.
Key point will be when Fergie steps down/ dies, and who is brought in. (We'll see how Jose is liked when he walks out on the rent boys for Old Trafford).
Key point will be when Fergie steps down/ dies, and who is brought in. (We'll see how Jose is liked when he walks out on the rent boys for Old Trafford).
to me thats practically admitting the balance of power has swung chelseas way - wanting their manager! Ferguson has been bested by any half decent foreigner in the Premiership - Wenger and now Murinho. The quality of Uniteds signings have been so pathetic - Leeds like oblivion I reckon is a year or two away - its been coming.
Conor last night was teh first domestic semi ferguson has lost in england. The game is up. Bring back Big Ron, salvage some pride!
to me thats practically admitting the balance of power has swung chelseas way - wanting their manager! Ferguson has been bested by any half decent foreigner in the Premiership - Wenger and now Murinho. The quality of Uniteds signings have been so pathetic - Leeds like oblivion I reckon is a year or two away - its been coming.
I really know I shouldn't fall for it, you WUM... :D
As a replacement - wouldn't swap Fergie for any other manager if it was a straight choice. If Fergie went, then Mourinho would probably be favourite - Martin O'Neill has a shít style of football.
How do Wenger and Mourinho beat SAF?
I really know I shouldn't fall for it, you WUM... :D
As a replacement - wouldn't swap Fergie for any other manager if it was a straight choice. If Fergie went, then Mourinho would probably be favourite - Martin O'Neill has a shít style of football.
How do Wenger and Mourinho beat SAF?
i find it hilarious that you'd think a smart bloke like Jose Marinio would leave a mega club on the up for one that is fading rapidly - it just does not compute - but its the old fading club syndrome - ie liverpool fans who think they're still european giants - man you fans seem stuck in the same mode - wake up and witness the decline - SAF is a figure of fun now - the kranky old fart being made a mug of - his ways are finished
Even when we didn't win trophies, we were still the biggest club. What will change if it happens again? It could be the last gasp of Fergies United (we're certainly in the last gasp of Keano's), but sure we'll wait and see how it plays out - over the rest of the season, never mind the next few years.
Colm55
27/01/2005, 10:57 AM
but do you agree its all over now - we live in changed times - Cantonas Kung Fu Kick 10th anniversary (the high point of Uniteds power) was barely even celebrated this year.....
admit macy the gig is up
You didn't read tuesdays Evening Herald, full page spread on the man entitled 'kicking King - Sealed Legend'
razor
27/01/2005, 11:21 AM
You didn't read tuesdays Evening Herald, full page spread on the man entitled 'kicking King - Sealed Legend'
When looking back on his own career i'm sure its not something Eric will look back on with pride.
He was a disgrace just as that fool in the crowd was.
Theres no honour in what he did and no need to glorify such violence.
What depths will they sink to next in order to relive past glories?
When looking back on his own career i'm sure its not something Eric will look back on with pride.
He was a disgrace just as that fool in the crowd was.
Theres no honour in what he did and no need to glorify such violence.
What depths will they sink to next in order to relive past glories?
Actually, he recently said "kicking the racist" was one of his proudest moments. Simmons got (and continues to get ;) ) what he deserved. I mean ffs, if nothing else for the crap leather jacket, white socks and slip ons....
jockser
27/01/2005, 12:15 PM
Even when we didn't win trophies, we were still the biggest club.
:D :D :D
:D :D :D
Look at the attendance figures. Even during Liverpools dominance, United still had the highest average attendance in all but one year (when the Scoreboard end was being redeveloped). That included the Division 2 year.
I've only a passing interest but Chelsea will dominate for a few years now.
Manchester United have too many weaknesses - "unsuitable keepers", ageing players who not motivated to win again (Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Neville) & crap backup players. They need fresh manager & clearout half the 1st team players.
Arsenal have hunger for success but threadbare squad & no cash to buy replacements.
btw only Chelsea have any hope in CL cos solid defense.
Crowds? But that would make NASCAR racing a much bigger sport than football, and Newcastle United the second biggest team in England... :confused:
I suppose, but would you be claiming that United weren't one of the biggest clubs throughtout the 70's and 80's even when they couldn't win the league? It's all relative I suppose - gate money was a far higher proportion of income for clubs back then. Even now it's a significant amount (Liverpool and Arsenal justifying the new stadium in terms of increased revenue).
btw Isn't Cork's rationale for claiming to be the biggest club in Ireland gates? ;)
btw Isn't Cork's rationale for claiming to be the biggest club in Ireland gates? ;)
way to split my two main "debates" here..... :D
jockser
27/01/2005, 12:35 PM
Even when we didn't win trophies, we were still the biggest club.
United weren't one of the biggest clubs throughtout the 70's and 80's even when they couldn't win the league?
:D :D :D
Karlos
27/01/2005, 12:45 PM
I mean, they were the best, now they're second best, along with Arsenal. .
someone being listening to Sir Alex recently! ;)
I'd love to know how Man Utd are all of a sudden the second best team in England. No championship in two calender years (p.s. they were THIRD last year!), earlier knock out in Europe last season than both Arsenal & Chelsea and behind both in the league this time around??? What planet does Fergie live on and what criteria does he use to suggest they are the second best! Makes me laugh all the same, great manager but a complete fool at times.
Sure they may finish second or win a european cup this year (quite possible) but to suggest their the second best team in english football at present based on the last season and a half of football is laughable! Not knocking the team and anyones a fool to write them off but when you look at the reality of the situation the superiority complex their manager shows at times is gas. I'm sure it was another of his 'mind games' and he is more wise than that but makes you wonder at times if he actually does believe their own media hype just like some Arsenals fans did after last year. Utd are a great club with a great manager & players and I'll always stand by that - it's just 'great' doesn't always have to mean 'best' or '2nd best' and it would be nice to not have to listen to this BS all the time!
The Hype in English football is getting way out of hand - the same journo muppets backing Chelsea now where backing Arsenal to win everything in October and Utd to come back and do the bisness in December! Wouldn't it be refreshing for a journo to stick his neck on the line early with one team and say yeah i got it wrong, really thought they'd win it but the other team proved me wrong, fair play, they're not the best team after all.
Karlos
27/01/2005, 12:48 PM
I'm sure it was. Up there with charging £60k for the Munich testimonial.
Is a ManU fan who shouts 'frog' at Wenger, Vieira, Pires, Henry etc. etc. as racist as Matthew Symonds? Do many of them get banned?
not to mention the sickening 'sit down you paedophile' chants directed at Wenger continously now for 6 years by large sections of the OT crowd. Not saying Arsenal fans are saints, far from it, but this has been audible on tv every season and nothing been done about it.
No no, just that crowds shouldn't be the single defining factor. ManU were one of the biggest clubs in the 70s and 80s because they patently...were
I agree, but some people need proof, and that's the best tangible I can think off of the top of my head.
tiktok
27/01/2005, 12:52 PM
Manchester United have too many weaknesses - "unsuitable keepers", ageing players who not motivated to win again (Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Neville) & crap backup players. They need fresh manager & clearout half the 1st team players.
I'm a United fan, and agree completely Pete. Only thing is that it should have happened at the end of Ferguson's will he step down/won't he season.
:D :D :D
Lock the thread, the smillies have it.
Mind you jockser's arguement makes more sense than Karlos....
razor
27/01/2005, 12:55 PM
Well by that rationale Cork City are by far the biggest club in Ireland.
hooraay (http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attncontent.htm)
Karlos
27/01/2005, 12:56 PM
Lock the thread, the smillies have it.
Mind you jockser's arguement makes more sense than Karlos....
sure they do mate, I'd expect shiny bright faces to make more sence than cold hard facts for ya :D
nice to know you condone the labelling of someone as a paedophile too, your colours shine bright! :)
sure they do mate, I'd expect shiny bright faces to make more sence than cold hard facts for ya :D
Sure just edit history and facts to suit you own arguement, it's the only way. A point makes you a far better team at this stage of the season, obviously...
Karlos
27/01/2005, 1:03 PM
Sure just edit history and facts to suit you own arguement, it's the only way. A point makes you a far better team at this stage of the season, obviously...
did i say 'FAR' better??? I didn't realise that you mancs judged your present greatness not on league positions or recent history in domestic and european competitions but in fact on something more high brow than both those meaningless things. I'm really interested mate, tell me more! :D
dr_peepee
27/01/2005, 7:12 PM
People have been predicting fergies demis for years, so eventually someone is going to be right. But he seems to recover from every blip, admittedly this paticular blip is running a bit longer than previous one. But I expect Utd to finnish second this year and I think Fergie himself has privately set that as the target knowing that Chelsea have the league all but rapped up.
How things fair out in the summer will tell us all we need to know about Fergies future. The comings and goings this summer will tell it all regarding what the board feel. You're not going to win anything with an aging midfield consolidated with some bargain basement purchases.
How much do you reckon Steven Gerrard would cost???
4tothefloor
27/01/2005, 10:23 PM
I agree, I think Utd have had it. Just a few observations.
1. Uniteds best players are still Keane, Giggs & Scholes, with Neville not too far behind. Without these players Utd are basically crap. Considering that all of these are in their 30's and coming to the end of their careers, Utd are currently paddling towards Sh*t creek, and will be stuck there in a few years time. Just like Liverpool all those years ago. It's just the way things go, but it's great to see that Utd are doing exactly what Liverpool did - bringing in inferior youngsters and replacements, and not replacing like with like, quality with quality. So much for being 'the biggest club in the world' (self styled, might I add) :rolleyes: Utd's continuing over reliance on the above mentioned players is going to bite them in the arse in a few years. They should be replacing them now, but they're not, thank god. Fergies lost it :p
2. Anyone who thinks Jose Mourinho is going to go to Man U after Fergie retires is delusional. Mourinho will win all their is to win with Chelsea, including the CL probably, within 2 - 3 yrs. As soon as he wins what he wants to win, he'll do what he did to Porto and take off, and out of the premiership. His big ambition is to manage Barcelona successfully, then to Italy. He has said this many times before.
Junior
28/01/2005, 8:08 AM
Hate Chelski-Sc*m;Munichs past it......RMK gave away Lampard's goal.....sloppy marking... :rolleyes: ......he can do it in an odd game......the SDLP have more 'continuity',than him,FFS!Let's hope he can 'con' us to 2006......he'll do F.A. after
Im fairly confident after deciphering a significant number of your posts on here that you have a large disliking for RMK (correct? :D )
However, did you see the recent Man U v Liverpool game when RMK was matched against "Englands Number One" central midfielder - the man whose ****e smells of roses, enter Steven Gerard.
Keane put on a master display and had SG in his pocket for the entire game. I agree he can't do it every game, hence why he is rested so often but I am more than happy to have him steer us to the WC finals - please god.
As for the goal on Weds - Keane was tracking back, Lampard ghosted in 'behind' him, however from memory Sylvestre / Ferdinand had Lampard in full view but did not step up to mark him (probably joint blame IMO)
Although he has been quiet of late re :RMK.
You wouldn't need to be posting here for too long or be a scientist of the rocket variety to figure out dav's stance on Roy.
Heres hoping we get to Germany, by which ever manner possible, I don't care.
dav seems to be a tad more acidic in any of his postings that may occur in the early hours, especially of Friday morning.
RMK ain't the player he was but he's still capable of doing the business imo.
I just wish he'd leave off the masterful displays for Manure and hold on to them for the International games.(Competetive of course. ;) )
1. Uniteds best players are still Keane, Giggs & Scholes, with Neville not too far behind. Without these players Utd are basically crap. Considering that all of these are in their 30's and coming to the end of their careers, Utd are currently paddling towards Sh*t creek, and will be stuck there in a few years time. Just like Liverpool all those years ago. It's just the way things go, but it's great to see that Utd are doing exactly what Liverpool did - bringing in inferior youngsters and replacements, and not replacing like with like, quality with quality. So much for being 'the biggest club in the world' (self styled, might I add) :rolleyes: Utd's continuing over reliance on the above mentioned players is going to bite them in the arse in a few years. They should be replacing them now, but they're not, thank god. Fergies lost it :p
I would agree with most of that, however, replace Keane and Scholes with whom? That's the biggest problem. Keane dominating Gerrard shows he isn't the answer, even if United could get him. The first team is strong enough, and certainly young enough in general - Keane the main exception, but even then has shown he can still do it. United's biggest problem is the squad, particularly midfield. Kleberson, 2 Djemba's, Miller aren't good enough. Fletcher is still doubtful but still young and does show potential.
To say he has lost the transfer plot is to ignore the likes of Ronaldo and Beanz who are quality players who he saw something that others didn't, and also Rooney (who may have cost over the odds, but who he secured - a problem in Kenyons CEO rein particularly towards the end :rolleyes: ). And Smith has turned out to be a good signing despite reservations of most United fans, let alone others.
Ultimately, Fergie is a victim of his own success with bringing through such a good batch of young players. So many from the same youth team making it and then obviously reaching their peak at the same time.
btw don't get blinded by Giggs form at the moment - it's the same everytime his contracts up for negogiation. :rolleyes:
Eire06
28/01/2005, 9:50 AM
There is the theory that Chelsea is doin a Blackburn Rovers...
And where are they now I ask you.....
gustavo
28/01/2005, 9:54 AM
people say that the standard has been upped by chelsea since they got mourinho and got rid of ranieri but thats probably more to do with the fact that ranieri didnt have carvalho , ferraira , tiago , robben drogba and did have gronkjaer melchiot mutu etc.
......
got this on email - sorta all above
The demise of Manchester United as a potent force in English
football
has led to a strange phenomenon known as Manc logic. Manc logic
can best
be described as the opposite of conventional logic. It exists
largely
because United fans are desperately trying to convince themselves
that
the glory days are not over. In order to do this it is necessary
to
suspend the rules of conventional logic. There are three major
aspects
to Manc logic. They are; 1. The Historical Aspect. 2. The
Contradictory
Aspect. 3. The Numerical Aspect. They work as follows:
1. The Historical Aspect of Manc Logic: Manchester United fans
will
ALWAYS refer to ancient history in order to make a point. They
rarely,
if ever, utter a sentence without using the word 'treble'. They
will
always speak of 1999 as if it was yesterday. They will also speak
of
1968 as if it was last week. Under Manc logic it is possible to
say that
Manchester United are CURRENTLY the best team in the world
because of
the achievements of George Best and Peter Schmeichel.
Typical Statement: We are the best team in England NOW because we
won
the Champions League in 1999.
2. The Contradictory Aspect of Manc Logic: Under the rules of
Manc Logic
it is impossible to contradict oneself. Therefore, fans of
Manchester
United will look upon the result of individual matches as proof
of their
superiority over other clubs when it suits them but will regard
league
position as the deciding factor on others. Thus it is possible
for them
to make the following statements:
(a) Portsmouth beat us in a one-off match but we are superior to
them
because we are higher than them in the league
(b) Arsenal are higher than us in the league but we are superior
to them
because we beat them in a one-off match
(c) Chelsea are higher than us in the league AND they beat us in
a
one-off match but we are superior to them because we won the
Champions
League in 1999.
3. The Numerical Aspect of Manc Logic: In order to convince
themselves
that Manchester United is the 'World's Greatest Football Club' it
is
necessary to suspend the normal rules of arithmetic. Under Manc
Logic
the following statements are perfectly acceptable.
(a) We have won the European Cup twice which makes us superior to
Real
Madrid who have only won it nine times.
(b) We are also superior to AC Milan who have only won it six
times,
Liverpool, Bayern Munich and Ajax who have only won it four times
and
Inter Milan, Benfica and Nottingham Forest who have only won it
twice.
people say that the standard has been upped by chelsea since they got mourinho and got rid of ranieri but thats probably more to do with the fact that ranieri didnt have carvalho , ferraira , tiago , robben drogba and did have gronkjaer melchiot mutu etc.
......or the fact that if ranieri had all them he'd pick a different team every week - murinho has stuck by a settled line up by and large and has done away with the houllier/ranieri nonsense of "resting players" and the idea of "minor competitions" - he goes out to pick his best side every time
shame ferugusoon cant do likewise, the mug
Manc logic.
I thought only siddy fans came from Manchester....
how would I know - my knowledge of manchester comes from the RTE 2 documentary on Mancunian life called "Burn It"
educational.....
jockser
28/01/2005, 11:12 AM
I thought only siddy fans came from Manchester....
true
but the manyoo lot are still known as mancs or scum :D :D :D
Junior
28/01/2005, 11:16 AM
how would I know - my knowledge of manchester comes from the RTE 2 documentary on Mancunian life called "Burn It"
educational.....
quality programme by the way. Manchesters equiavalent of desperate housewives?
only andy grimshaw and the suicidal bloke are really (stands to reason - id be suicidal if i followed man city)
the others are too busy groovin to really hip tunes la
4tothefloor
28/01/2005, 5:28 PM
To say he has lost the transfer plot is to ignore the likes of Ronaldo and Beanz who are quality players who he saw something that others didn't....
I'm sorry, but Ronaldo is sh*t. He's useless. He's full of tricks and shapes, but how many times does he actually do something productive with the ball? His crossing is worse than El Hadji Dioufs, which is some achievement. His crosses rarely get past the first defender, and rarely find their target. His team mates find it impossible to predict what he is going to do with the ball, thus there is poor understanding between them. As average as David Beckham is, he was a hell lot more productive than the imposter will ever be. Van Horseface must be crying into his oates every morning!
Running at high speed while doing 10 step overs is not my idead of 'class'. Have you ever noticed that he actually rarely gets by a defender with the step-overs? They're completely unnecessary most of the time. Completely over-rated. The real Ronaldo is Brazilian, plays for Madrid and actually makes a difference when in the last third of the pitch. And before anyone says 'He's only 19, he's going to be class', thats a load of crap. Wingers are at their best in the early stages of their career. Robben is only 20, now he's class. Duff is class. Shaun W Phillips is class. Ronaldo? He'll make a great actor one day.... :rolleyes:
4tothefloor
01/02/2005, 8:59 PM
Some win for Utd tonight. Not a shimmy in sight from Ronaldo :eek: Maybe he's saving it all for Lansdowne! Some goal for John O'Shea thats 2 smashing strikes in a week now. Midfield from now on?
I still think Ronaldo is over rated and Utd are finished BTW :D
thecorner
01/02/2005, 9:17 PM
2-4 vs arsenal
yes it is definitly the end of ferguson :rolleyes:
Plastic Paddy
01/02/2005, 9:36 PM
2-4 vs arsenal
yes it is definitly the end of ferguson :rolleyes:
To paraphrase a well-known saying, one game does not a season make.
It's hard to see how either ManUre or Arsenal will keep pace with Chelsea's bottomless pit of money in the next few years. By the time they recover, old whiskey chops will have gone. Unless, that is, he extends his contract for evermore... :D
:D PP
Closed Account 2
01/02/2005, 10:50 PM
2-4 vs arsenal
yes it is definitly the end of ferguson :rolleyes:
Probably is, theyve not a hope of catching Chelsea (form wise theyre worse than last year (http://stats.premierleague.com/images/graph/posgraph_2004_12.jpeg) theyve not been able to put away the likes of Spurs, City and Everton at home whereas in their prime they'd have done that. When they play a quality well organised team in Europe they'll come unstuck (as they have for the past 5 years).
harry crumb
01/02/2005, 11:49 PM
Fair play to Manchester, they are on an amazing run at the moment. They are really putting it up to the Chelsea team.
I saw the highlights and Manchester were very good against Arsenal and on that form they will give Chelsea a few scares.
Paddy Power might have a few sleepless nights.
gustavo
02/02/2005, 10:16 AM
Van Horseface must be crying into his oates every morning!
:
ill nominate that line alone for post of the month! :D
Fair play to man Utd last night. They really showed who wanted it more. Once they equalised, Arsenal just collapsed completely.
That said, I reckon any team who depend on Sol Campbell at the back, and have title aspirations, are sadly misguided. he was useless last night. As was Vieira. Keane must have really rattled him in the tuneel, as Ive never seen him give so much ball away.
Ryan Giggs? I can never understand the criticism he gets from people. The guy is a top top class player, and will terrorize defences for another few seasons yet.
Of course Sky were saying last night that the winners "have the right to challenge for the title, the losers' season is over". Excuse me if im wrong, but there is still only 1 point between Utd and Arsenal, and both are a country mile behind Chelsea. 2nd place is still up for grabs between the two of them, last night didnt make too big a difference.
Karlos
02/02/2005, 12:44 PM
That said, I reckon any team who depend on Sol Campbell at the back, and have title aspirations, are sadly misguided.
Of course Sky were saying last night that the winners "have the right to challenge for the title, the losers' season is over". Excuse me if im wrong, but there is still only 1 point between Utd and Arsenal, and both are a country mile behind Chelsea. 2nd place is still up for grabs between the two of them, last night didnt make too big a difference.
don't agree that the losers season is over as SKY were suggesting last night. I do believe UTD are in a healthier position to challenge now though on the back of the lift the result will give them. However there are close to 40 points left to play for and with 2 between UTD and ARSENAL either are far from guaranteed 2nd place on the basis of last night.
Will disagree with you on Sol. The Team depended on Sol last year and finished with the best defensive record in the league on the way to an unbeaten league campaign. Think it's very harsh to suggest they are misguided to think they can win with Sol Campbell having him being a major part in 2 league championships and 2 fa cups in 3 years with the club! The facts don't back that up. However, he did have a particulary poor game last night.
Closed Account 2
02/02/2005, 2:26 PM
Each teams run ins are:-
Chelsea
--------
Blackburn Rovers Away
Manchester City Home
Everton Away
West Brom Home*
Norwich City Away
Crystal Palace Home
Southampton Away
Birmingham City Home
Manchester United Away
Arsenal Home
Fulham Home
Bolton Wanderers Away
Charlton Athletic Home
Newcastle United Away
* (Fixture clash/League Cup)
Manchester United
------------------
Birmingham Home
Man City Away
Portsmouth Home
C. Palace Away
Fulham Home
Blackburn Home
Norwich Away
Chelsea Home
Everton Away
Newcastle Home
Charlton Away
West Brom Home
S'hampton Away
Arsenal FC
----------
Aston Villa Away
C. Palace Home
Southampton Away
Portsmouth Home
Blackburn Away
Norwich Home
Boro Away
Chelsea Away
Spurs Home
WBA Away
Liverpool Home
Birmingham Away
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